RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (Full Version)

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lmwal931 -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (5/30/2008 11:17:12 PM)

in the old testament there is much symbolism. i had a vision that showed me a purgatory type situation. JESUS said that it was the FATHER'S will that none be lost. i just know that GOD'S love is eternal. also there are 2 things i do that you have to be careful with. a interpretation of scripture should fit the picture. a verse draws a picture. e.g. in john 1 JESUS says i saw you under the fig tree. JESUS could be talking about a literal fig tree or a symbolic fig tree. the disciples response did not fit the picture for a literal fig tree. the symbolism of the fig tree is life. we were all born under the fig tree. my essays are more explainatory but i can't even then satisfy every critic. i hope my observations get you to think for yourself. GOD is the author of logic and science.




MrFribbles -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (5/31/2008 1:41:26 AM)

quote:

i had a vision that showed me a purgatory type situation


OK, see, when anyone bases their beliefs on something as subjective as a vision, I have to become suspect. This is especially true when that vision seems to contradict Scripture, and nothing in Scripture even hints at purgatory to me. Hell is spoken of as being an eternal place, just as heaven is. Any vision that contradicts Scripture is a false vision.

quote:

i just know that GOD'S love is eternal


And so is God's wrath. We cannot, indeed must not, pick and choose which parts of God we like, and throw the rest by the wayside. To even attempt such is a grave error indeed.

quote:

in john 1 JESUS says i saw you under the fig tree. JESUS could be talking about a literal fig tree or a symbolic fig tree. the disciples response did not fit the picture for a literal fig tree.


I think his response most certainly does. Nathanael was most likely sitting under a literal fig tree when Philip approached him, so when Jesus told him about where he had been sitting without any simple human way of knowing, it showed Nathanael that Jesus had exercised the divine power of knowledge.

quote:

the symbolism of the fig tree is life. we were all born under the fig tree.


See, in my mind, this completely destroys the power of Christ's miraculous declaration to Nathanael. If everyone is "born under a fig tree," then Jesus is not saying anything special at all - He is just using an easy word-play. How would such a word-play inspire Nathanael to declare that Jesus is the Son of God and King of Israel? To me, that makes no sense.

quote:

GOD is the author of logic and science.


Now that, I agree with. Not sure how it fits in with the rest of your post, but hey, I agree with it.




ta_mosquito -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (5/31/2008 10:25:51 AM)

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lmwal931 -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (6/1/2008 11:20:14 PM)

nathanael knew that nobody saw him as he was born. i.e. nobody but GOD. that's why he said "you are the SON of GOD.




MrFribbles -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (6/1/2008 11:41:15 PM)

quote:

nathanael knew that nobody saw him as he was born. i.e. nobody but GOD. that's why he said "you are the SON of GOD.


Well, God, and the midwife, and his mother, and anyone else there to help with the birth. And again, everyone is born. I fail to see any sort of miracle with your interpretation.

But regardless - purgatory, universal salvation, hell, etc., does not impact whether or not the devil is really evil or not. Hell is not Satan's domain - the earth is, until Christ's return. Satan fears hell just as much (if not more so) as we do, because he probably has a better idea of what hell will be like than we do.
That's always been something I've wondered about. Satan is obviously familiar with Scripture, and he should know that God will accomplish His purposes - so why does he bother continuing to try and thwart God's plans? Is he merely trying to cause as much trouble as possible, and steal as much glory for himself, or does he really believe he has something up his sleeve that will catch God off guard? Either way, his plans and his actions clearly demonstrate that he is the most singularly evil being in creation.




bob97 -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (6/1/2008 11:57:01 PM)

quote:

so why does he bother continuing to try and thwart God's plans?


I guess a guy's just gotta give it his best shot but I don't like his odds. [;)]

Bob




lmwal931 -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (7/12/2008 11:12:44 PM)

JESUS told the thieves on the cross that they would be in paradise. note he didn't say heaven. paradise and purgatory are apparently the same. from now on i'll use paradise in explaining this vision. also supporting this idea of paradise is that bible states "GOD'S will is that none be lost". paradise is a 2nd chance.




19ramman85 -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (7/12/2008 11:40:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

ORIGINAL:Ps103
quote:

Where on earth did you get this stuff?

My guess would either be Satan or the history channel.



As a fan of the History Channel ........ I sure hope you were j/k!

Because I rather RESENT that accusation that somehow The History Channel promotes Satan! [:@][:@][:@]

Yes- granted, they have had some religious history programs on there that make most Christians laugh (meself included), but nonetheless - they come nowhere - near, the insinuations/conjectors of the OP !


-charles




19ramman85 -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (7/12/2008 11:50:13 PM)

Paradise = Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham

Purgatory = God not sure if you are good enough for Heaven or bad enough for Hell. But maybe if your family/friends/neighbors/Church pray and give xtra money- maybe ........

Gehanna (sp), or Hell - The rich man

These are, from what I have been lead to believe by BOTH Catholicism, and Free methodist teaching.

And yes- Satan rules the earth (or, at least God lets him think that anyways!, lol)


-charles




mcleod -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (7/16/2008 4:28:58 PM)

This story I have got to tell about and it is true. My Great Grandmother was a devoted Republican and very much into politics, when see was alive. In fact was the head person of the Republican party for Marshall County in Indiana. In the fifties and sixties she held this post. Well to the story she would almost everyday go into a restruant called the Candy Kitchen in Argos, IN.. The owner of the place was a devoted Democrat and as bad as my Great Grandmother was Republican. So- after a great debate one day the owner asked my Great Grandmother this question." If satan ran on the Repulican party ticket for President of the United States would you vote for him". She thought for a moment then said "well there is little good in everybody". Which she was also devoted Assemble of God person. But I believe satan has no good plans for those who follow God.




LJC_Grace -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (7/30/2008 10:54:07 PM)

Rasul,

As a dead child do you think one night research is enough for you to know about the true living God and accuse Him of ¡¥ordering¡¦ angels to bow down to man (human beings)? If you are the child of the living God, you don¡¦t need a night to research about satan but 1 minute should suffice. Rasul, try to reach the sky! Raise your hand and try to touch it! Can you touch it? You can¡¦t even imagine of raising up your hands to touch the sky, isn¡¦t it? The Creator of heaven and earth used His immeasurable Wisdom, Knowledge and understanding to create them. The One and only God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob (His name) stretched out the SKY USING HIS UNDERSTANDING. How did you dare accuse God of ¡¥ordering¡¦ angels to bow down before man?

You can¡¦t even imagine touching the sky, how on earth did you rely on the dead research to accuse God? Look around you and wake up! If God created satan ¡¥the angel of great beauty¡¦ IMAGINE HOW UNIMAGINABLY AND IMMEASURABLY BEAUTIFUL IS THE CREATOR? satan is the highest ranking angel but He is not God! Engrave that in your mind and heart! No being or creation of God is perfect in goodness. Only GOD THE ALMIGHTY IS GOOD. Please don¡¦t use the word perfect for satan.

Read a Christian bible not a catholic bible to learn the truth of God. King James Version New Century Version. A Christian is a follower of Christ who do not worship statues/idols which is a dust when destroyed. When you die, you return to dust. When idols/statutes in the catholic churches destroyed, they are only dust. A dust is following another dust¡¦s teaching for research. This is not condemnation Rasul but the depth of Wisdom.

In the bible from Genesis to Revelation there is no scripture says God ordered angels to bow before man. God DID NOT ORDER ANGELS TO BOW BEFORE MAN! BUT satan REFUSED TO BOW BEFORE GOD because he wanted to be greater than God. None of us will ever bow before angels, animals, statues/idols, any being in heaven, on earth or under the earth nor angels of God will ever bow before man, animals, statues/idols, any being in heaven, on earth or under the earth.

The Son of God, Lord Jesus Christ Himself in everything did not think that being equal with God was something to be used for His own benefit. But He gave up His place with God and made himself nothing. He was born as a man and became like a servant. And when He was living as a man He humbled Himself and was fully obedient to God, even when that caused His death-death on a cross. So God raised Him to the Highest place. God made His name greater than every other name. So that EVERY KNEE WILL BOW TO THE NAME OF JESUS. Everyone and everything in heaven, on earth and under the earth. And everyone will confess that Lord Jesus Christ is Lord and bring glory to God the Father. Phillipian 2:6-11

God loves you and us so much Rasul. Use your simple common sense. Use God given wisdom. I forgot you are still dead. Unless you are born-again, you will not have common sense to the truth nor wisdom to differentiate the good fruit and the bad fruit. Come to Lord Jesus and be baptized in the name of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You shall be born-again to see the truth of life.

Honestly look at yourself now, if satan has blinded you from simple understanding of all of the above that I have written, can you imagine how Adam & Eve was deceived by the snake (satan) to eat the fruit that was prevented by God. The first sin of man was caused by satan. The rest of the children of Abraham came after Adam & Eve. The fallen of man was caused by satan. The fallen of satan was caused by his own greediness and pride to be greater than God.

„X The first sin of man was caused by satan
„X The fallen of man was caused by satan
„X The fallen of satan was caused by satan himself
„X The weeds in God¡¦s children were planted by satan to cause them to sin

As you mentioned in your forum, ¡¥the sewage called humanity¡¦ condemning Abraham¡¦s children is not wise at all. After the fall of Adam & Eve, God¡¦s children inherited the weeds that was planted by the devil. Only at the end of the age (harvest time) will the weeds be pulled up and burned in the fire. Sins of the world that were committed by God¡¦s children are caused by the weeds planted in them by the devil/satan.

Do you still want to ask ¡¥What did Lucifer do wrong or is Lucifer really evil? satan wants to be god.

Define satan: money, power, sex, snake, beauty, idol, fame, flesh, nakedness, pain, suffering, etc¡K is satan. Would you like me to elaborate more of how he is causing God¡¦s children blindness to sin? Pornography, children¡¦s sexual abuse, children out of wedlock, killing, worshipping satan, man-made statues, animals, sun, moon, the dead, practicing witchcraft, cursing God, condemning God, judging God, selling flesh,¡Kso much more¡Ka website won¡¦t be enough Rasul.

Don¡¦t concentrate on evil. Don¡¦t research on satan who wants to be god to rule you and the world. You don¡¦t need research to know about satan. Open your eyes, ears, mind and understanding, the evil is all around you. Concentrate on God, only God is good. He will give you all the Wisdom, knowledge and understanding. You need unceasing prayer to find the truth. Search for Him with all your heart and you will find Him. He is the truth and life. He is Lord Jesus Christ.




ta_mosquito -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (7/30/2008 11:03:12 PM)

Welcome, LJC_Grace! Good post. I have one little problem:

quote:

Define satan: money, power, sex, snake, beauty, idol, fame, flesh, nakedness, pain, suffering, etc¡K is satan.


I assume you do NOT mean that sex within marriage is sinful/satan, nor beauty (since God made things beautiful) but the perversion and idolization of beauty. [;)]




DaveW -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (8/1/2008 1:03:11 PM)

Wow this is a hard thread to follow. (either that or I am even more tired than I think I am)

I had a comment for the OP but it has taken so many turns that it seems somewhat OT at this point.




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