Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (Full Version)

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Giulia -> Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/11/2008 8:02:06 AM)

I hear of all sorts of strange references. I associate her with an outcast. Even to the diciples she was an outcast, they stopped by the well and were not very happy with Jesus speaking to her (and i am assuming it was her at the well). People romanticise her and talk about the oil she poured on His feet and the many men she once had but now doesn't have.

I think she was an outcast and a loner. even after her new birth and gift of oil to and on Him, I think she was still ostracised by the disciples. They were relatively straight compared to her and classed her as a bit of a lowy even after she renounced the world.

I think there are still women experiencing this today>

Perhaps this should've been on "faithwalk" only I am not necessarily "protestant" (does that mean you protest something?).



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/11/2008 10:13:01 AM)

Actually there are only two passages in scripture that directly give any evidence of Mary Magdalene's history pre Jesus.

(Mark 16:9) Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

(Luke 8:2) and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,

To be possessed was, by our Lord and the disciples looked upon as diseased, the victim of an alien and evil power, not an accomplice of it.

In the New Testament those whose sins were named were carefully not, themselves, named.

At the same time having stated that she had seven demons would indicate an exceptionally strong and nasty "infestation", either involving multiple relapses (a la Luke 11:26), or (as with Mark 5:9) that the mode of her possession indicated multiple demons.

In either case she would have been seen by Jesus and his followers as a healed invalid, not a rescued social derelict, no matter what actions the demon possession had caused her to preform.

The woman at the well was a Samaritan (John 4) , and Magdalene wasn't Mary's surname (few if any people of that era had one of those) but rather an indication of the city she was from, Magdala, a town in Galilee. It was on the west shore of the the sea of Galilee, not in Sumeria.

As to the Mary with the oil:

It was the Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. (John 11:2)

That Mary lived in Bethany with her Brother Lazarus and her sister Martha.

There was another woman (unnamed) who washed Jesus' feet with her tears and dried them with her hair (Luke 7:36-50) , but that woman had her sins forgiven by Jesus...with no indication of her having been demon possessed then or ever.

She is also listed with several other women in Luke 8:1 as "...women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities—Mary called Magdalene, out of whom had come seven demons, and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Him from their substance." (Luke 8:1-3)

What ever her sins (and we are all sinners in need of a Saviour) they are not listed for us in the scriptures, nor is there any indication that the Disciples looked upon her with scorn.

Tim



DustyLady -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/11/2008 8:31:10 PM)

Well said, Tim. You just said everything that I was going to.

Dusty



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/12/2008 1:25:33 AM)

quote:

Perhaps this should've been on "faithwalk" only I am not necessarily "protestant" (does that mean you protest something?).


A Protestant, in the context of this forum (and generally) means that the person is a Christian, but not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

The term is derived from the fact that during the Reformation certain excesses within the Roman Catholic Church were being protested, which is what lead to the schism between the Protestants and the Roman Catholics.

There are several broad general sub groupings with in the realm of Protestant, but they aren't (as long as a good degree of orthodoxy is present) important here. At least as I read the FAQ.

Tim



Giulia -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/12/2008 8:29:09 AM)

quote:

In either case she would have been seen by Jesus and his followers as a healed invalid, not a rescued social derelict, no matter what actions the demon possession had caused her to preform.


Is that how they see people who have been healed or rescued from their past these days? Either a social derelict or a healed invalid? Does that stereotyping ever cease to exist from the "good" people?

quote:

What ever her sins (and we are all sinners in need of a Saviour) they are not listed for us in the scriptures, nor is there any indication that the Disciples looked upon her with scorn.


She was looked upon with scorn when Jesus was at the well. Even when she was annointing Jesus (I think she is the same person even though it does not specifically say this).

quote:

A Protestant, in the context of this forum (and generally) means that the person is a Christian, but not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.


I don't discriminate between any of these, all are wrong and all are also right. The way I see it.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/12/2008 11:20:35 AM)

quote:


She was looked upon with scorn when Jesus was at the well. Even when she was annointing Jesus (I think she is the same person even though it does not specifically say this).


It doesn't specifically say that the woman at the well was looked upon with scorn in the scriptures relating the story all it says regarding the disciples and her was:
And at this point His disciples came, and they marveled that He talked with a woman; yet no one said, "What do You seek?" or, "Why are You talking with her?" (John 4:27)

And possibly Therefore the disciples said to one another, "Has anyone brought Him anything to eat?"
(John 4:33)

She might have been looked upon with scorn because she was a Samaritan, there were HUGE cultural and religious conflict between the Jews and the Samaritans, indeed, Jews going from Judea to Galilee traditionally went AROUND Samaria to avoid being "contaminated" by contact by contact with Samaritans. But the scriptures say that Jesus MUST go through Samaria..implying He went through specifically to meet up with her for her Salvation, and that of her village.

She was looked upon with scorn by those in her village because of her lifestyle, but after she encountered Jesus and told/led the the people in that village to Jesus, it looks like they accepted her.

Scripture doesn't say that Mary Magdalene was the woman at the well because she could not possibly be. The woman at the well was a SAMARITAN, from the city of Sychar in the land of SAMARIA (it says so in John 4:5).

Mary Magdalen was (from the evidence of her name) from Magdala a city about 5 miles from Capernaum (where Jesus centered His ministry in Galilee) and about 15 miles from Nazareth (where He grew up), and why He is sometimes referred to as Jesus of Nazareth, or as a Nazarene (see Matthew 3:23).

Magdala is about 60 miles from Sychar, in a different country, one that didn't get along with Jews (which would include Jesus, the disciples and Mary Magdalene) there is no way that the two women can be the same person regardless of what you would like to think.

The Mary that anointed Jesus is identified by name in John 11:2, she was from Bethany NOT Magdalen, so if she would have been Mary of Bethany (since Bethanene wouldn't be a proper Hebrew grammatical structure.)...NOT the same person.

It is one thing to believe that two references refer to the same person IF there is no evidence to the contrary, but in this case there is direct, plane and incontrovertible evidence that it is not the case.

Where a belief runs directly contrary to clearly stated scripture, it is the belief that must be changed to conform with scripture, not scripture to conform with belief.

Tim



rcjames -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/12/2008 12:47:35 PM)

Well I have heard a lot of theories in my life, but that Mary Magdalene was the the woman at the well is a new one for me.

I can find no Scriptural evidence to support the theory.

If someone knows of some; please post it.

Thsnks
RC



Anisavta -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/12/2008 3:00:36 PM)

There is no reference because as BA in post #6 says:

quote:

Scripture doesn't say that Mary Magdalene was the woman at the well because she could not possibly be. The woman at the well was a SAMARITAN, from the city of Sychar in the land of SAMARIA (it says so in John 4:5).

Mary Magdalen was (from the evidence of her name) from Magdala a city about 5 miles from Capernaum (where Jesus centered His ministry in Galilee) and about 15 miles from Nazareth (where He grew up), and why He is sometimes referred to as Jesus of Nazareth, or as a Nazarene (see Matthew 3:23).

Magdala is about 60 miles from Sychar, in a different country, one that didn't get along with Jews (which would include Jesus, the disciples and Mary Magdalene) there is no way that the two women can be the same person regardless of what you would like to think.


I have driven past Magdala and I have driven past Samaria and they are miles apart. Miriam of Magdala would not have begun to venture into Samaria nor would the Samarian woman been seen dead in Magdala - well maybe she would have been seen dead there...



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/12/2008 5:50:48 PM)

Who do I associate Mary Magdalene with?
Jesus. She was a follower of Jesus.

As stated in the other posts, there is nothing in the Bible that would indicate that the woman at the well was Mary Magdalene.

quote:

Original: Giulia

quote:

Original: BerianAardvark

In either case she would have been seen by Jesus and his followers as a healed invalid, not a rescued social derelict, no matter what actions the demon possession had caused her to preform.


Is that how they see people who have been healed or rescued from their past these days? Either a social derelict or a healed invalid? Does that stereotyping ever cease to exist from the "good" people?


Giulia, God's word says that there are no "good" people.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

I would say that anyone who looks down they're noses at someone else because of they're past, isn't showing the love of Christ. And they need to grow into a better understanding of how the Lord wants us to love each other.



Anisavta -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/12/2008 6:28:29 PM)

quote:

I think she was an outcast and a loner. even after her new birth and gift of oil to and on Him, I think she was still ostracised by the disciples. They were relatively straight compared to her and classed her as a bit of a lowy even after she renounced the world.


Not sure where you are getting your information but after searching the scriptures mentioning Mary M. I can't agree.
First of all the disciples were common men, fishermen, a zealot, a tax collector (who was considered the bottom of the food chain). You can't Westernize them. Yes she was considered also a "bottom feeder" before she met Yeshua but just as they accepted Matthew they would accept her. Over and over in scripture she is mentioned with the other women ministering to Yeshua in his travels - part of the group.



mark56 -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/13/2008 12:13:11 AM)

quote:

Yes she was considered also a "bottom feeder" before she met Yeshua "


There is no indication of this in the Scripture. The only reference to her past is in Luke 8:2 where it states that seven demons had come out of her. There is no mention of the effect those demons had. There is no mention of what anybody thought of her while she was possessed. For all we know she may have been kept inside and loved by her parents. We just don't know.



Anisavta -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/13/2008 12:37:17 AM)

I have been around those possessed by by demons sad to say and I have not met one yet who could keep it a secret and live a "normal" life. That is something that tends to manifest itself in self destructive behavior.
The time perod in 1st Century Israel was not an easy one and living in a small village as Magdala one would not be able to keep demon possession a secret. Actually even now in small villages in Israel it is a hard life.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/13/2008 1:22:13 AM)

quote:

s that how they see people who have been healed or rescued from their past these days? Either a social derelict or a healed invalid? Does that stereotyping ever cease to exist from the "good" people?


And you categorize/ stereotype them as healed and rescued from their past...same thing, some sort of label is needed to indicate their former condition, healed invalid or healed and rescued form their past..either way, she was not considered a social derelict, which WOULD have made her an object of scorn.

The point that was being made was that in the case of demon possession the person was not considered culpable (guilty) of the things that the demon possession made her do, so she would NOT have been scorned for being demon possessed.

Tim



Giulia -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/13/2008 7:35:49 AM)

quote:

The Mary that anointed Jesus is identified by name in John 11:2, she was from Bethany NOT Magdalen, so if she would have been Mary of Bethany (since Bethanene wouldn't be a proper Hebrew grammatical structure.)...NOT the same person.


Nevertheless she is the same archetype. The woman at the well, the woman they wanted to throw stones at and the woman Jesus cast demons out of seems to me the same archetype, perhaps it is a personal association which I draw on.

quote:

The point that was being made was that in the case of demon possession the person was not considered culpable (guilty) of the things that the demon possession made her do, so she would NOT have been scorned for being demon possessed.


Try and tell that to a court house[&:]! No way that would go down as a defence. All people judge and sometimes people make it hard for people to let the past go.

quote:

Giulia, God's word says that there are no "good" people.


I know this, however people ostracize others all the time because of the past experiences they have had. People won't relate to them and they will be judged.

People may not even mention it in church, but that person will not be chosen to be married (if she has a controversial past) even though people pretend they forget, often they don't.

quote:

First of all the disciples were common men, fishermen, a zealot, a tax collector (who was considered the bottom of the food chain). You can't Westernize them.


Again I think you can. I think these are archetypes otherwise why would they be used as examples? No one would be able to relate to them if they weren't.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/13/2008 9:59:17 AM)

quote:

Nevertheless she is the same archetype. The woman at the well, the woman they wanted to throw stones at and the woman Jesus cast demons out of seems to me the same archetype, perhaps it is a personal association which I draw on.


Yes, all of the women you mentioned are certainly people whose example you can draw upon. But there is absolutely no evidence that people were ready to stone any of them.

You Quoted me:

The point that was being made was that in the case of demon possession the person was not considered culpable (guilty) of the things that the demon possession made her do, so she would NOT have been scorned for being demon possessed.

and replied:

quote:

Try and tell that to a court house ! No way that would go down as a defence. All people judge and sometimes people make it hard for people to let the past go.


You are trying to make these first century followers of Christ into 21st century people you know. That will not work...they were who they were, in a culture far different than ours.

There are parallels, but their motives and thought patterns were those of a 1st century Jews, not of 21st century Australians (or Americans). The archetype does not transcend these differences, but their actions can still serve as a model because their actions were in response to Jesus Christ who (being God) does transcend time, cultures and space.


Up until this posting my primary concern has been the scriptural accuracy of what you had said. But now in light of the pain of what you are apparently going through (assumed from various comments you have made), so let me address that.

Pick a "personality" how many times have they been into and out of rehab...and how many people dismiss their past misdeeds as inconsequential because it was the drinking or the drugs (or some other reason than personal responsibility) that were the real cause.

But a common, non-celebrity type (especially someone in or wanting to be) in our own group gets a far harsher judgment.

The court of public opinion and a court of Law are two different critters...and the level of proof needed to convict if far different.

Yes, all people judge...and most judge by standards other than those laid down by Christ, including many who claim to be Christians...and Christ DID set up standards for how to judge.

As Christians our past sins are covered by the Blood of Christ (even our present and future sins are). Does that mean that all those who claim to be Christians will "automagically" forget/forgive our past? No. Many will, but some, maybe even most in some groups wont.

Some will wait and see, looking for a sign of change (some hoping to find it others hoping to find the opposite).

I, myself have a "controversial" past, as do many others I know, including several pastors.

One of them said during a sermon: "If you knew all about my past, you likely wouldn't be out there listening to me...but that is OK because if I knew yours, I probably wouldn't want to be here talking to you either."

The way I put it in my witness is "The old saying 'There but for the Grace of God go I', at least in my case needs to be rewritten..There, until God's Grace, I WAS." The details aren't important to most witnessing, and often get in the way of the real reason to witness, that I was a sinner (in my case a dope smoking womanizing hippy) and God's Grace and Forgiveness changed me.

The best advice I can give is keep living the changes that God's Grace and Love have made (and are continuing to make) within you. That well encourage those who are looking at you life hoping to see change, and bug the snot out of those biddies just waiting to pounce on the slightest mistake or backslide.

Live so that when one of those gossips tells a newcomer about your past they will be shocked, not by your past but by how much different that past is from the way you live your present.

That is the best "revenge" against the gossips, returning good (your current good example) for evil (what was, especially as it has been embroidered by those who wish you ill by their repetition of it).

Tim



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/13/2008 11:08:42 AM)

quote:

Original: Giulia

quote:

Giulia, God's word says that there are no "good" people.


I know this, however people ostracize others all the time because of the past experiences they have had. People won't relate to them and they will be judged.

People may not even mention it in church, but that person will not be chosen to be married (if she has a controversial past) even though people pretend they forget, often they don't.


Yes, your right. People do judge each other, and ostracize and hurt some because of they're past and for many other reasons. I wise we could change that, but we can't. Only the Lord can by working in they're hearts if they will let Him. And as BerianAardvark said, we're all guilty of judging sometimes.

But we shouldn't. We're to love each other. Not hurt each other. We need to try to look at each other through Jesus's eyes. With unconditional love.

Like BerianAardvark, I see hurt in your posts about this. (Forgive me if I'm wrong.) And what I want to tell you most is that you are a precious child of God. It doesn't matter what is in your past. Those that would judge you for your past are wrong, and will have to account for that some day. That will be between them and God. But please stand in the beauty and wonderment of the wonderful person you are, through our Lord, Jesus Christ.

I am praying for the Lord to heal these hurts. And may He guide you to a church family and friends that doesn't treat you in a hurtful way but will love and enbrace and cherish you. God Bless



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/13/2008 11:22:01 AM)

I just wanted to add that we need to forgive those that judge us and hurt us. The Lord will help us to forgive. And He blesses us with such peace and joy when we do.



Giulia -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/14/2008 5:49:39 AM)

quote:

Yes, all of the women you mentioned are certainly people whose example you can draw upon. But there is absolutely no evidence that people were ready to stone any of them.


Sorry got to ask which bible you're reading? Don't you recall the woman whom Jesus saved from getting stoned?

Yes I dwell on the misunderstanding of the people sometimes and wonder what exactly they believe in. This alienates me more and more but perhaps that is a little self indulgent?



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/14/2008 9:08:24 AM)

quote:

Original: Giulia

Don't you recall the woman whom Jesus saved from getting stoned?


I do. They were going to stone her for adultery. Jesus stopped them by saying, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone". Of course no one was without sin, so no one could cast the first stone.

I went back to the OP. I think the thing with the woman at the well was more about the fact that she was a samaritan (they being jews), not about her being a woman, or a sinful woman. (Jesus knew all about her past, but the deciples wouldn't have.)

In the OP, you say that you think the woman was an outcast and I'm thinking to the people in the town she lived in, she probably was. Married 5 times and now with a man who wasn't her husband.

You said you think there are still women experiencing this today.
So I'm trying to understand the point that you are making. (I think maybe we got off the point with who the woman was.)
Is it that women today are still judged and treated as outcast because of they're past? By those in church? Moreso than men?
Of course none of it shoud be, but as long as we're on this earth, there will be those who like to judge others. Like to think that they are better than the other person. It shouldn't be so, thats not the way we're to treat one another. But like a lot of bad things on this earth, I don't think it will ever totally be gone till the Lord comes again.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/14/2008 10:06:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

quote:

Yes, all of the women you mentioned are certainly people whose example you can draw upon. But there is absolutely no evidence that people were ready to stone any of them.


Sorry got to ask which bible you're reading? Don't you recall the woman whom Jesus saved from getting stoned?


The woman that they were about to stone is a different woman all together from any you mentioned before. That woman's story is found in John 8:2-11.

They were about to stone her in accordance with the law as it stood in that day and age, not from some sense of anger or outrage Except for the fact that they were trying to catch Jesus up in some sort of public scandal so that they could either accuse Him of speaking against the Law of Moses, which was (to them) the same thing as blasphemy (and so would give them an excuse to stone Jesus), there was no reason at all to present her before Jesus at all.

"They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground."
(John 8:6)

Had they been legitimately concerned about her adultery, they would have brought the man in as well; indeed there is no legal way they could accuse her with out having the man to accuse also...one does not commit adultery by ones self. If they had caught her (as the asserted) in the very act, they had also caught the man in the very act, and let him go.

So actually they had no real rage against her, they were using her as a pawn to either find a way to accuse Jesus of a capitol crime or make Him appear inconsistent in His teaching about forgiveness and Love (and so reduce His popularity with the people).


quote:

Yes I dwell on the misunderstanding of the people sometimes and wonder what exactly they believe in. This alienates me more and more but perhaps that is a little self indulgent?


I'm not sure about self indulgent, but I could make a very good case for it putting you in in danger of being in the very same boat as those whom you are judging in that manner.

At the very least it is being unloving towards those whose wrongs you are dwelling upon.

Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily. It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong]. It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail. Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening]. (1 Corinthians 13:4-7)

That particular citation is for the Amplified Bible, a translation that attempts to show the nuances that a native speaker of the language in that era (in the case of the New Testament, Greek) understood culturally, just as we understand the nuances of the English we speak. But in normal circumstance (since you asked about what Bible I was reading) I use the New American Standard Bible.

We are called upon to love even our enemies...which would include (according to the scripture cited above) placing their deeds and actions in the best possible light, rather than the worst. Now granted sometimes even the best possible light is not very good...but to dwell upon their wrongs is not loving at all, nor is it demonstrating forgiveness...another thing that we are called upon to do as Christians.

Tim



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/14/2008 1:07:49 PM)

By the way the ones who put the woman before Jesus saying she should be stoned were NOT His disciples, but the Scribes and Pharisees, the religious leaders who were later to bring the charges against Jesus and demand His crucifixion.

The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" (John 8:3-5)

I wish that I could say that the disciples never made a rash judgement regarding someone's death, but that is not true:

When the days were approaching for His ascension, He was determined to go to Jerusalem; and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him. But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem. When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?" But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."] And they went on to another village. (Luke 9:51-56)

The Disciples frequently "didn't get it" and were sometimes rebuked by Jesus whenever they did blow it even at the end of His ministry when He was on the way to the cross. But He didn't give up on them, nor are we to give up on people when they seem to have missed the boat even when their attitudes and actions have hurt us, just as Jesus forgave even those who were in the process of crucifying Him, we are to forgive.

Tim



Giulia -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/15/2008 8:21:07 AM)

quote:

You said you think there are still women experiencing this today.
So I'm trying to understand the point that you are making. (I think maybe we got off the point with who the woman was.)
Is it that women today are still judged and treated as outcast because of they're past? By those in church? Moreso than men?


Yes I think they are. Men get a good rap for sowing their wild oats. At best they get rebuked and then they have a laugh about it. Not so with women. It's always been like that. Yes there are many in the church who judge and some of those sit in there because they want somewhere to feel safe cause they have no guts to front the real world.

quote:

I'm not sure about self indulgent, but I could make a very good case for it putting you in in danger of being in the very same boat as those whom you are judging in that manner.


Like how? Lamenting for being held at arms length is not too harsh. In fact sometimes I outright rebuke in anger and that is what Jesus did. Seeing I follow Him I also do what He does and have the same feelings He had as well.

I have no patience for the hypocrites in the church and I am saddened that I go to my home and find only strangers. The name of Christ gets balsphemed because of all the hypocrites in the church and many stay away because the fellowship is not that of the righteous.

I was a spiritual gypsy for a long time. Going from church to church trying to find a true brother or sister. When I did I found he was concerned more about a tithe or the notoriety of a person than a soul. (came out of his mouth in conversation as a joke which i didn't find too funny) This saddened me and I no longer go there even though I loved to worship with him.

This other church I'd like to go to is very concerned with status. Where you've come from and where you've been and who you know. They talk a lot of words from the bible but they don't know Christ even though some even preach. This is evident by their actions and their little familiarity with Jesus Himself. At some point I need to shake the dust off my feet. We are to judge even the angels and yes I know I will be judged by the measure I use.[:)]My measure is a fair one according to what I know by His Presence in me.

Women in the bible remained associated with what they were before they were converted as did the disciples. If that brings glory to God then who am I to complain. Yet all things are new but people like to know amazing and sad stories to make them feel better.

I just lament when I have few to fellowship with but then I also know it is self indulgent because I am feeling sorry for myself and I have been given many rights with which much responsibility also goes. Some of that involves being alone as God sets people apart for His purpose as i know He has done and is doing with me.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/15/2008 10:10:28 AM)

quote:

Original: Giulia

Yes I think they are. Men get a good rap for sowing their wild oats. At best they get rebuked and then they have a laugh about it. Not so with women. It's always been like that. Yes there are many in the church who judge and some of those sit in there because they want somewhere to feel safe cause they have no guts to front the real world.


Yes, your right on both points. Men don't get judged by the same standard that women do. And there are some in the church that love to judge others, sad to say. Thats not the way Jesus wants us to be. He told us to take the bean out of our own eye, before trying to remove the mote out of someone else's eye. If we could all reminber to do this it would be heaven.

Here's something I do with the children in Sunday school from time to time.
We have a small bed of rocks in front of our church. I tell the kids to pick out 5 rocks and bring them back to me. Then we look at them. Theres black ones, striped ones, speckled ones, red ones, gray ones, big ones, small ones, smooth ones, some with sharp points. I point all this out to the children, and we talk about how beautful each one is while they are so different. Then I tell them that thats the way people are. All different, and all beautful each in they're own way. Then I tell them that I think the rocks are most beautful when they're all together. The lesson goes on to talking about how we're we're all different and how we are to love others who are different from ourselfs.

I wish the adults (Christians) in this world would get the point of this lesson.
We're to look past the actions of another (past or present), to see the person as Jesus sees them. And love them. We're all different, inside and out. And we all have different past. How can we judge the choices someone else has made in they're past if we havn't walked in they're shoes? We can't!

I don't want to sound like I think I'm perfect, I'll be the first to say I'm not. And I've always been a bit of a square peg that doesn't quite fit into the round hole. But thats ok. I've learned to accept and love myself, and most of all, I know the Lord loves me. And I think He has really inpressed on me the need for us to love one another.

Keep searching. The right church is out there somewhere, where you will be loved and held close and seen for the wonderful, beautful person you are.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/15/2008 12:27:41 PM)

quote:

I have no patience for the hypocrites in the church and I am saddened that I go to my home and find only strangers. The name of Christ gets balsphemed because of all the hypocrites in the church and many stay away because the fellowship is not that of the righteous.

I was a spiritual gypsy for a long time. Going from church to church trying to find a true brother or sister. When I did I found he was concerned more about a tithe or the notoriety of a person than a soul. (came out of his mouth in conversation as a joke which i didn't find too funny) This saddened me and I no longer go there even though I loved to worship with him.

This other church I'd like to go to is very concerned with status. Where you've come from and where you've been and who you know. They talk a lot of words from the bible but they don't know Christ even though some even preach. This is evident by their actions and their little familiarity with Jesus Himself. At some point I need to shake the dust off my feet. We are to judge even the angels and yes I know I will be judged by the measure I use. My measure is a fair one according to what I know by His Presence in me.


The unfortunate fact is that none of us is completely free of hypocrisy, nor are we likely be in this life. Hypocrisy is simply acting as if we were something we are not. Sometimes that is because we wish to impress or deceive others, sometimes it is because we are in the process of becoming, but aren't quite yet.

The only perfect church would be made up of perfect people...and as I am not yet perfect I would not qualify to be a member. A good pastor friend of mine recommends picking a church based on the 4 "F"s.

A place where you are/can
Fed the Word in a way that you can understand and apply.
Fellowship (where you feel at home)
Fit in (where you are comfortable with the way they do worship, how formal/informal they are.)
Fruitful where you can put down roots and bear fruit (be of service to others).

Finding a church like that isn't easy, but they do exist. There is (as I recall) a forum here that is designed to help you find a church in your area, might be worth checking out.


quote:

I just lament when I have few to fellowship with but then I also know it is self indulgent because I am feeling sorry for myself and I have been given many rights with which much responsibility also goes. Some of that involves being alone as God sets people apart for His purpose as i know He has done and is doing with me.


Finding even a couple of people you can fellowship with is a precious thing to be cherished and nurtured.

God does, indeed, set people apart for His purposes, that is what being sanctified means.

But that doesn't generally mean that He means for us to be alone.

not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. (Hebrews 10:25)

In fact we are urged to gather together with other believers to encourage and admonish one another. He may, however, chose to prune away some of our old friends and associates (temporarily or otherwise) replacing them with others more suited to help with His purpose at the moment.

I do hope that you find a good church, or at least a good group of Christian friends to both encourage and be encouraged by.

If for no other reason than that when a lion seeks prey they always try to find one that had wandered off from the herd (or can be separated) because that is the easiest prey.

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (1 Peter 5:8)

If I can help, I do consider you to be a friend.

Tim



LCannon -> RE: Who does everyone associate Mary Magdelene with (5/15/2008 12:43:31 PM)

Usually the depth of depravity that we're saved out of has a direct connection with the value that salvation in any facet of life experience.



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