RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (Full Version)

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Method -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 4:37:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
It's not a matter of 'ID' (a design itself can have good or bad effects), it's a matter of what humans are and whether there exists an objectively applicable morality.


Is there an applicable morality in this case, in your opinion?



Method -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 4:40:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I do not support experimenting with human life, and that's EXACTLY what it is! I don't care if its 2 months, 2 weeks, 2 days, 2 minutes, or 2 seconds old. But, this is just my humble opinion.


How is genetic modification any different than taking medication or undergoing surgery? It could easily be argued that most medications are given on an experimental basis.



Jhud -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 4:45:09 PM)

quote:

Is there an applicable morality in this case, in your opinion?


I certainly think there is an applicable morality.



Method -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 4:48:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark
Tell us, swan42, upon whose ethics are policies of human embryo destruction based?


Fertilization clinics are the largest producers of unwanted embryos. If we stopped the practice of in vitro fertilization this would nearly eliminate the question of what to do with preserved human embryos. If pro-lifers cared as much about life as they claim then they would be picketing in vitro clinics as much as abortion clinics.

So how long are we supposed to keep these embryos on liquid nitrogen? Eternity? These embryos are never going to be implanted and allowed to become adults. It is my opinion that humanity and these embryos would be better served if their destruction led to advances in medicine which saves the lives of others.



evry1needsgod -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 4:58:57 PM)

quote:

These embryos are never going to be implanted and allowed to become adults.


NEVER????? One day in time most people would have agreed that abortion would have never been allowed. At one point in time, hardly anyone questioned the death penalty. This country is slowly become more humanistic, and it would not surprise me if your statement above is proven wrong within the next few decades. Mark my words...



Method -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 5:05:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
NEVER?????


Yes, never. What woman would want to be implanted with a fertilized egg that is not hers? I would think that these types of women are few and far between, far too few to use even a small percentage of embryos currently sitting in liquid nitrogen.

quote:

One day in time most people would have agreed that abortion would have never been allowed.


Abortion potions and procedures are as old as human civilization. There are even mentions of an abortion potion in the Old Testament.

quote:

At one point in time, hardly anyone questioned the death penalty. This country is slowly become more humanistic, and it would not surprise me if your statement above is proven wrong within the next few decades. Mark my words...


I hope I am wrong, but I really don't see it happening.



essentialsaltes -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 5:30:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Method
Yes, never. What woman would want to be implanted with a fertilized egg that is not hers? I would think that these types of women are few and far between, far too few to use even a small percentage of embryos currently sitting in liquid nitrogen.


There is at least one adoption agency that specializes in 'embryo adoptions'. They've had about 100 takers in the past decade or so.



Method -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/20/2008 5:43:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
There is at least one adoption agency that specializes in 'embryo adoptions'. They've had about 100 takers in the past decade or so.


In vitro clinics have been a "little dirty secret" for years. Pro-lifers do not attack these clinics because it is not politically convenient for them. They don't want to be seen attacking couples who are trying hard to have children. It is much more convenient to attack doctors and the ostracized of society (e.g. young, single mothers). Not once do they stop and think that maybe we should rework society so that having children does not stop one from realizing long term goals such as an education. How can we expect single moms to keep their children when we are telling them they are wrong for having a child in the first place? What do we expect teen moms to think when they watch commercials that tell them their life is over if they get pregnant?

I'll step off my soap box before I get too far, but thanks for the link.



ponymt -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/21/2008 12:33:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Method
It is much more convenient to attack doctors and the ostracized of society (e.g. young, single mothers). How can we expect single moms to keep their children when we are telling them they are wrong for having a child in the first place?


It’s encouraging to read that there is common ground, that’s a start! To acknowledge that they are mothers is to affirm that they are caring a human life.

I think that perhaps it would be helpful to clearly define the original question as presented at http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/05/the-first-genet.html “Should genetically modified embryos be used in research, but not reproduction? Both? Neither?”

I believe the crux of the question where the moral ramifications are greatest is presented within the first part of the question, “Should genetically modified embryos be used in research,” the operative word here being “used”. Being “used” implies that the embryos will literally be used for something other than their purpose (i.e. developing through full-term and birth) and therefore this would be the misuse of a created life!



drj11 -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/21/2008 9:34:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ponymt

quote:

ORIGINAL: Method
It is much more convenient to attack doctors and the ostracized of society (e.g. young, single mothers). How can we expect single moms to keep their children when we are telling them they are wrong for having a child in the first place?


It’s encouraging to read that there is common ground, that’s a start! To acknowledge that they are mothers is to affirm that they are caring a human life.



Not necessarily. I'm not sure what Method meant, but the vast majority of women in the US who receive abortions are poverty level single mothers with an existing child already.



drmark -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/24/2008 1:55:40 PM)

quote:

So what is the consensus opinion (if there is one) among theists as it relates to genetically modified embryos?
Aside from the fact that there is not even a consensus opinion on what a "theist' is, I submit that a Christian response to genetic engineering might look like the following from a conservative evangelical Protestant perspective:

Genetic Alteration and Cloning



DanJames -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/24/2008 4:34:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Method

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
There is at least one adoption agency that specializes in 'embryo adoptions'. They've had about 100 takers in the past decade or so.


In vitro clinics have been a "little dirty secret" for years. Pro-lifers do not attack these clinics because it is not politically convenient for them. They don't want to be seen attacking couples who are trying hard to have children. It is much more convenient to attack doctors and the ostracized of society (e.g. young, single mothers). Not once do they stop and think that maybe we should rework society so that having children does not stop one from realizing long term goals such as an education. How can we expect single moms to keep their children when we are telling them they are wrong for having a child in the first place? What do we expect teen moms to think when they watch commercials that tell them their life is over if they get pregnant?

I'll step off my soap box before I get too far, but thanks for the link.


Have you talked to a pro-lifer about the comments you're making here? I don't think you have because it doesn't reflect the opinions of any organization or I've ever talked to. In-vitro clinics produce embryos and destroy the ones that are not used. Nightlight Christian Adoptions is an agency that finds couples who are willing to adopt the embryos that would be otherwise destroyed. Perhaps one day we will be able to reduce the number of embryos needed to be produced to one, and there will be no need to produce so many that will probably never become a viable baby. I don't see how you think that pro-life organizations don't attack them because it's more "politically convenient" to attack the weak and lame of the abortionist left. This is a childish argument that has no basis in reality.
Furthermore, if you think society should be reworked, then by all means, do so. Let those who have been called to defend the unborn do so in the manner which they have chosen.



drj11 -> RE: Genetically Modified Human Embryo (5/24/2008 10:26:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanJames
Have you talked to a pro-lifer about the comments you're making here? I don't think you have because it doesn't reflect the opinions of any organization or I've ever talked to. In-vitro clinics produce embryos and destroy the ones that are not used. Nightlight Christian Adoptions is an agency that finds couples who are willing to adopt the embryos that would be otherwise destroyed. Perhaps one day we will be able to reduce the number of embryos needed to be produced to one, and there will be no need to produce so many that will probably never become a viable baby. I don't see how you think that pro-life organizations don't attack them because it's more "politically convenient" to attack the weak and lame of the abortionist left. This is a childish argument that has no basis in reality.
Furthermore, if you think society should be reworked, then by all means, do so. Let those who have been called to defend the unborn do so in the manner which they have chosen.


Most pro-life groups seem to stay away from IVF, from what I see. When they start calling those scientists genocidal serial killers, they tend to lose credibility with sane people.



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