The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (Full Version)

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BlindLemon5103 -> The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 9:44:46 AM)

I read that the Doors catalog was reissued yet again in 2007, the 40th Anniversary "remixes".

In addition to including bonus tracks, these albums are now remastered at the "proper speed" (the old albums were supposedly just a bit too slow) and include material not included in the original mix (longer solos, extended vocals, other instruments, etc.).

In short, the music I grew up on has been somewhat revised. I already own the six albums remastered in 1999 (which sound great in my opinion)...that's the Doors I grew up with.

My question is, with the cost of gas and food very high, with the cost of private high school looming on the horizon, with my wife calling for a stop to unnecessary purchases in the interest of fiscal responsibilty (like CD purchases, when I already have a 1,200 disc collection)....are these worth having?

Is it worth rebuying all the albums? Does anybody have these, or has anybody heard these remixes? Is it that much different to warrant buying the same albums all over again?

I suppose it depends on how much of a Doors fanatic one is....but is it really worth it?

Just wondering. Look forward to hearing some opinions on this issue.

Then again, I often wondering if endless remasterings and remixes are merely ploys to get the consumer to buy the same music over and over again.

Blessings to everyone!



mapachito13 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 9:53:14 AM)

[sm=icon_smile_evil.gif] You know you want them. Just buy them! [sm=icon_smile_evil.gif]

[sm=angel.gif] No lemon you have enough! [sm=angel.gif]

[sm=icon_smile_evil.gif]Don't listen just buy them![sm=icon_smile_evil.gif]

[sm=angel.gif] Nooooooo! [sm=angel.gif]

I feel your pain my friend!



uncabeeil -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 10:13:22 AM)

I have the original vinyl pressings. Yes, I'm old enough to remember when the Doors were new. Shoot, I'm old enough to remember when the Beatles were new! I figure if the vinyl's been good enough this long there's no reason to spend any more money on them.



miasma -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 10:15:38 AM)

Not buy.



stellaluna -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 10:17:11 AM)

Not buy.



freakofnature -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 11:19:51 AM)

the who?

"The Doors" you idiot

the who?

I said "The Doors"

the who?

NO! "The Doors"

The who?

Not "The Who" "The Doors!"
(LOL, "who's on first", Abbot and Costello)

Don't buy. The Doors? EH??



Rufas2000 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 11:20:23 AM)

I have the 2007 remixes. But if I had the 1999 remasters I'd be happy with those. By the time I decided to get some Doors studio albums the originals were pulled off the shelf.

The 2007 remixes sound great except Morrison's voice is not as pronounced (other instruments have been turned up). Its not a remix in the modern sense where the songs sound totally different. Just touched up a bit. The debut CD is the only one with the "speed" issue. You may want to get just that one for starters to see how it plays (and then you'll have the first one at the correct speed).

I'm curious as to the resons for the two "not buys" up there. Is it an issue specific to these releases or a general disgust with the greed of the music industry.



mapachito13 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 11:27:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

the who?

"The Doors" you idiot

the who?

I said "The Doors"

the who?

NO! "The Doors"

The who?

Not "The Who" "The Doors!"
(LOL, "who's on first", Abbot and Costello)

Don't buy. The Doors? EH??


[:D]



BlindLemon5103 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 11:59:41 AM)

Now I will have you all know that I was the biggest Doors fan known to man back in my high school / college days. Fanatical.

I owned all the albums, not to mention several bootlegs....video tapes, every book on the subject available. (anyone remember "No One Here Gets Out Alive"?). Posters of the band adorned my bedroom walls.

I was one of those nuts who thought that Jim Morrison had cleverly faked his own death and that his triumphant return was imminent!

Thankfully, I'm not the same person today, but I do get in the mood to listen to them from time to time, thus I still own their music for that very purpose. A lot of nostalgia there.

Remixes seemed like revisionist history, in my book, and another shameless attempt to reach into my wallet.

If this was 1983, I would have been there with cash in hand the day they were released. In 2008, as a Christian, as a 43-year father of two with different priorities now, I'm sure I can live without them.

But they are tempting, in that it would be interesting to hear old "favorites" done a little differently....if they are not all that much different, as Rufas says, it would not be a good investment if I already have these albums.

Maybe I'll just hang on to my money and put it into my gas tank where it belongs! Over $4.00 per gallon!

Keep the input coming! I enjoy the various perspectives on not only the Doors, but on the relative merits of continuous re-issues and remasterings.



BlindLemon5103 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 12:01:11 PM)

...by the way, Jim is dead. Finally saw the light on that one! [;)]



Rufas2000 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 12:06:24 PM)

Some albums get remastered every five years whereas others never get remastered (Beatles anyone?). I don't think any remaster beyond the mid 90s needs to be replaced. After that it seems they just get turned up louder.



uncabeeil -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 12:35:06 PM)

quote:

by the way, Jim is dead.
Sez you! You probably believe Elvis is dead, too. [8D]



BlindLemon5103 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 1:14:50 PM)

No, Elvis is alive....I saw him today!

Regarding remastering, first it was 20-bit, then 24-bit.....at the time, I said "what's next? 32-bit? 48-bit? ....the band actually playing live in your living room? Where does it end?".

I think when it comes to older recordings such as these (the Doors) they should make every effort to have the remastering sound as close as possible to the original vinyl, with only minor enhancements. Preserve it as it was intended, I guess. A lot of the early CD's sounded inferior to their vinyl counterparts, lacking in warmth and ambience (i.e. the Beatles....these seem flat and somewhat tinny sounding to me...rebuying their catalog if, and when it gets remastered would be worthwhile).

I remember that a lot of vintage recordings of the '20s and '30s were "electronically re-processed for stereo"....that didn't sound too good, I recall.

The point is, you can only clean up vintage recordings so much...they are what they are, and too much enhancement can make it unrealistic.

Who wants to hear a Blind Lemon Jefferson 78 in fake stereo? If he had lived to take advantage of modern recording technology, that would have been great to hear, but I don't go for trying to "update" the original recording. It was what it was, and it is what it is.

I don't mind things like minimizing tape hiss, or defects that come with age.

I'm just rambling here....thanks for listening!



Rufas2000 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 1:49:14 PM)

quote:

I think when it comes to older recordings such as these (the Doors) they should make every effort to have the remastering sound as close as possible to the original vinyl, with only minor enhancements. Preserve it as it was intended, I guess.


I'm pretty sure that would describe your 1999 Doors remasters.



uncabeeil -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 2:49:42 PM)

quote:

I remember that a lot of vintage recordings of the '20s and '30s were "electronically re-processed for stereo"....that didn't sound too good, I recall.
There were a couple of Beatles compilations that they did this to. They split all the mono songs between two channels with no middle. They were pitiful.



Rufas2000 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/14/2008 3:04:25 PM)

They converted the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" to stereo but I think they did a good job with it. It helps that the current in print of "Pet Sounds" has the original mono and newer stereo versions on it.

I think The Beatles "Sgt. Peppers ..." was recoreded in mono also but they did a stereo version also at the time (as opposed to years later).

But no, the really old time bluesmen should not get the stereo treatment.



mapachito13 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/15/2008 9:51:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlindLemon5103

No, Elvis is alive....I saw him today!


I saw him yesterday but he had been reincarnated as my friend's pet chihuahua![;)]

quote:

Regarding remastering, first it was 20-bit, then 24-bit.....at the time, I said "what's next? 32-bit? 48-bit? ....the band actually playing live in your living room? Where does it end?".


With computer generated 3D holographic images of the band to give you that at the concert/video set feel. It will have interactive technology so that you can take the place of one of the band members. Up to three of your friends can play. Coming soon on Rock Band Version 313 for the Playstation 16, Xbox 3060, and WII (13th generation). Now I have to go WII WII! [sm=crazy.gif]

Boy, I've been in a silly mood lately. Must be all the coffee (and lack of sleep) I've been getting lately!

quote:

I think when it comes to older recordings such as these (the Doors) they should make every effort to have the remastering sound as close as possible to the original vinyl, with only minor enhancements. Preserve it as it was intended, I guess. A lot of the early CD's sounded inferior to their vinyl counterparts, lacking in warmth and ambience (i.e. the Beatles....these seem flat and somewhat tinny sounding to me...rebuying their catalog if, and when it gets remastered would be worthwhile).


And in this day and age with all the newer sound engineering technology there no excuse for making those songs sound worse (flatter or tinny sound, bass losing its punch, etc.) than the original vinyl.

quote:

I remember that a lot of vintage recordings of the '20s and '30s were "electronically re-processed for stereo"....that didn't sound too good, I recall.

The point is, you can only clean up vintage recordings so much...they are what they are, and too much enhancement can make it unrealistic.


Is that the nice way to say "Sounds like [:'(]"

Disclaimer: Last comment edited as to not violate TOS.



Rufas2000 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/15/2008 11:30:14 AM)

quote:

And in this day and age with all the newer sound engineering technology there no excuse for making those songs sound worse (flatter or tinny sound, bass losing its punch, etc.) than the original vinyl.


I agree with that but the case that vinylphiles will make is that vinyl has a certain sound to it that a CD, no matter how well engineered, can replicate. I have never heard any measurements that back up the vinyl is better argument (and don't believe they exist) but some prefer it and if they do enjoy.

Remember as well that these recordings were made with the record album format in mind and are maximized for that format. This might be a good reason to buy The Doors new remixes as they were made with the digital format in mind and weren't limited

I personally have no real interest in vinyl and CDs sound great to me (if they are done well). But thats the other side of it FWIW.



BlindLemon5103 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/19/2008 8:58:25 PM)

Well, I went ahead and picked up the remixed first album .....and my first is impression is that it's too fast! Not the album I grew up with, even though it is now at the "proper" speed. These ears are accustomed to the old mix.

I do find Morrison's voice farther back in the mix (not necessarily a good thing), the drums seem to be in the forefront, and so far, I don't sense the "mysterious" quality of the original album. It just seems peppier and brighter.

What I did like was hearing new details that were not present in the originals.

I'll give it a chance! Once I get over the "shock" of it, I will be able to appreciate it as something that complements the original, rather than replacing it.

I may eventually pick up the other albums, but by no means will I part with my 1999 remasters...THOSE are truly the albums I grew up with!

I'm still wondering if this is what the band really wanted back in 1967, or that they are just adding the missing parts that they originally wanted to leave out so as to sell the same albums over again to guys like me.

And how is it that it took them 40 years to figure out the originaql album was at the wrong speed?

Might just pick up "Absolutely Live" one of these days..haven't heard that album in 20-plus years.



freakofnature -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/20/2008 11:00:35 AM)

quote:

Not the album I grew up with, even though it is now at the "proper" speed. These ears are accustomed to the old mix.


These kinds of things are why I try to stay out of nostalgia. Too many disappointments. I like the Doors for what they were, innovative, original, great songwriters but stay away from their "remix" albums and such. I remember once when I was young, I watched the movie "Young Guns" the best movie I had ever seen to that point in my life... Years later, saw it at Best Buy, remade DVD, purchased it... took it home. Told my wife how great it was, (she had never seen it) made her sit through it. And when it was over, I just sat there and could not remember for the life of me why I liked it so much as a kid... Major disapointment.



BlindLemon5103 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/20/2008 12:54:05 PM)

I hear you. There's good nostalgia and bad nostalgia.

Upon revisiting some of the old artists I used to like back in the day, I ask myself "what on earth did I see in these guys?" - and this might not even be from a moral perspective, it's just that the music seems dated or not as good as I thought it was. A band like Kiss, who I loved as a 13-year old, seems juvenile and pointless now, no matter how well they "rocked" musically...I just can't relate or enjoy anymore. On the other hand, I still enjoy certain things by The Doors (obviously), Led Zeppelin, etc......just see it from a different perspective now.

Some artists are still quite enjoyable, while others rightfully belong in the wastebasket of my musical history.

Freak, I checked out Mike Farris on the gospel music channel....he's pretty good! I'll have to hunt down his album! Again, thanks for the info!

Blind "Lizard King" Lemon [;)]



freakofnature -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/20/2008 2:12:35 PM)

quote:

A band like Kiss...seems juvenile and pointless now,


LOL... Why oh why are they still so popular??? I never appreciated the Kiss phenomona?

I did enjoy the Farris segment, I too will be looking for his C.D. not bad... not bad at all.



uncabeeil -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/20/2008 3:45:03 PM)

quote:

Why oh why are they still so popular???
Because there are still 13 year old boys, and 13 year old boys love loud noises and bright lights.

I was listening to an old Supertramp album the other day and wondering why I ever thought it was so good. I still like the band, especially their Crime of the Century and Breakfast in America albums, but don't know why I wasted the money on "Crisis? What Crisis?".



doinkdom -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/20/2008 4:29:33 PM)

There was nothing like sitting in my candlelit bedroom, snuggled into my bean bag, head phones the size of Princess Leah's hairbuns over my ears...jamming to the comforting crackle of vinyl of The Doors and The Who. Toss in some ancient Ozzie and I was good.

Don't buy - The Doors should be left alone with the digitally remastered, enhanced, pheaux sounding nonsense that is not their sound.

Part of the joy of listening to their music was the crackle just before the song started.



Rufas2000 -> RE: The Doors remixes: To buy or not to buy? (5/20/2008 6:02:48 PM)

I just listened to some songs from my "Legacy" best of set (culled from the 99 remasters) and then to some songs from The Doors debut CD. Same songs of course. Morrison's voice was up in the mix more than I thought (I've worked on getting my system to do that across the board) but lacked body and that wonderful "roar". Overall as one would expect when something is sped up a bit the sound has more highs to it and is clearer. There might be a smiggen more detail as well. The separation is more distinct as well (perhaps too distinct in spots).

I was eyeing a used copy of "The Complete Studio Recordings" (the only way I can find the 1999 remasters aside from downloading and that sound quality is not acceptable to me) for $60 but after comparing the two I'll keep the 2007 remixes. If I had a clear choice I would take the 1999 remasters because I'm a traditionalist and Morrison's voice but its not worth $60 to me right now to switch over. I just wish I had decided to get the Dors studio albums before the 1999 remasters were pulled in favor of the 2007 remixes.

The 2007 remixes do have their charms and again, don't think of Jaz Z remixing Linkin Park (or their "Reanimation"? EP). The difference is much subtler than that (even considering the slightly faster sound) and everything that was used came from the original sessions. I don't think most casual fans would notice short of playing them back to back.

Not that it needed change but lets be clear what we have here.



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