RE: how to be friends with atheists

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manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 7:49:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting This is my last post in this thread...I can see that no one believes along the same lines as I, and that is fine. I just cannot see how associating with an atheist or a wiccan or any other person that denies God in everyday life, even if they are not outspoken about it, can be good for a child...and especially for a child that is not yet saved and grounded in his faith. The Bible tells us that what would it profit us if we gain the whole world yet lose our own soul. My children may be able to lead many to Christ without being grounded in the faith themselves (which they are, even at a young age), but why would we let them be with people that do not share the same love in their hearts that we do on a regular basis? It's great to invite the lost to church, to communicate with them so that you can have that outreach, but bringing them in on your children who you are trying to train up in the faith... So, if these "lost" people were members of your own family (grandparents, siblings, cousins), would you also advocate not allowing your child to associate with them too?

buckifn -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 7:56:07 AM)
Good luck with "shielding your children from evil" God could not do that for His son, Jesus, nor did He want to. He KNEW the evil and sent His Son BECAUSE of the evil. Why? LOVE. Love should still be our compelling factor in every relationship. If we can't teach our children to reach out with God's love what are we teaching them?

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 8:05:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luvmysavior Another person posted earlier that there are many realities, such as gay parents, that our kids will have to learn about. I'm not prepared to introduce that to my son yet, even though it's a fact of life, and I believe that as Christians we are to love everyone, including homosexuals (who are welcome with open arms at our church too). luvmysavior Could I just say that if you haven't yet spoken to your son about homosexuality (and sexuality in general), then he could be at risk from predators - adults, teens and children. At 6, both my children knew how to keep themselves safe and about certain parts being "private". It's the same principle regarding atheists and other non-believers - my POV is that if children are shielded and not prepared, then they are not enabled and equipped to keep themselves safe. How will your son deal with atheists he meets at school, if he has not dealt with them at home, under your supervision?

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 9:11:36 AM)
luvmysavior How often were you seeing this friend of yours beforehand, and how much time would the two children play together? And would it always be at your home?

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 1:45:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: manda59 So, if these "lost" people were members of your own family (grandparents, siblings, cousins), would you also advocate not allowing your child to associate with them too? You are so making it seem as though I don't have a heart for seeing the lost come to salvation, and that is just not true. I invite many people to church, witness to many people... So, it's not that way at all. But, since you asked the question, I will answer this.... I do not let my children be around family members who are unsaved in isolation...they don't play alone with them, they do not go to their house, and IF we see one another, it is at grandparents or great grandparents house...not in my house. When we see one another, my children treat them well, play well with them, and talk to them, but I do not let them be alone with them. My children should not have to defend their faith until they are old enough to do so... and at this age they are not. If it came down to it, I would rather have my children live this way all of their lives and go to heaven someday than to equip and enable them by testing their faith when they are so small and have only just begun this wonderful journey. As for the OP, I will answer your questions later in a PM.

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 2:19:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting I do not let my children be around family members who are unsaved in isolation... The OP was not speaking about her son being around this girl "in isolation", but in her company. (And btw, by implication, using that same reasoning, that would mean that if a Christian mother here was married to an unbeliever, she should not let her children be alone with their daddy.........) quote: If it came down to it, I would rather have my children live this way all of their lives and go to heaven someday than to equip and enable them by testing their faith when they are so small and have only just begun this wonderful journey. I don't think you understand what to equip and enable means. It means to teach them to be able to cope and to be victorious. It means to empower them, so that they are able to own their parents' values and standards for themselves, so that they know, within themselves, what is the right thing to do. At age 6, which is the age of the OP's son, IMO a child needs to have already started being able to do that, especially if he is out in the world at public school during the week, and not always at home with a parent.

luvmysavior -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 8:40:17 PM)
quote: luvmysavior How often were you seeing this friend of yours beforehand, and how much time would the two children play together? And would it always be at your home? Well, we see them once every few months. That hasn't really changed. We saw each other about that often before this event happened, and it's been about that much time that has gone by since the event took place. We're pet sitting for them right now. Other than that, it is not a relationship where we have a whole lot in common, but we share a past history from college and we stay in touch. The children would play together for a couple of hours when the mom and I visited. It was either at my house or theirs; but this event took place at my home in my son's room, when my friend and I were in the kitchen talking.

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 11:09:34 PM)
If I am wrong about the children playing together in isolation, I apologize. I know that usually when children come to visit, the children go into another room to play while the grown-ups stay in another room to talk. That's the only thing I will choose to reply to in Manda's post because she and I haven't seen eye to eye on many issues, and this happens to be another........ Just for some background info...in college, the girl in the next room down from mine was an atheist. She and I talked...she watched my walk...she came to me for questions, and I would see her pondering in her mind. Today, if you asked me who my FRIENDS were in college, the liklihood that I would mention her name would be slim to none... because although I talked to her and we visited each other's room from time to time, our conversations usually centered around our differences in beliefs...where she would tell me why she didn't believe, and I would tell her why her reasoning didn't make sense... She eventually, before we graduated, met and married another atheist, and I haven't heard from her since. If she moved in next door tomorrow, had children, and was still an atheist, I would not allow my children to play with her children without MY CLOSE OBSERVATION. My children are my top priority... they have been told that some people do not believe in God...they have been taught that when someone does evil to them, they should respond with kindness...do what Jesus did when He was on earth. I believe that they would handle themselves well with these "hypothetical" children, but I would not let the child tell them all the reasons that they do not believe. Why put a doubt in the minds of children?! They will have enough people shouting at them to doubt and to turn away from Christ as they get older. Right now, while we have the opportunity, why shouldn't we protect them from the thought that there is no God?! This is my second post since I said it was my last...but when I am responded to, I feel the need to clarify.

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/18/2008 11:14:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: buckifn Good luck with "shielding your children from evil" God could not do that for His son, Jesus, nor did He want to. He KNEW the evil and sent His Son BECAUSE of the evil. Why? LOVE. Love should still be our compelling factor in every relationship. If we can't teach our children to reach out with God's love what are we teaching them? Jesus was God in the flesh...much more capable of handling the evil in His path. My children reach out in love to all people...and I believe that I have taught them that. I give them hypothetical situations on a daily basis and ask them how they would react. They have told me that if they meet a "bad man" who doesn't love Jesus, that they will tell him about Jesus. Also, when they react the wrong way with one another...getting upset with brother or sister and act on it, I take them aside after punishment and ask they what they should have done instead of what they did do. So, I am teaching them love, but I don't think being purposefully put with unbelievers is the best way to teach love at their age. They will have enough of it when they are OLDER. Teach them now, put don't throw 'em out there yet!

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 10:42:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luvmysavior The children would play together for a couple of hours when the mom and I visited. It was either at my house or theirs; but this event took place at my home in my son's room, when my friend and I were in the kitchen talking. If it was me, I would not in any case have allowed a 9 yr old girl to be in my 6 yr old son's room, just from a POV of appropriate boundaries because of the gender difference, and also the age difference. I would have made sure that the children were playing together in my sight and the get-together would probably only have happened at our home, or at an outside location, say a playground, or McDonalds, or something.

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 10:47:45 AM)
So, I guess the children were playing together in isolation, huh? How many times has something happened right under the parents noses when the children were in another room playing with a friend's or neighbor's child? Oh boy...I think Manda and I agree on something...whether the child's parents were atheist or not, it was not a good idea for them to play in a room together alone without supervision... Did I just agree with Manda?![sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif] [sm=icon_smile_faint.gif][sm=eek.gif]

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 10:52:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting So, I guess the children were playing together in isolation, huh? How many times has something happened right under the parents noses when the children were in another room playing with a friend's or neighbor's child? If they're in another room, it's not under their noses (since their nose would be in another room).[8D] That aside [;)] we must have different ideas of "in isolation". To me, my son playing "in isolation" with another child would mean that I wasn't there at all, not even on the premises.

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 10:58:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: manda59 If they're in another room, it's not under their noses (since their nose would be in another room).[8D] That aside [;)] we must have different ideas of "in isolation". To me, my son playing "in isolation" with another child would mean that I wasn't there at all, not even on the premises. BUT if parents are talking in another room, how do they know what is going on with the children in the other room? My children sometimes play in their room together...MY two boys...while I'm cooking or cleaning, and I don't know EVERYTHING that happens. I will go in there to check on them regularly, and will say, "WHO did this?" One will blame it on the other...I don't KNOW (although it's usually easy to figure out) who did it until I finally get them to confess...lol... So, the point is that even if we consider isolation two different things, the concept is still the same. The parent doesn't know what the children talked about or did really. Since I'm not sure if you are joking or not about the under the nose comment, I will just say it's a figure of speech and you know what I mean... And, BTW, Manda...I edited my post after you read it to include a side note...don't forget to check it!

stellaluna -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 11:28:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting They have told me that if they meet a "bad man" who doesn't love Jesus, that they will tell him about Jesus. I hope "bad man" and "not Christian" mean two separate things here.

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 11:36:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stellaluna quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting They have told me that if they meet a "bad man" who doesn't love Jesus, that they will tell him about Jesus. I hope "bad man" and "not Christian" mean two separate things here. You and me both.

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 12:51:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stellaluna quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting They have told me that if they meet a "bad man" who doesn't love Jesus, that they will tell him about Jesus. I hope "bad man" and "not Christian" mean two separate things here. True Christians who are following Jesus fully are not "bad." Not Christian is not something we can figure out by looking at a person though, so for my children to determine who is bad and who is not, the person would have to express it to them in some way other than just appearance...

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 12:53:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting quote: ORIGINAL: stellaluna quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting They have told me that if they meet a "bad man" who doesn't love Jesus, that they will tell him about Jesus. I hope "bad man" and "not Christian" mean two separate things here. True Christians who are following Jesus fully are not "bad." And what about non-Christians?

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 12:57:09 PM)
Not all non-Christians are "bad." I never said that. I expect my children to tell everyone they meet about Jesus...not because I tell them too, but because they want to. And so far, so good. We meet new neighbors, and they start telling them about what Bible story or character they are studying. We talk to people in the store, and they do the same thing. I am glad for that. They came up with that on their own..."If we meet a bad man, we will tell him about Jesus." I thought it was pretty awesome for them to feel empowered and enabled enough to go up to a person that they have termed as "bad," and tell them about Jesus. BTW, Manda, I feel so overjoyed to be inclluded in your signature now! LOL

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 1:38:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting They came up with that on their own..."If we meet a bad man, we will tell him about Jesus." I thought it was pretty awesome for them to feel empowered and enabled enough to go up to a person that they have termed as "bad," and tell them about Jesus. If my kids even now (18 or 14) met a "bad man", I'd hope they would not stick around to tell him anything.[8\|] I certainly would not have wanted them to think about doing this when they were younger, and can only just imagine my ds (the 18yo) maybe doing that now.

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 5:09:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: manda59 If my kids even now (18 or 14) met a "bad man", I'd hope they would not stick around to tell him anything.[8\|] I certainly would not have wanted them to think about doing this when they were younger, and can only just imagine my ds (the 18yo) maybe doing that now. What about empowering and enabling? They are going to meet bad people in their lives...not that we WANT them too, but it does happen. A "bad man" to them could be anything...from a person who just says that God isn't real to a person who litters.

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 6:21:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting A "bad man" to them could be anything...from a person who just says that God isn't real to a person who litters. I wouldn't call either of them bad people and think that we have very different ideas about what a bad person actually is. Anyway, back to the topic. I wanted to ask the OP something about her first post: quote: A few months ago, their daughter told my little boy that she does not believe in God. This rocked my son's world. He was very upset and confused. As a result, my husband does not want our son to spend time with our friends' daughter. I agree with him, because our son is at an impressionable age. The problem is, how can I explain this to my friend, without losing her friendship, and without destroying my witness? I'm afraid that she will think, "Another judgemental, close-minded Christian!" But my husband and I are on the same page, and I have been "avoiding" my friend for several months because I have no idea how to handle this. luvmysavior I was wondering why you feel the need to explain things at all? If I've understood correctly, you still see this family and interact with them, you just haven't got together one on one (or two on two) with your friend and her dd. Has she perhaps said something to indicate that she's noticed a change?

VisitorinWaiting -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 6:54:44 PM)
I also want to add that from the original post, she also said that her husband didn't want the children playing together anymore. I think this is important. She said they were on the same page. So, it doesn't seem like the discussion here is whether or not to let the children play together...it's how to explain it to her friend when she stops inviting over for visits...

manda59 -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 6:59:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting ..it's how to explain it to her friend when she stops inviting over for visits... So, what do you suggest then?

buckifn -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 8:37:20 PM)
labeling a person "bad" is one thing Jesus does not do. Not to mention the fact that Jesus was NOT more capable of handling evil than we are...HE is the one who said "GREATER works than these shall YOU do" when talking of himself. ALL POWER is given to us by the Father. I would not teach my child anything less. Your attitude is teaching your children a lot of things, but I'm not sure it is about the love of Jesus, are you?

luvmysavior -> RE: how to be friends with atheists (5/19/2008 8:44:03 PM)
quote: I was wondering why you feel the need to explain things at all? If I've understood correctly, you still see this family and interact with them, you just haven't got together one on one (or two on two) with your friend and her dd. Has she perhaps said something to indicate that she's noticed a change? You're right about our latest interactions. We're busy during the school year--so it's easy to go a while without seeing each other. She has not noticed any change or said anything--in fact, she's not the best person about following through on plans, or going a long time without calling me, etc. But our friendship has been like that for years--just one of those friendships where you don't talk often, but you can always pick right up where you left off, kwim? But summer's coming up, so there may be more opportunities to try to get together, and then it may be something I need to explain.

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