I am so distressed. (Full Version)

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lightshineon -> I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 10:28:57 AM)

You have to read this post carefully to get facts, and I will try and be as clear as possible. Last nights was mid-week service, my 14 year old daughter always brings her friend. We have have dinner before church at church for a small fee. Then everyone goes to main church, youth go to youth group, and a group called J-force 9-12 year olds goes to their group. Starting next week, we start at 7 instead of 6:30, with no dinner. I told my DD yesterday church started a seven, and she kept that in her head for some reason. This is important.

After church, I ask my oldest daughter to go upstairs to get DD, and DD friend, and take DD friend home. My oldest DD, found my husband and I in hallway, telling husband and I that, childrens pastor had DD and friend cornered in hallway. Oldest DD, said she did not know what was going hon. I went upstairs DD andfriend were sitting on top steps of stairs with the Childrens minister, the Assistant Childrens minister, and worship leader all standing in descending steps on stairs, talking loudly to my DD and DD friend. MY DD was crying saying " we did not do anything" I could hear childrens pastor saying " Well she believed the boys, one is her son."
I ask what is going on? The childrens pastors said my DD and DD best friend were in J-12 room, and my DD was laying on leather couch and DD best friend was about 100 yards away with her pants pulled down. That is the testimony of two 12 year old boys.
I question DD, and BF, and they said what happened is this, they have games in J-12 room, ad snacks. They girls kept looking a cell phones thinking church stated at seven, that is why I said this is important. My DD when we came to church was wearing contacts, and when I talked to her she had glassess on. She said her eye was hurting, she laid down on leather couch, and BF went to cabinet to get a bag of chips. The childrens pastor kept in a rather acusing manner said the boys said pants were pulled down of best friend according to boys, and questioning of children. This happened while we were in mains service, and after service and no one got her father or I.
I was on my way home we stopped for ice, I was still trying to fiqure the whole thing out. I felt the Lord say to my heart " Did they catch them in a sexual act?"
The answear was no, and that brought understanding to my heart. The pants pulled down issue of BF, I still wondered about. My Middle DD, was washing dishes when we got home, she said mom " Honestly, when my DD BF bends down her panties show alot." She supposedly, according to wittnessess, had dropped a pair of chips and was picking them up. Remember no adult witnessed this.
We met with pastor and talked to him at StarBucks, and he said it was such a non-issue, he did not believe two twelve year old boys. He said Childrens pastor is hypersensitive to sexual things because she has just taken on a foster child, who is disturbed, but has been sexualy abused, so everything is sexual to her. I believe my DD, it all adds up, I do not just blindly believe anyone, but I know she is telling the truth.
I am so my mad at childrens pastor and other adults. We were in church building, they never got us. They were questioning two children on top of stairs everyone, walking by. I think they made something out of nothing. My husband is an elder, and I teach. The other children, now probaly have them pegged as lesbians, which both are outcast anyway. t I just feel like quitting this church. I would never do children that way, even if quilty, but know these two little boys, just were saying things. There was no sexual act caught, one was bent down with underware showing, and my DD laying 100 Yards away on leather couch fully clothe. I know mother of BF DD will be calling, I am going to give her Childrens pastors number. The funny thing is DD BF is strange, and she is afraid of homosexuals.
What would you do, I am in tears, mad, furious. How are these two especially DD intergrated back into youth group after this nonsense with children gossiping about them. Pastor did not even believe it was an issue. Childrens church pastor gave him two different stories. What would you do? Thank You. Please read this carefully, I tried to be clear and as honest as I could. Thank You.



manda59 -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 10:40:50 AM)

How come the children were in that room unsupervised?

Whatever did or did not happen, the leadership were wrong to speak to your dd and her friend without you or your dh being present.



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 10:45:11 AM)

Pastor said children were unsupervised and he was getting polocy in place. I know nothing happened. I feel like calling childrens pastor this morning. We have always gotten along well, but I am livid.
quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

How come the children were in that room unsupervised?

Whatever did or did not happen, the leadership were wrong to speak to your dd and her friend without you or your dh being present.



Brandy -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 10:53:49 AM)

Since you are sure of your daughter and her friend NOT doing anything inappropriate I would be pushing policy that NO ADULT talks to a child WIHTOUT that childs parent there, especially concerning things seen or not seen by others.

I would push it so far as to policy in writing in place and signed off by every parent who has a child that attends there.

I would be furious to find out someone, anyone, was talking to my child this way in the stairway with out my presence. FURIOUS.

I probably would also tell my daughter she is not allowed to be alone in a room with another child. Always have an adult around or be in a group of kids. 2 people, any age, alone can be severely misconstrued and it's not worth the risk of the backlash you are now seeing.

And ya, at the end of the day I would probably not be attending this church any longer if there was any resistance to getting a policy of parents present in place.



Kat_D -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 11:12:18 AM)

There is a BIG difference between "with her pants down" and "bending down and her panties showing" and I don't see how anyone could mistake one for the other. I don't think you should automatically take the boys' word, but I do think further investigation is warranted. If it were me, I'd sit down with my daughter and attempt to find out what actually happened. There are some red flags here that would definitely set off my concern buttons.



woodwind228 -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 12:34:46 PM)

I think the pastor should have the children's pastor apologize to you, your husban, dd, and bf for the scene that was caused. If her story isn't consistent, then there's a problem with it. Furthermore, if they suspected a situation like that, they should've separated the children, and got you and your husband there immediately. If it wasn't straightened out and they felt there was abuse, then they should've called dfcs and let them investigate.

Their reaction was totally wrong. I say this from a perspective of a mother having had to deal with dd being molested. I researched the topic after finding out about it. So while I'm sensitive in this area, I also use my common sense and refer back to what I've learned about child molestation and such. I would never have reacted the way the children's pastor did - and this was my flesh-and-blood that I went through this with.

I do think the preacher is on the right track about implementing a policy for this type of situation. Don't let what happened imbitter you toward them or toward God. As hard as it will be, you must forgive. Jesus tells us to. Forgiveness is not a feeling, but an action. We can't do it in our own strength, we have to ask God to give us the ability to forgive our transgressors. If we can't forgive others, we won't be forgiven. Wait and see how things play out before going to a different church. Forgiveness contains a lot of healing. Truly.



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 2:06:06 PM)

Kat, J-12 Pastor called me, and said after praying about it, she felt God speak, that these girls were falsely accused. The childrens pastor has not as of yet. The boys said she was getting chips also. Her panties were showing a great deal. If sexual inappropriateness was going on, her panties would be down, and she was far away from my DD who was lying on the couch, with glassess on and a red eye. She came to church with contacts in, and wen she was on public viewing witch trial, she was had glassess on. The J-12 pastor said many kids lay on the coach. I went into the situtatin, truthfully thinking maybe something to the story, then everything just seemed ridiculious. My husband, told me not to be bitter, just now, though he is furios lOl. Pastor said since childrens pastor recently foster cares for this little boy, who has been abused he has noticed two or three times, she is very hypersensative and made several comments about other, things relating to sexual things, and he acted like they were unfounded, not to do with DD. Pastor siad he would put polocies in place, many children were going wild last night, after dinner, Some smaller kids had the nursery torn up, some spilled cappiciono. I sat with my DD and BF, while eating, they said they were going to youth room to play mega man, it was fullin there so went to J-12 room to play fooze ball (sp). My DD eye started hurting badly, she laid down, shut her eye, with glassess. The BF was not near bent down to get chips, they are in a box under the cabinents, my DD said she was laying there and heard bf say oops, I guess BF, who mt middle DD says panties show a great deal with BF, is bent down, she has a very thin waist. My own girls bend over and I see crack, way too often, and I get them for that. I went into this with an open mind thinking DD coyld be quilty, until I prayed and used common sense. They did not catch them in any sexual activity at all, just a show of panties, an accusations of that by twelve year boys.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

There is a BIG difference between "with her pants down" and "bending down and her panties showing" and I don't see how anyone could mistake one for the other. I don't think you should automatically take the boys' word, but I do think further investigation is warranted. If it were me, I'd sit down with my daughter and attempt to find out what actually happened. There are some red flags here that would definitely set off my concern buttons.



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 2:51:20 PM)

Up date Youth pastors wife just called, she was one of three women on stairs. She said her DD was a witness to events, and her DD said my DD was laying on the couch, and BF was bent over getting chips. Just as was told, she apologized too. Saying it was a misunderstanding, her DD was a witness, never ask only two boys. I am waiting for Childrens pastor. What a horrible false accusation> Stupid.



buckifn -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 3:30:26 PM)

Your story is very hard to follow, but the bottom line for me would be I would never take my kids back to a church where kids were left unsupervised and situations are handled in the manner you described.

I'd find a church with structure and with workers who are trained to work with children in a prof. manner.



pbaribeault -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 3:43:45 PM)

It sounds like this is being sorted-through reasonably well, given the original situation.

I'd like to remind you that there is a difference between "accusations" and people just trying to figure out what might have been going on.
quote:

childrens pastor had DD and friend cornered in hallway... DD and friend were sitting on top steps of stairs with the Childrens minister, the Assistant Childrens minister, and worship leader all standing in descending steps on stairs, talking loudly to my DD and DD friend. MY DD was crying saying "we did not do anything" I could hear childrens pastor saying, "Well she believed the boys, one is her son."
That sounds like an over-reaction, to be sure, but I'm not sure that anybody in leadership actually accused your DD and/or her friend of having done anything. The children's pastor could simply be meaning that she trusted that there was something to the boys' report, since she had confidence in her son's general truthfulness.

And you can see that there was something to the boys' report -- a significant amount of underwear was sighted.

Considering this,
quote:

My DD eye started hurting badly, she laid down, shut her eye, with glassess. The BF was not near bent down to get chips, they are in a box under the cabinents, my DD said she was laying there and heard bf say oops, I guess BF, who mt middle DD says panties show a great deal with BF, is bent down, she has a very thin waist.
I'm wondering if the pants did actually slip to some degree (A girl who's panties generally show doesn't say 'oops' when it happens -- and your DD had her eyes closed and wouldn't have known.)

I'm also wondering whether the boys in question actually made any "accusation" or simply reported (in an overstated way) that they had seen a young woman with her undergarments exposed. They may have simply described the situation as the perceived it (given a short glimpse and a pre-pubescent mind).

I know, with your level of distress, that it seems like an adversarial situation, where you have the sensation that your DD is in need of protection from a source of harm. It can be hard to remember that there is no need for a situation like this to have 'sides'. Most people are just doing what seemed best at the time... and maybe the boys were sensationalizing... but, all things considered, I think that the situation will be fine.



kohls356 -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 5:07:18 PM)

I am glad that things sound like they are working out and that people know that what your daughter and her friend were being accused of did not happen. I do think something should have been discussed but the leaders went about it totally wrong. They should have never took your daughter and her friend aside like they did and speak to them like that having them in tears. The "accusation" to me is very serious and before one word was spoke to them they should have got you and your husband.

I kind of had a similar situation with someone speaking to my child when they shouldn't have.

The pastors wife of our former church didn't approve of the clothes that my daughter wore. I bought my daughter's clothes and there was nothing wrong with them, I don't buy my children immodest clothing. I just don't require my children to dress in prairie dresses and buy shorts from the boys department like she did her daughters. So instead of coming to me and talking to me about my daughter, she took her into a room and proceeded to tell her that she dressed inappropriately and that she would never allow her daughters to look the way my daughter does. My daughter told her that we had just gone shopping and that I had helped her pick the clothes out. She said that it was a good thing she wasn't her daughter. My daughter was in tears by the time this woman was done with her. This happend after a meeting for a mission trip so she did this on a night I wasn't there, because she knew she would not want to deal with me after what she did, but my husband was and when he found out what happened he did talk to the pastors wife. There was never an attempt to talk to me though and discuss what happened.

If someone has a problem with my children they are more than welcome to come discuss the situation with me but I will not tolerate anyone talking to my children the way this woman talked to my daughter and have her in tears. We left that church not just because of this incident but because of other things that had happened. This was just the last straw.



csl7037 -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 5:30:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Pastor said since childrens pastor recently foster cares for this little boy, who has been abused he has noticed two or three times, she is very hypersensative and made several comments about other, things relating to sexual things, and he acted like they were unfounded, not to do with DD.


I think he needs more than a new policy. If this woman's perspective has been skewed by what she's dealing with with the foster child, it needs to be addressed directly.



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 6:22:20 PM)

Thanks everyone, one of my main problems is other members of church were hearing the loud conversation. Just as Childrens pastor wants to believe son, I believe my daughter. I did not believe her blindly, I left and prayed when I got the feeling in my heart with the question/ Did anyone see anything sexual? No they did not. The OOPs was not from falling pants, it was dropping the chips in a box ( a small cardboard box filled with small bag of chips) I mean why would DD BF be not even near her with pants pulled downm wouldn't panties be down, and close contact with my fully dressed daughter who was yards away laying on sofa, with soreeyes closed. I felt sorry for DD best friend, and the childrens pastor keep saying loudly "my son said you pants were pulled down." No one question anyone but these two twelve year old boys. I stated I see more crack on my DD than needed. I am always on them for that one. My middle DD described panties of best friend she said they always say " The limited" a store. I agree Childrens pastor is getting to worked up with sexual issues according to pastor. She is a very good person though. I am wondering, should I speak about this to best friends mother? She will go off, sriously. They are well off and she is very protective of her child. I feel like giving her the churches number, I did not do it, and do not want to deal with it. I am happy that the youth pastor, and j-12 pastor said it was wrong, and youth pastors DD told the truth. My husband is very angry, as an elder, he felt why did they not come to him before children, and undermines his leadership abilities. Something he has to work out.
quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Pastor said since childrens pastor recently foster cares for this little boy, who has been abused he has noticed two or three times, she is very hypersensative and made several comments about other, things relating to sexual things, and he acted like they were unfounded, not to do with DD.


I think he needs more than a new policy. If this woman's perspective has been skewed by what she's dealing with with the foster child, it needs to be addressed directly.



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 6:24:53 PM)

Wow, how out of line!where do people get off, I would never speak to a child like that. I am sorry for your situation. How humiliating for your child, and how undermining of your authority.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kohls356

I am glad that things sound like they are working out and that people know that what your daughter and her friend were being accused of did not happen. I do think something should have been discussed but the leaders went about it totally wrong. They should have never took your daughter and her friend aside like they did and speak to them like that having them in tears. The "accusation" to me is very serious and before one word was spoke to them they should have got you and your husband.

I kind of had a similar situation with someone speaking to my child when they shouldn't have.

The pastors wife of our former church didn't approve of the clothes that my daughter wore. I bought my daughter's clothes and there was nothing wrong with them, I don't buy my children immodest clothing. I just don't require my children to dress in prairie dresses and buy shorts from the boys department like she did her daughters. So instead of coming to me and talking to me about my daughter, she took her into a room and proceeded to tell her that she dressed inappropriately and that she would never allow her daughters to look the way my daughter does. My daughter told her that we had just gone shopping and that I had helped her pick the clothes out. She said that it was a good thing she wasn't her daughter. My daughter was in tears by the time this woman was done with her. This happend after a meeting for a mission trip so she did this on a night I wasn't there, because she knew she would not want to deal with me after what she did, but my husband was and when he found out what happened he did talk to the pastors wife. There was never an attempt to talk to me though and discuss what happened.

If someone has a problem with my children they are more than welcome to come discuss the situation with me but I will not tolerate anyone talking to my children the way this woman talked to my daughter and have her in tears. We left that church not just because of this incident but because of other things that had happened. This was just the last straw.



kohls356 -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 10:56:11 PM)

"How humiliating for your child, and how undermining of your authority."


Those two things were the very reasons that made us realize we had to leave, humiliating our daughter and undermining our authority. It wasn't the first time that the pastors wife had taken it upon herself to make little comments, she just went way too far that time. It also wasn't long after that someone else left because she had taken another child aside. It is a small church and unfortunately when it came to the pastor and his family it was their way or the highway. We finally chose the highway.



Memaw. -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 11:07:02 PM)

Light,
Is this the same church you have had problems with before?



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 11:23:01 PM)

Yes, I do not know how to handle this one, the way Christ would. What is the right thing to do? i feel so lost, I love my church and I have aposition as well as husband, but love my child. Somebody please help me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

Light,
Is this the same church you have had problems with before?



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/15/2008 11:31:22 PM)

quote:


The pastors wife of our former church didn't approve of the clothes that my daughter wore. I bought my daughter's clothes and there was nothing wrong with them, I don't buy my children immodest clothing. I just don't require my children to dress in prairie dresses and buy shorts from the boys department like she did her daughters. So instead of coming to me and talking to me about my daughter, she took her into a room and proceeded to tell her that she dressed inappropriately and that she would never allow her daughters to look the way my daughter does. My daughter told her that we had just gone shopping and that I had helped her pick the clothes out. She said that it was a good thing she wasn't her daughter. My daughter was in tears by the time this woman was done with her. This happend after a meeting for a mission trip so she did this on a night I wasn't there, because she knew she would not want to deal with me after what she did, but my husband was and when he found out what happened he did talk to the pastors wife. There was never an attempt to talk to me though and discuss what happened.



Slightly off topic, but one of the many things I respect about my mom as a pastor's wife is that she would NEVER do that. She says she doesn't even notice what people are wearing 99% the time. If anything people criticize her (not about clothes, though), more than she ever does or would criticize them.



Kat_D -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/16/2008 4:36:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Yes, I do not know how to handle this one, the way Christ would. What is the right thing to do? i feel so lost, I love my church and I have aposition as well as husband, but love my child. Somebody please help me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

Light,
Is this the same church you have had problems with before?



Light, people are always going to let you down and disappoint you no matter what church you go to, but "iron sharpens iron" and it is God's will that everyone involved in this situation would learn and grow from it.

-Your daughter can learn that she probably shouldn't go in a room at church with no supervision

-Your daughter's friend can learn that she probably needs to invest in some higher waisted pants[X(]

-You can learn what not to do when handling similar situations in your ministry

-The children's pastor can learn that she tends to overreact and hopefully will handle something like this with more tact and discretion in the future

-The boys can learn that they need to be more careful and think before they accuse someone

You get the idea. While what happened was unfortunate, God can and will use it in the lives of all of those involved. All of us are works in progress and God isn't done with any of us yet. I would encourage you to forgive those who have offended you. The devil would love to use it to bring division, and I wouldn't allow him to do that.



lpt -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/16/2008 5:20:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Yes, I do not know how to handle this one, the way Christ would. What is the right thing to do? i feel so lost, I love my church and I have aposition as well as husband, but love my child. Somebody please help me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

Light,
Is this the same church you have had problems with before?



Light, people are always going to let you down and disappoint you no matter what church you go to, but "iron sharpens iron" and it is God's will that everyone involved in this situation would learn and grow from it.

-Your daughter can learn that she probably shouldn't go in a room at church with no supervision

-Your daughter's friend can learn that she probably needs to invest in some higher waisted pants[X(]

-You can learn what not to do when handling similar situations in your ministry

-The children's pastor can learn that she tends to overreact and hopefully will handle something like this with more tact and discretion in the future

-The boys can learn that they need to be more careful and think before they accuse someone

You get the idea. While what happened was unfortunate, God can and will use it in the lives of all of those involved. All of us are works in progress and God isn't done with any of us yet. I would encourage you to forgive those who have offended you. The devil would love to use it to bring division, and I wouldn't allow him to do that.


Kat -- excellent points. I think everyone involved is able to learn something, and grow in godliness.

Not to derail this conversation, but underwear is really meant to be covered by clothing. If it shows when you move, then your clothing is immodest, by very definition. Not sure how else to say that so that it might be better received. Hopefully it'll be received without offense....



buckifn -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/16/2008 9:35:24 PM)

imo it is not a child's responsibility to learn if a room at church is safe to go in or not. That is absolutely the church staff's responsibility and I would not be attending a church and taking my kids to a place that did not care enough about their well being to make sure proper supervision was in place along with other safety measures.

Regardless of age kids of the opposite sex should not be left unattended in the same room at church. That's just very poor judgment and is leaving that church wide open to all sorts of legal action.



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/16/2008 10:03:13 PM)

alOh these are two females, my daughter and another girl. My DD was compleatly underware covered laying on a couch far away from other girl bending over picking up chips, the other girl is very thin through the waist, and her underware showed as she bent down. They are 14 the two females, and the boys are twelve. The Childrens pastoer called me today, and it was wierd. I told her, I did not understand what was the big deal, and was she accusing my daughter of lesbian behavior. She got upset, and said the big deal is my son saw a girls underware. I said that the other girl pants slipped down, which I mentioned my middle DD, said she has seen it slip down alot, says the girl wers limited two underware or something. The Childrens pastor told me, that the other girl had called her son a liar, I heard the girl say. " My pants were not down they must of been dreaming." She did not realize ( the girl her underware were showing). The youth pastor and J-12 pastor have called an apologized the youth pastor backing up the two girls story. Both of these girls mine included are very emotionally hurt, there was nothing there. My DD called from school today crying about it, saying " Mom why were we treated that way, we are not lesbians" They were sugesting for some unknown reason there was a lesbiam act going on, form two twelve year old boys. My Daughter was far away laying on a couch, resting her red eye, in glasses, the other was bending down getting chips far away under a cabinet. Youth pastors little girl is very honest. It was like the Salem witch trials. pastor said the Childrens pastor told him three different stories, that is when he knew it was not true. How would you like being a little geeky, as some fourteen year old girls are, and a big scene in the hallway, accusing you of lesbian behavior. I have always loved childrens pastor, still do. my husband called ameeting for Sunday, he is livid still. She acted like her child was traumatized at seeing the bent over girls underware. I feel my DD and other girl are really more traumatized. Her mother the other girls mom is going to be more than livid, I am giving them Children pastors phone number. I see boys walking down the hall and crack showing all the time, I say to them oull your drawers up guy, and take your hat off. This whole thing is ridiculious hurting two very insecure little girls.
quote]ORIGINAL: buckifn

imo it is not a child's responsibility to learn if a room at church is safe to go in or not. That is absolutely the church staff's responsibility and I would not be attending a church and taking my kids to a place that did not care enough about their well being to make sure proper supervision was in place along with other safety measures.

Regardless of age kids of the opposite sex should not be left unattended in the same room at church. That's just very poor judgment and is leaving that church wide open to all sorts of legal action.
[/quote]



pbaribeault -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/16/2008 11:16:30 PM)

I'm sorry this is happening to your girl. It's so not fair... It's such a long way to get from, "Your DD was in a room where another girl's underwear was accidentally showing." to "Your DD was caught engaging in a lesbian sexual act." ---- The first may be true, but the second is baloney!



lightshineon -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/16/2008 11:25:56 PM)

It is baloney, it has totally devestated both girls. I know the girl did not know her underware were showing. She is thin waisted, and she does not realize it. They were far apart anyway, with my DD fully clothed, and no underware showing. It was Salem Witch Trials all over again. I could not believe how cold Children Church pastor was to me. She is always friendly, and cheerful. She was acting like her son had been molested, by seeing girls the girl and her accidental underware. Thank You pbaribeault.
quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

I'm sorry this is happening to your girl. It's so not fair... It's such a long way to get from, "Your DD was in a room where another girl's underwear was accidentally showing." to "Your DD was caught engaging in a lesbian sexual act." ---- The first may be true, but the second is baloney!



pbaribeault -> RE: I am so distressed. (5/16/2008 11:59:25 PM)

I imagine that the boy IS genuinely upset. Whether he genuinely thinks he saw more than he really saw, or whether he's just caught up in protecting his own behind (pun intended) since his report started the whole thing... I really feel for him too.

And I feel for the mom / children's pastor. If she really believes that she has 2 closet teenage lesbians in her ministry -- and if she really believes her son saw them in some kind of sexual act -- she must be at a real loss as to what to do! I imagine that she would have been cold to the mom who she would have perceived as so supportive of her DD, blind to her real sin and danger!

Everybody sees out of their own eyes.

The difference between a witch trial and what's going on here (other than there being no death penalty) is that witch trials were almost always started with malicious intent, not mis-perception. They are being stubborn about their accusation, not because they want to harm your DD, but because they believe that their POV is true. To me, that makes a big difference.

It might be time for a Bible study on "blessed are you when you are persecuted and falsely accused" -- because your DD is not going to live this down. The concept will stick with her peer group probably for the rest of her years of education. It's not fair, but it is what it is. You need to help her with some good self-talk and some social-situation scripts, so that she can maintain dignity and grace, as well as an independent and strong self image.

Something like, "Yes that little boy told his mom that he thought he saw us doing something alone in a room at Church -- some kids! You'd think he'd have noticed that we were on opposite sides of the room."



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