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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2008 3:05:24 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1277
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Let us be reasonable. Do not add to God's word.
As quoted earlier, Jacob said in Genesis, "of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."
That's scripture and has nary a thing about blood or produce.
He also married two wives. Should Christian men also do likewise?
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<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2008 6:00:15 PM
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jbbaab44
Posts: 479
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Let us be reasonable. Do not add to God's word.
As quoted earlier, Jacob said in Genesis, "of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."
That's scripture and has nary a thing about blood or produce.
I really have no time to respond to this but i gotta. here's a quickee. First, God just said to Jacob, "the land on which you lie I will GIVE to you and your descendants." Jacob responded, "of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
- Jacob was promising God a tenth of what God was going to give him (future tense).
- Jacob wasn't giving a tithe now. Nor is there a record that he gave a tithe when he met God later either. Unlike Abraham when he met Melchizedek.
- The tithe of the promised land was so important because this is what jacob's vow was contingient upon. Until the Israelites were in the land, they did not have to tithe.
- This is also why Israel could not give goods or money, they were not of the land.
- regardless of what people say as the motivations of Jacob's tithe vow, God promised the land and it was coming, so there was no bargain here. I can't bargain heaven with God for the tithe, if he's already promised me passage there.
-Malachi 3 you can see reference to this covenant" “For I am the Lord, I do not change(God is referencing his covenant) ; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob(Instead of calling them sons of Israel he calls them by Jacob's name).
Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them. Notice how Jacob is mentioned there and not Israel
Hebrews 11:9By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise
-Jacob's tithing vow was not just applicable to just Jacob, but just as the promises of God were passed from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob onto the nation of Israel, so was the tithing vow
Ps. 105:7 The covenant which He made with Abraham, And His oath to Isaac, And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel for an everlasting covenant. Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan As the allotment of your inheritance,”
The levites didn't receive this inheritance of land so guess what they received the tithe.
-You can also see the exact conditions of Jacobs vow included in Malachi 3 "Return to Me, and I will return to you,” Says the Lord of hosts."
“If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, 21so that I come back(same hebrew word for "return" in malachi) to my father’s house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God. "
Also in Amos 4"Come to Bethel(where Jacob made the tithe vow) and transgress, At Gilgal multiply transgression; Bring your sacrifices every morning, Your tithes every three £days Offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving with leaven, Proclaim and announce the freewill offerings; For this you love, You children of Israel!” Says the Lord GOD. Also I gave you cleanness of teeth in all your cities. And lack of bread in all your places; Yet you have not returned to Me,” Says the Lord."
Jacobs covenant included the same hebrew word "return" as in Malachi 3 and Amos 4.
< Message edited by jbbaab44 -- 3/11/2008 6:06:23 PM >
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2008 7:55:27 PM
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TTABTG
Posts: 12
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From: Minnesota
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Interesting article, Soxfan. Howsumever, John MacArthur cannot speak for what God requires of me any more than your assertion that I can't speak for you. Fair enough?
I think the bolded words are the crux of the matter here. God has required it of you. He has not required it of me. You have been obedient to that presonal requirement through the grace of God. I rejoice with you that God has so blessed you over the years. He is trully faithful in all things. We really need to "take no thought" as Jesus said, because He is utterly dependable to supply our seed for sowing and our bread for food.
2Cr 8:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2Cr 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
2Cr 8:3 For to [their] power, I bear record, yea, and beyond [their] power [they were] willing of themselves;
2Cr 8:4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and [take upon us] the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
2Cr 8:5 And [this they did], not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.
2Cr 8:6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
2Cr 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every [thing, in] faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and [in] all diligence, and [in] your love to us, [see] that ye abound in this grace also.
2Cr 8:8 ¶ I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
2Cr 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
2Cr 8:10 And herein I give [my] advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
2Cr 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing [of it]; that as [there was] a readiness to will, so [there may be] a performance also out of that which ye have.
2Cr 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to that a man hath, [and] not according to that he hath not.
2Cr 8:13 For [I mean] not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Cr 8:14 But by an equality, [that] now at this time your abundance [may be a supply] for their want, that their abundance also may be [a supply] for your want: that there may be equality:
2Cr 8:15 As it is written, He that [had gathered] much had nothing over; and he that [had gathered] little had no lack.
2Cr 8:16 ¶ But thanks [be] to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you.
2Cr 8:17 For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you.
2Cr 8:18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise [is] in the gospel throughout all the churches;
2Cr 8:19 And not [that] only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and [declaration of] your ready mind:
2Cr 8:20 Avoiding this, that no man should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us:
2Cr 8:21 Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.
2Cr 8:22 And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which [I have] in you.
2Cr 8:23 Whether [any do enquire] of Titus, [he is] my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren [be enquired of, they are] the messengers of the churches, [and] the glory of Christ.
2Cr 8:24 Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.
2Cr 9:6 But this [I say], He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Cr 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Cr 9:8 And God [is] able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all [things], may abound to every good work:
2Cr 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Cr 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for [your] food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
2Cr 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
2Cr 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
2Cr 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for [your] liberal distribution unto them, and unto all [men];
2Cr 9:14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
2Cr 9:15 Thanks [be] unto God for his unspeakable gift.
_____________________________
Hab 2:4 - "Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith."
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/11/2008 11:17:06 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 625
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Jared thanks for that info on Jacobs tithe,very informative indeed.Jimbo I've been thinking about you a lot lately,and pw31 as well.There is a lot to be said for personal truth.I believe whole heartedly that God has convicted you to tithe,and I gather that neither of you do so from a legalistic view,it's simply true for you.I have never had an issue with anyone who chooses to tithe,only those who teach it as commandment.
I think we've settled this matter everybody 
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 8:17:27 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1921
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Nor is there a record that he gave a tithe when he met God later either.
Genesis 31:13
I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and where you made a vow to me. Now leave this land at once and go back to your native land.
Just because we have no record of Jacob giving a tithe back to God I will "bet" you that he did considering God reminded him here of that vow. If God spoke to you to remind you of a "past vow" won't you take note and do what you told him you would do?
Now for a history background of the letter Paul wrote to the Corinthians. This was a CARNAL church. They were believers but they were very carnal. The should have been on meat but they still needed milk. They were extremely immature in their understanding of their "freedom" in Christ. Paul explains to them that their freedom in Christ did not give them the right to sin. Rather their freedom was in the fact they were not able to overcome their old sin nature and NOT sin.
This group has made a "vow" or "promise" to collect a very generous collection for Christians they did not know personally but were suffering in Jeresulam. The Corinthians HAD PURPOSED IN THEIR HEARTS TO GIVE A VERY GENEROUS GIFT...... BUT ...... now that it was time for them to be busy fufilling that promise they had become lax. So very lax in their giving that Paul felt the need to first write them a letter, secondly tell them how a "non-carnal" Church behaves and lastly he was going to send people before him to begin to collect that money they had promised so that Paul would not look like a fool nor they and defame the name of the Lord. The "purposed" in their heart is talking about when they first made the pledge a year before now. (did any of you make a pledge to God and when it came time to fufill it deside it was not worth wild or you looked for some "loophole" inorder to get out of doing what your purposed to do like the Corinthians did?
If you want to find someone group to "imulate" it would not be the Corinthians rather it would be the Macedonians who gave themselves first to the Lord then to Paul. You would want to see how "they" as mature believers in Christ lived and behaved. The letter to the Philippians is a letter to the Macedonians. Study that Chruch to see how mature - non-carnal Christians live.
8 I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.
10 And here is my advice about what is best for you in this matter: Last year you were the first not only to give but also to have the desire to do so. 11 Now finish the work, so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, according to your means.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/12/2008 8:27:47 AM >
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 8:26:09 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4973
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Let us be reasonable. Do not add to God's word.
As quoted earlier, Jacob said in Genesis, "of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."
That's scripture and has nary a thing about blood or produce.
He also married two wives. Should Christian men also do likewise?
Not that it has anything to do with the matter, but do you have scripture that states otherwise except for deacons or others that hold church offices?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 8:30:42 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4973
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TTABTG
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Interesting article, Soxfan. Howsumever, John MacArthur cannot speak for what God requires of me any more than your assertion that I can't speak for you. Fair enough?
I think the bolded words are the crux of the matter here. God has required it of you. He has not required it of me. You have been obedient to that presonal requirement through the grace of God. I rejoice with you that God has so blessed you over the years. He is trully faithful in all things. We really need to "take no thought" as Jesus said, because He is utterly dependable to supply our seed for sowing and our bread for food.
Thank you. That is exactly my point.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 8:30:43 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1921
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quote:
You speak of "precepts" in the Bible rather than direct mandates. The Apostles gave direct mandates for governing the Churches, daily lives of Christians, relations with the world, and relation to the Old Covenant law, and what is means to be an adopted Son rather than a tutored heir. I'll take those over ambiguous "precepts' any day.
Thanks.
Alec
Alec are you saying the Children of Isreal were "tortured" heirs because God commanded them to give a couple of tithes per year?
Maybe your warped view of the precepts of scripture come from your years in a warped church?
BTW be careful when you look for "direct commands/mandates" in "only" the NT after the resurrection. Because there is not direct command to teach that Jesus was born of a virgin in the NT. It is also never mentioned again in the NT other than in the letter to the Jews in Matthew and the letter to the gentile (s) in Luke. The same two books that God had recorded for us that Jesus said we should tithe. Not the term Jesus used...."should"....the same term I use when I teach the tithe.
I also believe the NT teaches us that "all scripture is inspired by God and is profitable" for telling us what is right, what is wrong, how to get right with God and how to stay on the right path. Had God only wanted us to obey NT mandates it would be a "legalist" point of view and it would also mean God is "wrong" to tell teach all of scripture to believers.
2 Timothy 3
3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
3:17
so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/12/2008 8:39:28 AM >
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 8:37:12 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1921
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
God has required it of you.
Soxfan,
God has required it of me as a teacher to teach the tithe principle.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 9:08:00 AM
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jbbaab44
Posts: 479
Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Nor is there a record that he gave a tithe when he met God later either.
Genesis 31:13
I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and where you made a vow to me. Now leave this land at once and go back to your native land.
Just because we have no record of Jacob giving a tithe back to God I will "bet" you that he did considering God reminded him here of that vow. If God spoke to you to remind you of a "past vow" won't you take note and do what you told him you would do?
Sure, God fulfilled one part of the covenant - "Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land", but this other part of the covenant was not finished yet - " the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants." There's really nothing to "bet" here. Jacob's tithe could not be given until God gave Jacob the land that Jacob said the tithe would come from. "of all that you give me" is referring to what God just promised: " the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants." In other words Jacob couldn't tithe on something God didn't give him yet. So i "bet" you, he didn't tithe when he met God.
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 9:16:40 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1921
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20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear 21 so that I return safely to my father's house, then the Lord will be my God 22 and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."
quote:
Jacob's tithe could not be given until God gave Jacob the land
You may want to "reread" the scriptures again. God gave Jacob more than just a few cows. This vow had to do with "all" God gave to him.
Genesis 30
41 Whenever the stronger females were in heat, Jacob would place the branches in the troughs in front of the animals so they would mate near the branches, 42 but if the animals were weak, he would not place them there. So the weak animals went to Laban and the strong ones to Jacob. 43 In this way the man grew exceedingly prosperous and came to own large flocks, and maidservants and menservants, and camels and donkeys.
Genesis 31
. 9 So God has taken away your father's livestock and has given them to me.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/12/2008 9:25:52 AM >
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 9:33:26 AM
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jbbaab44
Posts: 479
Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear 21 so that I return safely to my father's house, then the Lord will be my God 22 and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."
quote:
Jacob's tithe could not be given until God gave Jacob the land
You may want to "reread" the scriptures again. God gave Jacob more than just a few cows. This vow had to do with "all" God gave to him.
i'm just reading the context. Jacob's vow was in reference to what God just promised him. You have to interpret "all" in its context. Was Jacob meaning "all" as in everything he ever gets from now on? or did Jacob mean "all that you just promised me"? The context is pretty clear that "all" meant all that you promised me. If Jacob meant everything that God ever gives him, then its peculiar as to why he didn't give a tithe then, considering he was walking away from a whole ton of speckled and spotted sheep?
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 11:18:47 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4973
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear 21 so that I return safely to my father's house, then the Lord will be my God 22 and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."
quote:
Jacob's tithe could not be given until God gave Jacob the land
You may want to "reread" the scriptures again. God gave Jacob more than just a few cows. This vow had to do with "all" God gave to him.
i'm just reading the context. Jacob's vow was in reference to what God just promised him. You have to interpret "all" in its context. Was Jacob meaning "all" as in everything he ever gets from now on? or did Jacob mean "all that you just promised me"? The context is pretty clear that "all" meant all that you promised me. If Jacob meant everything that God ever gives him, then its peculiar as to why he didn't give a tithe then, considering he was walking away from a whole ton of speckled and spotted sheep?
I also have to disagree with you jbbaab44. Jacob did not qualify his statement and God seems to expect people to fulfill their pledges exactly.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 11:37:10 AM
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jbbaab44
Posts: 479
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I also have to disagree with you jbbaab44. Jacob did not qualify his statement and God seems to expect people to fulfill their pledges exactly.
Sure God gives us children, a home, clothes, good health, but how do you give God a tenth of everything from your health, your children, and your home? Jacob's vow wasn't in response to a realization that everything comes from God. His vow was in response to the promise that God just made.
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 11:44:30 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I also have to disagree with you jbbaab44. Jacob did not qualify his statement and God seems to expect people to fulfill their pledges exactly.
Sure God gives us children, a home, clothes, good health, but how do you give God a tenth of everything from your health, your children, and your home? Jacob's vow wasn't in response to a realization that everything comes from God. His vow was in response to the promise that God just made.
It was not uncommon for people in the OT to give their firstborn son to the Lord - or pay ransom for him (I think that was part of the Law). As far as giving a portion of time, health, home, et al, folk have told me more than once in this thread that giving back to God includes not just money but all those things and more. To which, I agree.
So I guess we're going in circles again.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2008 11:50:49 AM
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jbbaab44
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
It was not uncommon for people in the OT to give their firstborn son to the Lord - or pay ransom for him (I think that was part of the Law). As far as giving a portion of time, health, home, et al, folk have told me more than once in this thread that giving back to God includes not just money but all those things and more. To which, I agree.
So I guess we're going in circles again.
truthfully i love the picture of first fruits as our example of stewardship the most. it was the best, it was the first, it was the only harvest that was available at the time, so it is essentially 100% of what we own. Just like Jesus, he was the first, he was the best, and he was God's only Son, so when God gave, He gave 100% of everything He had.
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/13/2008 8:50:10 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Jacob's vow wasn't in response to a realization that everything comes from God.
False
quote:
truthfully i love the picture of first fruits as our example of stewardship the most. it was the best, it was the first, it was the only harvest that was available at the time, so it is essentially 100% of what we own. Just like Jesus, he was the first, he was the best, and he was God's only Son, so when God gave, He gave 100% of everything He had.
It was not everything they had harvested at the time. It was a portion of what they had harvested and the people could not partake of the new harvest until the FF had been given. It was a PROMISE offering......they were promising to give the tithe to the Lord from the harvest. It was as you admit the first and the best.
Jesus today is the first fruit and the promise of the full harvest yet to come.
quote:
i'm just reading the context. Jacob's vow was in reference to what God just promised him. You have to interpret "all" in its context. Was Jacob meaning "all" as in everything he ever gets from now on? or did Jacob mean "all that you just promised me"? The context is pretty clear that "all" meant all that you promised me. If Jacob meant everything that God ever gives him, then its peculiar as to why he didn't give a tithe then, considering he was walking away from a whole ton of speckled and spotted sheep?
You have no idea what you are talking about and is the reason it's a waste of time to discuss "scripture" with you.
20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear 21 so that I return safely to my father's house, then the Lord will be my God 22 and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth."
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/13/2008 8:58:55 AM >
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/13/2008 9:05:05 AM
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jbbaab44
Posts: 479
Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
It was not everything they had harvested at the time. It was a portion of what they had harvested and the people could not partake of the new harvest until the FF had been given. It was a PROMISE offering......they were promising to give the tithe to the Lord from the harvest. It was as you admit the first and the best.
What are you talking about? What do you think FIRST fruits means? it was the only and the first fruit that they could harvest so far. It was in late spring that they gathered the first fruit. It was too early to gather anything else. The tithes were gathered with the actual harvest in the fall.
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/13/2008 11:02:46 PM
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draexo
Posts: 697
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From: Saratoga County, New York
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
He also married two wives. Should Christian men also do likewise?
My wife would not like this
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TRUTH
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/14/2008 9:53:48 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1921
Joined: 6/13/2005
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And the LORD said to Moses, "Say to the people of Israel, When you come into the land which I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest; and he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, that you may find acceptance; on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the LORD. And the cereal offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, to be offered by fire to the LORD, a pleasing odor; and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin. And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God. it is a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings." {Lev 23:9-14 RSV}
Above passage deals with a one day feast.
Passage below deals with other first fruit offerings in general.
Deuteronomy 26 -
1 When you have entered the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance and have taken possession of it and settled in it, 2 take some of the firstfruits of all that you produce from the soil of the land the Lord your God is giving you and put them in a basket. Then go to the place the Lord your God will choose as a dwelling for his Name 3 and say to the priest in office at the time, "I declare today to the Lord your God that I have come to the land the Lord swore to our forefathers to give us." 4 The priest shall take the basket from your hands and set it down in front of the altar of the Lord your God. 5 Then you shall declare before the Lord your God: "My father was a wandering Aramean, and he went down into Egypt with a few people and lived there and became a great nation, powerful and numerous. 6 But the Egyptians mistreated us and made us suffer, putting us to hard labor. 7 Then we cried out to the Lord, the God of our fathers, and the Lord heard our voice and saw our misery, toil and oppression. 8 So the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, with great terror and with miraculous signs and wonders. 9 He brought us to this place and gave us this land, a land flowing with milk and honey; 10 and now I bring the firstfruits of the soil that you, O Lord, have given me." Place the basket before the Lord your God and bow down before him. 11 And you and the Levites and the aliens among you shall rejoice in all the good things the Lord your God has given to you and your household.
BTW there were some who gave firstfruit offerings who did not repeat the words mentioned above.
below copied from ChristianAnswers.net
First-fruits
The first-fruits of the ground were offered unto God just as the first-born of man and animals.
The law required,
(1.) That on the morrow after the Passover Sabbath a sheaf of new corn should be waved by the priest before the altar (Lev. 23:5, 6, 10, 12; 2:12).
(2.) That at the feast of Pentecost two loaves of leavened bread, made from the new flour, were to be waved in like manner (Lev. 23:15, 17; Num. 28:26).
(3.) The feast of Tabernacles was an acknowledgement that the fruits of the harvest were from the Lord (Ex. 23:16; 34:22).
(4.) Every individual, besides, was required to consecrate to God a portion of the first-fruits of the land (Ex. 22:29; 23:19; 34:26; Num. 15:20, 21).
(5.) The law enjoined that no fruit was to be gathered from newly-planted fruit-trees for the first three years, and that the first-fruits of the fourth year were to be consecrated to the Lord (Lev. 19:23-25).
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/14/2008 10:14:42 AM >
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/14/2008 10:15:15 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1921
Joined: 6/13/2005
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BTW,
Those of you who don't believe in the tithe principle do you also NOT believe in the first fruits principle either? After all it's never mentioned in the NT...nor giving back to God from the first of what he has blessed you with and not the "last and/or leftovers".
Do you recommend that I stop teaching giving back to God your first and best?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/14/2008 10:20:13 AM
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jbbaab44
Posts: 479
Joined: 2/6/2006
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Ex23:16 Three times you shall keep a feast to Me in the year: 15You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread (you shall eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt; none shall appear before Me empty); 16and the Feast of Harvest, the firstfruits of your labors which you have sown in the field; and the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you have gathered in the fruit of your labors from the field.
First fruits are the very first fruit you gather, before all the fruit is ripe. The end of the year,when all the fruit is ripened is the time of the fall harvest.
Ex. 34:2222“And you shall observe the Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest
Lev. 2:14‘If you offer a grain offering of your firstfruits to the Lord, you shall offer for the grain offering of your firstfruits green heads of grain roasted on the fire, grain beaten from full heads.
grain is not green in the fall harvest.
Num 18:13 Whatever first ripe fruit is in their land, which they bring to the Lord, shall be yours. Everyone who is clean in your house may eat it.
Whatever is ripe first. Is the first of what you reap. You don't reap a whole harvest until the whole harvest is ripe.
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/14/2008 10:21:44 AM
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jbbaab44
Posts: 479
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Those of you who don't believe in the tithe principle do you also NOT believe in the first fruits principle either? After all it's never mentioned in the NT...nor giving back to God from the first of what he has blessed you with and not the "last and/or leftovers".
Do you recommend that I stop teaching giving back to God your first and best? I didn't know only giving 10% to God is a principle? In that case i guess we should teach 10% stewardship.
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Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/14/2008 10:44:59 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1921
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
First fruits are the very first fruit you gather, before all the fruit is ripe. The end of the year,when all the fruit is ripened is the time of the fall harvest.
ROFL again you are incorrect. I won't explain to you how crops grow nor the number of differant crops they grew over the course of a year. Here where I live we have three times a year when we harvest differant crops. Do you know when the dill and mint were harvested? What about barley? Wheat? Grapes? The list can be rather long.
As the passages posted earlier who they only gave a 'Portion" of what they gathered as the first fruits offering. In some Jewish religious works along with something mentioned in Josephus works can find what was the customary amounts given as the first fruits offering and no where do we find it was 100%.
I will say this for others. Don't confuse the "firstfruits offering" with the "feast of the firstfruits".
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Those of you who don't believe in the tithe principle do you also NOT believe in the first fruits principle either? After all it's never mentioned in t | | |
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