RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread

RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Life] >> Finances

Message

IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/14/2008 5:07:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: P31W quote: Also. I have a question - we are promised that God will supply all our needs according to his riches in glory,, but it does not say "according to his riches in glory if we tithe" how do you reconcile that? it seems God will take care of our needs whether or not we tithe. I hope you notice that both Jimbo and I responded to you above. Let me ask you something? Why are you asking us this? What other disciplines of the faith could you have used in the place of the word tithe? What about praying, witnessing, worship, gratitude, contentment, sharing with the poor and needy, and so on. Why do you connect that with "just" giving back 10% and not giving more than a tithe? Are you wanting to test God to see if he will meet your needs if you don't tithe? He will but he will not necessarily bless you with more. Remember the parable of the stweards. The faithful steward was given more responsibility (blessing) the unfaithful had what little he did have taken away from him. trutfully im asking because im having a crisis, which i outlined in another post, and im just kinda going over a few things that popped into my mind. i've got another concern .. also i was reading some stuff on the internet about tithing which is far worse than anything written here. im not looking for a word of faith prosperity blessing, i know God will - and has - taken care of me a lot, it just hard this week... but God will get me thru. i dont see the end, but He will do it, im sure. I gotta get this debt down!! ((kids college expenses, car repair, dental, etc.. not a lot of goofy stuff had to go on credit card))) i was hoping to keep my tithe and give God an iou, but oh well ,, bad idea. I thoguht it was my way out of this debt. i suddently got really fearful of the upcoming economy... i dont know what will happen, im scared to go into a new presidency with debt. i just got scared.

SamsonUSA -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/14/2008 7:24:51 PM)
I'm sure this has already been mentioned in this thread elsewhere, but it is impossible to out give God. Since He is Lord and Creator He doesn't NEED our money. The story of the rich young ruler shows where his heart was and that that his love of money was far more so than his love and want to live a godly life by following the Lords directives. I don't tithe in order to receive blessings back ( but won't turn any away!) , I tithe because it is commanded by God in scripture and I try to live my life as an obedient servant of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And as much as it may hurt in these tough economic times to invest in the Kingdom I have found that when giving God the first fruits BEFORE paying my bills that I have never been short, NOT EVEN ONCE. Praise be to God!

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 8:11:06 AM)
quote: i just got scared. I have some verses for you to cling to. Gone to get them. Whenever I realize that I have allowed satan to snatch away the "truth". I stop and write down this verse and put it in several key locations throught out my home, work area and car. For me being worried can become a habit or being uncontent can be a habit that I know has to be dealt with quickly. So when those types of things come into my mind I begin to say "out loud" STOP!!!! Then I say this verse almost like a prayer. Php 4:8 Fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable and right. Think about things that are pure and lovely and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Also when worry comes into play "prayer" is a huge thing for me. It calms me down and help me refocuse on our Great and Mighty God and his extreme love for me. His care and concern for me. _______ For me I am also a pro-active type of person and from what i have read so are you. It appears to me that you have a plan to get out of debt and are working it. Be patient. God promises us "there is profit in ALL labor"....working your plan and being patient is work!!!! Don't grow weary in it. In time you will see a blessing.

Soxfan -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 9:21:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA And as much as it may hurt in these tough economic times to invest in the Kingdom I have found that when giving God the first fruits BEFORE paying my bills that I have never been short, NOT EVEN ONCE. Praise be to God! And as much as it may hurt in these tough economic times to invest in the Kingdom I have found that when giving God as the Holy Spirit leads me, that I have never been short, NOT EVEN ONCE. Praise be to God!

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 9:31:51 AM)
Most people who don't believe in the tithe only give 2.5% of their income to ANY charity including back to God. I wonder why their spirit leads them to give the exact same amount to God and Chairty that the average lost American gives. They look just alike in their giving. You cannot tell them apart by looking at their giving record.

JimboFletch -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 11:50:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Soxfan ...as the Holy Spirit leads me... I asked, but you never gave me any scripture that says that is how God expects us to give normally and locally. Some talk, but no scripture. The only place I've seen that as a guideline has been to foreign missions. Yeah, I know I've said that before but you continue to make that statement without contextually appropriate scriptural support. If anything, Christ raised the bar for our giving back from the wealth He has entrusted us with as stewards.

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 12:02:34 PM)
quote: ok i dont know if thats a co-incidence, with the tithe, but when i got off the phone i went to the photocpier room and a peace flowed over me and God let me know he did that for me. I was so ashamed i doubted God at first. I just saw this post from the other page. You are not alone. I don't believe there is one person on here who has not struggled and still struggle from time to time with giving the tithe as it comes in or telling God - let me wait just another week/month or whatever and then once "I" get through this financial struggle I will make it up. Like you after the crisis once we have tithed what more times than not happens? God steps in and does what "we cannot do' just to show himself to us. Many people fail to realize that God showing himself to us like that "is" a blessing. It's that peace blessing you described above. Our God is good and faithful. He promises to meet our need....more time than not our need is to "see Him" work in our life and feel that "peace" that only He is able to give. [:D] Thanks for your testimoney. I think many of us are praising God right now for your testimoney.

JimboFletch -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 12:15:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Soxfan "This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon You seem to like Spurgeon (as do I). Have you read his sage thoughts on the matter? "We cannot expect to prosper if we are dishonest to the Lord. He can easily enough measure back to us as we measure out to Him. Hence, happy are they who, being saved by grace, bring Him all their tithes, for peace and prosperity shall be their portion." -C.H. Spurgeon (Spurgeon, from a youth offered back a tenth to God, but later began to give a fifth.) I know, I know, he's just a man. But still, a bit more trustworthy than many johny-come-latelies....

IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/15/2008 12:47:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: P31W quote: ok i dont know if thats a co-incidence, with the tithe, but when i got off the phone i went to the photocpier room and a peace flowed over me and God let me know he did that for me. I was so ashamed i doubted God at first. I just saw this post from the other page. You are not alone. I don't believe there is one person on here who has not struggled and still struggle from time to time with giving the tithe as it comes in or telling God - let me wait just another week/month or whatever and then once "I" get through this financial struggle I will make it up. Like you after the crisis once we have tithed what more times than not happens? God steps in and does what "we cannot do' just to show himself to us. Many people fail to realize that God showing himself to us like that "is" a blessing. It's that peace blessing you described above. Our God is good and faithful. He promises to meet our need....more time than not our need is to "see Him" work in our life and feel that "peace" that only He is able to give. [:D] Thanks for your testimoney. I think many of us are praising God right now for your testimoney. oh wow! thats right! if this didn't happen i would not have had a testimony. by the way, i dont believe in the WOF name it and claim it junk. and I dont feel like I should make demands on God or use the Scriptures to demand God do things my way... I just know God is taking care of things everyday like he did when he sent daily manna to the Israelites. i didn't know how he would take care of my own situation at first , it seemed hopeless, it really did. I just broke down last thursday at the end of my rope. but now, everything looks like i can see the light at the end of the tunnel - one day at a time. for God to take me from despair to feeling like I'll make it ok and not sink, was a miracle for sure :)

Annie64 -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/17/2008 4:41:36 AM)
You have a great testimony! Thanks for sharing it. I have a story to share, too. It covers a longer period of time, and doesn't involve an actual crisis, but it's pretty awesome, I think. Toward the beginning of 2007, my husband and I were looking at and praying about the possibility of my going back to work and putting our kids in a Christian school, as opposed to the homeschooling we were doing. Shortly after we checked with the school where we wanted to enroll them, and where my daughter especially wanted to go, and found out what the tuition would be, we got our yearly report the church always gives us on our giving. To my surprise, our total giving was approximately the same as the tuition for the two children we wanted to enroll. The thought briefly crossed my mind, "If we didn't tithe, I wouldn't have to go back to work." That was only a brief thought. I didn't really entertain it. After a five month employment roller coaster, I didn't get just any job, but the exact one I wanted. I wanted to go back to the job I had before I quit to homeschool, but didn't expect them to rehire me since I had quit twice before. (I had tried to go back once before, while I was still homeschooling, and found it too difficult to work while trying to homeschool. I know some people do it, but I couldn't.) And at the beginning, they didn't have any openings anyway. When I did get the job, it happened in such a way that it was completely clear that God gave it to me. So the kids got to go to their school for the 2007-2008 school year, and it was a great move for our family, for the most part. Then came last spring, when the last thing we expected came on us. My husband, along with 300 of his co-workers, was called to a meeting and told that their department was being sent to Germany and they would all be losing their jobs within six months to three years. Because we didn't know what would happen, we made plans not to send the kids back to their school, which my daughter especially loved, and to bring them back to homeschool. The only way this could be prevented was for my husband to be able to change jobs within his company before the end of July (first month's tuition was due at the beginning of August, and we needed to have made our decision by then.) We didn't see how it would be possible for him to make such a move within such a short period of time, with so many others looking to do the same. If he got another job somewhere else, even if it was the same job, he would lose his seniority and wouldn't make nearly the money he was making at the company where he has worked for several years. Long story short, he was able to move to a new job within the company over the summer and the kids went back to their school with no interruption. What if we had yielded to the temptation to stop tithing, to use our tithes to pay for our kids' school? After all, we could have argued, it was a Christian school we'd be supporting with that money. I can't be certain of this, of course, but my guess is that whenever I did decide to go back to work, I wouldn't have gotten my old job back that I liked so much. Nor would my husband have been able to change jobs in the company in time so we could know he had a stable job and could send our kids back to their school. And maybe the school itself wouldn't have proven a blessing. I really believe that we were blessed because we tithed. This was not a need. This was a luxury for us, to send our kids to Christian school. It's true that we do it because we want our kids to have a Christian education, and want to honor God with what our kids are taught, but still, private school is a luxury. God didn't have to do this for us. Not that He has to do anything for us. Jesus already gave His life for us. My question to those who don't believe in tithing is this: why not tithe? Isn't it possible to not have to do it, but do it anyway to honor God, and because you are grateful to Him? God has given me so much more than I deserve, so much more than I have any right to expect. What's ten percent compared with what Jesus did on the cross?

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/17/2008 8:41:10 AM)
Annie64, Thank you for that Annie. I sure needed to hear your testimoney. I have been disturbed here lately on the forum because so many people live in such economic fear that I see them desiring to vote for a man whom they know is pro abortion and homosexuality. (two no brainers in the christian community) I have even been praying about their desire to seek refuge in money over their desire to simply obey God and let him provide for their needs. Then it hit me. These people don't trust God. They have not been taking the steps one day at a time that would allow them to trust God as some of us do. They rely on their own power and understanding. Several Christians have told me they don't care about abortion they care about feeding their children even though they have yet to miss a meal. Some have told me the bible's ways are outdated cannot be obeyed in todays world. These are believers!!!! More of us need to be standing up as you and ImaChristian is to more people and be encouraging them to put feet to their faith inorder for them to grow. Thanks you both again for your testimoneys. I needed to hear them both!

Soxfan -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/17/2008 8:41:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Annie64 My question to those who don't believe in tithing is this: why not tithe? Because it is not the model for giving outlined in the NT quote: Isn't it possible to not have to do it, but do it anyway to honor God, and because you are grateful to Him? My giving far exceeds that of a tithe, and is completely done as an act of worship and gratitude. quote: What's ten percent compared with what Jesus did on the cross? I wouldn't know. I don't even take into consideration an OT law. Rather, my giving follows the NT model as outlined by Jesus. I don't itemize my giving

JimboFletch -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/17/2008 10:55:44 AM)
quote: My giving far exceeds that of a tithe, and is completely done as an act of worship and gratitude. SUPER!!!! (Me, too, BTW) quote: I don't itemize my giving [SCRATCHES HEAD] So how do you know your above statement is accurate?

IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/17/2008 5:37:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Soxfan My giving far exceeds that of a tithe, and is completely done as an act of worship and gratitude. That sounds like a "tithe incognito"

Strider33 -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/18/2008 8:13:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN quote: ORIGINAL: Soxfan My giving far exceeds that of a tithe, and is completely done as an act of worship and gratitude. That sounds like a "tithe incognito" There are really two discussions going on here, maybe more. One is whether any given believer is giving at least 10% of his/her income to a local church, or maybe some other organized entity that might receive tithes. The other is whether God's commandment of 10% (at least) is intended to apply to NT believers, in such a way that we can say definitively that a believer that's giving less than 10% is disobedient to God's will and is suffering as a consequence. My wife and I put a total of 10% into one of two collections. One is the local church. The other is a charity where my wife works as volunteer. I consider my wife's work as a volunteer to be more significant than the money we put in. However, volunteer organizations are certainly strapped for cash right now, so any contribution helps. Are we tithing? Some would say not, because the charity isn't a church as such, even though it's a Christian organization. We are open to God leading us to put in more. Is God correcting us because our donation to the local church comes to less than 10%? Not that I'm aware. What about the arguments in this forum that OT laws apply unchanged to NT believers (in this regard)? I find them unconvincing. The OT is relevant. It's scripture. But the new covenant is not the same as the old covenenant. And the relationship between God and us is not the same as it was between God and people under the old covenent.

Pamsy -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/18/2008 5:01:44 PM)
I am a tither because I decided to one day 'take the leap of faith' as I call it, and all I can say for myself is that after that God proved himslef faithful again and again, my income increased much more, and in the beginning, when I thought I would come out short, something lliterally appeared to make it work out.

pryze -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/23/2008 12:34:45 AM)
10%.... see, i understand what some of the others here are saying but I believe that tithing and offering is known for a reason especially in America... First of all we all know that it was first observed in the old testament.. and in the new...remember when the couple did not provide their complete share of their gain to the church and they were struck down dead beacuse of the amount of power in that church due to their closeness with god. Plus Christ never condemened it even to the point he acknowledged a old lady giving her last two coins of copper (100%) to the offering and willing to live by faith. So how much are we to be held to a diffrent standard,...honestly is 10% so much to surrender to the good work of Jesus Christ, I hope your answer is no. But I understand some of the anxiety this may cause beacuse I have been to churches that preach this 24/7 over and over and the pastor puts you thru guilt trips and so on and so on...THATS NOT RIGHT and I feel for you if thats your case but be strong for the lordis your strength...just put what you can joyfully and willingly give to GOD otherwise you are wasting your time and money on the air. check out this verse: 2 corinthians 9:7 ....see you should give as you have purpose to from YOUR heart not your pastors heart CHEERFULLY. so if that does not define your tithing these past sundays youve been wasting your cash...(cash you could have used for gas) look if youve been grudingly giving even your 10% pray for your pastor and pray for your self to have understanding in this matter so that your money will be a tool of the almighty GOD P.S. we need to be real... your church is a building with many operations, bills, and other expenses like caring for the poor and missions etc. those things cost money and as part of christ's body we need to adapt to the country we live in AMERICA...im sure there are other places in the world where they dont collect money for offering or use food and produce for tithing, but this is not a place like that so step up and be the Christ Like Christians we ought to be

IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/24/2008 2:15:56 PM)
ps - it is now another payday.. and I SURVIVED!!! God brought me thru.

JimboFletch -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/24/2008 2:25:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN ps - it is now another payday.. and I SURVIVED!!! God brought me thru. Praise the LORD! He is faithful.

Strider33 -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/25/2008 10:34:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pryze 10%.... see, i understand what some of the others here are saying but I believe that tithing and offering is known for a reason especially in America... First of all we all know that it was first observed in the old testament.. and in the new...remember when the couple did not provide their complete share of their gain to the church and they were struck down dead beacuse of the amount of power in that church due to their closeness with god. Plus Christ never condemened it even to the point he acknowledged a old lady giving her last two coins of copper (100%) to the offering and willing to live by faith. So how much are we to be held to a diffrent standard,...honestly is 10% so much to surrender to the good work of Jesus Christ, I hope your answer is no. The account of Ananias and Sapphira given in Acts chapter 5 is indeed instructive to Christians. But it makes a poor case for 10% being the boundary line between robbing God and being OK with God. In the first place, what Peter accuses them of is not stealing but lying. In the second place, it doesn't tell us what percentage Ananias and Sapphira kept for themselves. Was it 33%? or 50%? or 90%? or 92%? If God killed them because they kept back 92%, but would have been satisfied had they only kept back 90%, then it seems to me that the Holy Spirit would have led Luke to include the exact portion that Ananias and Saphira kept back. Second, if we want to use Acts chapter 5 as the basis on which to form a Christian community, I think we ought to look as Acts chapter 4 as well. quote: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his passessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought money from the sales and put it at the apostles feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. (Acts 4:32-35 NIV) This model is radically different from earning a paycheck, with deductions for income tax, payroll tax, health care, and retirement, and then contributing 10% of the take home pay. how many of you would be willing to join a community what was organized the way the apostles organized the community of early believers? Every modern community I have examined that was organized this way has been dismissed as cultic by the overwhelming majority of Evangelicals, myself included. But the argument for putting ALL your income into God's work is much stronger in the NT than the argument for putting in 10%. To be sure, when it's all put in to a common purse, some of it gets taken out for needs like food, shelter, and health care. It doesn't all go to paying pastors and meeting house upkeep and missons. quote: But I understand some of the anxiety this may cause beacuse I have been to churches that preach this 24/7 over and over and the pastor puts you thru guilt trips and so on and so on...THATS NOT RIGHT and I feel for you if thats your case but be strong for the lordis your strength...just put what you can joyfully and willingly give to GOD otherwise you are wasting your time and money on the air. To be fair, none of the people in this thread that argue that a tithe of 10% is God's standard have relied on guilt trips to get their point across, AFAIK. And the vast majority of pastors that preach in favor of 10% tithing also teach salvation by grace and not by works. So the guilt trip issue is separable from the issue of whether 10% is the threshold. quote: check out this verse: 2 corinthians 9:7 ....see you should give as you have purpose to from YOUR heart not your pastors heart CHEERFULLY. so if that does not define your tithing these past sundays youve been wasting your cash...(cash you could have used for gas) look if youve been grudingly giving even your 10% pray for your pastor and pray for your self to have understanding in this matter so that your money will be a tool of the almighty GOD I honestly think your actual position is close to mine. My position is the if you are giving 8% you should prayerfully consider giving more. Likewise, if you are giving 11%, you should prayerfully consider giving more. And of the percentage you keep for yourself, how much of it goes for what God knows you really need, and how much of it goes for things you think you need, but really don't need? While I disagree with Jimbo on the question of whether the 10% law applies to Christians, I agree very much with his exhortation to Christians to at least be more generous in giving than the unbelievers that live around us! quote: P.S. we need to be real... your church is a building with many operations, bills, and other expenses like caring for the poor and missions etc. those things cost money and as part of christ's body we need to adapt to the country we live in AMERICA...im sure there are other places in the world where they dont collect money for offering or use food and produce for tithing, but this is not a place like that so step up and be the Christ Like Christians we ought to be Here I agree with you. And beyond "giving enough" in cash, I would exhort all believers who read this to do two other things as well. First, get involved in volunteer work at your church, or at local Christian volunteer organizations. There are enormous opportunities to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and visit those in the hospital or in prison. The joy God will give you in the course of doing this work is beyond description. Second, get involved with your church's budget process. Most churches have a fairly open process of managing and distributing the wealth they receive. Many churches suffer from apathy on the part of the majority of the congregation. Apathy and ignorance are often a prelude to distrust and stingyness. As you get more involved, you will see more clearly what your local church is doing, and how much more it could be doing with more income. That, and the new heart that God has put in you, will do more to stimulate your desire to give than adherence to any rule!

buckifn -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/25/2008 10:51:27 AM)
quote: They look just alike in their giving. You cannot tell them apart by looking at their giving record. Their giving record is between them and God. It's not our place to judge...He sees the heart...we don't. If I tithe 15% or more and have ill feelings in my heart about giving it, what is the point? I'm stilll giving wrong. Also, if I give just to make my record look good I am wrong.

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/27/2008 8:18:36 AM)
quote: This model is radically different from earning a paycheck, with deductions for income tax, payroll tax, health care, and retirement, and then contributing 10% of the take home pay. That is not how I figure my tithe nor the way I teach others to figure theirs. God is to get the "first" from all that we recieve from him not the "left overs". quote: For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought money from the sales and put it at the apostles feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. The modle is not so differant for many of us. I have always sold items of worth when I did not have the money on hand to help my fellowship meet their needs. It's pretty common in the fellowships where I serve to do this. Selling property is not a big deal for us. To "hold on to things of value" when we see a brother/sister in Christ is what we consider to be "odd" in my fellowship. For us this is not cultish rather it's true biblical love......love in scripture is a verb. About a month ago I just to happened to "mention" at the garbage dumpsters that my butter beans did not make this year and that I was out of deer meat. The next day that person (who is in my church) brought me several pack of deer meat and a couple of bags of butter beans. Now I know of someone who told me their "okra" didn't make this year. I am currently filling for them two one gallon bags of Okra to suprise them with before soup season begins. For my fellowship we share and to not share is uncommon. quote: Every modern community I have examined that was organized this way has been dismissed as cultic by the overwhelming majority of Evangelicals, myself included. Speak only for yourself here. I am Southern Baptist as are the other fellowships I have been members of. I KNOW FOR A FACT there are currently two members of our own fellowship who are having their "timber cut now" inorder to have the money to send to the missionaries on the foreign mission field in December. What we do as a fellowship may be "odd" to the lost world but it's certainly NOT ODD to those who are in the Chruch. quote: No one claimed that any of his passessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. We teach in our fellowship that everything belongs to God and we are simply His stewards. God blesses us with more than we need so that we can be a blessing in His name to others. Sharing what we have with one another is a way of life for us. We cooperate with one another often for the benefit of us all in our fellowship. This Saturday we are working together to help our volunteer fire dept that our Chruch helped to form years ago. quote: Here I agree with you. And beyond "giving enough" in cash, I would exhort all believers who read this to do two other things as well. First, get involved in volunteer work at your church, or at local Christian volunteer organizations. There are enormous opportunities to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and visit those in the hospital or in prison. The joy God will give you in the course of doing this work is beyond description. Amen!!!! quote: Second, get involved with your church's budget process. Most churches have a fairly open process of managing and distributing the wealth they receive. Many churches suffer from apathy on the part of the majority of the congregation. Apathy and ignorance are often a prelude to distrust and stingyness. As you get more involved, you will see more clearly what your local church is doing, and how much more it could be doing with more income. Amen! Being a wise steward of the Chruches money Is an ACT of WORSHIP that many people miss out on and don't even realize it's an act of worship. quote: That, and the new heart that God has put in you, will do more to stimulate your desire to give than adherence to any rule! Amen. I believe because many Christians are not busy "doing" the work of God they consider giving less than a tithe "ok". When you are busy being the hands, feet and mouth of Christ you begin to realize just how important it is to cut your timber now, sell property or homes inorder to meet the needs that you know are great.

dovetales -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/29/2008 10:33:53 AM)
God owns all the riches in the world already, and He does NOT require that the New Testament church 'tithe' to a man [pastor] or a building ["church". He does tell us to take care of those in need however--and that can be totally seperate from any organized church [and usually is as far as I can see] I stopped tithing when I realized that the Old Testament concept of the tithe was being totally skewed by the modern day pastors to beef up their church funds which then were being used for all manner of things OTHER than those things they were told to use them for by God Himself. So relax and let your pastor rave on, or go somewnere where there is a pastor that is more interested in serving God than he is in helping God serve HIM quote: ORIGINAL: loveydoveysmom I guess I will put my two cents in here. To be honest with you I am trying to learn God's word but the "tithe" has always baffled me. To this day I truly don't understand it and really haven't applied it in my life. Our pastor(at the church I used to go to)has many times used the bible verse in Malachi 3, versus 8 and 9. "will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me. But you say in what way have we robbed you? In tithes and offerings." He speaks this before he takes up the tithe and offering. I felt terribly guilty. I felt like I was stealing from God. I didn't understand this. Eventually, someone outside of the church explained to me that in this verse God is talking to the priesthood of that time about stealing what the people gave and using it for wrong purposes. Is this correct? I'm so confused. Also our pastor has said that if a person is unable to tithe one week then that's okay because then they could just consider it "borrowing" the money from God and pay Him back later. Now I'm thinking....hmmmm....God keeps a tab! I got even more confused. Then there was the offering on top of the tithe. Then the Father's Day alms on top of this(asking people to dedicate one weeks pay). Then every once in a while he would ask us to give an offering to another pastor within the church. People would be walking up slipping the pastor a $20 or what have you. Then the day he preached before the tithe and offering was taken up about how he wouldn't attend dinner at a person's house because he looked them up on the computer and they weren't tithers and he knew they had alot of money. I didn't understand....I couldn't take it....so I left. I have read alot of these posts but forgive me if I don't understand alot of it. What I do believing in is giving from my heart. I haven't read anything yet in the new testament that speaks of tithing, only of giving. This is what I hold on to and base my giving on at this time.

DeeAnnBailey -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/29/2008 10:40:51 AM)
Personally I believe 10% is the minimum you should give and that is from your gross not take home. I won't argue it, but have peace in my heart about it. Now have I ever been scared if I gave I might not have food to eat or be able to pay bills - yes, more than once but God has ALWAYS been faithful. I have also given services or goods for meaning needs of others in our church or missionaries. I also give almost 10% to missions. Not because I'm righteous, holy or special but because I believe God has blessed me so I should bless others. Christ said 'I've not come to do away with the law but to fulfill the law'. The tithe was given while under the law. For that reason I believe the 10% is still relevent today. If you choose to disagree, that is absolutely your choice but it won't change what I do and believe. I don't feel forced to give, I feel blessed to give.

dovetales -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (10/29/2008 10:55:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Strider33 quote: ORIGINAL: pryze 10%.... see, i understand what some of the others here are saying but I believe that tithing and offering is known for a reason especially in America... First of all we all know that it was first observed in the old testament.. and in the new...remember when the couple did not provide their complete share of their gain to the church and they were struck down dead beacuse of the amount of power in that church due to their closeness with god. Plus Christ never condemened it even to the point he acknowledged a old lady giving her last two coins of copper (100%) to the offering and willing to live by faith. So how much are we to be held to a diffrent standard,...honestly is 10% so much to surrender to the good work of Jesus Christ, I hope your answer is no. The account of Ananias and Sapphira given in Acts chapter 5 is indeed instructive to Christians. But it makes a poor case for 10% being the boundary line between robbing God and being OK with God. In the first place, what Peter accuses them of is not stealing but lying. In the second place, it doesn't tell us what percentage Ananias and Sapphira kept for themselves. Was it 33%? or 50%? or 90%? or 92%? If God killed them because they kept back 92%, but would have been satisfied had they only kept back 90%, then it seems to me that the Holy Spirit would have led Luke to include the exact portion that Ananias and Saphira kept back. Second, if we want to use Acts chapter 5 as the basis on which to form a Christian community, I think we ought to look as Acts chapter 4 as well. quote: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his passessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought money from the sales and put it at the apostles feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. (Acts 4:32-35 NIV) This model is radically different from earning a paycheck, with deductions for income tax, payroll tax, health care, and retirement, and then contributing 10% of the take home pay. how many of you would be willing to join a community what was organized the way the apostles organized the community of early believers? Every modern community I have examined that was organized this way has been dismissed as cultic by the overwhelming majority of Evangelicals, myself included. But the argument for putting ALL your income into God's work is much stronger in the NT than the argument for putting in 10%. To be sure, when it's all put in to a common purse, some of it gets taken out for needs like food, shelter, and health care. It doesn't all go to paying pastors and meeting house upkeep and missons. quote: But I understand some of the anxiety this may cause beacuse I have been to churches that preach this 24/7 over and over and the pastor puts you thru guilt trips and so on and so on...THATS NOT RIGHT and I feel for you if thats your case but be strong for the lordis your strength...just put what you can joyfully and willingly give to GOD otherwise you are wasting your time and money on the air. To be fair, none of the people in this thread that argue that a tithe of 10% is God's standard have relied on guilt trips to get their point across, AFAIK. And the vast majority of pastors that preach in favor of 10% tithing also teach salvation by grace and not by works. So the guilt trip issue is separable from the issue of whether 10% is the threshold. quote: check out this verse: 2 corinthians 9:7 ....see you should give as you have purpose to from YOUR heart not your pastors heart CHEERFULLY. so if that does not define your tithing these past sundays youve been wasting your cash...(cash you could have used for gas) look if youve been grudingly giving even your 10% pray for your pastor and pray for your self to have understanding in this matter so that your money will be a tool of the almighty GOD I honestly think your actual position is close to mine. My position is the if you are giving 8% you should prayerfully consider giving more. Likewise, if you are giving 11%, you should prayerfully consider giving more. And of the percentage you keep for yourself, how much of it goes for what God knows you really need, and how much of it goes for things you think you need, but really don't need? While I disagree with Jimbo on the question of whether the 10% law applies to Christians, I agree very much with his exhortation to Christians to at least be more generous in giving than the unbelievers that live around us! quote: P.S. we need to be real... your church is a building with many operations, bills, and other expenses like caring for the poor and missions etc. those things cost money and as part of christ's body we need to adapt to the country we live in AMERICA...im sure there are other places in the world where they dont collect money for offering or use food and produce for tithing, but this is not a place like that so step up and be the Christ Like Christians we ought to be Here I agree with you. And beyond "giving enough" in cash, I would exhort all believers who read this to do two other things as well. First, get involved in volunteer work at your church, or at local Christian volunteer organizations. There are enormous opportunities to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and visit those in the hospital or in prison. The joy God will give you in the course of doing this work is beyond description. Second, get involved with your church's budget process. Most churches have a fairly open process of managing and distributing the wealth they receive. Many churches suffer from apathy on the part of the majority of the congregation. Apathy and ignorance are often a prelude to distrust and stingyness. As you get more involved, you will see more clearly what your local church is doing, and how much more it could be doing with more income. That, and the new heart that God has put in you, will do more to stimulate your desire to give than adherence to any rule! and so it goes.....

Page: << < prev 128 129 130 [131] 132 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI