RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread

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Jules Archer -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/19/2005 8:07:58 PM)
Is anybody here concerned about giving too much? You can't. Why doesn't anybody talk about that?

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/19/2005 8:13:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jules Archer Is anybody here concerned about giving too much? You can't. Why doesn't anybody talk about that? You can give to much.... Did Moses have to ask them to stop giving when they took the collection for the first Tabernacle? Yes... It clearly states in the Bible that they were giving to much. Obviously that was then and this is now. But.....[:D] We are called to be charitable and generous, not wasteful. Today however giving to much does not seem to be a problem. I like what ShadeIsHe post back at #122...

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/21/2005 5:33:33 PM)
To recap: OT tithes were instituted when the Israelites entered the Promised Land. Some say there were two tithes and some three... I believe the two tithe thinking makes more sense. So the first tithe was collected and went to the Levites. They in turn gave a tenth of it to the Aaronic Priests that served 24/7 at the temple or tabernacle. God set apart the Levites and Aaron family. They could not work and did not get an inheritance of the land when it was divided up between the other tribes. So they needed life sustaining income. It came in the form of a tithe of all the food crops. The Levites lived in various cities that were set aside for them all across the Promised Land and some that were across the Jordan were the 2.5 tribes stayed and lived in that area. The Levitical tithe was brough to these cities. Each area brought tithes to the governing city of refuge were it was stored and used for food during the year. We need to also remember that storing of the food crops was a necessity in this agrarian society. They could not run down to the corner grocery store. They had to store up the harvest for use all year. Levites also served as the governing body until the King was given the people. But in the beginning when Moses laid down Gods law about it they did the judging of the people, they sat in Moses seat. So the tithe was to support the Levites in their service. ------------ The second tithe (Duet 14) was stored up at home. It was then taken to the Tabernacle or Temple and used in a religious feast. It never left the hand of the giver until they shared it with all their family and the Levites that traveld with them. This wasn't a typicl family of five... This could well have been 10,000 people or more taking up the tithe and herds of first fruits along the Levites wiht their gates and the whole carvan journeying a long journey on foot and beasts to the sight of the feast. More like a pilgramage than what we would consider going to church. It also was done once per year except the thrid year. So the third year, the tithe was stored up "at home" as normal and the poor, needy, Levites and even the stranger that was in your area was treated to a share of this tithe. This was not a corporate collection and distribution, it was you personally seeing to the needs of those around you in your area. These people even included the strangers... But the emphasis as I can understand it was family first, which everyone in the area was... Because thats how they settled the land. Divided it up by tribe and a tribe settled in one area. So... God laid out the Promised Land, divided into districts or states. Set up the governing body in these districts and the system to fund that governing body. 10% going to the district goverment and each district sending a tenth of that on into the High Priest. He was the man in charge and sever 24/7 in the Temple didn't leave any time for earning a livelyhood any other way. Aaron did not pay a tithe because ther was no one to pay it to. The need did not exist. Each family head (Patriarch) also contributing another tenth ( the second tithe) to religious feast requirements and every third year making sure the poor and needy in His area had what they needed. This changed over time but this scenario is the start laid out in the Law given through Moses. What we today call a tithe is nothing like what is laid out in the Bible. Gods tithe was to fund and support the people as a nation. It more resembles our tax system than a church offering. An that is exactly what it was, a tax system of regulated giving that helped support the nation and make it strong. We no longer have a Theocracy or live in the Promised Land. We did not get an inheritance upon which the tithe was grown. God has given us our system and our tithe system and it comes off the top of each paycheck in a regulated fashion just as it did in the Promised Land. Enter here Mal 3 and the promise... Well... What do you suppose would happen if we all quit paying taxes? Total economic collapse maybe. But we do pay taxes and this has made the country/nation/people strong and prosperous. Offerings to God need to be from the heart and out of love. If your bringing in what you think is a tithe (or any gift) because it's required then you really need to stop and think. If it's born from regulation and duty and not from the heart in faith then it's possibly unworthy and unacceptable to God. If your a member of an organized congregation you need to step up and do what you can to help fund that organization in a manner that is equitable to all. However, tithes were never used for the purpose of funding organized religion other than the inheritance for the Priests which coorelates to 1%. We don't have this tithe based funding system today. So if your tithing by all means keep doing it, just realize that your heart is the what God uses to judge the gift and not the amount of it. I can hear it now... What about Abraham... well just because the word tithe appears in the text does not mean that Abraham paid a tithe year by year to organized religion and called it giving to God. I would think that he being the leader and Patriarch at the time took care of the needy and poor just as outlined in what later became the law. They did not become strong and gain Gods graces by not walking in the right before God in their daily lives. So next time I lead an army across country to save a brother, wage war and collect the spoils, then while returning pass through another Kings land I'll pay him a tribute of the spoils after he treats us all to a feast. Then upon returning the spoils to the original owner except what was the customary protion as pay for the army. I'll return home and be no richer or poorer than when I left. I would however share with those in need under my charge as the needs arrose. Abraham understood I think what Godly Stewardship really was.

silvrstridr -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/22/2005 11:04:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShouldKnowBetter quote: ORIGINAL: silvrstridr we already established its the heart that matters not the money what you posted just shows: Yes back in old testament tithes went to people, government, King. However, isnt that evident of today? Doesnt tithe money of today still go to people in need? How did the OT church purchase land/building materials/food for all these feasts they talk about? Tithes. Why does the Church get money for its building, the pastor get a salary? He needs to live, we need a place to gather. Times change, tithes don't. Your comment shows that you do not understand my point, have not understood the scriptures offered for the subject. How did the OT church purchase land? They didn't, God provided it a tithe never was use d to purchase land. This is a side issue anyway... building materials Well again the Bible explains this very clearly, they took up free will offerings and/or the King (Solomon) purchased the materials. Agian to tithe was never use for this purpose. food for all these feasts they talk about? Well here you right, at least partially. One feast was funded (if you will) by a tithe. Again this was posted earlier with the related scripture. But the tithe was never given to the church, Levite, Priests, etc... It was kept, transported to the feast site and eaten. I posted scripture that clear shows that normal daily church operating costs were in the form of a temple tax both voluntary and regulated also service of the Israelites who brought in wood for the fire by sharing the responsibility. It was again not a use of tithes ever... So since tithes "NEVER" were used for these purposes and God never changes why is it a valid use of tithes today...??? Well it's not and never was... This is a foundational issue however, because not understanding what tithes were, then how can we say what they are today. It's like a foundation built on sand. Again this is a side issue. The main point about tithe teaching today is a minimum specifically for church "Giving to God" that using the word represents. It is usually qualified with a list of requirements that the gift must meet, like going only to the local congregation, must be based on gross salary, etc... The implication is that those that do not meet the minimum are somehow less justified, ignorant, (pick a word) and somehow out of Gods Will. But God is all the while looking at the heart not the amount. Under most of this discernment everyone from Adam down throught the ages is found out of Gods Will. Because, not a one of them every tithed or gave to meet this made up list of requirements. so, How does the Church get money for its building, the pastor get a salary? He needs to live, we need a place to gather? Just as it's always been done. Gods people gather together and meet the needs. They take on the responsibility and give. The Apostles taught Spirit lead, freewill giving not once going to Mal 3 threatening a curse or laying the burden of a tithe on the church. They did just fine raising the needed money as is evidenced in the New Testament accounts concerning the issue. Just like Moses did when they built the first Tabernacle. There are organized churches out there that do not teach the tithe and they do just fine. It's true that God does not change and the tithe hasn't either... Gods tithe is nothing like what people try to pass tithing off as today. Go look for the answer to this question yourself if your really interested in the truth... Did Aaron and his family pay a tithe? Remember this is the only person on earth at the time that could go behind the veil and actually stand in the presence of God. Anyone else even approaching would die. Thank God that He decided to change that and we can each boldly approach the throne now. Look man, if you want to tithe by "bringing in the wood for the fire", go ahead, i'm not criticizing you. Fact of the matter is, most people prefer to just give money instead of chop lumber and bring it in. Like I said, times change, so does the way we tithe. quote: ORIGINAL: tfkeel Why does a pastor need a salary? I think the pastor should be the pastor because God calls him to be the pastor, like He calls us to be witnesses, deacons, servers, teachers, etc. and gives the pastor the responsibility to oversee these activities, and teach us to do them. We don't get paid to do the work of the church, why should he? The church building, if it really needs one, can be funded in no debt out of the gifts from the people of the church, including the pastor, the sunday-school superintendent, the janitor, and the altar-boy. In truth, for a lot of congregations, they could simply meet in homes and shuffle the responsibility around to different members to host the meetings. Then, the "storehouse" would be for those in need. You treat a pastor like he isnt human. I certainly know that my pastor would not be able to physically work a secular job, and be a pastor at the same time. He doesn't have time for it, he devotes his life to God and the church. He's got bills though, has to eat, has a family to take care of, and the easiest way for us to help him, is through church funds. like I said above, most people would rather just give him some money instead of going to the store for him and buy him food and take it to his house. The different church backgrounds are quite evident in this thread. I can see it just turning into a big church little church argument.... rolls eyes

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/22/2005 4:07:36 PM)
Silvrstidr quote: Like I said, times change, so does the way we tithe. You are absolutely correct you just don't understand it. That is what I've been trying to get across. We do tithe (in kind) today but it has nothing to do with churh. Time have changed and God changed them. We don't live in the Promised Land under the government set-up that the Israelites did. We have our land, citizenship and God Ordained required giving to that end. Disagree if you want, but at least offer reasoned scriptural based support for the belief or problem with my explanation rather than off the hip quips that serve no purpose.

Lapidoth -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/22/2005 4:10:30 PM)
amen silvr. All professions are (or should) be the fulfillment of God's calling on our lives. I remember when teaching school was a calling, not an """""underpaid"""""" [job]. Why don't the teachers teach for nothing like the volunteers in the schools and the aides? All I can see is either anger, selfishness, or ignorance of the way things are and are to be. I do know one thing that everyone who is anti-this and anti-that would be gone like a shot if their bosses quit giving them a pay check. In the book of Acts it talks about the earthly priests receiving tithes, but we have an eternal priest (Jesus) who receives tithes. For me, tithing is the acknowledgment and proof that Jesus lives. I don't have my Bible handy or I'd give you the chapter and verse. I am just plain amazed how we can all second-guess God's Word and claim to be the one who is right. is to. is not. is to. is not. is to. is not. ..................................LOL

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/22/2005 5:06:50 PM)
quote: In the book of Acts it talks about the earthly priests receiving tithes, but we have an eternal priest (Jesus) who receives tithes. For me, tithing is the acknowledgment and proof that Jesus lives. I don't have my Bible handy or I'd give you the chapter and verse. Could you be referring to Hebrews 7... Heb 7:1-17 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. 3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he abides a priest perpetually. 4 Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. 5 And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham. 6 But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham, and blessed the one who had the promises. 7 But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater. 8 And in this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. 9 And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes , paid tithes, 10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him. 11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of Him, NASB This talks about the connection between Jesus and Mel.. That earthly men recieved tithes... It does not state that Jesus received tithes or even asked for them. Also note a change in the preisthood requiring a change in the law. The word or concept of tithing does not appear anywhere in Acts or any other book of the NT except where Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for not knowing the weightier matters...

Lapidoth -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/23/2005 9:40:14 AM)
It was Hebrews. Thanks. There is one verse in Acts I was thinking about, but will have to dig it up. I still don't know why the big debate about tithes and law. I pay tithes, but not because of the law. I realize there are extremist on both sides of this issue. Satan can never defeat the 'church' but he can maneuver them into the ditches. Some on one side, others on the other side. If you give as unto the Lord, great. If you refuse to give as unto the Lord, great; I guess. All I know is the kingdom of God on earth does suffer because of lack of attendance, lack of giving, lack of witnessing, lack of (etc. etc. etc. etc.) So I guess we can assume a soldier of one can be more effective than an army disciplined. It's a personal choice how we each serve God. I doesn't make us right , but it's a choice.

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/23/2005 10:37:41 AM)
http://forums.crosswalk.com/Which_%22style%22_of_Christian_are_you_and_why%3f/m_402407/tm.htm Read post # 16.

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/23/2005 11:29:03 AM)
#16.... Well, true but if you notice I rely heavily on OT scripture for my discernment, SO did the Apostles and still they did not pull out Mal 3 or tithing out as a tool for teaching about giving in the New Testament Church. This is not an OT over NT or NT over OT topic, the OT is very good for discernment if use correctly. The word tithe comes up three times in the NT and 2 of those times (actually two accounts of the same thing) Jesus Himself is rebuking the tithers for making it something it was never supposed to be. They preached tithing as a mainstay and still were totally ignorant of Gods law. They lifted their ability to perform the act up to an indicator of their holiness or worth. They used it to gauge others worth as well. They were tithers yet totally ignorant of the truth in God Word... Do I need to repeat that? They were white washed tombs full of death mens bones, worrying about the outward appearance (the outside of the cup) and never once looked within. We don't need to repeat the same mistake. Giving can be taught effectively without falling back to the tithe. This has nothing to do with ignoring sections of the Bible. I'm still waiting for your definition of what you think tithing is and scriptural support for your stance...

Lapidoth -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/23/2005 12:13:07 PM)
Question? How does one give a scriptural stance when the other person disregards any scriptures given and holds to his/her own interpretations? My great-great grandmother was Church of Christ. I'm a church pianist. What did my grandmother think of that? Of the devil. Music can only be found in the OT. My favorite version of the Bible is the KJV. It can be twisted to say anything we want to if we choose to. The old english has many words with total different meanings than we have today. So we can expound on what it means to those who don't understand King's English.

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/23/2005 1:42:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: carlkeigley Question? How does one give a scriptural stance when the other person disregards any scriptures given and holds to his/her own interpretations? My great-great grandmother was Church of Christ. I'm a church pianist. What did my grandmother think of that? Of the devil. Music can only be found in the OT. My favorite version of the Bible is the KJV. It can be twisted to say anything we want to if we choose to. The old english has many words with total different meanings than we have today. So we can expound on what it means to those who don't understand King's English. That's a good question, one that each side can ask... For me it was learning to be open minded about a subject and seek the truth in Scripture and not wring a truth out of it. There is a way of propper Biblical exegesis and study that many don't understand. The best choice is inductive Bible study rather than what most put forth being deductive. Also, I go to other trusted sources to read their discernment on an issue as well. I've included a couple during the unfolding of this topic. These are not off the wall crackpots that I dug up somewhere on the internet. They are noted and accepted early Biblical scholars whose commentaries are used widely by many Pastors. Also I use more than one translation of the Bible. If you see a certain verse that is misinterpreted list it and we can discuss it. I do come across as believing what I write down here on the topic. But I do believe it to be correct and it's hard to come across any other way. If I didn't really believe it then I'd be a hypocrit.

silvrstridr -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 12:15:01 PM)
so, shouldknowbetter, would you post EXACTLY what you think should be done as far as tithes go, according to the bible, applicable to the way modern Christianity works?

Lapidoth -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 2:24:13 PM)
That's the same observation I have made with most of the topics in forums. All assessments could be made of each side by the other side. When I want to know about a topic in particular, I start with Genesis and read and study until I reach the maps. Then I sort the scriptures pertaining to that topic and come to a conclusion. Only when all the scriptures are in agreement with the conclusion do I conclude I am as close to the right answer as possible. If there are true contradictions (seemingly) with the scriptures, then I still have a ways to go to my right answer. Each of us are prone to search scriptures that agree with us instead of us coming into agreement with the scriptures. This will be a problem as long as we are in our mortal bodies. And we will only find a handful of fellow believers who believe the same things in the same ways. That takes going down the same paths. And to be willing to let go of the indoctrinations we have been exposed to.

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 4:40:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: silvrstridr so, shouldknowbetter, would you post EXACTLY what you think should be done as far as tithes go, according to the bible, applicable to the way modern Christianity works? Tithes are and always have been legislated (required) giving to the God selected recipient. They were collected at the national level and came right off the top of the increase of the citizen and were reconciled annaully. They had little to do with church operation. We all pay tithes today, they are regulated required giving at the national and state level. They come right off the top of our increase and are reconciled annually. Our God appointed recipient is the state and federal government. These funds today are use in a very similar manner to in the OT times under the Mosaic Law. Especially when considering 1 Sam 8... What we call "church funding" funds have always been freewill offerings from the heart as each is prospered by God to give, not of necessity (regulation). God judges the giver not the size of the gift. ..... So pick a point to discuss and I'll show you the scriptural support (again)....

Rufas2000 -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 4:48:04 PM)
quote: Do you believe I did something different than what is common practice in forums? Was there any impropriety? Maybe not on purpose but this is an unusual circumstance as you quoted someone but we have no way of knowing what the original poster meant. In the quote above any interested party can look back to post 14 to see what you meant. Nobody can do that with your quote because the post was deleted. In defense of your "little stomachs" quip: quote: If that's your perception of what I said, then that's your perception, not my intention. You don't see how that can sound like a cheap shot? Like you are looking down on those who are hungry? You probably didn't mean it that way but if you think about it you've got to know how that sounds. In regard to pride of one man who can do more than the church does: quote: Perhaps you would have a point if this were what I were trying to say. You might try reading what I actually said rather than injecting into my meaning of which there was never even a hint. If we don't support the church then who will we team up with? We can't do it ourselves and by and large I still have faith that the Church is the most effective unit in the Army vs human misery and that we should give it our time and money. If the particular church spends your contributions in a manner inconsistent with good ministry it may be time to look for a new church. I apologize if I took what you said and filled in the blanks with things that were not said. I heard it said too much from Christians that they know how to fix our broken world better than any church. Not that you said it. quote: We can collectively accomplish all those same things without having to own fancy buildings. You can't do many of the good works churches do without access to buildings. You could rent them but what if the landlord throws you out or you can't get an "exclusive" on the building? In many cases it is financially and ministerally (word?) prudent to own the property you use. Not all money that does not directly go to the needy is wasted. I understand your concerns. I'm sure many churches have luxuries as status symbols where they should be putting the money to good use but that doesn't mean that some niceties or ownership isn't money well spent.

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 5:14:36 PM)
quote: My great-great grandmother was Church of Christ. I'm a church pianist. What did my grandmother think of that? Of the devil. Music can only be found in the OT. Is this true? Church of Christ don't believe in having music in the church because there is no mention of it in the NT? I believe it was David who first added musical instruments into the corporate worship of God.

P31W -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 5:39:18 PM)
Rufas! You just made something hit me. When I give through my church I am able to take that off my taxes giving me even more money to give! Now that is a double wammie in my book! Give and be handed more to give! When we are faithful in little matters God intrust us with bigger matters! [:D] Sometimes he uses Uncle Sam to help us Christians give even MORE to his Kingdom's Work. Neat! Thanks for helping me realize that. quote: I still have faith that the Church is the most effective unit in the Army vs human misery and that we should give it our time and money. You are correct and the government understands this too! That's why we are allowed to keep more of our own money than others are!

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 8:29:32 PM)
quote: quote: I still have faith that the Church is the most effective unit in the Army vs human misery and that we should give it our time and money. I'm glad you have faith in the church, however http://www.usaid.gov/locations/asia_near_east/tsunami/ I just did a quick sum and tax payers through the government contributed $1.748 BILLION Yes Billion with a capital B, Billion... Remember our government is founded on Judeo-Christian values. I don't know if that counts the military effort? The church is just not equiped to handle things like that. This is another Theocracy filtering problem. Yes we are called to give and help the poor and needy and we should. We just should not discount the work done outside the church as if it is of no value or not sponsored by God.

Rufas2000 -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/24/2005 9:26:59 PM)
quote: We just should not discount the work done outside the church as if it is of no value or not sponsored by God. Clarify: I said most effective not only effective. Many secular organizations (including our government) do great things for those in need. I certainly do not discount them. But on a small scale or one to one level and especially when it comes to spiritual healing our many fine churches can doing the job like no one else when "in the zone" so to speak. Most secular organizations would be hindered by proclaiming Christ (like losing funding and support) but thats what the church is all about. Hope that clarifies a little. [:)]

4theLord -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/25/2005 3:16:21 AM)
All this subject (I have been reading everyday and I have discussed with two of my friends) have made me read the Bible from the beggining. Since the beggining of the Bible the giving is becoming a problem as Kain killed Abel. We hope we can not get to a similar point in this subject. God has put in my heart to give to my church always and I have tithed to thank God since I started to work.There is no better joy than to give in my opinion. I am willing to understand the concept of tithe but as I said give and you will receive.

mslaurie -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/25/2005 7:34:06 AM)
quote: You can give to much.... Did Moses have to ask them to stop giving when they took the collection for the first Tabernacle? Yes... It clearly states in the Bible that they were giving to much. How can you give too much? You can't outgive God.......

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/25/2005 7:55:31 AM)
Please don't do a shallow discernment on this and come out thinking I'm trying to tell anyone to stop or cut back thier giving. That is not and case. I believe it is important to understand why we give and more important to make sure we teach others correctly with emphasis on the right aspects of giving. True we can't outgive God, that's because we have nothing to give. It's all His, when we give we give FOR God. We submit ourselves a living sacrifice and become His agent. We give and work for His glory not our own.

Lapidoth -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/25/2005 9:57:27 AM)
Now we're back to the beginning. ROFL God owns ALL things. The tithe is the acknowledgement of that fact. From the last few posts it seems we feel more confident in our government to take care of everything and not be wasteful. I was just reading last night in my quiet time and ran across how it's easy to be disdained by the church (God's church) if we don't guard our hearts. These arguments seem to be based on that distaste for the church. That would cause me to re-evaluate and examine my own heart. I've been in a church or two run by a charlaton (sp) preacher. I just left that church, I didn't turn against God's church. If that preacher mishandled the money, that's God task to hold him accountable, which he did. He has been defrocked. But as a steward of the things God gives to my custody, I maintain the integrity of being a steward. GOD's storehouse. God set up the governments. They may be trying to dispel God from everyone's minds, but God did set them up. But they are not God's storehouse. We can twist the thinking to suit ourselves. God gives us that choice. God never made His plans and purposes obscure or difficult, man does that. We can sit in our ivory towers and dictate our own beliefs, but God never changes. His ways never changes. We can rely upon Him and Him alone to be faithful. As we read His Word as the words to His children, we can easily receive His meanings. I don't write letters to my children so they can't understand the love I have for them and the things I think best for them. Man twists and distorts God's letters to us his children. It ain't that hard. Just listen to what God says and flush what man says. He is marvellous.

shouldknowbetter -> RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread (8/25/2005 10:38:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: carlkeigley Now we're back to the beginning. ROFL God owns ALL things. The tithe is the acknowledgement of that fact. From the last few posts it seems we feel more confident in our government to take care of everything and not be wasteful. I was just reading last night in my quiet time and ran across how it's easy to be disdained by the church (God's church) if we don't guard our hearts. These arguments seem to be based on that distaste for the church. That would cause me to re-evaluate and examine my own heart. I've been in a church or two run by a charlaton (sp) preacher. I just left that church, I didn't turn against God's church. If that preacher mishandled the money, that's God task to hold him accountable, which he did. He has been defrocked. But as a steward of the things God gives to my custody, I maintain the integrity of being a steward. GOD's storehouse. God set up the governments. They may be trying to dispel God from everyone's minds, but God did set them up. But they are not God's storehouse. We can twist the thinking to suit ourselves. God gives us that choice. God never made His plans and purposes obscure or difficult, man does that. We can sit in our ivory towers and dictate our own beliefs, but God never changes. His ways never changes. We can rely upon Him and Him alone to be faithful. As we read His Word as the words to His children, we can easily receive His meanings. I don't write letters to my children so they can't understand the love I have for them and the things I think best for them. Man twists and distorts God's letters to us his children. It ain't that hard. Just listen to what God says and flush what man says. He is marvellous. Your assumptions are way past where they should be. Please offer at least one scripture reference for support of your position. Whatever the position is. Off-hand comments about another persons heart and implications of wrong discernment without proper scriptural backup are worthless. I supplied my exact definition of tithe, you have not. How do I know your discernment is correct? Just listen to what God says and flush what man says. I've been there and done that. That's how I got where I am. Try a scripture or two that define God's Storehouse. Since I twist scripture we need to here it from you.

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