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RE: John McCain - 5/30/2008 10:44:27 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteveSund
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
He's the Republican consolation prize.
This is true. Frankly, I am tired of the Republican party putting forth mediocre candidates and expecting every conservative to accept them just because there isn't a good alternative. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil.
It's not the Republican Party, per se, it's the majority of Republican voters that gave us McCain. He is the least like the typical Reaganite Republican of all that ran, yet he's the one that received the unquestioned majority.
Senators Obama and Clinton, OTH, both fit my image of Dems. Both scary prospects to me for the next 4 years and (in the courts) beyond.
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RE: John McCain - 5/30/2008 10:59:38 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
It's not the Republican Party, per se, it's the majority of Republican voters that gave us McCain.
{Ahem}-- I refer you back to post #25 at the bottom of the previous page . . .
quote:
Senators Obama and Clinton, OTH, both fit my image of Dems. Both scary prospects to me for the next 4 years and (in the courts) beyond.
Is it possible that your "image" of democrats is a little inaccurate?
Don't people from both camps (dems & GOP) span a spectrum? I don't think that there is a model mould from either side, albeit we all have our favorite icons.
I don't think that Reagan typifies republicans anymore than FDR or JFK typifies the dems.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 5/30/2008 11:06:47 AM >
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RE: John McCain - 5/30/2008 12:57:43 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 856
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From: NC via NY
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We need to keep in mind that there were a lot of "crossover" votes cast this spring, in both directions. I think maybe this is part of the reason we have McCain as our candidate.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SteveSund
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
He's the Republican consolation prize.
This is true. Frankly, I am tired of the Republican party putting forth mediocre candidates and expecting every conservative to accept them just because there isn't a good alternative. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil.
It's not the Republican Party, per se, it's the majority of Republican voters that gave us McCain. He is the least like the typical Reaganite Republican of all that ran, yet he's the one that received the unquestioned majority.
Senators Obama and Clinton, OTH, both fit my image of Dems. Both scary prospects to me for the next 4 years and (in the courts) beyond.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: John McCain - 5/31/2008 10:28:25 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
What, it's all a conspiracy by aliens that have taken over the Illuminati?
Humor . . . it is a difficult concept.
Did you read post #25?
quote:
Liberals hang out mostly in the Dem camp and conservatives with the Repubs.
And liberals frighten you?
"[...]both fit my image of Dems. Both scary prospects to me[...]"
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RE: John McCain - 5/31/2008 1:46:57 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 594
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
"[...]both fit my image of Dems. Both scary prospects to me[...]"
And liberals frighten you?
People who are liberal in there views don't frighten me (except the militant extreme liberals - they do scare me)
Most "liberals" are nice people, all about love, peace and let me do whatever I want but I don't want consequences. It's their policies that are dangerous. :)
btw, extreme neo-conservatives scare me too. But I'm for McCain in the "John McCain" thread -- now why are you here defending those helpless liberals?
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RE: John McCain - 5/31/2008 5:36:16 PM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LivingParadox
But I'm for McCain in the "John McCain" thread -- now why are you here defending those helpless liberals?
I am not defending anybody. I am attacking John McCain because I believe that his ruthless, capricious policies against Arizona's Navajo and Hopi tribes speaks volumes about his character.
I also think that he was a weak "hero" in the Vietnam war.
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RE: John McCain - 5/31/2008 7:23:46 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2586
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
capricious policies against Arizona's Navajo and Hopi tribes speaks volumes about his character
Links please, and not from left-wing nuts
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RE: John McCain - 5/31/2008 7:40:24 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 762
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:
I also think that he was a weak "hero" in the Vietnam war.
How so?
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: John McCain - 5/31/2008 8:10:51 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 762
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:
Contrary to popular belief, the U.S. Constitution does not instruct the states on how to select Presidential electors. Rather, this is a power reserved to the states that has been used in many different ways over the history of the nation. Electors have been elected directly without relation to a Presidential candidate, selected by state legislators, elected by district, and as is currently the case in all but two states (Maine and Nebraska), elected statewide in winner-take-all slates. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled in multiple cases that the state's power to choose the manner of selecting electors is "supreme" "plenary" and "exclusive." Several states have even cancelled elections, including Massachusetts and New Hampshire, when they were concerned that the wrong candidates would be selected, and instead appointed the electors directly.
Maybe I'm misreading this but I don't see how this states that the people don't select the nominee. All this says is that how primaries are run is left up to the state to decide.
The Primary
In states holding them, presidential primary elections are open to all registered voters. Just like in general elections, voting is done through a secret ballot. Voters may choose from among all registered candidates and write ins are counted.
The Caucus
Caucuses are simply meetings, open to all registered voters of the party, at which delegates to the party's national convention are selected. When the caucus begins, the voters in attendance divide themselves into groups according to the candidate they support. The undecided voters congregate into their own group and prepare to be "courted" by supporters of other candidates.
Voters in each group are then invited to give speeches supporting their candidate and trying to persuade others to join their group. At the end of the caucus, party organizers count the voters in each candidate's group and calculate how many delegates to the county convention each candidate has won.
As in the primaries, the caucus process can produce both pledged and unpledged convention delegates, depending on the party rules of the various states.
How Delegates are Awarded
In the Republican Party, each state chooses either the proportional method or a "winner-take-all" method of awarding delegates. Under the winner-take-all method, the candidate getting the most votes from a state's caucus or primary, gets all of that state's delegates at the national convention.
About the Primary - Caucus - Convention System
Sounds like the voters make the selection to me.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:05:25 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
What, it's all a conspiracy by aliens that have taken over the Illuminati?
Humor . . . it is a difficult concept.
Did you read post #25?
I did. It's apparently not nearly as impressive as you thought.
quote:
quote:
Liberals hang out mostly in the Dem camp and conservatives with the Repubs.
And liberals frighten you?
"[...]both fit my image of Dems. Both scary prospects to me[...]"
In the White House, yes. Like with Bill C., another Bin Laden may be ignored until it's too late or the Supreme Court packed with judges who feel an obligation to make law where none exists (legislate instead of interpret actual law).
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:21:37 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1817
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
In the White House, yes. Like with Bill C., another Bin Laden may be ignored until it's too late or the Supreme Court packed with judges who feel an obligation to make law where none exists (legislate instead of interpret actual law).
Sort of like how Bin Ladin has been largely ignored over the past eight years under George B.
And ultimately, you can have either Liberals clamp down on businesses or Conservatives clamp down on civil liberties. Only one of these two trends is reversable.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 6/2/2008 10:28:30 AM >
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:25:54 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Sort of like how Bin Ladin has been largely ignored over the past eight years under George B.
You live in a dream world or only consume liberal tripe.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:42:17 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1817
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Is it possible that your "image" of democrats is a little inaccurate?
Don't people from both camps (dems & GOP) span a spectrum? I don't think that there is a model mould from either side, albeit we all have our favorite icons.
I don't think that Reagan typifies republicans anymore than FDR or JFK typifies the dems.
I think the difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats are a whole lot less organized, but they also do extremely well in the midst of chaos. Republicans tend to be excellent at being decisive and having a good strategy, but Democrats tend to be good at appearing to be fair.
quote:
People who are liberal in there views don't frighten me (except the militant extreme liberals - they do scare me)
Most "liberals" are nice people, all about love, peace and let me do whatever I want but I don't want consequences. It's their policies that are dangerous. :)
I think that both conservative and liberal policies are dangerous. In some cases, it seems that Republicans believe that the government- and the governments' authority- takes precedence over civil liberties and human rights. I think most Liberals still beleive what Locke wrote roughly 300 years ago- that government exists to defend natural human rights.
The scariest thing for me isn't the gun-toting conservative cults off in Montana. It's the folks down in Texas and Alabama who think it's OK for us to kill a few innocent people if it means stopping the bad guys. It's the folks who think its OK for the President to tap my phone, find out what trades I'm making at the NYSE, and see if he can front-run me. It's the folks who think people who refuse to let the police do a random search on their person- when they are just out walking on the street- are somehow anti-American or pro-Criminal.
We can always undo attacks on the rights of businesses. If attacks on the rights of individuals succeed, however, I am concerned that the only way to undo those may be something similar to what happened between 1776 and 1783 in US history.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 6/2/2008 10:56:10 AM >
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:44:25 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I did. It's apparently not nearly as impressive as you thought.
It wasn't intended to be impressive; it was intended to be informative. Apparently, information doesn't impress you. I wouldn't be too proud of this fact if I were you.
quote:
In the White House, yes.
If the last two terms of the current administration wasn't enough to upset you, then I can't imagine what else possibly could.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:50:00 AM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Sort of like how Bin Ladin has been largely ignored over the past eight years under George B.
You live in a dream world or only consume liberal tripe.
Apparently, 77% of America lives in this "dream world", while the remaining 23% of people who still support Bush must live in reality. Apparently, reality means that, when Osama is hiding in Pakistan, we instead spend roughly a half trillion dollars (This would be roughly $1 Trillion if the federal government used the accrual accounting method like all businesses) to invade the wrong country.
I'm sure many members of the 23% somehow believe that this $500 Billion expenditure has helped us track down Bin Ladin. However, since I'm living in a dream world, I am having trouble seeing the connection between Bin Ladin and an expenditure equivalent to roughly 4% of our GDP on a place that is two full countries away from where he is actually hiding.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:51:39 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I think the difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats are a whole lot less organized, but they also do extremely well in the midst of chaos. Republicans tend to be excellent at being decisive and having a good strategy, but Democrats tend to be good at appearing to be fair.
Actually, Jimbo and I were refering to people who typify one party or the other. It is a little easier to generalize when it comes to what typifies one party or the other.
quote:
In some cases, it seems that Republicans believe that the government- and the governments' authority- takes precedence over civil liberties and human rights. I think most Liberals still beleive what Locke wrote roughly 300 years ago- that government exists to defend natural human rights.
I agree for the most part, except that I do not use liberal and Democrat interchangeably like you do. Nor do I use conservative and Republican interchangeably.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:55:37 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1815
Joined: 3/30/2008
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John Mccain is gonna be doing just like Hillary is doing now.
Wondering what ran over them. What happened?
How did that $%#@$%^@$#^ beat them?
I predict a landslide for BO.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 10:59:38 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Why should your "reality" impact truth as much as you want it to?
I am refering only to the "How It Works" quote and link. Did you actually read it or follow the link?
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In order from my youth until recent memory: Mired in Nam Johnson
He did escalate it, but he didn't start it-- unlike the current administration.
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then four years of Do Nothing Useful Carter
Carter's appointee to the Fed saved the economy, although it was Reagan who got to reap the fruit (and promptly spoil it ).
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and, finally, 8 years of the reprobate Clinton with the morals of an alley cat.
. . . And oversaw an era of a strong U.S. economy, a consistently bull stock market, and a fiscally responsible federal budget-- all things that we have definitely not seen in eight years.
As for morals, don't get me started . . .
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 11:06:04 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1817
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
In order from my youth until recent memory: Mired in Nam Johnson, then four years of Do Nothing Useful Carter, and, finally, 8 years of the reprobate Clinton with the morals of an alley cat.
Morals of an alley cat certainly beats the morals of Nixon that it appears much of the Bush administration seems to follow.
Back in the 1972 elections, Nixon thought it was hilarious to play a prank where they would call up and order 200 mushroom-and-anchovy pizzas for a Democratic fundraiser. Interestingly, between staging protesters of the Florida recount and outing CIA agents, the Bush administration's morals appear frighteningly similar to Nixon's.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 11:08:57 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
In order from my youth until recent memory: Mired in Nam Johnson
He did escalate it, but he didn't start it-- unlike the current administration.
I don't think that made a whole lot of difference to the 53,000 or so dead military that resulted.
You honestly get riled over the WMD that weren't found? They were FAR more likely to have been found in Iraq given their track record than the imaginary attack in the Gulf of Tonkin happening they way it was used to justify the esculation - which amounted to a whole new war from what had existed.
You either are too young to remember, only read the revised version of events, or choose to dismiss the facts.
BTW, how do you feel about the great liberal FDR's edict to segregate blacks in civil service facilities during his administration?
Libs have a very selective memory of their own past.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 11:12:05 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1960
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
In order from my youth until recent memory: Mired in Nam Johnson, then four years of Do Nothing Useful Carter, and, finally, 8 years of the reprobate Clinton with the morals of an alley cat.
You must have enjoyed Comrade Nixon's wage and price controls.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 11:16:19 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
In order from my youth until recent memory: Mired in Nam Johnson, then four years of Do Nothing Useful Carter, and, finally, 8 years of the reprobate Clinton with the morals of an alley cat.
You must have enjoyed Comrade Nixon's wage and price controls.
And Carter's double-digit inflation with single-digit military raises pleased you - not to mention 444 days of national shame?
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 11:28:55 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1817
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
And Carter's double-digit inflation with single-digit military raises pleased you - not to mention 444 days of national shame?
Most economists agree that the inflation was a consequence of Nixon's price controls and the end of Bretton Woods. Carter appointed Paul Volcker who eventually cured this problem- although he also sunk the economy while Carter was running for re-election.
Iran was a consequence of the overthrow of the country's democracy- a decision made by the Eisenhower administration. I respect Eisenhower, but you can't pin all of the blame on Carter for this.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 6/2/2008 11:41:11 AM >
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