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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 12:18:34 AM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 1348
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quote:
None of us have the power to block God's will.
From my vantage point. I don't see people obeying God 100% of the time. So, I don't believe that we can't block God's will. When we obey our own will, we block His will. IT happens all the time.
But let's not turn this into that type of thread.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 12:27:33 AM
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HisFish
Posts: 552
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
quote:
None of us have the power to block God's will.
From my vantage point. I don't see people obeying God 100% of the time. So, I don't believe that we can't block God's will. When we obey our own will, we block His will. IT happens all the time.
But let's not turn this into that type of thread.
Sorry, that just not true. If God tells me to do X, and i do not X, He will then get another to do X. There isnt one man, or multitude of men that can stop God's sovereign will.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 5:59:13 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1872
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
That...afterall is the end goal here...correct? Reconciliation? Or is being right more important than love?
Is it more loving to allow someone to believe a lie rather than tell them the truth?
I would rather someone hear the truth and be offended, than stand before God and hear Him say,"Why didn't you tell soandso? You worried more about offending them than telling them about Me".
Jesus didn't worry about offending another. On this very thread we have discussed this very thing. There is only one right way to spend eternity with Jesus. That message doesn't need to be dressed up for unbelievers. Either they will eventually accept it or they won't. Our job is to tell them, not convince them. If we change the message to make it more appealing, aren't we changing the message? Are we doing what He commanded? Or are we really just trying to appease the hearer because in the end it's "easier" on ourselves.
The message is straightforward and point blank. it does not need any help from us.
And again being right is the difference between eternal security and eternal damnation.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 7:55:36 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: online
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quote:
Is it more loving to allow someone to believe a lie rather than tell them the truth?
1 Cor. 13 says there is no deciet in love. This interviewer used deciet. He had an agenda. He did not confront a beloved siuster in the Lord to correct poor behavior. He exploited her beliefs for his own purposes. There was no correction. There was no reconciliation. This was a ploy, plain and simple.
Transparent..and disgusting.
I want to add I agree we cannot thwart God's will. However we can do things that keep others seperated from God as much as we can do thiugns that bring people to God. God does the saving...we kinda do the introduction, in a broad sence.
< Message edited by SonInMe1 -- 5/30/2008 8:02:03 AM >
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 8:07:59 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1872
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I just don't see the interviewer as having been deceitful. He brought to the attention of all the viewers the dangers of bad theology. Just look a few posts back at that theology. What if this girl believes that same doctrine? How many out there really believe that they are saved? He addressed a very important issue within the Christian community. The Bible does say that God will expose what is in the dark and bring it forth to the light.
What would have been the motivating factor of the interviewer? What gain could he have received from deceiving this girl. How can we say for sure that God didn't use this situation to bring her around to His reality, not the one she was living?
He exposed the wolf in sheep's clothing- the bad doctrine being swallowed by the gallons.....
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 8:15:06 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: online
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quote:
He addressed a very important issue within the Christian community.
Maybe..and that is a big maybe but the thing is, he did nothing for her but use her to further his agenda against some doctrine. Thats not love.
quote:
What gain could he have received from deceiving this girl
Exactly what has happened. He got his video viewed. He knows his audiance and made a video to appeal to them to further his agenda. That may not be too bad in a way, but it didn't do the girl any good...
now did it?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 8:20:07 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1872
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
How can we say for sure that God didn't use this situation to bring her around to His reality, not the one she was living?
We don't know what that interview did or didn't do for her.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 9:48:11 AM
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PromiseLander
Posts: 358
Joined: 1/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Yes, we have to evangelise. But the question is how do we do it? The woman in the video clearly knew the gospel. I'm sure she's been evangelize. I'm sure she's heard the gospel of salvation. The question is why is she responding to it the way she did? Why was she not open to talking about her "faith" or belief". I don't think it's the lack of knowledge about God or faith or Christianity. Perhaps, no one really engaged her in her journey of faith. Perhaps going to church and listening to a sermon she's heard a few times isn't very effective. I know it's the role of the Holy Spirit to convict people, but perhaps our role of preaching and ditching are really producing this type of "believers.
Quite simply, we've got to convince them that they are a sinner... She obviously has no idea what sin is, or she would be driven to repentance. We've got to preach God's word unreservedly, offending them if necessary, making them very angry if necessary - do whatever it takes to get them to see their own vile wickedness before a Holy God and drive them to repent. It can only be through an ignorance of God that a person goes about sinning against Him. We all stumble, and we all mess up, but we don't make a practice of sinning without even a hint of remorse - she apparently does. We've got to show them their sins! That's how we evangelize - 90% law, 10% grace. Show them our depravity, and God's propitiation.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 9:52:59 AM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 127
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(1Co 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
(2Co 5:15) And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(2Co 6:16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(2Co 6:17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
(2Co 7:1) Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
(Mat 10:34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
(Mat 10:35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
(Mat 10:36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
(Mat 10:37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
(Mat 10:38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
(Mat 10:39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
(Jas 2:19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
These are a few verses that came to mind after reading several of the posts in this thread.
It does seem to be a prevailing message from some today that you can call your self a Christian and not believe what the Bible has to say. But really that is just making it up as you go. What part do you choose to throw out? You either take the entire Bible for the Word of God or none of it.
I think the video was a pretty good example of what some people believe today. If I’m a true follower of Christ, He is going to come in somewhere above “fashion” on my priority list.
(It’s not about me any more, it’s about Him.) We call him Lord, don’t we?
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
THE WAY.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 7:45:26 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 171
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
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Jesus conquered my heart with Love and not at all with law. I was not thinking about hell at all. It just wasn't in my mind. But God showed me how He loves us by his beautiful Creation, the beauty in it, the magnificence, and what Jesus as done for us. Nobody ever told me about going in hell if i don't believe. If so i would have stopped immediately any search for that God. Not everybody reacts the same to what we say. Some will listen in fear of hell , others will do the contrary. God didn't BEGIN His teachings on earth by telling people believe or else you'll end in hell. He began by doing miracles of love to attract people and to see how loving He is.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 7:52:01 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 171
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From: Canada, quebec province
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Blaise Pascal: It is the heart which perceives God and not the reason
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 8:04:23 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 1348
Joined: 12/11/2007
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quote:
That's how we evangelize - 90% law, 10% grace. Show them our depravity, and God's propitiation
Have we become another victim of dead religion. Honestly, who would want to follow a God who will whoop our @ss the moment we misunderstood. I'm a Christ follower. Genuine, and Authentic. I love Jesus. But I don't believe that He's an angry God the way you guys describe. Have you not read the 4 gospels. There were instances of Jesus getting angry, but for the most part, He related to people, and treated them with love and dignity. And people were attracted to Jesus because of that. Jesus loved all the unlovable, the outcast, the ones that were thrown away by the society. Why can't we do the same? Why are we so angry? Why are we unloving? Why can't we really engage people in their journey of faith instead of humiliating them.
Why do we require people to change for us before we open our lives to them. Is this type of Christianity really in the bible or is it the result of our institutionalized religion?
I'm sorry, I really can't preach this really angry Jesus who supposedly came down here to die for me because He loves me. I believe in hell, and I believe in judgement, but I also believe in extending love to people. That is the way Jesus would want me to live my life. This is to me what being light of the world is all about. Not all this angry condemnation that has no trace of love at all. Although we seem to pretend that there is.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 8:41:42 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: online
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Jesus was only angry at the religious establishment who should have known better. When His house was defiled, Jesus got angry. When the teachers perverted the law for their own profit, Jesus got angry.
Jesus never got angry at a sinner.
Truly if this young woman isn't saved we cannot judge her biblically. As many of you have pointed out her stated beliefs...MUST...make her unsaved so...I make the premise it is YOU who are sinning by judgeing the "world."
If she is saved with improper doctrine then we are to lovingly guide her back into the fold, not condem her in public with this inane video.
Would you want your sin or poor belief to be on such a display??
I doubt it.
Planks people....planks.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/1/2008 7:06:23 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: online
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quote:
Let the refining be God's job not ours.
There is truth in this however its not exclusivly God's job. We can, with God's help and leading, help others mature in the Lord. Its called discipleship.
However, many would prefer to point fingers than to really help.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/1/2008 9:17:21 PM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 227
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
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In over 30 years of preaching and/or volunteer ministry in several churches and visiting many other churches and talking to many pastors, I would like to share my observations.
We have many people who go to church, believe in Jesus, but know little about him. They don't study their Bible, or make any attempt to guard against the influences of this world. They are still babies, even after many years. Our modern secular humanism and immoral media has more influence on them than the Gospel.
I believe there is a serious need in our churches to study the life and teachings of Christ as a role model. We especially need to be doing this with the younger people who are being so mislead by television and a culture that no longer holds God and Christ in the regard that they had 50 years ago.
As Israel drifted away from God many a time in the Old Testament, we are observing many Christians drifting away from God and coming up with answers as this poor girl did in this interview.
May God guide you as you seek to know Jesus better and live your life after His example.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/2/2008 12:40:29 PM
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Butterflytearz
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quote:
I have had conversations with several people who say they are Christian and yet claim that bible reading is unnecessary. They say they pray and God tells them what they need to know, so they don't have to read. It is sometimes hard to defend the bible to "Christians" who believe they simply don't need it
2Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The Bible is a blessing to all who seek wisdom and the knowledge of God but the actual Word of God is Jesus Christ , whom we love because he first loved us. God is love and His love changes our hearts when we recieve in faith. It is God who does work in us to grow in grace. If in fact God had not left us a bible,, that LOVE would still remain alive and working in us. Don't you think ?
I love the bible and it blesses me constantly because the Holy Spirit teaches me. Now if you don't read the bible and you remember only that Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross out of his great love for man and God's desire than all men should believe and confess Jesus is Lord,,, then do you not think that the Holy spirit works on your faith daily to the point where you can truly say that you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbour as yourself? These two commands envelope all the law.
God bless you in your journies
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/2/2008 12:44:53 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3865
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Butterflytearz
Now if you don't read the bible and you remember only that Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross out of his great love for man and God's desire than all men should believe and confess Jesus is Lord,,, then do you not think that the Holy spirit works on your faith daily to the point where you can truly say that you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbour as yourself? These two commands envelope all the law.
I would love to, but their lives don't indicate such.
_____________________________
Feel free to tell me what you think about this.
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/2/2008 3:26:41 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 552
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: offline
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quote:
Now if you don't read the bible and you remember only that Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross out of his great love for man and God's desire than all men should believe and confess Jesus is Lord,,, then do you not think that the Holy spirit works on your faith daily to the point where you can truly say that you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbour as yourself? These two commands envelope all the law.
Let's say a man has a wife, and she writes him love letters every day, but he leaves them in a drawer unread, not only that, he never spends time with her. Would you say this man love's his wife?. She would not think so. A christian who will not read the word is no christian at all. There are many professing believers like this. They love "love", they like the general principals of faith and the idea of heaven, they treat they're families well and they dont cheat on taxes. They believe therefore they really dont need the word, and that is not faith. Not the kind that saves anyway. Why are we so quick to claim as brethren those who have Jesus on they're lips but both feet in the world. They claim to know Christ, but does Christ know them. Narrow is the way, and few are they who find it.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/2/2008 3:45:59 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 722
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
we are told to respectfully rebuke and reprove a fellow believer, and to teach with complete patience.
Did this video accomplish this christian act? It didn't seem the people involved in the video knew each other so I think its safe to assume this was the first time they had met.
It would seem under Matthew 18:15-20, that the interviewer skipped or ignored some directives contained in that scripture. He was essentially publicly rebuking this lady with intent to do so.
That...is neither loving or I would think effective. If that young lady was to read this thread or view that video...if she isn't a christian I doubt very much she would become one and if she did it would not be because of that interviewer...or some of us.
That...afterall is the end goal here...correct? Reconciliation? Or is being right more important than love?
SonInMe1
My post which you have quoted here was more in response to what others have posted and not the video.
But in the video she did claim to love God and Jesus, before the interviewer asked her where God fit into her priorities. Did he do it in a good way, maybe not. But she opened the door, which she then ran out of because she didn't want to talk about it anymore. I don't defend either of them, because as someone else has stated, how would we do with those same questions, if we didn't know what the interviewer was trying to get at. We also may wind up being a topic on a forum, being judged by many who would probably wind up doing the same thing she did.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/2/2008 9:37:56 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3522
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: online
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I will say this....if someone asked me what my priorities were I would put God first. I am pretty confident of that esspecially with a microphone and camera there.
I might joke first but when it got down to brass tacs I am sure I would put Jesus first.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/3/2008 7:58:24 PM
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War4Him
Posts: 17
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
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Hello everyone!
I just have to agree 100% with most of the posters here that the modern gospels are turning out drunken idolatorus fornicators foaming up their iniquitious lusts in plain view. What's to be done but shun and rebuke, shun and rebuke, shun and rebuke that blasphemy just like the Lord did to the adulteress telling her to stop her sinning. Who will stop the sinning? Who can do it but the holy chosen ones? Spooky people lost in the dark headed for the pit all because of doctrines of feel good "faith"!!!! Sad I tell you sad! Secular humanism kills souls dead! But there is hope my brothers and sisters yes there is sweet hope like suagr on a donut and that hope says that that poor girl can be saved before her evil ways lead her straight to Hell! Maybe she'll even be reading this and feel so sorrowfilled that she will repent and see the light of this salvation that we show to her wretched sinful face! Yes, expose the evil and let those led by the Evil One be exposed to the light of day once and for all! AMEN! ALLELUIA!
May the peace of the Lord be with you all!
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 6/3/2008 8:35:48 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 1348
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: War4Him
Hello everyone!
I just have to agree 100% with most of the posters here that the modern gospels are turning out drunken idolatorus fornicators foaming up their iniquitious lusts in plain view. What's to be done but shun and rebuke, shun and rebuke, shun and rebuke that blasphemy just like the Lord did to the adulteress telling her to stop her sinning. Who will stop the sinning? Who can do it but the holy chosen ones? Spooky people lost in the dark headed for the pit all because of doctrines of feel good "faith"!!!! Sad I tell you sad! Secular humanism kills souls dead! But there is hope my brothers and sisters yes there is sweet hope like suagr on a donut and that hope says that that poor girl can be saved before her evil ways lead her straight to Hell! Maybe she'll even be reading this and feel so sorrowfilled that she will repent and see the light of this salvation that we show to her wretched sinful face! Yes, expose the evil and let those led by the Evil One be exposed to the light of day once and for all! AMEN! ALLELUIA!
May the peace of the Lord be with you all!
Wow, you're scary. Are you sure you know the same Jesus that I know? You sound more like the Pharisee who were about to stone the prostitute than Jesus who actually showed compassion to the prostitute. You know, judgment and condemnation will probably harm someone's faith.
Honestly, why do you guys choose to portray Jesus as this angry God who will Edited TOS 5 when you don't obey. Are you really looking forward to spending eternity with a God like that?
Perhaps, before we start preaching about Jesus, we should try to know Him so that we don't damage His name furthermore. You really sound cruel...almost like one of those fundamentalist that declares war and death for those people who don't believe they way they do. Pretty scary!
< Message edited by Kath -- 6/4/2008 4:10:21 PM >
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