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DLindros -> blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 1:07:13 AM)

up until now I was so sure that I was saved. but my wife read something to me out of the scripture that I hadn't thought about. it says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. i know I've spoken against the Lord before many times in my life. I was a stupid kid who didn't believe in anything. but now I'm a devout Christian. I'm determined to be a Pastor. I want to spend my life serving Him and I truly repent for everything I've ever done. can I ever truly be saved? or have the mistakes of my past already condemned me? someone. please help.



PureLight -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 1:18:40 AM)

You have to specifically say you deny the Holy Spirit though, for that, don't you?



Roberta_ -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 1:24:49 AM)

I have never been exactly sure what those verses mean.

I asked someone about them once and he said that if you're worried about it then you haven't done it because the Holy Spirit would not be convicting you to worry about it. Still not exactly sure what that means.



dawnofthemorning -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 2:07:12 AM)

i thought that it was when the Pharisees said Jesus was casting out demons by the power of beelzebub......they denied the holy spirits existence in Jesus and were saying he was of the devil when his power came from God........i think i have done that same thing myself, but as i listen to the scripture, it sounds like they denied Jesus power which came from God through the Holy Spirit.....if that makes sense, but go through the book of Mathew, and read it until you understand it, that is where the answer lies, I'm no expert, and i have not been a christian for a very long time, i too am lost and feel like i have lost my salvation only because i dabbled in unclean things. although i continue to listen to the word on CD, i still feel like I'm in darkness................may God bless your pasturing if that is his calling for you.



SinnerSaved -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 4:04:10 AM)

http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html



DaveW -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 6:30:47 AM)

Blasphemy of the HS is a very narrowly defined sin: Knowingly attributing the true miracles of God to the devil for the sake of turning people away from the gospel. This takes a great degree of hardness of heart.

If you are concerned about it, it is very unlikely that you committed it.



broken2live4him -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 6:57:17 AM)

the biblical definition of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit: To attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to satan & completely reject of the Holy Spirit... Bible references Matthew 22:31 (full context verses 22-37), Mark 3:20-30, 1 John 5:16, Exodus 23:21, Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews10:26-31

a true believer is not going to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and if you are concerned that you have i would say you haven't. when you truly experience the Lord and His goodness and the Spirit working in your life, you won't.


You would have to deny the Holy Spirit and His power and continually reject Him as well as attribute the works of the Spirit to satan in order to commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Read and meditate and study the scriptures I posted above and stop beating yourself up. When you are in Christ, you are sealed with His Spirit. Ask the Holy Spirit to make the Scriptures real to you and let them go from head to heart. Have you rejected the Holy Spirit to the point of not wanting anything to do with Him? Have you attributed the works of the Holy Spirit to satan? If you answered no, you are on good terms with the Lord biblically speaking. Remember you are going to mess up, err, sin, but the important thing is to recognize that you have sinned and confess and repent... All have fallen short of the glory of God. But as a child of the Lord, you have an Advocated with the Father, and you are cleansed and made whole and forgiven when you confess and repent (1 John 1:9, Romans 3:23).



rcjames -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 9:30:52 AM)

The verse where Christ speaks to this issue is;

(Mat 12:31) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

What he was speaking to had just happened;

(Mat 12:22) Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

(Mat 12:23) And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

(Mat 12:24) But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

(Mat 12:25) And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

(Mat 12:26) And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

(Mat 12:27) And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

(Mat 12:28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

(Mat 12:29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

(Mat 12:30) He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is denying His work and attributing His work to the devil as the Pharisees did in the above passage.


Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 9:31:34 AM)

In response, let me first point out that from a historic perspective the Pharisees mentioned by Matthew militantly hated Jesus and attributed His miracles to Beelzebub, the prince of demons.

Unlike those who are afraid they have committed the unforgivable sin, the Pharisees were totally unconcerned about Christ's forgiveness. Instead, with premiditation and persistence, they willfully blasphemed the Holy Spirit's testimony that Christ was the Son of the living God. It is crucial to recognize that the unforgivable sin is not a single act but a continuous, ongoing rejection leading to dying having rejected the grace of God.

Furthermore, those who have committed the unpardonable sin have no godly regrets. As the apostle Paul emphasizes in the book of Romans, they not only continue in their evil ways but approve of others who do so as well (Romans 1:32).

Conversely, "godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation" (2 Corinthians 7:10). Sorrow for sin and the desire for Christ's forgiveness is proof positive that you have not rejected the Savior of your soul.

Never forget that three times Peter denied his Lord with vile oaths. Yet, Jesus not only forgave him, but his confession, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16) became the cornerstone of the Christian church.

Finally, the Bible consistently teaches that those who spend eternity separated from God do so because they willingly, knowingly, and continuously reject the gospel.

John refers to this as the "sin that leads to death" (1 John 5:16) in the sense that those who refuse forgiveness through Christ will spend eternity separated from His grace and love.

Be assured that those who sincerely desire God's forgiveness can be absolutely certain that they will never be turned away.



rcjames -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 9:40:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Be assured that those who sincerely desire God's forgiveness can be absolutely certain that they will never be turned away.


Earthless,

Could you please expand a little more on your thoughts, it seems as though you are countering whaat Christ said? That you are saying that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be forgiven.

Or are you just referring to those who do not know what they are doing (unsaved)?

Please help me here.

Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 9:49:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Be assured that those who sincerely desire God's forgiveness can be absolutely certain that they will never be turned away.


Earthless,

Could you please expand a little more on your thoughts, it seems as though you are countering whaat Christ said? That you are saying that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be forgiven.

Or are you just referring to those who do not know what they are doing (unsaved)?

Please help me here.

Thanks
RC


It is crucial to recognize that the unforgivable sin is not a single act but a continuous, ongoing rejection leading to dying having rejected the grace of God.

Furthermore, those who have committed the unpardonable sin have no godly regrets. As the apostle Paul emphasizes in the book of Romans, they not only continue in their evil ways but approve of others who do so as well (Romans 1:32).



Liveloved -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 10:34:32 AM)

quote:

I was a stupid kid who didn't believe in anything.


The Lord knows. He looks on the heart. I am now 53 and I still do and say things that you could classify as 'stupid' in my life. The Lord knows all about me. And what He wants is for me to honestly confess. If you have done that, and continue to do that, you will know you are His because living in repentance is evidence of His life within. It is not being good that proves you are a believer. It is acknowledging your badness. Most are unwilling. So bless you in your desire to live and serve Him. [:)]

Edited to add: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be simply understood as unbelief.



rcjames -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 2:02:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Be assured that those who sincerely desire God's forgiveness can be absolutely certain that they will never be turned away.


Earthless,

Could you please expand a little more on your thoughts, it seems as though you are countering whaat Christ said? That you are saying that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be forgiven.

Or are you just referring to those who do not know what they are doing (unsaved)?

Please help me here.

Thanks
RC


It is crucial to recognize that the unforgivable sin is not a single act but a continuous, ongoing rejection leading to dying having rejected the grace of God.

Furthermore, those who have committed the unpardonable sin have no godly regrets. As the apostle Paul emphasizes in the book of Romans, they not only continue in their evil ways but approve of others who do so as well (Romans 1:32).


Well Romans 1/32 says;Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I see nothing there about blasphming the Holy Spirit only rejecting God.

My friend, I usually agree with you, but I belive you are letting your OSAS belief cloud your judgment here.

Thanks
RC



Roberta_ -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 2:18:56 PM)

Hi longitycat. and welcome to the forums!



earthless -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 3:00:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Be assured that those who sincerely desire God's forgiveness can be absolutely certain that they will never be turned away.


Earthless,

Could you please expand a little more on your thoughts, it seems as though you are countering whaat Christ said? That you are saying that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be forgiven.

Or are you just referring to those who do not know what they are doing (unsaved)?

Please help me here.

Thanks
RC


It is crucial to recognize that the unforgivable sin is not a single act but a continuous, ongoing rejection leading to dying having rejected the grace of God.

Furthermore, those who have committed the unpardonable sin have no godly regrets. As the apostle Paul emphasizes in the book of Romans, they not only continue in their evil ways but approve of others who do so as well (Romans 1:32).


Well Romans 1/32 says;Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I see nothing there about blasphming the Holy Spirit only rejecting God.

My friend, I usually agree with you, but I belive you are letting your OSAS belief cloud your judgment here.

Thanks
RC


Blaspheming the Holy Spirit = having died rejecting the grace of God. It's an obstinate and ongoing process that eventually leads to its goal - rejection of Jesus for all eternity.



rcjames -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 3:04:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Blaspheming the Holy Spirit = having died rejecting the grace of God. It's an obstinate and ongoing process that eventually leads to its goal - rejection of Jesus for all eternity.


Scriptural support please?

Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 3:15:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Blaspheming the Holy Spirit = having died rejecting the grace of God. It's an obstinate and ongoing process that eventually leads to its goal - rejection of Jesus for all eternity.


Scriptural support please?

Thanks
RC


When it comes to this topic it is also important we clearly define our terms. A lot of people think of other things/sins such as cursing God, or willfully degrading things relating to God.

It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him.

BUT this case of blasphemy, is a specific one, called "THE blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31.

In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon "Beelzebub" (Matthew 12:24). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."

This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. There are other ways to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but this was "THE" unpardonable blasphemy.

As a result, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. but seated at the right Hand of God.

No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit.

Although there is no blasphemy of the Spirit today, we should always keep in mind there is an unpardonable state of existence (which is what I was touching on earlier in my responses) the state of continued unbelief.

There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy.

Remember what is stated in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life." The only condition when someone would have no forgiveness is if that someone is not among the "whoever believes in Him."



DaveW -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 3:21:06 PM)

quote:

No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit.... As a result, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. but seated at the right Hand of God.
But, if the Holy Spirit is still performing miracles on earth today (and I believe He is), atributing those miracles to satan would also be blasphming the HS.

Edited to add:

I know I took your statments out of order. You also said the pharasees had IRREFUTABLE proof. While I do not argue that point, it is not included in the text and should not therefore be part of the definition.

OTOH, we are told exactly what they were doing and why they were doing it. To go beyond that is adding to the text IMO.



rcjames -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 3:24:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
As a result, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. but seated at the right Hand of God.


I certainly agree that Christ is at the right hand of God at the present time, but the Holy Spirit is here.

That passage says; that blasphemy against the Son can be forgiven, but against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.

The sin can be done today and sadly is done today when folks deny the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 3:28:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit.... As a result, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. but seated at the right Hand of God.
But, if the Holy Spirit is still performing miracles on earth today (and I believe He is), atributing those miracles to satan would also be blasphming the HS.


There is quite a bit of distinction between being in front of Jesus during His earthly ministry and doing it to seeing something now, testing in light of Scripture, and seeing that it is not of God.

The Pharisees - who knew that Jesus' miracles validated His words and ministry (see John 11:45-48) - were attempting to discredit Jesus' Messiahship by saying that His works were by the devil and not by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan, they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by whom Jesus performed His miracles.

This is unforgivable because it struck at the very heart of the redemptive work of God in Christ. It struck at the very nature of Jesus’ ministry of redemption, testimony, and teaching. Jesus was ministering in the power of the Holy Spirit Himself, fulfilling the divine plan of God to provide a sacrifice for our sins (John 3:16; 1 John 4:10). The Pharisees were attributing this to demonic activity. This is a great blasphemy.

Some have emailed me and asked me if a a born-again believer can commit the unforgivable sin. No.

How can someone who has been born again (John 3:7), made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), and received eternal life (John 10:27-28) actually commit the unforgivable sin? He cannot. Jesus Himself said that we have eternal life, not conditional life: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." Besides, it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that the Christian is a new creation in Christ. We are different, no longer slaves to the old nature (Romans 6:14). We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

There is no biblical support for a believer committing this sin. It just hasn’t happened. Also, if you are worried that you may have committed the sin and can’t be forgiven, then don’t be concerned. If you are worrying about it, then you haven’t committed it. If you are worried about it, then that is a sign that you have not committed it. If you had, you wouldn’t be concerned. Which is what was seen by the Pharisees.



rcjames -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 5:48:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit.... As a result, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. but seated at the right Hand of God.
But, if the Holy Spirit is still performing miracles on earth today (and I believe He is), atributing those miracles to satan would also be blasphming the HS.


There is quite a bit of distinction between being in front of Jesus during His earthly ministry and doing it to seeing something now, testing in light of Scripture, and seeing that it is not of God.

The Pharisees - who knew that Jesus' miracles validated His words and ministry (see John 11:45-48) - were attempting to discredit Jesus' Messiahship by saying that His works were by the devil and not by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan, they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by whom Jesus performed His miracles.

This is unforgivable because it struck at the very heart of the redemptive work of God in Christ. It struck at the very nature of Jesus’ ministry of redemption, testimony, and teaching. Jesus was ministering in the power of the Holy Spirit Himself, fulfilling the divine plan of God to provide a sacrifice for our sins (John 3:16; 1 John 4:10). The Pharisees were attributing this to demonic activity. This is a great blasphemy.

Some have emailed me and asked me if a a born-again believer can commit the unforgivable sin. No.

How can someone who has been born again (John 3:7), made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), and received eternal life (John 10:27-28) actually commit the unforgivable sin? He cannot. Jesus Himself said that we have eternal life, not conditional life: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand." Besides, it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that the Christian is a new creation in Christ. We are different, no longer slaves to the old nature (Romans 6:14). We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

There is no biblical support for a believer committing this sin. It just hasn’t happened. Also, if you are worried that you may have committed the sin and can’t be forgiven, then don’t be concerned. If you are worrying about it, then you haven’t committed it. If you are worried about it, then that is a sign that you have not committed it. If you had, you wouldn’t be concerned. Which is what was seen by the Pharisees.


I wish you were right, but I am afraid you are not. The Holy Spirit is still working among us and his work can still be attrubuted to satan; ergo the sin can still be committed.

When one tries to fit everything to a preconcieved idea (as with OSAS) one runs the danger of giving folks a false sense of security as in you cannot commit blasphemy because it would screw up one's OSAS theology.

AS for me; Jesus said and warned us and I believe it is an unforgable sin that can be committed.

Thanks
RC

edited to add

So I guess Paul was just teasing when the Holy Spirit had him write;

(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Thanks



earthless -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/27/2008 5:59:44 PM)

RC,

Could not the same be said about everything being filtered through the lens that you or some demonic power can take you out of Jesus' hands?

Of course it could. Hello pot. [:D]

* knowledge of truth does not equal being born-again - just knowing about God's truth and not acting on the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Many know about God's grace but they freely reject it - there is no other sacrifice because Jesus is it. If they reject Him than they are out of luck.



DaveW -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/28/2008 8:23:49 AM)

I agree with what RC said. It is still possible. I doubt very seriously that a believer would ever commit it as the HS would hugely convict such a person before they went that far.

HOWEVER, there are still anti-missionaries out there who would do anything to dissuade people from the gospel. In messianic circles we deal with them fairly regularly (groups like Jews for Judiasm) and to have them attest that a healing or deliverance from sin is a satanic work sounds a lot like this sin to me.

EXAMPLE: a young lady from our congregation went to Ethiopia a couple of months ago on a 2 week mission (medical) primarily to the Jewish community there. In the northern city of Gondar, 2 leading rabbis came to the Lord (there were actually a few hundred salvations of Jews, coptic orthodox and muslims and all received new bibles) and have now had false charges leveled against them from anti missionaries. They are in jail awaiting trial. The antimissionaries have went to everyone that recieved a bible containing the NT and forced them at gunpoint to give them up to be burned. These are the people I am talking of and believe it is VERY possible for them to commit this sin.



rcjames -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/28/2008 11:21:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
* knowledge of truth does not equal being born-again - just knowing about God's truth and not acting on the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Many know about God's grace but they freely reject it - there is no other sacrifice because Jesus is it. If they reject Him than they are out of luck.


The danger is that in the zeal to protect one's pet theology that that one rejects even the Words of Christ.

Jesus warns us of the serious consequences of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and I am grateful for that warning. But to deny that what He said is the truth or valid today is just plain dangerous theology as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Now I am not a "if you sin, you loose your salvation" type of guy, but Scripture teaches in many places about falling away;

(2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Or what I believe to be a great example of blsspheming the Holy Ghost in;

(Heb 6:4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

(Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

(Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

We just cannot ignore these verses just because they do not line up with the Holy Grail of OSAS.

My main concern is that by misrepresenting the Scripture we may lead one into committing the unpardonable sin.

Now at the risk of getting a spanking from the mods, I will say that I do not understand how one who is saved, has tasted the Heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Ghost, and enlightened can leave the Faith; but the Scripture says it can happen and gives the consequences for such actions in the above quote from Hebrew's 6.

My real concern is those who are not saved, but think that they are; and are kept in darkness by the repeated promises of OSAS adhereants that nothing can destroy what they think they have, even if they don't have it. Matthew 7.

Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (5/28/2008 11:30:59 AM)

RC - this is not a discussion regarding the eternal security of a born-again believer. Hebrews 6 is easily refuted for those that believe a real born-again believer can undue what Jesus holds secure in His Hand.

Like I noted earlier, referring to the belief of being eternally secure in Christ Jesus as a "pet theology" is fine for the goose as it is for the ...... the same could be said and referred to as the belief that we are one step away from undoing what Jesus once and for ever did on the cross.

BUT.. I digress. A question was asked and I responded to it in the best manner I know how.

Take care.



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