Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (Full Version)

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BugLady -> Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/28/2008 11:16:34 PM)

Imagine, if you will, a woman you care about discovers a camera hidden in her shower, or perhaps secreted in some other location within the home where she would obviously have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

The woman could be your wife, sister, daughter, mother or even your grandmother... any woman you care for, really.

How do you think you would react?

In what ways would you offer this woman support?



clownfish -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/29/2008 1:17:05 AM)

In my home?? [sm=eek.gif]

In some areas, this could be considered a criminal action, and I'd call the cops to take a report. However my initial reaction would be to permanently destroy said camera and do a sweep of the entire house to ensure that no others exist. Before destroying it, I'd try to do a little detective work (if the cops don't) to figure out how it works which would give me a better idea of who installed it.

How to support the woman....that depends on several factors: Does she live in the house or just visiting? If she is visiting from out-of-town, then I'd offer her a place at a nearby hotel if she would want that. I would ensure that no other cameras exist, and I would make sure whoever did it would get some sort of punishment (through the legal system, preferably). Any further action would depend on her emotional state and the best way to deal with that.

I hope I never have to encounter this situation.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/29/2008 11:33:09 PM)

I should hope it would be a criminal act in all areas, not just some. If it isn't, it should be.

quote:

Any further action would depend on her emotional state and the best way to deal with that.


Since you mention her emotional state, are you considering the possibility that she'd be emotionally traumatized by this type of incident?



clownfish -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/30/2008 12:47:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

I should hope it would be a criminal act in all areas, not just some. If it isn't, it should be.


It would be a local or state issue since it is not a federal (U.S.) one. I just know several states recently had to update their laws to cover specific voyeurism incidents.

quote:


Since you mention her emotional state, are you considering the possibility that she'd be emotionally traumatized by this type of incident?


Of course that's a possibility, and it is a tough situation to handle. Each woman would probably react differently. I can imagine the emotions could range from a very paranoid but understandable "I'm not living in this house ever again! We gotta move!" to a reaction of less severity. So yes, I could understand if she were to have a very emotional reaction.

I think the men might have a reaction too, such as "I failed to protect her" and would be upset at themselves about it as well as upset at the guilty party.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/30/2008 12:54:27 AM)

quote:

It would be a local or state issue since it is not a federal (U.S.) one. I just know several states recently had to update their laws to cover specific voyeurism incidents.


I would imagine, however, if what was taped was broadcast over the internet it would then be a federal issue, no?

quote:

I think the men might have a reaction too, such as "I failed to protect her" and would be upset at themselves about it as well as upset at the guilty party.


This seems a normal reaction. What would be abnormal, it seems, is for a man to make the woman feel responisble herself for what happened.



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/30/2008 9:47:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady
How do you think you would react?

In what ways would you offer this woman support?


i see the situation as a violation and i'd be upset and want the guilty party punished. i would ask how she would like to be supported - i can see supporting my wife differently than the other relationships but i do believe it would be an "emotionally traumatized" event as you put it and try my best to help her recover.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/31/2008 12:53:48 PM)

quote:

i see the situation as a violation and i'd be upset and want the guilty party punished.


Oh, it's a violation for sure... carrying the much the same ramifications emotionally as a physical sexual assault.


quote:

i would ask how she would like to be supported - i can see supporting my wife differently than the other relationships but i do believe it would be an "emotionally traumatized" event as you put it and try my best to help her recover.


Your use of the word recover indicates you would acknowledge there was an injury. That would be a big help in itself, I believe. But because it's an "invisible injury", it will likely be a difficult and lengthy recovery. I agree your relationship with the woman would determine in what ways you would or should offer support.



LivingParadox -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/31/2008 1:38:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

quote:

i see the situation as a violation and i'd be upset and want the guilty party punished.


Oh, it's a violation for sure... carrying the much the same ramifications emotionally as a physical sexual assault.


quote:

i would ask how she would like to be supported - i can see supporting my wife differently than the other relationships but i do believe it would be an "emotionally traumatized" event as you put it and try my best to help her recover.


Your use of the word recover indicates you would acknowledge there was an injury. That would be a big help in itself, I believe. But because it's an "invisible injury", it will likely be a difficult and lengthy recovery. I agree your relationship with the woman would determine in what ways you would or should offer support.


That's absolutely right. I won't get into the details but I personally know a situation similar to this one and I can attest it been an extremely damaging and hurtful situation only to be made worse lack of response from others and a mentality to blame the victim.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (5/31/2008 3:32:41 PM)

quote:

That's absolutely right. I won't get into the details but I personally know a situation similar to this one and I can attest it been an extremely damaging and hurtful situation only to be made worse lack of response from others and a mentality to blame the victim.


Yep, there certainly can be a a blame the victim mentality with this sort of offense. Same as with any other sexual assault. I also think the general public, for the most part, are so desensitized to graphic and/or indecent images being widely circulated, they think little of the damage done to a victim.



BlackCapnHarlock -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/2/2008 11:05:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

Imagine, if you will, a woman you care about discovers a camera hidden in her shower, or perhaps secreted in some other location within the home where she would obviously have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

The woman could be your wife, sister, daughter, mother or even your grandmother... any woman you care for, really.

How do you think you would react?

In what ways would you offer this woman support?


If I didn't set the camera up then that's a criminal violation and something to notify the cops about and to do some investigation about.

I thought this was about the other type of video voyerism like porn and or couples who like to film themselves having sex and doing erotic acts.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/2/2008 11:20:01 PM)

quote:

If I didn't set the camera up then that's a criminal violation and something to notify the cops about and to do some investigation about.


If you can get them to take you seriously. Once you start talking about hidden cameras you get a lot of this -------> [sm=aside.gif]

[;)]

quote:

I thought this was about the other type of video voyerism like porn and or couples who like to film themselves having sex and doing erotic acts.


N. O. [sm=shakinghead.gif] It's about a hypothetical woman being violated and possibly made to look like (with a little help from photoshop or other magic tricks, perhaps) she was involved in something she wasn't.

I find it kinda ironic there have been few responses, but 342 hits (at the time of this post) to view this topic. Is it because no one knows how to respond? No one wants to respond? Or could it be because no one wants to imagine a woman they actually do care about being violated in such a way? Curious.



PromiseLander -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/3/2008 7:56:14 AM)

Destroy the camera... Find person responsible and interrogate. If the responsible party is within the family, then deal with them in love. If they are without the family, bring the cops into it and let justice take its course. Keeping pepper spray on you at all times is not a bad idea either. Most importantly, don't live in fear.



mrtigger -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/3/2008 9:45:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

I find it kinda ironic there have been few responses, but 342 hits (at the time of this post) to view this topic. Is it because no one knows how to respond? No one wants to respond? Or could it be because no one wants to imagine a woman they actually do care about being violated in such a way? Curious.


I read it but didn't respond since it was regarding a hypothetical situation. I'm not very interested in analyzing hypothetical things.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/3/2008 9:49:58 AM)

Oh, that makes sense. Or maybe not. Does that mean you'd discuss it if it weren't hypothetical? What's the difference? Sometimes "hypothetical" merely preserves privacy... sometimes not.



U376977 -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/9/2008 3:14:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

Oh, that makes sense. Or maybe not. Does that mean you'd discuss it if it weren't hypothetical? What's the difference? Sometimes "hypothetical" merely preserves privacy... sometimes not.


First thing I thought when I read the topic is that it has really happened to someone, maybe you bugLady or one of your friends. Like most everyone else advised, call the police. I think I read that it is not a crime in a lot of states if there is no sound and only video. But that is the first step.

There was a TV movie based on fact where a woman was recorded by a landlord and video was posted on the internet. The woman was treated as a strumpet by the community/church--at least in the movie---but had done nothing wrong. And even though all tapes were destroyed, once it gets on the internet there is no way to completly get rid of all copies. Just think about the home porm movies out there by "movie stars." The movie explored all the questions/emotions that have been raised in this thread and more.

What about Anger! If it happend to my wife or litlle girl, I would want to punch someone in the face and trust in the forgivness of God later.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/9/2008 7:25:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: U376977

What about Anger! If it happend to my wife or litlle girl, I would want to punch someone in the face and trust in the forgivness of God later.


Thanks for this honest reaction. I should think this would be a normal reaction if this happened to someone you cared about.


quote:

Like most everyone else advised, call the police.


I've actually been waiting for them to contact me. Them or certain others who have me at a disadvantage.



Pauley464 -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/12/2008 3:52:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

quote:

It would be a local or state issue since it is not a federal (U.S.) one. I just know several states recently had to update their laws to cover specific voyeurism incidents.


I would imagine, however, if what was taped was broadcast over the internet it would then be a federal issue, no?

quote:

I think the men might have a reaction too, such as "I failed to protect her" and would be upset at themselves about it as well as upset at the guilty party.


This seems a normal reaction. What would be abnormal, it seems, is for a man to make the woman feel responisble herself for what happened.




If the man made the woman herself feel reponsible for the invasion of privacy, I'd take a long hard look at the guy to make absolutely certain he wasn't the one who set it all up in the first place for some perverse reason. If the man truly cared about the woman in question, he would be outraged on her behalf and more concerned about finding the actual criminal instead of making her feel like the criminal. If his reaction wasn't normal, he'd be my first suspect. But that's just me. Maybe others aren't so suspicious by nature.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/12/2008 7:06:28 PM)

Thanks for the insight, Pauley. That's actually very helpful...



figmentPez -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/13/2008 10:19:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfish

It would be a local or state issue since it is not a federal (U.S.) one. I just know several states recently had to update their laws to cover specific voyeurism incidents.


Usually those laws are in order to protect against voyeurism in public places. The problem was that the laws considered any picture taken in a public place to be legally the same. A picture of a person's face was considered the same as a shot up a woman's skirt, because there was nothing in the law to distinguish between the two. I'm not sure exactly how the laws are written to differentiate between the reasonable expectation of privacy concerning what is covered by clothing, and the fact that a person out in public does not have an expectation of privacy concerning pictures taken of their person in general. There are also likely laws concerning photos taken of private spaces from outside, and other situations. I remember how many headlines were made in tech news over these and cyber-stalking laws.

However, I think that hiding a camera in someone else's property has always been illegal... but that brings me to a very scary question, who planted this camera? If it's someone who isn't living where the camera was found, I would think that would be pretty clear-cut illegal. However, I've never heard about the legal state of a hidden camera placed by someone living there. I'm not sure if a shower-cam placed there by the owner and occupant would be treated any different legally than a security-cam or "nanny-cam". I would hope that there would be some some sort of recourse for the victim in that case, but it might be a more difficult case in court.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

quote:

If I didn't set the camera up then that's a criminal violation and something to notify the cops about and to do some investigation about.


If you can get them to take you seriously. Once you start talking about hidden cameras you get a lot of this -------> [sm=aside.gif]


If the cops won't file criminal charges, it's time to hire a lawyer and talk about filing civil charges.



BugLady -> RE: Video Voyeurism - A Hypothetical Question (6/14/2008 6:12:18 PM)

quote:

...it's time to hire a lawyer and talk about filing civil charges.


Intentional infliction of emotional distress... easier said than done.



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