What's going on with our girls? (Full Version)

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AnnaLDavis -> What's going on with our girls? (5/29/2008 9:15:35 AM)

Did you know that many Christian girls actually become less confident during college? Not just girls in general, but Christian girls. This doesn't make sense, or at least it shouldn't. Having a relationship with God should enhance your confidence.

Something is wrong here, don't you think?

Anna L. Davis
www.TheCollegePrecipice.com



stellaluna -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (5/29/2008 9:32:42 AM)

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say it's a lack of leadership skills gained before college. But that's paintint with a broad brush. Who says they're less confident?



AnnaLDavis -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (5/29/2008 10:18:45 AM)

I stumbled into this research while writing a book of encouragement for college girls. According to a report (Gender Issues Highlighted by CAP findings) from the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities (2004), women in Christian colleges increasingly struggle with issues of personal confidence, while by contrast women in secular colleges actually become more confident during college. This surprised me, so I began talking about it. And everyone I spoke with said, yeah, I can see that.

Anna L. Davis
www.TheCollegepPrecipice.com



karlie -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (5/29/2008 10:26:54 AM)

quote:

Did you know that many Christian girls actually become less confident during college?


quote:

And everyone I spoke with said, yeah, I can see that.


It hasn't happened with my daughter at all. She's 19 and a junior in college and I have seen her self-confidence increase big time, especially over the last year. She's lived away for a year in the dorms and I think making her own decisions and seeing that she has enough common sense and abilities to do that has helped her really develop her identity and confidence to handle life on her own. She's also realized she can stand firm in her convictions and I think that's been a huge boost to her self confidence. She's blossomed out of her shyness and become more social and outgoing. I've seen her time in college just be an amazing growth experience for her all the way around.



ta_mosquito -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (5/29/2008 10:41:59 AM)

I hate to get into this realm, but could it be prevalent in Christian colleges because of the gender roles issue? Girls in secular schools are told they can be whatever they want to be; girls in Christian schools are told they can be teachers and nurses and businesswomen, but don't get into pastoral ministries. And don't forget who wears the pants in the (future) family. And, while it may not be officially pushed, they're told often that college is the best place to meet your spouse. With that mentality, some girls may not see the advantage in personal growth if they're not going to excel in a career but instead become a wife and mother right out of school.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but I can see who this might lessen some girls' self-confidence, especially if they did not grow up in households that put forth these ideals.

Disclaimer: I went to a 4-year conservative Christian university, so I'm speaking from personal experience. However, I didn't buy too much into the rhetoric (for example, I did NOT meet my future husband in school, nor did I stress about doing so). I enjoyed my school experience, so I'm not putting down Christian higher education. I'm just making a guess as to why Christian school students experience this.



stellaluna -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (5/29/2008 12:26:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
I hate to get into this realm, but could it be prevalent in Christian colleges because of the gender roles issue? Girls in secular schools are told they can be whatever they want to be; girls in Christian schools are told they can be teachers and nurses and businesswomen, but don't get into pastoral ministries. And don't forget who wears the pants in the (future) family. And, while it may not be officially pushed, they're told often that college is the best place to meet your spouse. With that mentality, some girls may not see the advantage in personal growth if they're not going to excel in a career but instead become a wife and mother right out of school.

I'm thinking along these lines as well.



NoShow -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (5/29/2008 1:23:59 PM)

Can it be due to different "values"?

Can it be that women at a secular college are seeing that they can be successful in a secular environment, because they're just as smart as anyone else, so gain confidence. While women at a Christian college are seeing the challenge of "success" at Christian standards (and avoiding the temptation of secular success) and are feeling less confidence about rising up to that?

How did the study gather the information? Did it define confidence and how did it measure it?



Hismusicgal -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (6/3/2008 12:48:34 AM)

I go to a bible college and one of the first thing the director of the department said was what do you want to do with your degree? I told him be a Worship leader/ music director or worship pastor in a church. he said that all well and good but what do you think of administation in that dept ? I said no just what i meant the preceeding that is what has benn needed in my church for years and now i think that the church is finally figuring that out. right now i am doing wl with little bible and some music background. After the past 2 semesters the director at school found out just how determined God & i were. Yes, I do lack confidence cause i am always double guessing myself but hey i think i would do that anywhere i go. I never had much self esteem.

[sm=angel.gif]



IonMoon -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (6/3/2008 2:02:03 PM)

So how do Christian women in secular colleges do compared to those in "Christian" colleges? And how do they define Christian (both women & colleges)?

And were the changes in individual scores compared or were they looking at overall scores?

And which women pick Christian colleges rather than secular? I would personally think that is where a good deal of the difference may come in... What is different about a Christian girl who chooses a Chirstian college over a secular one? And how do similar girls do in secular college?

If there is still a difference between these groups when broken down... then we need to look more closely at what/how Christian colleges are teaching.

Tara P



cowgurl4christ -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (6/4/2008 10:53:16 PM)

Well, being a Christian girl currently in college...I could personally see this as both true and false.

TRUE:
-I go to an art college, and throughout our art creation process, we present our research and work and our work is critiqued by the class, teacher, and sometimes outsiders. I'd love to do a project with Christian themes, but I'm not confident enough. I know my peers and professors are ready to rip me apart, as I've seen it happen to other (strong) Christians who've attempted in the past. (There's mannnyy people in my school who tend to make up their own religions...I recall one of my peers said his religion is "LeBronism"...you get the idea)

FALSE:
-On the other hand, I'm much more outgoing now than I was in high school, and through trial and tribulation, college has helped me learn who I am...though I find myself to constantly be changing and growing with each new year haha. I talk to a lot more people than I would have in high school and happily partake in more events. I'm a social butterfly now! It's taken me a couple years to learn which students in my school are Christian, but I now have a nicely sized group of Christian friends I hang out with...having that helps a lot!

Sticking to your guts and beliefs is hard to do in college; I come across many times where my faith's been tested, but I like to think that it's this type of courage and faith that makes me unique. :)

Overall, I am much more confident!

And this only applies to Christian college females but not males? ...interesting.
Now that that thought crosses my mind, I think of the media and how women are portrayed as these flawless, toned, stylish women. Guys don't care about fashion as much as girls, so it wouldn't affect them as much, but being a Christian girl, sometimes I don't want to wear what's "in style" due to the graphic nature of it. To some girls, I bet that can give way to a feeling of not being trendy and cool, which could lead to a decrease of confidence, but it seems like that would only be temporary.

I am interested in what situation these girls are in when they are said to be "less confident." Is it when they're talking in front of a group? Talking to a boy? Expressing their opinions? Other?



AnnaLDavis -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (6/5/2008 2:41:19 PM)

You can find the study at this link: http://www.cccu.org/resourcecenter/resID.2356,parentCatID.128/rc_detail.asp. But I'll give a short version.

Background: In 1991, an editorial in Christianity Today by David Neff highlighted research from nine Canadian Bible Colleges which revealed that Bible college women ranked far behind both men and women at secular colleges in feelings of personal competence.

Methods: In 1994, the CAP study surveyed 11,000 first year students entering American Bible colleges and followed them over six years, surveying them at various times for changes in their values. This study went on from 1994-2000. They compared their data with a similar national (UCLA) study on students entering secular colleges in the same time frame.

Results: Results were published in 2004. See http://www.cccu.org/resourcecenter/resID.2357,parentCatID.128/rc_detail.asp. Women were less likely than men to rate themselves as above average in self-perception of leadership ability, social self-confidence, and intellectual self-confidence. This "gender gap" has remained large and even widened over time. Women at secular colleges still rate themselves behind men, but higher than women at Bible colleges. In the 1991 study, women in Canadian Bible colleges rated 20 percent lower than women at secular institutions, and the 1994 study did not prove otherwise in American Bible colleges.

My comments: Obviously this is a small study. I would like to see it duplicated on a larger scale, especially by following Christian students entering both religious and secular colleges. But it still raises some very interesting questions. Could this be happening across the board with Christian women in all colleges? What about their church backgrounds before college? Why -- in a time when opportunities for women abound -- are Christian women struggling in this area?

Anna L. Davis
www.TheCollegePrecipice.com



consumingfires -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (6/5/2008 7:44:04 PM)

IMHO, I think sometimes most Christian girls are less confident than non Christian in first place. They don't dare to wear make up, let their eyebrows grow wildly and don't even wear sleeveless for fear of stumbling the male species.

I think that being a Christian and a woman and having low self esteem are just correlations. The real factor has yet to be determined. However I can list out a few pointers here that might be causal:

1. Christian woman are grow up with the worldview that emphasize inner more than outer beauty. They fail to see the other side of beauty which was narrated in the Bible, that Esther was beautiful on the outside as well as the inside. That Ruth took pains to get ready herself for Boaz.
These historical women didn't just put on sackcloths. They invested too in their physical . Balance is vital.

2. Christian woman set their own rules to the point that sometime they mix it up with Biblical teaching. When another woman buys a Gucci, she will think that it is unspiritual as the money could have gone into saving a starving child for a year ala Judas. They think that it is totally wrong to indulge in wordly pleasure and when people around them do it , secretly they want for it too. But the envy turns inward into low self confidence because they make themselves feel that they do not deserve it.

3. There is not enough role model of good christian woman who are beautiful out there. Sure I was in awed of Miley Cyrus for a while. But then her angel image was tarnished because I read that she was involved in some Unchristian behaviour. It is tough to be popular and to be pure in Hollywood I guess, so I am not judging her.

That is my point of view. Feel free to rebutt



cowgurl4christ -> RE: What's going on with our girls? (6/6/2008 12:45:00 AM)

quote:

AnnaLDavis: My comments: Obviously this is a small study. I would like to see it duplicated on a larger scale, especially by following Christian students entering both religious and secular colleges. But it still raises some very interesting questions. Could this be happening across the board with Christian women in all colleges? What about their church backgrounds before college? Why -- in a time when opportunities for women abound -- are Christian women struggling in this area?

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that girls are emotional, especially at this age, and if a bad life-changing event occurs during this time, it can change or at least make you question your faith. It is also at this age that you are freed of parental guide (unless you commute!) and are much more prone to experimentation with drugs and dating and such.

Ex 1: dating a non-christian guy can have faith changing effects.
Ex 2: I have a college friend who's mom recently died, and I was talking to her on the phone and asked her if she still believes in Jesus. Thankfully she does, but mentioned she's not on 'good-terms' with him right now due to her mom's death...problem is, she hasn't seemed to be close to God since she entered college. She's experimented with many bad things in college, and seems to be a completely different person, for the worse I'm afraid. She doesn't attend church anymore. She felt it was too pressuring, clique-ky and fake.
Ex 3: EVERY Catholic friend (male and female, but mostly FM) I've had, except one, are now athiest or agnostic...odd? The one that is still catholic never attends church.

quote:

aposfus: IMHO, I think sometimes most Christian girls are less confident than non Christian in first place. They don't dare to wear make up, let their eyebrows grow wildly and don't even wear sleeveless for fear of stumbling the male species.


I always wear make up, I pluck my eyebrows, and I wear spaghetti straps when it gets hot. My Christian girl friends do the same. Dare I even say I wear high heels at times? hehe Christians aren't prohibited from looking pretty...ya just don't want to OVERdo it. I'm not less confident because I don't wear mini-skirts and low cut tops...I wouldn't want to wear those anyways! lol I prefer to be stared at in the eyes if you catch my drift.



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