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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 6/28/2008 5:25:47 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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WOW, no postings here for a week! Esther, I hope you are having a good time at the GT!
< Message edited by humbleinspirit -- 6/28/2008 5:31:52 PM >
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 6/28/2008 10:41:01 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: offline
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It was on my rosters unread backlog.
I thought that you were going to the Smokeymountain (Southern Gospel) GT in Tennessee, but I guess I was wrong.
And no problem bumping your thread as well. 
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 6/30/2008 6:04:35 PM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2104
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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This being my very own PFY, personally for me, and this also being the Batty Belfry, where odd things should be a matter of course, I have decided to sometimes use it as a place to blog my thoughts. Take them or leave them, it's up to you.
WARNING, WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! STRONG OPINIONS STATED HERE!
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Within several threads in the Single's forum, I have lately noticed that discussions often devolve into debates, heated debates and some have even shown the potential to become a flame war except for the rapid and wise intervention of the moderators. Others simply turn into ramblings with no substance. Reading through some of these threads, I noticed a tendency for the discussion to become heated or pointless simply because the terms being discussed were understood to mean different things by different people.
Attempts to intervene in these discussions with a request for definitions have met with a variety of responses. By far the greatest response has been to ignore the requests completely. Recently one response stated uncategorically that everyone was invited to respond to the topic according to their own meaning of the term.
I'm not a philosopher nor a terribly bright person, but even I can tell you that if you and I discuss "briglags", our discussion will be of no profit whatsoever if neither one of us knows what a "briglag" is. And if I happen to think that a briglag is large and red, and you happen to think it is microscopic and blue, then there will likely come a point when our discussion will become heated or pointless.
This reminds me of the old poem about the blind men who encounter an elephant. One decides the elephant is like a tree, another states an elephant is like a rope, and a third opines that an elephant is like a fan. But none of them have the correct definition or understanding of an elephant!
Christians have a mandate to seek truth and live by it. A proper understanding of God brings us to a logical conclusion that absolute truth must exist. We may not have access to all absolute truth, but we know it exists. There is quite a bit of it that we can know: God has communicated it to us. We know, for instance, that gravity exists. And we can define gravity rather precisely, and even predict it's effects upon matter. We can also know that adultery is wrong. In scripture it is precisely defined and it's consequences are accurately predicted.
Christians also have access to the Source of Truth. In His Word (both written and incarnate) God has communicated as much absolute truth as we need to live in conformity to Him. Defining terms is important to God. Therefore it should be important to us. Encouraging one another in the truth is commanded by God, therefore it should be important to us. Speaking the truth in love (and not in flames) is commanded by God, and should be important to us. Communicating grace that bears fruit instead of being vain (pointless, time-wasting) is commanded by God. We should engage in conversation concerning important topics that is grace as well as fruitful.
Defining terms will accomplish the acquisition of truth to live by, promote the pursuit of peace between brothers and sisters in Christ, perform a witness before the world of our love for God and for each other, and allow us to have fruitful discussions.
The blind men in the old poem had no choice about their blindness. We as Christians have had our eyes opened by The Truth. Let us discuss topics as if we can see the elephant. And if we're not sure, let's compare notes on the elephant--we'll come closer to the Truth that way.
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All comments welcome, as long as they are spoken in grace and truth.
besiderself
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/1/2008 5:34:49 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3830
Joined: 3/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
This being my very own PFY, personally for me, and this also being the Batty Belfry, where odd things should be a matter of course, I have decided to sometimes use it as a place to blog my thoughts. Take them or leave them, it's up to you.
WARNING, WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! STRONG OPINIONS STATED HERE!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Within several threads in the Single's forum, I have lately noticed that discussions often devolve into debates, heated debates and some have even shown the potential to become a flame war except for the rapid and wise intervention of the moderators. Others simply turn into ramblings with no substance. Reading through some of these threads, I noticed a tendency for the discussion to become heated or pointless simply because the terms being discussed were understood to mean different things by different people.
Attempts to intervene in these discussions with a request for definitions have met with a variety of responses. By far the greatest response has been to ignore the requests completely. Recently one response stated uncategorically that everyone was invited to respond to the topic according to their own meaning of the term.
I'm not a philosopher nor a terribly bright person, but even I can tell you that if you and I discuss "briglags", our discussion will be of no profit whatsoever if neither one of us knows what a "briglag" is. And if I happen to think that a briglag is large and red, and you happen to think it is microscopic and blue, then there will likely come a point when our discussion will become heated or pointless.
This reminds me of the old poem about the blind men who encounter an elephant. One decides the elephant is like a tree, another states an elephant is like a rope, and a third opines that an elephant is like a fan. But none of them have the correct definition or understanding of an elephant!
Christians have a mandate to seek truth and live by it. A proper understanding of God brings us to a logical conclusion that absolute truth must exist. We may not have access to all absolute truth, but we know it exists. There is quite a bit of it that we can know: God has communicated it to us. We know, for instance, that gravity exists. And we can define gravity rather precisely, and even predict it's effects upon matter. We can also know that adultery is wrong. In scripture it is precisely defined and it's consequences are accurately predicted.
Christians also have access to the Source of Truth. In His Word (both written and incarnate) God has communicated as much absolute truth as we need to live in conformity to Him. Defining terms is important to God. Therefore it should be important to us. Encouraging one another in the truth is commanded by God, therefore it should be important to us. Speaking the truth in love (and not in flames) is commanded by God, and should be important to us. Communicating grace that bears fruit instead of being vain (pointless, time-wasting) is commanded by God. We should engage in conversation concerning important topics that is grace as well as fruitful.
Defining terms will accomplish the acquisition of truth to live by, promote the pursuit of peace between brothers and sisters in Christ, perform a witness before the world of our love for God and for each other, and allow us to have fruitful discussions.
The blind men in the old poem had no choice about their blindness. We as Christians have had our eyes opened by The Truth. Let us discuss topics as if we can see the elephant. And if we're not sure, let's compare notes on the elephant--we'll come closer to the Truth that way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All comments welcome, as long as they are spoken in grace and truth.
besiderself
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I may not have always adhered to it, but I do concur.
Recently, I decided to stop responding to a certain poster's comments for this very reason. I just typed and deleted, typed and deleted. Apparently, I can't go into detail without sinning...
Defining terms is the necessary basis for all productive discussion. How can people come to agreement or understanding if they're talking about two different things?
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/1/2008 5:57:49 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3830
Joined: 3/30/2007
Status: offline
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Thanks for the warm welcome, Esther. Batty definitely fits me better than Peep, though. 
Will be praying for DD and the Beau and for you (car, French, spouse, etc).
I understand about the snarkiness. Sometimes when I type something that could even be construed that way, I'll delete my thoughts and completely stay away from the conversation until the snarkiness subsides. I like to tease but not in that way. My jokes, however harsh they might come across, stem from love and comfort. It's the way that my family has always shown our appreciation for each other--a term of endearment, so to speak.
Anyway, I can't decide if I'm going to play some more on the forums or enjoy a nice, summer nap...
Have a lovely afternoon!
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/2/2008 7:19:20 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2104
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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Thanks for the prayers concerning the car:
I did buy one yesterday. I wish I could enjoy the sensation, but I'm struggling too much trying not to worry about whether it was the right decision or not to enjoy the sensation.
I bought a Ford Fusion--in red. I just felt I had to have something to cut down on the gasoline costs back and forth to school. So now I have a car payment, and my sweet old lady Suburban has been ousted from her bedroom for this new tart. I almost cried when my son backed the big ol Cherry Fairy out of her birth so I could put the new car in the garage. Is that silly, or what?
Still...the new one is quite nice, will hold almost all of us if necessary, will be easier to teach the middle dd to drive in, will cost much less even with the car payment, has bluetooth, XM radio, an ipod dock and a usb port, and a 4 yr 100,000 mile warranty. Most of that is very good news for a single woman on the road a lot.
My son has decided to go back to college early so he can work. He refused to work for the places around here that had jobs available: I kind of understand his reasoning, but the truth is he just didn't want to. He'll leave on Thursday. It's been so nice having him here...with him and dd gone, I fear I might be quite lonely! He's helped out a lot with both the younger girls. Sometimes middle dd is hard to handle: between the two of us we were doing pretty good. Now he'll be gone and I'll have to handle her by myself.
Sheesh! Boy, am I whining!!
I got a real nice car sitting in the garage, and a son who WANTS to work. What am I complaining about???
Y'all have fun, now. Don't forget to thank God for the wonderful country we live in. Even if it's messed up a bit, it's still the best country in the world!
besiderself
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/4/2008 2:29:08 PM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2104
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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Song Of The Day (in ENGLISH in honor of 4th of July!)
Coming To America
Once upon a time, we were all immigrants. Our fathers, mothers, grandfathers and and grandmothers were the children of immigrants.
As Christians, we are all immigrants, made natural citizens by Divine Grace.
God Bless America!
besiderself
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/4/2008 10:01:55 PM
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sunluvingirl
Posts: 2110
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
Thanks for the prayers concerning the car:
I did buy one yesterday. I wish I could enjoy the sensation, but I'm struggling too much trying not to worry about whether it was the right decision or not to enjoy the sensation.
I bought a Ford Fusion--in red. I just felt I had to have something to cut down on the gasoline costs back and forth to school. So now I have a car payment, and my sweet old lady Suburban has been ousted from her bedroom for this new tart. I almost cried when my son backed the big ol Cherry Fairy out of her birth so I could put the new car in the garage. Is that silly, or what?
Still...the new one is quite nice, will hold almost all of us if necessary, will be easier to teach the middle dd to drive in, will cost much less even with the car payment, has bluetooth, XM radio, an ipod dock and a usb port, and a 4 yr 100,000 mile warranty. Most of that is very good news for a single woman on the road a lot.
My son has decided to go back to college early so he can work. He refused to work for the places around here that had jobs available: I kind of understand his reasoning, but the truth is he just didn't want to. He'll leave on Thursday. It's been so nice having him here...with him and dd gone, I fear I might be quite lonely! He's helped out a lot with both the younger girls. Sometimes middle dd is hard to handle: between the two of us we were doing pretty good. Now he'll be gone and I'll have to handle her by myself.
Sheesh! Boy, am I whining!!
I got a real nice car sitting in the garage, and a son who WANTS to work. What am I complaining about???
Y'all have fun, now. Don't forget to thank God for the wonderful country we live in. Even if it's messed up a bit, it's still the best country in the world!
besiderself
Wow Esther, have fun with your new car!! Hope and pray all goes well with you and your kids, God is faithful!
_____________________________
 "There are no accidents in the life of faith. In its music, the accidentals perfect the harmony."
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/7/2008 10:09:22 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2104
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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Good morning, Peeps!
Chanson du jour:
Breakfast Table
This one's for you, Shema! Thinking about it, several of you will enjoy this one...Nadine, WRB, John_O, and perhaps others...
Ok, today I am asking advice. Please feel free to post anything you'd like...I am asking mostly for the opportunity to examine more creative ideas than my own.
I will really, really be interested in scriptural responses...
Here's the question:
Should I try to contact The Beau's parents/family and...I don't know. Ask them why they are so afraid of us that they would throw their son out of their family in order to keep away from us? Show them the things they are missing by choosing to shut he and my daughter out of their lives? Confront them scripturally about their bad behavior?
I don't really think that The Beau would allow me to do this if he knew about it, so either I would have to do it without his knowledge, or I would need to convince him that it is a good idea. Heck, I need to be convinced it is a good idea myself!
Your ideas, batty peeps?
HEY!!! I think I may have just thought of the right "name" for my kids on here...how about Peep1, Peep2, Peep3 and Peep4?
besiderself
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/8/2008 1:12:37 AM
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kj88il
Posts: 2048
Joined: 3/3/2008
From: IL (NW Central)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
Good morning, Peeps!
Chanson du jour:
Breakfast Table
This one's for you, Shema! Thinking about it, several of you will enjoy this one...Nadine, WRB, John_O, and perhaps others...
Ok, today I am asking advice. Please feel free to post anything you'd like...I am asking mostly for the opportunity to examine more creative ideas than my own.
I will really, really be interested in scriptural responses...
Here's the question:
Should I try to contact The Beau's parents/family and...I don't know. Ask them why they are so afraid of us that they would throw their son out of their family in order to keep away from us? Show them the things they are missing by choosing to shut he and my daughter out of their lives? Confront them scripturally about their bad behavior?
I don't really think that The Beau would allow me to do this if he knew about it, so either I would have to do it without his knowledge, or I would need to convince him that it is a good idea. Heck, I need to be convinced it is a good idea myself!
Your ideas, batty peeps?
HEY!!! I think I may have just thought of the right "name" for my kids on here...how about Peep1, Peep2, Peep3 and Peep4?
besiderself
i already know you would never act without much prayer on this issue.....but i have had a somewhat similar experience. my mother called my ex....years after we'd been divorced...to call him on his behavior toward my daughter. (something he and i had discussed many a time!) i agreed with her views....but i still felt she was out of line. that was between him and me...and our daughter. i understand Mom is still the grandma...but she is "removed" from him, in the general sense, due to the divorce. anything that has to be said should come from me....not my parents. although i didn't get mad at Mom...i did tell her she had oversteped, and i told her not to do it again.
it's hard for me to comment on your situation, as i don't fully understand it. it just seems to me that, frustrating as it is for you to watch you child and her beau be hurt by their choices...you're kind of on the perimeter here since they're not even married. i would have to guess that if they're treating their own son...and his beloved...that way....your input would not be well-received. is that a fair assumption? lol
and really....if you already suspect "beau" wouldn't like your going to them directly...do you really want to have THAT hanging between you before they're even married? what if that becomes a seed that festers...possibly causing yet another breach?
that just has T-R-O-U-B-L-E written all over it, to me. 
but that's just my opinion. i trust you and God will sort it out. 
(edited for spelling)
< Message edited by kj88il -- 7/8/2008 7:59:20 AM >
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Kimberly (aka KJ)
Shifing Gears w/ Kimberly
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/8/2008 1:35:09 PM
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WaitingforBoaz
Posts: 3976
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline
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I want to start out saying that I wanted to be able to come to you with scripture that would apply to the situation, but I could find none.
None of the scriptures dealing with marriage apply. The only scriptures that I thought fit the situation were the ones that deal with appropriately confronting those in sin, which in my opinion the parents are. If you attended the same church and had the same leadership, I would say that you could go to the pastor, that is both of your covering and ask for advice or help with mediation. This, however, is not the case either.
So, this is what I would do;
I would not write a letter to the parents, I would not attempt to have any relationship with them, if they have made it clear that they wanted none.
I would advise my daughter to take it veeeeery slow. The parents raised the son. I am sure he is a wonderful young man, but I would be concerned and would want them to have every opportunity to discuss all the topics necessary when moving towards marriage. I would also make it clear to my daughter that it is not necessary to do all of the things his parents demand, just because they are his parents. Respect them as any other elder, consider all council and make choices as led by the Lord.
This is the only advise I have.
~Blessings~
Nadine
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a mans character, give him power" - Abraham Lincoln
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/9/2008 10:46:31 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2104
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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Thanks, Kimberly and Nadine;
You're both probably right. It's just sooooo frustrating.
I do hear what you are saying, too, Nadine, about going slowly, and your concerns about whether the bizarreness has transferred to the next generation.
Dd and I have discussed that at length. SLOW is the name of the game. But from what we are seeing, it really seems that The Beau is 1) completely taken aback at the way his mother is acting, and 2) Very aware of how unhealthy her behavior is. And he seems willing to separate himself from his family in his own behavior in order to conform to Christ as well as protect my dd from his family where necessary. They are in the process of discussing the consequences of having children with this issue hanging over them, too.
One reason I have considered saying something to the mom is because she and I had exchanged many emails before she got weird...there's a very tenuous relationship there that I might bank on a bit for the right to say something.
But really, butting in is just not right, however hard it is to stand back and watch--it's just as hard to watch her hurt herself in this as it is to watch her hurt them!
Not unless God drops the opportunity in my lap after having written His instructions for same in purple lipstick on my bathroom mirror will I say something. I did tell dd yesterday that if she and The Beau decided, in some last ditch effort, that they would want me to try to say something, I would be available to do that.
I also told her I didn't want to be left out. Just because I'm staying out of the relationship with The Beau, I don't want to be thought of as just agreeing to anything and everything--I don't want to become "invisible" in the problem and especially in the solution. There are many other reasons for this, but one of the least is that she owes me a personal apology for a few things. I don't hold grudges, don't get me wrong, but a restoration will have to include these things if it is to be complete.
I would appreciate your prayers for me, in particular, to be able to keep my mouth shut and trust that God wants this restoration worse than any of us do and is working full time to accomplish it.
besiderself
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/9/2008 11:47:21 AM
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.Pammy
Posts: 3951
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: PA, USA
Status: offline
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Hello Esther,
Just wanted to know I'm just now subbing to your thread. Please know I'm praying for your dd's situation (actually, I've been doing that). I'm SO sorry to see that it hasn't changed much since I last heard about it. Just what on earth is wrong with those people?!? *Sigh*
Of course I haven't read the entire thread, just this last page, so I hope there isn't anything else terribly important I need to know. If there is, I suppose I'll figure it out or I'll ask. But I'll be here (probably lurking mostly) from now on!
(Oh, BTW, I also agree with your post #180.)
_____________________________
Pam
"Sweet-talkers win at singles' bars and in politics ... often with similar outcomes for the listener."
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/9/2008 11:59:29 PM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2104
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: utilityfielder
quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
Welcome, Pammy!
Glad you decided to join us batty peeps in the Belfry!
Thank you for the prayers. No, nothing has changed (nor gotten worse nor better). The mother did make noises about "talking", but has since backed off as The Beau and dd have made it clear they will not meet without a professional third party in attendance.
I'm very glad to hear that you agree with my diatribe on truthful definitions!
Feel free to peep away here...we'll keep the light off for you...
(get it? bats don't like light...harr harr)
besiderself
Hi Esther,
What is encouraging to me is that The Beau appears to be operating in a rational Godly manner with respect to the situation.
Oh, Gary, this comment was so helpful. I feel that he is, too, but I am so gullible sometimes that I have trouble being sure I can trust my perceptions. But he really does. He is taking care of dd, he protects her from the family stuff, and he's not taking any stuff off them himself. Thanks for letting me know that someone else sees this too.
besiderself
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/10/2008 6:56:34 AM
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.Pammy
Posts: 3951
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: PA, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
What is encouraging to me is that The Beau appears to be operating in a rational Godly manner with respect to the situation.
Yep, me too. He's holding firm. And there is a "leaving and cleaving" aspect to this. At some point, he (and maybe this is it) needs to "just say no" to his mother.
_____________________________
Pam
"Sweet-talkers win at singles' bars and in politics ... often with similar outcomes for the listener."
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RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry - 7/10/2008 7:58:18 PM
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utilityfielder
Posts: 12205
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Home of the Champions
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .Pammy
quote:
What is encouraging to me is that The Beau appears to be operating in a rational Godly manner with respect to the situation.
Yep, me too. He's holding firm. And there is a "leaving and cleaving" aspect to this. At some point, he (and maybe this is it) needs to "just say no" to his mother.
He is old enough now to live his own life.
_____________________________
Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement. Ronald Reagan
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LOL!! 
But we both knew I couldn't post it: hurtful truth spoken hurtfully is sin--and on top of that it isn't effective. Since she's really good at restating things in a more positive light, she helped me rewrite the piece and I was able to post. 
