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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/6/2008 2:58:21 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
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The reason I asked the question about Jesus running was to point out that rather than voting for what you believed you would only vote for whoever had a chance. Which defeats the purpose of voting.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/6/2008 2:58:48 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
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Jeff, you may have your platform of Alternative Candidates for the Alternative Universe back. I don't want to play.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
Do not call me a liar again unless you can back it up!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
I'm done with you because you are not worth arguing with.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/6/2008 3:01:37 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Jeff, you may have your platform of Alternative Candidates for the Alternative Universe back. I don't want to play.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
Do not call me a liar again unless you can back it up!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
I'm done with you because you are not worth arguing with.
Ok, but don't complain about the national ID cards that can track where you go, what you buy and who you know. McCain is the only candidate supporting them. And you seem to be supporting McCain.
< Message edited by Solus -- 6/6/2008 3:54:34 PM >
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/6/2008 3:02:41 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
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Okay, so I changed my mind about arguing with you. I did a John Kerry. I flip-flopped. At least I can admit my faults. The point is, you claimed that I was lying when I said I would vote for Jesus if He was on the ballot and you claimed that I had already shown that Jesus' values meant nothing to me. Neither of those are correct and I challenge you to prove otherwise. If you can't, then back off!
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/7/2008 4:24:57 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Jeff, you may have your platform of Alternative Candidates for the Alternative Universe back. I don't want to play.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
Do not call me a liar again unless you can back it up!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
I'm done with you because you are not worth arguing with.
The Universe where people vote for either the D or the R is no less the land of make believe and far more sooner than later a vote for either will be a vote for nothing short of the same thing because people somehow believe doing the same thing over and over again is going to bring about change...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 6/7/2008 5:57:49 PM >
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/7/2008 5:51:20 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2916
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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There is not enough difference between the D and R. They all seem pretty much the same to me. It's all about power. It's all about spending the money in order to keep that power. I'm sick of the whole lot.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/7/2008 5:53:52 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
There is not enough difference between the D and R. They all seem pretty much the same to me. It's all about power. It's all about spending the money in order to keep that power. I'm sick of the whole lot.
I agree... And vote for the lessor evil is still a vote for evil...
John
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/7/2008 7:10:51 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
There is not enough difference between the D and R. They all seem pretty much the same to me. It's all about power. It's all about spending the money in order to keep that power. I'm sick of the whole lot.
Which is exactly why I am searching for a better candidate. Sure, the guy I vote for won't win. Big deal. At least I will know that I voted for someone who is better than whichever bozo does get elected. The only real difference between McCain and Obama is the color of their skin. Otherwise they are interchangable. So were Bush and Kerry, and Bush and Gore, and Clinton and Dole, and Clinton and the first Bush, and the first Bush and Dukakis.
The last time we had a real choice with real differences between the candidates was Reagan versus Mondale in 1984.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 9:29:43 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
There is not enough difference between the D and R. They all seem pretty much the same to me. It's all about power. It's all about spending the money in order to keep that power. I'm sick of the whole lot.
I agree... And vote for the lessor evil is still a vote for evil...
John
The phrase "the lesser of two evils" is just that, a phrase. It's an idiom, not a literal statement. We are not talking a choice between Stalin and Hitler.
I still submit that if you find a candidate with all the characteristics you expect, that candidate should be an evangelist, a preacher, or a missionary rather than spending time on temporal matters.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 1:29:17 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
There is not enough difference between the D and R. They all seem pretty much the same to me. It's all about power. It's all about spending the money in order to keep that power. I'm sick of the whole lot.
I agree... And vote for the lessor evil is still a vote for evil...
John
The phrase "the lesser of two evils" is just that, a phrase. It's an idiom, not a literal statement. We are not talking a choice between Stalin and Hitler.
I still submit that if you find a candidate with all the characteristics you expect, that candidate should be an evangelist, a preacher, or a missionary rather than spending time on temporal matters.
I don't want America to turn into a theocracy which is what would probably happen. I want a president who will limit the power of the government and follow the constituiton.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 2:13:02 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I still submit that if you find a candidate with all the characteristics you expect, that candidate should be an evangelist, a preacher, or a missionary rather than spending time on temporal matters.
You don't believe that God could call someone with those characteristics to run for office? I believe He could and I would hope that person would follow that call as well. As you know, God calls each Christian for specific missions. As Paul pointed out in the bible, some are called to be apostles, some teachers, some preachers, and some to other works. Why couldn't a call to be a national leader or run for national office be one of those as well?
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 2:15:07 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
We are not talking a choice between Stalin and Hitler.
How do you know that for sure? As I recall from history, most people did not realize just how evil Stalin and Hitler were until they were already in power.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 2:17:40 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I still submit that if you find a candidate with all the characteristics you expect, that candidate should be an evangelist, a preacher, or a missionary rather than spending time on temporal matters.
You don't believe that God could call someone with those characteristics to run for office? I believe He could and I would hope that person would follow that call as well. As you know, God calls each Christian for specific missions. As Paul pointed out in the bible, some are called to be apostles, some teachers, some preachers, and some to other works. Why couldn't a call to be a national leader or run for national office be one of those as well?
Don't you also think He'd call someone that would win the office? When He calls someone to national office, like anything else, the person will make it there. And, as has been admitted, an alternative candidates isn't going to make it this year.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 2:30:49 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Don't you also think He'd call someone that would win the office? When He calls someone to national office, like anything else, the person will make it there. And, as has been admitted, an alternative candidates isn't going to make it this year.
Not necessarily. God may call someone to run but it may or may not be in God's will for that person to win. It may be God's will for that person to help get the message out through a national campaign, not to actually get elected.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 2:35:26 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Don't you also think He'd call someone that would win the office? When He calls someone to national office, like anything else, the person will make it there. And, as has been admitted, an alternative candidates isn't going to make it this year.
Not necessarily. God may call someone to run but it may or may not be in God's will for that person to win. It may be God's will for that person to help get the message out through a national campaign, not to actually get elected.
You mean unlike David or Gideon or Deborah? I'm having trouble finding a biblical example of God calling a godly leader to fail in order show the godless that He was in charge.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 3:27:08 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Don't you also think He'd call someone that would win the office? When He calls someone to national office, like anything else, the person will make it there. And, as has been admitted, an alternative candidates isn't going to make it this year.
Not necessarily. God may call someone to run but it may or may not be in God's will for that person to win. It may be God's will for that person to help get the message out through a national campaign, not to actually get elected.
You mean unlike David or Gideon or Deborah? I'm having trouble finding a biblical example of God calling a godly leader to fail in order show the godless that He was in charge.
Did Paul succeed in everything he did? No. Did any of the other Apostles? No. Yet, God called them to do what they did in spite of the fact that He knew they would not be 100% successful.
Oh, and David was not always 100% successful either. Even his own son rebelled against him.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 3:33:07 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
....Did Paul succeed in everything he did?...
Absolutely. He was called to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, and despite bumps along the way, succeeded.
God did not call Paul to be an Apostle but ended up as a shoe salesman after a Gnostic beat him out of the job.
quote:
Oh, and David was not always 100% successful either. Even his own son rebelled against him.
And at what point did David cease to be King? He did not.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 4:00:08 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: online
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Jimbo, you just don't get it. God's call to have a Christian run for President may not be for him or her to get elected. The purpose may be for that individuals candidacy to reach people that God wants reached. In that, the candidate who is running will be successful, whether he or she wins the election or not.
That is the point I am trying to make. God may want someone to run, not to win, but to reach people who may not otherwise be reached.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 4:08:38 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
Jimbo, you just don't get it. God's call to have a Christian run for President may not be for him or her to get elected. The purpose may be for that individuals candidacy to reach people that God wants reached. In that, the candidate who is running will be successful, whether he or she wins the election or not.
That is the point I am trying to make. God may want someone to run, not to win, but to reach people who may not otherwise be reached.
I get your point, I just disagree and scripture seems to support my belief that God puts into office whom He chooses. He, however, seems to call prophets and preachers to proclaim His spiritual messages, not usually failed political candidates that nobody remembers the day after the election - if that long.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 4:20:06 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I get your point, I just disagree and scripture seems to support my belief that God puts into office whom He chooses. He, however, seems to call prophets and preachers to proclaim His spiritual messages, not usually failed political candidates that nobody remembers the day after the election - if that long.
But the point is, God could choose to do it the way I described. Who are we to say that He won't?
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 5:05:14 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
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This sort of reminds me of the discussion my wife and I have had about locks. She thinks I'm silly to make sure the door locks are in good working order and insure they are locked before I go to bed. I see little difference between that and Jerusalem having walls & gates. Or having the house grounded. Or a having a handgun. None of those guarantee my survival in emergencies, but I think God expects me to take reasonable precautions.
I see voting for a 3rd party candidate like my foolishly leaving my door open and the gun unloaded in the basement and feeling I may be helping God use a robber to come in and teach my family some lesson.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 5:23:52 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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I notice several people denigrating the choice that some of us make to vote outside the two parties.
To this allow me to advise that you vote your way and we'll vote ours. If more people who were fed up with the two major parties would stop their incessant whining about it and looked into the other parties (Consitution, U.S. Taxpayer, Green, Liberterian, Prohibition, etc) there would be a major shake up in Washington. Maybe things would actually get done.
So you go ahead and settle for voting against someone. We'll actually vote FOR something for a change.
Just my two cents though. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. ;)
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/9/2008 6:46:25 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1638
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: online
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Jimbo, instead of ridiculing and bashing those who chose to vote their conscience, why not just respect their decision and move on?
< Message edited by Jeff_from_Kentucky -- 6/9/2008 7:06:29 PM >
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/10/2008 12:03:03 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
The phrase "the lesser of two evils" is just that, a phrase. It's an idiom, not a literal statement. We are not talking a choice between Stalin and Hitler.
As a voter from California I beg to differ it can be a literal statement...
quote:
I still submit that if you find a candidate with all the characteristics you expect, that candidate should be an evangelist, a preacher, or a missionary rather than spending time on temporal matters.
I'd settle for God fearing and I shouldn't have to expect that candidate the to be an evangelist, a preacher, or a missionary...
John
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