Gentlemen, your advice please ... (Full Version)

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Sally_G -> Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/4/2008 7:57:24 PM)

I'm hoping that some of you can help me with this. I met a guy through an online dating service about a month ago. Things seemed to be progressing well, we emailed then spoke on the phone, exchanged text messages etc. He is a Christian, wants to get married, have kids, and is a really neat guy. The majority of our conversations were us getting to know one another and also discussing courtship stuff (how many kids, how to handle anger, future goals, etc.) He seemed very excited about me, we could talk about anything, and things seemed to be going well. I liked him too, but thought that he was moving too quickly (he kept wanting to talk about marriage - he talked like the kind of guy who was smitten by a woman ...). That raised a red flag for me, but with his constant wooing, I was starting to develop some deeper feelings for him (we were talking every day in addition to text messages at one point). But I kept my heart guarded because we hadn't yet met in person and didn't share exactly how I was feeling although I told him that I liked him.

Well, he drove up to meet me and all of a sudden everything changed. His enthusiastic response became very lukewarm. We still talked non-stop and our first date lasted for a long time (5 hours) but the spark was not there. I personally would have been fine seeing if a spark would emerge since we seemed to be in sync in other areas, but I don't think he was. My guess is that he didn't like me physically, although I'm confused about that because he'd already seen my picture and the picture does look like me. I went ahead and put my cards out on the table because I knew that I'd regret it if I didn't - I let him know that I liked him and would like to continue to get to know him better. He said the same thing, said I was attractive, he loved talking to me, etc. - but that he wanted to take it slow (he NEVER said that before) - etc. etc. but his heart didn't seem to be in it. He ended our time early with an excuse that seemed to me to be a bit contrived. I felt a little sad about it, but because my heart was guarded (praise God), it didn't throw me for a loop and I was able to bounce back after a day or two. I don't get rejected a lot, but I'm secure enough in myself to know that people have different preferences - and the way I see it is that a rejection makes room for the guy that God wants to bless me with to enter my life. And the same for him. So I'm totally cool. So, I decided, after praying about it and speaking about it with a trusted friend that I'd just give him an "out" and end it by saying that I didn't think that we were right for one another and that we should each keep seeking God for his will in our lives.

Now, here is the wierd part. It has been a few days, and he continues to call me, but doesn't leave messages. We've only spoken once (when I happened to answer the phone). I've tried to call him back he doesn't respond. He sends text messages and although I have responded, there is no follow up. This is markedly different from the way things were prior to us meeting in person (he always called back, would call just to hear my voice, etc. etc.). To be honest, I just want to deliver my "we aren't right for each other" message and be done with it.

So, I'm wondering about your thoughts on the situation. I'm thinking very seriously about sending an email to him with the "we are just not right for each other" message but feel wierd about doing it without speaking to him. I feel like I'm making a lot of assumptions - but there is something deep within me that tells me that my assessment is correct.

I'd appreciate your thoughts ...



DrivenbyGod -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/4/2008 8:37:39 PM)

From what you've described it sounds like you guys initially hit it off but there may not have been any chemistry between you after you met. It also appears he was coming on very strong from the get go, which comes across as desperate to me.

If he's not responding back to your calls or email I would send him the email and basically tell him as nicely as you care to, to stop bothering you and wasting your time.



colliefan -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/4/2008 9:03:27 PM)

quote:

To be honest, I just want to deliver my "we aren't right for each other" message and be done with it.


Like the Nike ad: Just Do It



OneJohn410 -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 2:24:31 AM)

Sally_G,
A lot of what you shared pretty nicely sums up why I've not looked much at E-harmony to find my 'perfect match!' Oh, but those people on the ads look so happy and so proud of how they found each other. It sure looks great! I've always thought that I'd try that service, and things would be beyond belief... and then both she and I would change a little in personality. Maybe play mental games of looking to try to see just where it was that E-harmony didn't have a clue- where they messed up. Then we'd change some more... and why, were we a perfect match back then, well, obviously we are no longer perfect!

Something else nagged at me, and it follows along the Bible verse that is to the effect of show me your faith without your works... and I will show you my faith by my works. Your new acquaintance, he asked if he could attend a church with you? I mean, that doesn't give evidence to anything, but it would be a start. I could talk to you, and email you, and cards and flowers and go out and get my hair done all fancy and rent a tux and get a stunning photo made- maybe have a George Clooney look, or an Orlando Bloom or Hayden Christensen... and I'm not calling that faith without the works. That'd be a LOT of work. But if I'm not seeking to get to meet you in a mixed group setting somewhere, where we can meet, and where you might also get to meet some of my friends and me yours (that's where a lot of cards could be played), then I could be just about anybody, right? I have no idea how far away he lives from you, but it sounded like there's a long-distance relationship for a month or so when you haven't met, and then these changes you talk about. So I'm not trying to put a brother down, or you. I just have to ask what happened to the works? It sounds like you are not too interested in him anymore. I don't think I could go a month in a service like the two of you were in without meeting each other face to face somehow- and wow! To spend a lot of that first month talking marriage and courting and kids. Go for a non-threatening meet with friends on either side before putting up with any capital M talk. So I'll keep you and your group of friends in prayer, and that he starts his month long-process with someone else.

OneJohn410



Sally_G -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 7:14:31 AM)

Thanks to all of you who responded thus far. He called last night and explained why he was having a difficult time connecting with me for the past few days. We didn't talk about any courtship type topics (I wouldn't have allowed that) but just generic stuff. I think he just missed talking to me which is understandable given the amount of time that we spoke before. I wanted to share with him my feelings, but I chickened out. I did however draft the letter that I want to send/read to him.

So I still have to say what I need to say. I've got to do it and soon - I want to be fair. I really hate this part. I hate that I've been such a coward. I need to "Just Do It" as colliefan and totalfaith alluded to. I hope you guys don't yell at me too much for being chicken but pray that I have the courage instead.

I think we'd work better as friends since our conversations always flow quite well and because we are in sync in that way - but the chemistry part isn't there. I personally don't mind letting chemistry develop, but I think that he does. As long as we don't cross any lines (no talk of marriage, strictly friendship type issues, no talking every day) we might be able to be friends (not just saying that - but actually be friends since we really can talk about things). I think that he'd be ok with this although I have to be careful with my heart.

OneJohn410 - I wanted to respond to a couple of things that you wrote. I so appreciate what you had to say and your sensitivity in delivering it. Thank you so much for your prayers as well - I really need it.

quote:

Your new acquaintance, he asked if he could attend a church with you? I mean, that doesn't give evidence to anything, but it would be a start.


We did go to church when he visited. I don't have a home church yet (I'm fairly new to the area) but we went to one in the area.

quote:

But if I'm not seeking to get to meet you in a mixed group setting somewhere, where we can meet, and where you might also get to meet some of my friends and me yours (that's where a lot of cards could be played), then I could be just about anybody, right?


This is true - I'm sure that I don't know the real person, although there are certain things that I know. Like, I do know that he is a Christian - not because he said so or can quote scripture. But Christians recognize one another - there is something in the conversation, demeanor, manner, the way of conducting oneself, something in the way the person speaks of the Lord, that you know that person is a walking believer. But I don't know his "works" which might be different from his "words." Character is something that has to be observed, I think, and you are correct, I do not know that about him, nor he I.

quote:

I have no idea how far away he lives from you, but it sounded like there's a long-distance relationship for a month or so when you haven't met, and then these changes you talk about. So I'm not trying to put a brother down, or you. I just have to ask what happened to the works? It sounds like you are not too interested in him anymore. I don't think I could go a month in a service like the two of you were in without meeting each other face to face somehow- and wow!


He doesn't live too far (about a few hours away). However, as I was traveling for good portion of that month, so we weren't able to meet sooner. He wanted to meet earlier and if I had been in town we would have. Actually, my feelings about wanting to get to know him better which means observing him in settings where I can see him in action and he me haven't changed. I really like the glimpse of the internal person that I've seen and I feel that chemistry on my end could develop over time - the stirrings are definitely there. But I don't think that the chemistry is there for him. And if we moved forward I feel that he'd be settling - and I definitely don't want to be in a relationship where I'm the consolation prize. I believe that every woman needs to be loved with that type of intensity that says "I hit the jackpot - you are the ONE for me." At least I need that - and I'm not willing to settle on that point. Just like a man needs to know that his wife respects and admires him (and loves him too). So, even though I like him, I'd rather take the time to allow God to bring someone into our lives that is right for each of us rather than to jump the gun and settle. After all, marriage is forever so waiting a few months or even a couple of years won't hurt (though I'd prefer to not have to do that).

I'll add a caveat here. I'm very new to dating in general. I'm in my 30s but spent my 20s focused on the Lord primarily and career. I didn't date much in my teens or 20s. I prayed about this and felt (and still feel) that this is the path I'm supposed to take. So I'm making a number of mistakes but am learning from them. There are many things that I'd do differently if I had to do it again -- I'd slow down the frequency of communication until I met the person. I'd slow down the courtship/marriage talks. I don't mind meeting online although I prefer to meet in person, but this has shown me how important it is to meet someone who is local (which he is). If he weren't local, this could have been potentially very painful. And there are many things within myself that I need to continue to work on as well.

I appreciate any other responses or insights that you guys might have.

Sally



NealIRC -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 4:37:38 PM)

The moment he starts acting out of the ordinary - that's illogical. He would need a logical response to justify that (men love logic, don't they?).

If at 1st he talked about marriage so early, then later, back to some sort of an idle ignoring game, doesn't that mean he somehow lost interest in marrying you?



APZR -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 5:11:11 PM)

Smitten over text messages...before even meeting in person??
I don't understand this online dating, texting, and match maker stuff. Glad I'm not in the dating pool! [&:]



1mlasp -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 6:01:20 PM)

Didn't he say he wanted to slow things down because he thought things were going way too fast?

Maybe he is just doing what he said he was going to do.



mrtigger -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 8:01:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sally_G


I appreciate any other responses or insights that you guys might have.

Sally


It's pretty hard to figure out people....

I think you should tell him directly what you want or not in the relationship. If you are interested in it, say so, if you aren't, tell him you are breaking it off. Don't try to guess that he is not interested and then "give him an out" based on your guess. Tell him he also needs to be up front too about what he thinks of a possible relationship.

Perhaps he is not interested. Perhaps he is but is just shy in person. Maybe he just likes flirting and deeper relationships are not very interesting... No one can say for sure except him. Give him a little time but if he flounders around for long, you need to cut it off for your own sake.

But I'm a dufus when it comes to relationships so take this with a grain of salt..



Sally_G -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 8:03:54 PM)

Thanks for all of your responses.

quote:

If at 1st he talked about marriage so early, then later, back to some sort of an idle ignoring game, doesn't that mean he somehow lost interest in marrying you?


Neal - perhaps you are right. I wasn't sure how solid the interest was on his part because it was so strong in the beginning and we hadn't met in person. For me, although I liked (and still like) what I've seen of him thus far (minus the lukewarm parts), I knew that I was miles away from any type of serious consideration of marriage. Perhaps he has removed me from the marriage category - and if so, that is not a problem.

quote:

Smitten over text messages...before even meeting in person??
I don't understand this online dating, texting, and match maker stuff. Glad I'm not in the dating pool!


APZR - I would imagine if you've not been in this situation that it must seem rather strange :) Actually, I think that it is very easy for people who have not been in this situation to scoff at it - I'm not saying that you are doing that but I get that a lot. But, as with many things in life, it can be hard to understand it until you experience it (think about how you viewed parents before you had kids and compare that to afterwards and you'll get what I mean). It is great that you don't have to worry about dating online, phone calls, texting, or doing any of those things. I'm assuming this is because you are married and I pray that you both remain healthy and that your marriage continues to remain strong and to thrive. Many singles choose this route because we are often not in environments where everyone is our age, single, and Christian (like being 20-something at a Campus Crusade for Christ meeting for example). So meeting people who are compatible becomes a lot more difficult. Online matches often allow you to meet people you never would have met otherwise and lots of people meet their spouses that way. Of course, there are hazards to the process as with any other process. Because of this many Christians decide not to participate - but many do. It is a matter of prayer and personal preference. One of the hazards which is not often discussed but is very real is when people meet online, over the phone, or even yesterday's equivalent - through written correspondence, there is often a false sense of intimacy that is fostered. People often feel more comfortable sharing personal pieces of themselves fairly early in the process because there is not as much perceived risk. This is why it is so important to meet the person fairly early so that you can get more information about them and make a more complete assessment. In this case, we met as soon as we were able - when I was back in town and he could drive up. Also, seeing the "works" of the person, as someone else alluded to here, is also vitally important to be able to understand and assess character. I can say that although I knew intellectually that a false sense of intimacy could be fostered and was able to pray for God to guard my heart, that I was still affected by it - not deeply - but a bit more than I anticipated. But I also think part of this is because I'm so new to dating in general and I'm learning a lot as I go along.

quote:

Didn't he say he wanted to slow things down because he thought things were going way too fast? Maybe he is just doing what he said he was going to do.


1mlasp - thanks - this is one of the most straight-forward and practical answers that I've received. I think that often I tend to be too analytical about things when I might just need to take this at face value. There is something in my gut - my intuition - I don't believe it is the Holy Spirit - that is saying something a bit different - and I can't quite shake that, which is why I think I'm struggling with this a bit. But that might be apprehension or even fear on my part. Thanks for your response.



Sally_G -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 8:17:37 PM)

quote:

It's pretty hard to figure out people....

I think you should tell him directly what you want or not in the relationship. If you are interested in it, say so, if you aren't, tell him you are breaking it off. Don't try to guess that he is not interested and then "give him an out" based on your guess. Tell him he also needs to be up front too about what he thinks of a possible relationship.

Perhaps he is not interested. Perhaps he is but is just shy in person. Maybe he just likes flirting and deeper relationships are not very interesting... No one can say for sure except him. Give him a little time but if he flounders around for long, you need to cut it off for your own sake.

But I'm a dufus when it comes to relationships so take this with a grain of salt..


MrTigger - thank you. You are not a dufus at all. I think that you are probably correct. I hate doing the whole stereotypical woman "let's talk about the relationship" thing. But I think that I'm going to have to - otherwise I'll just keep going around and around in circles. I feel like I've wasted too much time doing that already ...



sylvan -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/5/2008 11:02:29 PM)

It's only one encounter. Let the leaves settle before making a rash decision.

Everyone guards their heart, in all aspects of life. That's why nobody is really giving it.



buckifn -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/6/2008 9:01:24 AM)

There was definitely too much of everything too early in the relationship. Talking about marriage, kids, and future plans is too heavy for someone you haven't even known a month.

If you could stop all the thinking ahead and allow yourselves to experience a few dates together you might be surprised at what could develop.

Good relationships, even friendships needs time imo.

If he sent you a box of chocolates would you want to eat them all in 1 day?

Let a guy enjoy the pursuit.. it sounds like you are "assessing" every thought, every move and enjoying nothing for what it is.

Do something fun, lighthearted together and see if there is a difference.



APZR -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/6/2008 11:26:55 AM)

SallyG, yes... I'm a long time married old fart, 39 going on 40 married for over 15 years. [:D]
I'm glad you realize that while the internet is great for networking. But you need to meet, greet, and see the person in action too. You are doing the right thing by remaining reserved and guarded. With the lack of communication, or at least change of habits, it sounds like this guy has decided to move on. So I don't see any harm in asking "what's up, are we going on another date or what?". And being new to dating, you do have a lot to learn. As you get older and wiser, you'll realize your real needs... who you enjoy being with, who stimulates you intellectually, common interest, etc.



Sally_G -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/11/2008 2:19:53 AM)

Thanks to everyone for your advice. After stepping back, reading your responses and taking the time to look at it objectively, I've decided to just see what happens. I've pulled back from all talk about marriage, kids, future plans etc. - I've pulled back from doing any flirting. Instead, we've just been talking about other topics and just trying to get to know each other in general. Also, although we still connect on some level each day (usually he contacts me first) - the frequency of contact has lessened a quite bit, which I think is probably a bit better. Instead, we'll just take the time to physically see each other in different situations and to also talk with one another on a friendship level for now.

In turning an analytical eye on myself, which is probably where it should have been in the first place, I realize that I've been dealing a lot with my own fear and insecurity. Because I've been so afraid of how much I like this guy - even though I've allowed God to protect my heart - I found myself putting up walls and finding reasons to end this to protect myself. This is because generally, if I get to the talking stage with someone, usually the guy likes me more than I like him. So, I really don't worry about whether they call me or not. If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't (but they usually do). I'm never mean or misleading. If I get the sense that they really like me and I know that I don't have the same feelings or that nothing will come of it (which is most of the time), I usually just end it up front because I don't want them to get too involved and to be hurt.

Again, I think that all of this has been fear on my part. I think that my own fear has caused me to interpret his actions incorrectly. After I looked at it objectively, I started to see that I wasn't really being rejected (after all, how can someone contact you every day in some way each day - and it still be rejection? That doesn't make sense.) Instead, what I'm seeing is a slowing down of the pace - which is what I wanted to do in the first place and is what he said he would do. (Thanks 1mlasp - I think that this is exactly what happened - which is the obvious thing.)

So, I've decided to be cool - to just "chill" - enjoy getting to know him as a person and to let go of all of the analysis and give this entire thing over to God. I'll still ask God to keep my heart guarded. And I've decided to pray about my own fears and insecurities and ask God to help me with them. buckifn - great advice.

APZR - yes, I figured that you were married and that you did it when you were fairly young - so I was correct. And no, you are not an old fart - I'm not too much younger than you and I declare that we are still young .... ish :). I agree with your assessment that I need to become wiser about my real needs. While I do recognize many of my needs, I'm also discovering new ones as a result of this. Also, the idea of having a need met via a relationship is quite new to me - all of my weaknesses up until this point have been compensated for by the Lord. I realize that God will continue, but he might want to meet them through my husband - whenever he sees fit to provide one and through whomever that may be.

Thanks again to all of you.



willfs -> RE: Gentlemen, your advice please ... (6/12/2008 11:12:58 AM)

I do understand the whole online dating scene because I have been there. I have developed a few rules for online dating and blind dates:

We meet ASAP. Its one thing to talk on the phone, email, see pictures...etc... its another thing to meet in person.
When we first meet it is for a very short period. I have been to too many blind dates that I wanted to get out of after ten minutes.

This can make dating someone who lives three states away very difficult. I am sorry to say but it was probably the physical that did it. If you can't meet a guy immediately then you can get cheap computer cams. Furthermore, the online dating picture rule for anyone should be to see from them ( and send to them) as many pics as possible.



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