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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 3:09:20 AM
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BibleL7
Posts: 493
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Modes-T
You see me as atheist. You see me as evil. You see me as sin. But most of all, You see me living in opposition to you. I'm not ingorant, I'm not dumb, and I mildly regret my original posts scatters brained message, and I accept my own fault in misleading you as to my intentions. However, given your assumptions....
You are foolish, and see link: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/foolish
I do not see you as an atheist nor evil nor as sin nor as living in opposition to me. Your assumption is most incorrect as for calling me foolish thank you.
quote:
I choose my words carefully, so as not as to be more insulting that I need be. disregard definition #3. Responses like your "you just want to be greedy and sin" have taken me away from a lot of god's people. I know from my youth, partying as I once did, metal shows, lots of drinking, etc. that biggest gripe of those little wierdos in black, in no one will explain god to them, simply because they are so looked down upon. I promise, those little wierdos will greet you with open arms if you greet them as a friend. Please, consider more, before you respond. Keep in mind, there is no response that will cause me to look down my nose at you, as I'm sure you have at me. (Other than "Yo yo YYOOOO, whhassuuuuppp!"...)
If you are referring to goths as 'little wierdos in black' I dont see as that is anything but looking down on others and of the goths I have known many know very much about God and Bible. No I would not look down my nose at you I have not reason to.
quote:
I'm my personal evolution, I've decided to say my peace with organized religion, smile upon those with faith, even envy them. It heals, it uplifts, and it's a wonderful thing. Other than the establishment (I'm not at all anti-establishment, either.) I've talked to god, prayed to god, and explained my soul. I have thousands of faiths here before me in America, and I am free to choose. I live my life as pure as I can, not living my a strict set of rules or commandments, but a moral standard that leads me toward good (see above). However, I am here addressing an innate fear I still possess, that feels wrong to have, or wrong not to obey. I'm not sure which. I don't like fear though, not at all. God knows no steps I take will be directly against him, I have convinced myself if he knows me inside and out, by the time I die, I will be worthy.
The Bible says otherwise for Jesus is the Way Truth and Life He paid the price for our sins and we can not earn nor be worthy of God. Your argument is with God on that and guess what God does not loose agruments.
quote:
Now, to address the "thou shalt not kill" contradiction. "Thou shalt not kill unless the person we deem holy enough to speak directly to god (pope) tells us it's "ok" to kill these people because they're sinners." This, once again, seems like a facade. So, a bunch of holy people go sit alone and meditate, and walk out with gods permission for Genocide? And the bible tells me to trust these people? Do what?
Yes, the crusades were not part of the bible, that was a bit of misinformation and a little spin coming from me. The Crusades are the work of those people in the paragraph previous. The ones who said god said it was ok. Just like every other "holy war." God is a mighty scary commander and chief and, in my eyes, makes great leverage.
This question was answered in previous posts by at least 3 people and is mute point as explained that the word meant murder so invalid.
Also the question on predestination then invalid for you have already made up your mind on the issue if you will not accept answers then invalid to question.
As for your socalled scientific facts I can only say theories and presupositions can not be counted as facts and the halflife argument is invalid as fact for there are not records for a period of over a million years to verify truth to a halflife of such long a period.
As for you not knowing of any evidence to support the Bible does not mean they do not exist. As for answering prayer there are some things that only those born again can understand on getting no answer for we do get it. As for feeding all the people of the world prayer you have already said you would not accept answers that Gods reasons are above our understanding so also invalid.
And as to comments on unansered prayer and how God has never answered certain prayers I did not realize that you were all knowing in that area to say it has not happended.
< Message edited by BibleL7 -- 6/7/2008 3:39:27 AM >
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 3:37:49 AM
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Modes-T
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To save time, I'm going to cut to the chase. I must refer to my previous post about how catholics give the right to a single person to personally confer with god in a manner that 100% confidence in the extermination of a race and/or people in gods name can be achieved.
This was not answered. Cast aside "Thou shalt not kill." Take, for consideration, why a god that loves and forgives chooses eradication over sympathy, and his people carry out such action. The brief, unrefined manner of your response says you did not bother to see this, or, more likely, missed my second post.
God has commanded us to kill his people and send them to hell, as opposed to attempting to save them. This is what my inquery relates to. I admit that I did not understand the meaning of this commandment to be not quite so literal, and refer to selfish murder, and I am now more learned with thanks to this community. However, why eradicate? Why are these various, particular sinners subject to genocide and outright eradication? Did god decide they are not worthy of the same forgiveness? Why are these people, whom he ordered us to kill, not worthy?
Where did god divine that a human, flawed and full of sin, has the right to bear his word seemingly at will? To make decisions for god, that man must follow. I have, as a result of this forum thread, learned that jesus did give the right to the church to make it's own holy and divine law. Is this correct? If so, under what reasoning are these people now allowed to speak for god, is it explained in the bible why this is permitted?
As for disdaining half lifes, we do have these materials, we do know have fast they degrade. It's math, these elements follow strict patterns. No, we haven't watched them for millions of years, but our instruments are accurate to measure a day's degradation in a 20 million year half life. 2+2 will always = 4. Half lives are not theory. 40% of the energy produced in america (nuclear) relies completely on a concise understanding of this law. Counting layers of ice is not theory or presumption. Measuring coral growth is not theory, or presumption. "Space dust", as stupid as it sounds, is not theory or presumption. Most importantly, countless scientist have researched many, many different ways of determining the age of the planet, and have all, independently of each other, reached a conclusion ranging between 4 and 5 billion years.
Now, the question is not, "Does the bible directly agree", or, is there room for interpritation that these larger numbers may be true. To be brief, the 7 stages of evolution follow directly with the 7 days of creation. Could god have guided evolution, or, is this assumption in total conflict with the word of the bible?
As for being all knowing, I am not. Never claimed to be. I am, however, well read, and to my readings, no knowledge of inexplicable miracles have occured on a basis in which more than a handful of people can agree. I am asking if anyone knows something I don't, for I am not all knowing. As for not accepting answers, yes, there are some answers that are not acceptable in the sense of the questions I am asking, and faith is a big part being Christian. I understand this. I am asking if there is or is not a definite answer. If there is not, this is fine and acceptable. I'm merely seeking knowledge I do not already have.
I would like to point out you seem very intimidated by these questions. You have given me no solution, no answer, no reason, nor, have you even guided me toward faith. You have merely told me I am flawed.
So, can you come up with something relevant to my questions, or can you only question me?
< Message edited by Modes-T -- 6/7/2008 4:02:39 AM >
_____________________________
"Either you believe you can, or you believe you can't. Either way, you are right."
-Henry Ford
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 10:48:16 AM
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Kath
Posts: 16986
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quote:
To save time, I'm going to cut to the chase. I must refer to my previous post about how catholics give the right to a single person to personally confer with god in a manner that 100% confidence in the extermination of a race and/or people in gods name can be achieved.
This is not a Catholic website so you won't find too many people who believe that away.
If you really need to discuss it then I am going to have to refer you to the Catholic Index, as we cannot discuss it here. Admin has set up certain places where issues surrounding the Catholic Church can be discussed. Our long time members know that so perhaps that is why no one responded directly when you brought it up before. Please read our FAQ concerning RCC threads HERE.
If you have questions on this policy, please email admin allowing time for a reply during normal business hours. Please do not discuss this policy in the community or with a mod via PM. Thank you.
Sincerely
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 12:09:12 PM
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Miril
Posts: 117
Joined: 5/28/2008
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quote:
I must refer to my previous post about how catholics give the right to a single person to personally confer with god in a manner that 100% confidence in the extermination of a race and/or people in gods name can be achieved.
This was not answered. Cast aside "Thou shalt not kill." Take, for consideration, why a god that loves and forgives chooses eradication over sympathy, and his people carry out such action. The brief, unrefined manner of your response says you did not bother to see this, or, more likely, missed my second post.
God has commanded us to kill his people and send them to hell, as opposed to attempting to save them. This is what my inquery relates to. I admit that I did not understand the meaning of this commandment to be not quite so literal, and refer to selfish murder, and I am now more learned with thanks to this community.
To me killing is killing, it is wrong and goes against the Commandments as you say. Personally, I don't know how anyone has the heart to kill anything or one. I squirm myself trying to kill a roach.
So I must think that is when satan comes in. Unless it is for battle, war, etc. I don't see how God could be behind it either.
Did I miss something here - Were you referring to a specific story from the bible? If so, which one?
As I have written here before, I also take into consideration when reading stories in the bible that those were completely different times.
_____________________________
Proverbs 15
3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Keeping watch on the evil and the good.
God Bless.
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 2:43:19 PM
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Modes-T
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Thank you for the catholic forum references, going to use them. However, the reason I ask in this forum, is where is the contrast between the different forms of christianity. Why is it only Catholics use the pope, and all the forms don't, but they're still using the same book.
As for the killing part, miril. There's several stories in the bible where god ordered people to exterminate a race, I found http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.html . which was a very enlightening read. still doesn't totally excuse mass killing, but, does bring into perspective.
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 2:47:52 PM
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Kath
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quote:
However, the reason I ask in this forum, is where is the contrast between the different forms of christianity. Why is it only Catholics use the pope, and all the forms don't, but they're still using the same book.
You will need to ask that in the Pope thread.
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 4:35:03 PM
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Miril
Posts: 117
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quote:
There's several stories in the bible where god ordered people to exterminate a race
Where in the bible exactly? There is still a lot I don't know and would want to read it specifically, that is why I asked.
However, I do know that killings referred in the Old Testament refer to the flesh and killings in the New Testament refer to Spiritual, as in Spiritual Warfare (fighting those pesky demons and all that fun stuff  ). I actually just learned that today. 
Word of personal advice I hope you take from me today: Now that you are asking more questions and understanding the whats and whys of God and Jesus; you will be getting closer to God through Christ Jesus (you may or may not realize that). Don't be alarmed if weird things begin happening to you, good and bad; when they do, listen to your heart so you can tell between the two. A bad sign is feeling shaky and anxious, a good sign is feeling peaceful with your surroundings, or who you are speaking with. There is time, so don't allow anyone to make you feel rushed into anything, or doing anything.
_____________________________
Proverbs 15
3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Keeping watch on the evil and the good.
God Bless.
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/7/2008 9:48:49 PM
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deermousie
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Thank you, everyone, who took the time. Especially those who really -responded-. Like deermouse and the others. Those posts took time, possibly hours, and I thank you. Money comes and goes, time can only be spent once. Thank you.
You're welcome; my pleasure! :) The following is part 1 of my response.
My question is not if/where/when/how/ and/or that there is a god. I know immense scientific FACTS, not assumptions, not theoriess, FACTS (will link later) that do NOT defy god, but make the idea all the more fascinating, and creates a situation where the lack of a "God" is impossible and almost absurb, Something had to do all of this. If the electron had a slight shift, in greater, or negative charges, the sun would not burn. Slightly more hyrdrogen, slightly less oxygen, there would be no life. The fact the universe is infinitely large and we know it's expanding at an alarming rate. (See parallax measuring of the stars, google, proof is in that all neighboring galaxies are moving AWAY from us).
Dopplar shift tells us that, too.
A problem with so many scientific "facts," for or against one's answer, is that the results are not reproducible, and therefore by definition, not scientific. To establish a fact, the same circumstances should always produce the same results. Therefore, an event in one time is not science but history. What you had for breakfast this morning is history, not science. Just thought I'd throw that in, as it might come in handy later.
The strong belief in the Godly community that science outright defies god is false.
Right. The brilliant men (and a few women) who founded the Scientific Revolution were almost all Christians. That's not taught in public schools.
Quantam Physics and the newest science since the theory of relativity defy predestination, not god.
How so?
I threw predestination out the window years and years ago, and I accept as a right of intellectual thought, that I am reserved into not wanting to believe predestination, therefore, I probably never will.
You can believe I'm a daisy, too, and that's your right within free will, but it's a weak proposition (my husband says I am not a daisy; just FYI).
I have a strong belief, deep inside, that's burned since I was a kid, that makes me feel disenfranchised from the church. I just feel it's wrong.
You may have gotten some information your young mind didn't know how to process and you could be right, but in a logical debate this doesn't fly as is. Now I'll grant to you there are people calling themselves Christians who likely aren't, and there are people doing evil pretending to be Christians who aren't - at least by God's standards (and His are the only ones that count, and that's *my* take) - because the New Testament (NT) talks about them and says Christians are to shun them (but not shun non-Christians who live like the sons of hell). It's based on morality as set up by God (1 Corinthians 5:11 ).
Just to let you know I'm not chucking rocks at you, I've been in churches that smelled funny, too Their theology was not biblical. I was at one that had a kids' sermon on Native American religion (they thought it was nice; they neglected a few pertinent points like demon possession and false gods) and when they took the little kids out for Sunday School, I made my four year old sit tight beside me. No way were they going to get her alone and tell her who knows what. If those people there had known me at all, I'm sure they wouldn't have been able to push me out the door fast enough. You're known by your enemies as well as your friends.
I presented these questions as if to ask god, these questions are more to the Christian faith than god. God's up there, my question is in the exhistance of this omnipotent being that's so uniquely involved in every single human's life, who loves us or damns us all in turn, standing in righteousness against satan and evil. Why bother to question Christians specifically? I was raised in a christian environment, so, this is where I direct most of my questions. Really, I've found I "identify" (note the word, carefully chosen) most with the more peaceful, less greed inducing manner of buddhism and hindhuism, but the elephant gods and reincarnation as a cow when you finally achieve the highest levels seem... well, a lot more absurd than any of my gripes with established western religions.
I'm my personal evolution, I've decided to say my peace with organized religion, smile upon those with faith, even envy them. It heals, it uplifts, and it's a wonderful thing. Other than the establishment (I'm not at all anti-establishment, either.) I've talked to god, prayed to god, and explained my soul. I have thousands of faiths here before me in America, and I am free to choose. I live my life as pure as I can, not living my a strict set of rules or commandments, but a moral standard that leads me toward good (see above).
There's a problem here, Modes-T - how do you know what is good? What is pure? By whose yardstick will you measure it? How do you know that's an eternal constant? What is your moral standard based on? Not a trick question, but a very basic epistomological one on which all else must depend.
However, I am here addressing an innate fear I still possess, that feels wrong to have, or wrong not to obey. I'm not sure which. I don't like fear though, not at all. God knows no steps I take will be directly against him, I have convinced myself if he knows me inside and out, by the time I die, I will be worthy.
Fear is a bear. It hurts.
God knows no steps I take will be directly against him is a problem because God takes it personally when people refuse to given Him credit and worship. I'm reading in Jeremiah right now, and God curses Israel because they are worshipping false gods. He consigned them to the sword and famine and slavery because of it. According to what I see in the Bible, your words arent' going to cut ice with God, that He'll give you a pass because you're so nice. To take your idea to the climax of by the time I die, I will be worthy is a big mistake. Not one of us can be worthy by our own efforts. God says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23 ) and that Christ died for us while we were sinners. If we could have perfected ourselves by our own efforts, we'd still be under the Ten Commandments and Christ would never have become a man or have died. Yeah, He knows you inside and out - and just like the rest of us, it ain't pretty.
K. Well, some of these questions, like "How do we know we're right?" are hard to answer, if not impossible. So, let proof mean validation. Without lengthy quotes, deermouse says the 2000 years of church history and it's persistence, referencing the creed of nicene, is just resolution of this validity.
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear what I meant to say. The church fathers from the beginning of the Church have been reading, studying and getting scholars together to see what the Bible said, what it meant, and how it applied to every day life and teaching. How shall one live? By every word from the mouth of God. So they dug in. Over the years, they have compared belief systems with what the Bible said, and ferreted out belief systems that contradicted the Bible. That's not validity of rightness, that's finding out what the Bible says and how it works in life. The rightness was assumed.
quote:
So look at a church that maintains the basics tenets of Christianity: Jesus is God, Jesus became a Man, He died for sin and rose from the dead to prove it was forgiven. The Holy Spirit is God, and God is a Three-Persons-in-One (we don't understand that because we aren't that way, but the Bible teaches us that's how God is). The Nicene Creed came about from the Council of Nicea to clear up what to believe. Look it up if you aren't familar with it; I hope to die someday with those words on my lips. It's a statement of faith.
This is a little ascew from proof. I do not want to sum it up to briefly, so as to mislead, but I don't want this to be to long (cuz it will be...) But, the First Council of Nicene was the first Ecumenical Council, invoked my Emperor Constantine (known catholic, either future or former bishop, not sure when along his way it was). To further clarify, and Ecumenical Council is, (borrowed from wikipedia) is "a conference of the bishops of the whole Church convened to discuss and settle matters of Church doctrine and practice."
(Just an aside: Nicene is an adjective that describes the place called Nicea. So, the Council of Nicea. I told you I wasn't sure which council dealt with which heresy; I agree that I need to do my homework. The references on the internet hardly covered the big dust-up between Arias and Athanasius.
To say this council is proof of Christianity validity I cannot agree with.
I agree, hence my words above.
A council of christians, lead by a christian, to agree upon what aspect of Christ are to be believed, and which are the be disregarded, is not proof. I could (and I'm sorry for how arrogant this may sound, it's merely an example, this is a very sincere apology, as I do not want to offend, just make a point) take a council of Muslims to "prove" shi'ite ideals over sunni ideals. Or a council of buddhist to discuss where, how, and when the buddha reached enlightenment, and what of his method was most important, or even a council of 4 or 5 years old to determine the color of Santa Claus's front door mat. All of these would present the same level of validation.
We are in agreement.
Now, "Proof." This question was not accurate enough. Moses parted the seas. Is there an other organizied society or doctrine that coincides with this, other than the bible?
Good question. We do know that the Egyptians knew because the Bible talksabout someone telling the Israelites they feared God because they'd heard what their God had done to the Egyptian army. But how they knew I've always wondered about as the army guys were all drowned. Maybe some 8 year old boy was following the army and saw it? Dunno. There's no mention of it in Egyptian hieroglyphics that have been found, but then if someone's country's military got its backside whooped they'd be embarrassed and probably cover it up. The Red Sea is kinda in a huge desert area so how many people would have been witnesses besides the ones who escaped (Israelites)?
The return of Christ. Is there any other doctrines or schools of thought that agree, witnessed, or can also, to some accuracy, account for this?
Not sure what you mean. It hasn't happened yet, if you're talking about the second coming of Christ.
Any other major event in the bible's history are subject to this consideration. The destruction of Sodom and Gaumora(sp?),
There are "tells" (mounds over ancient cities) all over Israel, and there are areas that supposedly have a lot of pitch or asphalt and sulfur, but I'm not finding any documentation, so I'm letting this go temporarily. All it means is "I don't know" but that can be fixed later.
the great flood?
Nearly every culture has a story about a huge flood. No matter where in the world that culture is.
Basically, has there ever been non-believers rationalize down to agreement with the bible's story?
Yeah. The guy who wrote "Who Moved the Stone?" for the resurrection. "A Skeptic’s Search for God" by Ralph Muncaster. There have been others, and you'll want to dig them out because if I do I'll never finish this (lame, yeah, I know. But I've got a family waiting for dinner in a couple of hours).
Abraham lived over 2000 years. Isaac lived almost as long.
This has been dealt with.
Do any other documents, anywhere, ever, even with the most infinite stretches of imagination and interpretation, does ANYTHING say this is possible?
Josephus talks about Jesus' rising from the dead around 200 AD, and he wasn't a Christian but writing a history book.
Not that they in particular did it, it's really easy to say "that was before document history." But, according to the bible, and without ages and ages of digging, the overall life span of human degrades over time (as a result of sin), and these totally OUTRAGEOUS lifespans do, in fact, continue onto the first civilizations.
It ended at Noah's Flood; it's interesting to add up people's life spans - Adam was still alive when Noah was born, but all the guys in the geneology (excpet Noah) were dead when the rain started. Noah was 600yo at the flood, but the longevity decreases steadily in the downslope of an almost perfect sine wave from there (one person throws it off). Do how much documentation would survive in a flood that lasted a year? The 40 days and nights was just long it rained. The civilizations up to then were all drowned, and the decreasingly long lives afterwards might not have been as important as to who was king of Sumeria and such.
Moving on... On the question of predestination, god knowing our hearts, inside and out.
Predestination means it was scripted beforehand and wow - look! - you're doing it. Your choice (free will) at the same time. Odd, isn't it?
This one I was also horribly vague on. If he understands the end, we are unnecessary.
That depends on what God is doing. It raises the question, "What are people necessary for to God?" What is your take? What does the Bible say?
Infinite wisdom and knowledge ends us at a point where... why bother?
Are you talking about the end of a mortal life or the conclusion of wisdom. Sorry, I'm a little dense here (and probably elsewhere. I'm peddling as fast as I can and giving it my best shot. I hope it's helping you somehow).
Not just a point where/when/why did jesus have to die for us, simply... Why bother? Keep in mind, our exhistance as humans, to an ETERNAL being, is a flicker.
Not if that person has an eternal soul. What does God want from us? From you? For eternity?
So... if you whack your foot with a hammer, it's gunna hurt. Thought experiment complete. This is because you are limited in wisdom, but wise enough to know hitting yourself with hammers is unpleasent. With INFINITE wisdom, this human race lacks real end-game purpose, because it's simply... understood. Not by us, but by the things that creates our purpose.
The Bible tells us what the end game is. Or at least, it gives you the information that's next to the end game and you can see the shadow from there. See Ephesian 1:3-6, 12,14 and 2:4-7 for starters, but I suspect there's even more to it that I haven't dug out of Scripture yet.
And God is the only One who created our purpose - to know God and enjoy Him forever, as it is put by the Westminster Divines (a whole big group of godly men who were Bible scholars and spent five years writing the Westminster Confession of Faith; a dandy tool for understanding the Bible and what God wanted us to know from it. It's a Reformation thing).
Am I answering your questions properly? Sometimes I'm not clear what you want, but that could be my problem, not yours.
For me to admit to a belief in god, it only makes sense that he understands the human creation very well, but not infinitely.
Sorry, I'm not following your logic. What does your belief have to do with God's understanding or lack thereof?
Let me ask you this: can a being be God who is limited in any way?
I'm going to tie back to this in a moment, after presented the next piece of my little puzzle.
I asked, stupidly, no less, "Why won't god answer some prayers?" Giving amputees as an example. This needs to be rephrased.
"Why will god never, ever, under any circumstance, answer a prayer that is outside the realm of coincidence or human capability?" I.E., why will god never again, since moses and the times of bible actually HAPPENING, not the period in which is was written, in which undeniable acts of gods seem to be no more, perform a true miracle? A miracle that cannot be explained to coincidence, that cannot be done by man? To part a sea, to send an angel, to reveal himself despite the infinite pleas of his people? It seems as though the bible is supposed to be enough for us to suffice.
Good questions. Is God limited to always doing the same thing over and over? What is it that He wants from people? Even the people who watched the Red Sea swallow the Egyptian army sinned against God in unbelief later - the quail episode, the grumbling about the water, and then the panic about the "giants" in the Promised Land. God got so ticked He let them all die in the desert (except the two men who believed Him) and then led their children into Israel. You'd think seeing the ten plagues make bloody water, flies, frogs, locusts, hail, fire from the sky, and first borns dying in every family without the sign on the door would make believers of them permanently. But it didn't. So why isn't God doing stuff like that now?
The Bible says that all the things that happened in the OT were for the benefit of the people from the NT time. So there's a time element involved, and God isn't a one-trick pony. What is He doing now? In countries where Christianity is just getting a foothold, there are stories of miracles happening. Healing (faked? Could be) and rising from the dead (hard to fake). Dreams of God telling people about Himself, to the amazement of missionaries who are first to go in and find people already believing. I can't document these, I just hear the stories from friends who are missionaries to weird places (don't ask). You'll have to take that one on my integrity, and you don't know me, so ask around any missionaries. Call Wycliffe Bible Translators (http://www.wycliffe.org/ContactUs.aspx). God started some cultures with dreams and visions and signs and wonders, and doesn't seem to be doing that now in America. Maybe it's because we have a Bible to read? It's conjecture on my part now, but worth thinking about.
Tying in with predestination, we know god can perform true miracles. To make things happen outside the ream of coincidence or human ability, to defy our strict laws of physics, motion, and time, and to intervene? Knowing he could, history and our worldly observations tell us that he hasn't. The things that happen do not happen arbitrarily, but follow a strict set of rules. Why is god so unwilling to reveal himself?
I can't answer that. God says He is higer than us like the heavens are above the earth, and He doesn't tell us everything. Maybe He has on this one and I just haven't learned it yet. Christians (hopefully) keep growing and learning all their lives, so maybe this one will come up next year. But what I don't know I can relax about because of what I do know: He is God and He is good.
I'll take your question one step further - why did Jesus teach in parables so the crowds wouldn't understand Him? Yeah, it was deliberate. Matthew 13:15 God plays a deep game.
Also, in response to amputees having limbs grow back with miraculous healing, I googled and googled, yahoo'd once, and I asked jeeves. Nothing. Could you provide some hard evidence of this? On a lighter note, some of the prostetic limbs now-a-days are fascinating.
I've never heard any evidence of this happening, either. I've heard people talk about having a short leg lengthened, and I was skeptical. If someone could show me some numbers and photos or a peer-reviewed scientific journal article I might believe it, but it's too subjective and people aren't all on the up and up. Just because there are liars doesn't mean there isn't something real going on, and even when something real is going on doesn't mean others aren't going to lie about it.
Now, to address the "thou shalt not kill" contradiction. "Thou shalt not kill unless the person we deem holy enough to speak directly to god (pope) tells us it's "ok" to kill these people because they're sinners." This, once again, seems like a facade. So, a bunch of holy people go sit alone and meditate, and walk out with gods permission for Genocide? And the bible tells me to trust these people? Do what?
Who said this? Jesus stands between God the Father as Intercessor, and the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groans too deep for words (Rom.8:26). Anyone can talk to God. And God doesn't just kill sinners, and in the times since the resurrection of Christ, neither do Christians. That's the job of government; all the Church can do is excommunicate.
Any religious body that is doing genocide is in serious sin, and I wouldn't trust them as they have serious moral problems. You're back to the shun principle (1 Cor. 5:11).
The whole point here is that God says we are all sinners. He didn't wipe us out so our blood could pay our debt of sin, but He became a man and died innocently so His righteousness could be imputed to us. That's a legal term. It means the Judge of the universe has banged His gavel and declared you not guilty because blood was shed to pay the debt. Even though it wasn't your blood. Jesus paid the sin, you get the righteousness. The great swap. And that's what God does to sinners. The only hitch is, He said His blood is enough; do you trust Him that it's paid? Your answer will show up in how you live your life, like a sinner trying to do enought to be worthy, or like a forgiven sinner given worthiness as a free gift?
Yes, the crusades were not part of the bible, that was a bit of misinformation and a little spin coming from me. The Crusades are the work of those people in the paragraph previous. The ones who said god said it was ok. Just like every other "holy war." God is a mighty scary commander and chief and, in my eyes, makes great leverage.
Yeah; what do you do in a war when both sides think God is on their side?
Now, onto things like the great flood and the age of the earth and the falsities of the word, written before anyone could fathom the tools of the future. I was asked where I got a 6,000 year old earth. I got it from my asking of questions. I've never seen it the in the bible, nor has anyone else (it's not there). But, many christian scholars agree with this logic, as this... http://www.independencebaptist.org/6,000%20Year%20Old%20Earth/6,000_year_old_earth.htm ... is the standing argument for it.
Bishop Usher. He had a point, adding up the geneology, but the problem is, Hebrew is a pretty loosey-goosey language to begin with (opposed to Koine Greek of the NT, which is one of the most precise languages ever devised by mankind) and you don't know if there are other generations not mentioned. Plus, not all generations are 25 years. So it was a guess, and entertaining, but not Gospel. And the nonChristians have been making hay with it for years. Personally I don't know any Christians (and I know lots and have for years) who take it seriously, so I take issue with "many Christian scholars."
We just don't know.
Carbon dating, by the way, is one way of measuring age. Argon dating will give you an age of ten years for the earth, if I'm remembering correctly. Go figure. The guy who invented carbon dating, Dr. Libby (Libbey?) said it wasn't accurate beyond 6000 years anyway. Secular scientists bases fossil ages on layers, and geologists base layer ages on fossils. We just don't know.
Now, for the counter argument. Everything we measure, or observe, outside of the bible, totally disagrees with it.
Here's a "fun" thing to do: write down what you see in the Bible as definitive, and find the references on countering it and agreeing with it. I think you'll find this is a broad statement that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Maybe start with archeology? There's been a lot of that (like, Hittites and King David. In the early 1900s, I think it was Harvard that said the Hittites never existed and the Bible made that up. I've heard you can get a college degree in Hittite history now; I'd like to hear if that's not so).
Our observations put the earth at about 4.5 million years ago.
Half Lives. Long story is here http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-08/965364844.Es.r.html
Basically, when a radioactive material is formed, it starts to degrade due to it's inherent instability. It degrades in half lives. The more radioactive it is, the faster it degrades. Say, for example, we take an element with a half life of 10 years. It starts at 100%. 10 years passes, it's at 50%. 20 years pass, it's at 25%. 30 years pass, it's at 12.5%, and so forth. Looking at what we have here on earth, naturally occurring elements, measure them against newly created elements, coincides with the "Old Earth" theory. This, I feel, is most substantial and repeatable.
But you don't know how much you started with. How about a rock that's partly uranium and partly something else. How can figure it?
There are many other indicators, the ice in greenland, coral growth, etc. http://www.religioustolerance.org/oldearth.htm has many, many more details, with the common counter-arguments.
There are lots of websites for knocking Christian beliefs, and I think there's a number of people who propagandize in the name of science when they are prooftexting, so to speak (making the facts fit a preconceived agenda). And there are a slough of websites explaining Christian beliefs, and it grieves me that many are aimed at children. This does a great disservice. Why was Michael Faraday (possibly the most brilliant scientist ever) a believer? Pascal? Pasteur? Einstein? It's not like there aren't diaries from these guys that talk about their faith in the Christian-Judeo God.
I hear reports about Global Warming, and saw Al Gore talking in an unseasonal snow storm. The polar bears have been studied in 13 or so groups: some have stayed the same population, some have lost, and some have gained numbers (oddly enough, in the areas of greatest Arctic melting). And what about the Anarctic cold getting worse? They mentioned a big iceburg breaking off, and melting ice doesn't break like that, burt melts on the surfaces. More likely the water underneath receeded because maybe the water is now ice somewhere else? I've heard that for the South Pole getting colder as the North Pole warms up. I should look up the numbers. The government used to pay for temperature mapping in my area, for years, and recently stopped it. The trend is our summers are getting shorter because we're getting colder. Pffft. Thirty years ago the news was in a panic about Global Cooling! You can look that one up).
Also, one of the responders here stated, in response to my "All the water in the world couldn't cover mt. everest" said that the mountains could have been formed by the flood. This is not true. Water disolves earth. The ocean floor changes constantly with the tide, but "underwater mountains" are quite solid, as they are formed by the earth's plates pushing against each other with such force, that the only direction left to go is up. No amount of water, or current, could stack a mountain with such a sharp, defined peak, 8,500 meters in the sky. That's just a no.
Are you saying the above, or are you quoting someone? We don't know what was there at first. Maybe Everest was taller originally? <shrug> We don't know. Tides affect shallow water; there are deep currents that do stuff, but yeah, there's things moving around underwater. Water can act as a medium for moving silt and small particles around with currents, but the big movers are the landslides, volcanos, continental drift and earthquakes.
It's a little presumptuous to say we understand all the things that make this globe tick; it's a complicated engine and we don't know everything yet. The more you learn, the less you realize you know.
Also, the idea of this ark, would of absolved all civilization (that was the idea, I think), and we would have SOME proof of this occurance,
Absolved means to forgive sin or wrong-doing. Please reword this as there is something important on your mind.
and life would have started, with ALL species of life, stranded on a single continent, without means (other than flying creatures) of reproducing on a different continent. Somewhere, over 40 days and 40 nights, a larger marine species would have died inexplicably inland, as the tides would have changed DRAMATICALLY, fish would have had NO sense of direction, and somewhere, one would have died leaving a whale or octopus corpse in some wierd ass location we couldn't explain. We haven't found any of this... Why?
Who says we haven't? There are fossil beds of animals all lying in a group that died together en masse . A whole bunch at the same time? Why? Maybe their corpses drifted down together into the mud when they were killed together. To make a whole fossil, an animal has to die in a way that the body is not ripped by predators/carrion eaters and then quickly covered with water so the minerals dissolved in water can start replacing bones.
I'm thinking, too, of whales swimming up the Sacromento River. You see whales stranding themselves on beaches sometimes, and no one is sure why.
Deermous, in response to my argument of "God will never answer some prayers" and the he answer all prayers in "Yes, no, and wait." My gripe is with the infinite circle if "easy explanations" it creates. Any scenario can be answered in this manner, and you would NEVER know the difference if the answer is no. So, when there is no answer, and no coincidence occurs, you can assume "no" or "keep waiting." You are always satisfied in this manner.
But if it's true (and as far as I know it is, although my salvation doesn't depend on it being true) then why would that be a problem? If the answer is "no" then things continue as they were (assuming you ask God to change something). Even the Apostle Paul asked God three times to change a problem he was having, and God said, "no" and then gave him some further words: "for My grace is sufficient for you." The Apostle Peter, writing under the inspiration of God, wrote that the Gospel was simple and would trip up people because of that. People were looking for something more complicated; maybe because that gratified their sense of intelligence. Jesus said you had to have the faith of a little child to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. ! Corinthians 1 says "But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise" and the Living Translation (I love this) says God chose "the nothings and the nobodies" so that salvation obviously came from God and no one could boast.
So my reply to you is, if it's simple maybe that doesn't mean it's wrong. "Occam's Razor," well accepted for years, says the simpliest explanation is most likely the right one.
These are present on all forms of religion and I beg the question, with INFINITE power (that's a BIG word), why no? Why suffer? with infinite power, there's simply no excuse for it.
But you don't know. Job complained to God, and God said, (paraphrased): "OK, here I am. Now stand up like a man and answer My questions." There's a whole bunch of them, and Job couldn't answer one about how God ran the universe. Job said, "I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know....Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes." (Job 38-42).
You're a 21 year old person, barely an adult, and you are telling the world and God how His world has to be. This doesn't seem a little presumptuous to you? If it doesn't, maybe you aren't as wise as you bragged you were (welcome to the club - this has happened to me, too, so I'm not ragging on you. Just sayin').
Why does God allow suffering? Why didn't God answer Paul's repeated prayer? Maybe He has a reason that our minds 1) can't fathom or 2) is none of our business or 3) God is doing something good that we'll see later (the crucifixion didn't look like the world's best news when it was happening) and this is a time, when we can't understand, that we lean back on knowing that God has never screwed up before and that He can be trusted now.
< Message edited by deermousie -- 6/8/2008 1:07:06 AM >
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/8/2008 12:45:10 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/26/2007
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Part 2
I removed one line of yours because it was obscene and I couldn't figure out what you were saying. There's plenty of stuff still here to work with.
There is no "answer" here in that the circle is infinite, in the "Yes, no, wait" logic, it always works because there's always a rational explanation. My real question is why would that ever be necessary, in every religion known to man, (other than those that preach self-awareness) unless the original writers knew the fallacy and needed to explain a manner in which god is ALWAYS there for you? This is what leads me to believe god is not so individually involved with us, and more guides humanity as a whole. This school of though leaves room for suffering, starvation, and other attrocities, and there is no need to "blame god." (as I've found myself doing.) It does, however, remove that sense of comfort that god cares about you in your own, special form.
But this removes the sovereignty of God and violates the personal nature of His relationships with individuals. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not just the nation of Israel. He is the God of Deermousie, not just Christendom. If He created your body, with all it's fail-safe mechanisms and intricacies, why couldn't He be the God of individuals? He called Abraham out and sent him to a place he didn't know, and then made a nation (actually, several) out of him. And why would simple yes/no/wait answers to prayer dictate an impersonal God? You don't think a person praying over the dying body of their child isn't intensely interested in the yes/no/wait? Maybe I'm not understanding you. The suffering of Christ opened the door of salvation for the whole world of individuals. He's not just throwing you a clinche to make you feel better while He destroys or blesses a whole nation.
And by the way, God does work with nations as well. Read Deut. 28 regarding how He promises to bless the nation that honors Him, and how He'll curse the nation that goes after other gods and turns away from Him. But He's not exclusive from individuals.
Now, onto a school of thought where my ideals meet with God, and unify. This, I want to know, is it blasphemy?
You're creating an equality here, so unless you are Jesus, yeah, I'd call it blasphemy. Or at least a foolish presumption. Taking on God's ways and striving to live them moment by moment would make you out to be a humble and wise man who is blessed and always learning more (and is a blessing to others. The vertical relationship spills over to the horizontal relationship. Blessings ensue, and maybe hilarity, too).
I do not (anymore) fear god.
The fear in Scripture is reverential awe, not terror. Terror is mentioned, like in Psalm 73, where the wicked person dies and is suddenly swept away in terror, but it doesn't say specifically what causes it. You're in a good place; God doesn't want you in terror of Him.
I do not think god ever wanted us to fear him.
Scripture says He does, and He commands it. But again, it's reverential awe, not terror we're talking about.
You can affect someone who loves you equally and with the same methods as someone who fears you, UNLESS you want them to serve a cause they are in direct disagreement with. For instance, if someone loves you with all their heart, and you ask them to run a worldly brother, a fellow human, through with a sword. He may. His own personal convictions and reservation will play much stronger in this decision than if it was based on fear, for their love for you in their own, created by them, and is free for them to hold it's own value and is free, totally, to question. Lets say they fear you, by pain of death and suffering, be it you have a gun to their head, or whatever, and you ask of them, again, to run that same brother through with a sword. There's no room for personal values to apply, there is "action or punishment." This defines christianity, the "action or punishment" view.
You've set up a strawman argument here - you made something false up and are tearing it down. There is no punishment for Christians. All that we deserved was poured out on Christ on the cross. Yeah, we get consequences in a world of cause and effect (the hammer blow on the leg that hurts) but you misunderstand the nature of God and His offer of life.
A person might, out of love of a good person, give up their own life for them, but to kill someone else takes a selfishness of trying to stay alive oneself by staying out of the bad graces of someone more powerful who might order a death. A person who loves might be willing to die to avoid not killing someone else.
Remember the old "10 people on a liftraft" thing they used to do in schools; you know, you're on this liferaft and have got a lawyer and a doctor and a mother - who are you going to throw overboard because there's one too many people for the whole thing to stay afloat? Well, the right answer is: you jump overboard yourself to save the lives of the others. And this is what God calls us to: self-sacrifice for others. It's what parents do (if they're doing their job), it's what lovers do, it's what Jesus did. He jumped into hell, and He whooped death and killed it so it can't hurt you anymore. He didn't have to. That's love.
You can simply "be good" or "be noble." there must be action, you must act for god, to believe god, to accept jesus.
Did you leave off a "not"?
If not, then, you're 2000 years too late. The Ten Commandments as a basis of salvation when out the window when Jesus rose from the dead. God calls us to "be" before we ever "do." Our doing is based on the fact of who we became when God put His name and His imputed righteousness on us.
Mother Teresa is theoretically burning in hell right, right next to Adolf Hitler. If you do not take this action, there will be punishment,
I'm confused; what are you saying? Mother Teresa took action and spent her life ministering to dying poor people in the name of Jesus. That's a godly thing, as God is about people and making life better for them.
and for that, we are taught fear. I believe this is wrong, fundamentally, for the human race, and this was NEVER god's plan.
If you mean terror, then I agree. God became a man and died in torture when He didn't have to so you could have a real life and be in relationship with Him in love. It's free for you, it cost God plenty.
You seem to have a passing acquaintance with the Bible, but some of it is tweaked, so it's hard to make a bold statement on what God's plan could never be. Just sayin'.
I do not fear god. I've plead my case, I've talked to god, what he has shown me has lead me away from established religion is general, not just Christianity.
Hey, I agree. There's a lot of "religion" that is blasphemous, and frankly, unmanly. Why would anyone want it? Real Christianity is a relationship with the God of intellect, logic and creativity who is on your side. He made you, He knows what a man can be, and He'll lead you there in joy. There's a Christian book out for men called, "Born to Be Wild" and I think that captures the essence of what God is doing and how He leads us. We were made to become complete - intellectually, morally (deep down satisfaction), physically (God created sex - how much more can He give you?) and emotionally. In Him we are becoming complete, never finished here but always learning and gaining and finally, face to face with Him, consummated.
If god is leading you away from Christianity, then it's not the Christian-Judeo God but a lying spirit. If God is leading you away from self-satisfied, pompous, empty strutting, then yeah, you could have ahold of the real thing. Or He's got ahold of you. Buckle up good, because it will be a wild ride. Prepare to die. And to live, like you never knew you could.
quote:
I'll take your question a step further: why would God save any of us? Look at us - a more wretched hive of villany and scum you couldn't find anywhere (to borrow a great phrase - I hope I got it right). We're sinners, in love with death and hiding from the light. Created in perfection and blowing it the first chance we got, and all the following generations finding new ways to pervert it. All we deserve is death and hell. That's the bad news, and it's real.
This is not real. Where there is good, there is evil.
To understand descriptions, we have to describe what something is not, thus, comparisons. God existed, however, before there was evil and before there was mankind who needed the props of contrast. Evil will not always exist, but the character of God will not change. Shakespeare captured it so elegantly when he wrote: "Love is not love that alteration finds." Amen.
God calls us sinners.
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior.
Titus 3: 3-6
The bad news always ends with the good news.
I look upon death and despair and I feel pain, and I know I'm not the only one. There are those that embrace evil for personal gain, there are those that fight evil for nothing, not even glory. We are, in amazing truth, a miraculous balance. My mother, god bless her, has worked her hands to the bone, for strangers and the unworthy. To be just and good, and for no other reason, and for that, I shower her with appreciation. She is not the only one. I do not believe we are inherently evil, and the idea of "original sin" of which we are born with, is also common in ALL religions. "To be ignorant and holy is not enough, you must repent for sin you are inherent with." This brings it's relevance to everyone, makes it inescapable.
Was your mom a Christian? What motivated her? She sounds wonderful.
Now, consider all these at once. We all sin. We all must find god. We all must give to god,
You were doing good until here. We have nothing to give to God. We are lost, bankrupt, empty, and blowing it constantly. And we can't find God. But He allows Himself to be found by those who are not looking for Him. Our sin nature makes us dead to God. Talk to a corpse and see if it answers you. I used to work in a hospital, and saw lots of dead people. Not one of them ever talked to me, or responded to me, or reached out to me in any way. Neither can we to God. He has to reach out and grab us. When we are dismayed at our sin (foremost rejecting Him) and see Him on the cross in our place, then suddenly it makes sense and we are overwhelmed in gratitude and humility. Humility because we come with empty hands. We don't have one good thing that He didn't give us.
be it spiritually or financially (god always needs money, or so many of his "followers" exploit),
I respectfully disagree - God made us to have needs, and He uses some of us to provide the needs for others. That's why we give to the poor. That's why we support the elders/pastor who teaches us and that's why we give money to missionaries so they can go elsewhere and tell people God loves them. God doesn't need our money - He owns the universe. But He chooses to use some of ous as agents of grace. It's funny, but it works. It also gets abused by liars and cheats, so we have to be discerning.
None of are innocent, We all sin, We MUST follow his command, BUT he only tells the highest members of the church to then tell the followers.
I think that went out the window when Martin Luther translated the Latin Bible (read only by priests) into German (and then by others into every language so the average person could read for themselves) and then started schools so everyone could learn to read and not just the priests and scribes. Did you know even kings before Luther usually couldn't read and write!? But the NT calls all believers priests. 1 Pet. 2:9
Does this not seem inherently corrupt?
Yup. Even in OT times, the OT was read out loud to the assembled multitudes. Everyone knew what the Scriptures said.
When did we, the people, become some distant from direct, divine intervention and inspiration?
Even motel rooms have Bibles in the drawer. I bet you have several in your house (even if you don't read them) Or your mom does. There's no excuse for a believer not reading a Bible daily; in fact, Jesus said that if His word abides (dwells, lives with you constantly) in you, you can ask what you want and He'll do it.
Why do we not have the direct contact? Look in this forum at how many people wonder if they've heard from god, or just heard something from within themselves.
I don't know. He sent us a letter, so to speak, so He's not out of touch. You can pray and things might happen. But face to face He has done with very few people. Like one. Not counting Jesus.
The higher powers (pope) are divine enough to say, with 100% truth (supposedly), and that is not their divination, this is the god's law.
Well, I'm a Protestant, so we'll move on.
Now I know, the time of god saying "kill the islams" is done
Uh, when did God say kill the Muslims?
(though, apparently, he told Bush to do it).
Let's not get off on this, OK. It's another subject entirely.
Simply because the church lacks real strength to lead rebellion in today's day and age, but in more recent history, the pope has to "converse" with god about clergymen touching kids, gay marriage, action in the middle east, etc. But, it was only him, no one else is allowed this "access." Why?
I'm not Catholic.
Deermouse said that we could never hope to understand god's love or god's hate.
I can't find this in former posts - which # was it? I don't recall ever talking about God's hate.
With infinite wisdom and -forgiveness-, this implies he is quite above "hate."
Actually, God said He loved Jacob but hated Esau, before either of them were even born. But I don't know if God means by hate what you and I mean.
Hate is an emotion for the uneducated and ignorant.
Not if God does it. He created the world out of nothing - ex nihilo. Not the action of ignorance.
Infinite wisdom and forgiveness allows understanding of sin to come and inherent forgiveness.
Wisdom allows understanding (that's kind of backwards since wisdom is morally applied understanding) of sin, but forgiveness doesn't allow forgiveness. That's a tautology. Forgiveness has an element to paying a price someone else deserves, for their benefit. I won't pretend to understand it completely because frankly I'm still learning.
Why is it god finds punishment necessary,
He doesn't. No, actually, He did, He just took it on Himself at the cross. It's a done deal. Forgiven. Forever.
when it's said we reach heaven, we gain wisdom beyond our human form.
I'm curious how you got this. You've got a lot of pieces of Scripture (sometimes twisted) but many of your conclusions would be considered heretical. The news is actually far better than you've been believing - take heart!
I would assume this wisdom is quite enough to absolve and previous urge to do a foolish thing like greed, lust, pride, gluttony, sloth, wrath, or sloth?
The blood of Christ absolves sin and guilt. Wisdom is something else.
Why is it he does not love us enough, in this "infinite" love, to understand we may fail in this life, and sin may overcome us, but the gift of his purification would set us free?
He doesn't understand we may fail? Humans have done nothing but fail, since the Garden of Eden until present time. Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world - I think God knew what was coming, and the main thrust of His interaction with us throughout history was to nullify the guilt and consequences of our failure.
If he is wise enough to understand we may succumb, why is he not wise enough to forgive, inherently, infinitely, without cause? The punishment for this failure, eternity of suffering, by the way.
Forgive without cause? I hope as you're reading this, Modes-T, you've got a better picture than you had before. This is not a slam.
Perhaps you are wondering why people stumble around all their lives and then go to hell? It's because they refused God's hard work in their behalf and their felt need to know something in life was bigger and better than they were and insisted on doing it their own way. God made a HUGE sacrifice and some people just brush it off and say, "No thanks. I'll do it myself." God has made every move He could short of robbing us of free will so we could know Him and live in His love and blessing. If a person refuses, God doesn't force them to be forgiven and go to heaven.
Now... all this being said...
... Will god forgive me in the end? I'm afraid I've given up in a lot of ways, of finding this blissful, blind faith, due to my god-given pre-disposal toward asking "Why."
Ask the "why" when you look at the suffering God on the cross; it all starts there. God says it's enough to clear your record of every spot. Sin and it's payment is the door to all the rest. Then you can ask all the other "why's", but I'm guessing you'll find they weren't all that important after all. What you can see is temporary; what you can't see is eternal.
Years back I heard what you heard here, but I ran away from it. God said I was a sinner, and all that means was I missed the bull'seye of His moral perfection. I was imperfect. So there I was, broken. I tried to pull myself up by my boot straps, but all I could manage was selfish ambition and greed and conceit. I finally couldn't take it anymore and prayed for the first time: God, I can't run away from You anymore. You let Jesus die in my place. You can be the Boss now. I'm yours. Thanks for forgiving my sin although I don't even know what that means.
I was broken, empty-handed and lost. I had nothing to give God but my brokenness. He took it. He poured life into me, in ways I still don't entirely understand, but something is really different and it keeps leaking out where I can feel or see it sometimes. All the good I have now, I got as a gift from Him, so I can't boast about anything. I don't have to be the greatest person in the world now, I just have to be His. I can mentally crawl up into His lap; I'll do it for real some day. And the whole world is my play toy, science is fun, people can a pain but God says to love them even if they don't love back and He'll show you why it was important (hint: He loves you that way, too). And some people will love you back truly; what a treasure when it's found. Life can be grasped by the horns and I can enjoy the ride, shouting all the way, or quiet because sometimes it hurts. He knows that, too; He's got the scars to prove it.
Spiritually dead people don't respond when you pile a half ton of brick on their chest. God has made a party and you've been given an invitation. He calls us, woos us, bugs us, hounds us. It won't cost you a cent but it will cost you your life. But that's OK, because He'll give you His in its place.
I lift my lemonade to you, Modes-T - you're more intellectually honest than I was in your shoes. Figure out what the Bible says and doesn't say and I think you'll have it. Born to be wild. God's way.
Not important, it's just bugging me. I know octopus's don't have bones, and therefore, would not be in the fossil record from any such event. Scratch those, but whales, sharks, and other things. I just saw this when I was re-reading.
Actually, besides teeth and jaws, sharks don't have bone, either. It's cartilage. No fossils. But those huge jaws are scary enough. The funny thing is some fossils have skin and feather impressions in the rock. Huh. I'd love to know more.
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Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: My queries outweigh my Faith, help? - 6/8/2008 3:29:02 AM
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BibleBased
Posts: 67
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline
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Modes-T : as my user name on this site says i'm bible- based. My advise to you is to pick up the bible alone, stop asking flawed humans, and trust YOURSELF to understand what it DOES say and what it DOES NOT.
Your posts suggest that humans have messed up your thinking on the bible and God, yet you keep taking the same route and asking lots of flawed humans from different MAN-MADE denominations for answers.
I tell both new believers and imature ones too, God gave us all we need to know in this life in his WORD, the bible. The so called 'best' minister/ pastor/ priest or commentary writer is just a FLAWED human writing man's cleverness.
God gave us ETERNAL WISDOM - unchanging. Please stop asking others. Read it daily YOURSELF. Slowly you will see what is TRUE and what is not. An hour spent on web sites, would be much better spent reading God's WORD/ the bible. This is the best loving advise i can give you. God bless, BibleBased.
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