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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:06:04 PM
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NealIRC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
And now we are curious as to whether you, personally, follow the remainder of the Levitical law and if not, why not?
I 2 reply in p.m. since it might drastically be off topic.
quote:
quote:
Clearly the law finds it a sense of immoral as well.
It's a health issue, not a moral one.
Well the thing is, such state governments don't give the right for 17 year-olds to consent to tattoos. But they can when they turn 18. So I didn't think of it as a health issue.
It might also be a health issue, but I'll have to look into that into what exactly are the health disadvantages to it (besides what it will look like when 1 grows old).
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:13:36 PM
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Solus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NealIRC
quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
Yes it does. It is a little clearer in a literal translation (YLT). The tattoos (prints) that it refers to are markings of/to pagan gods done at a person's death. Just like the cuts. They were cutting themselves, marking symbols of/to their pagan gods and idols.
I meant if it made an exception to tattoos that resemble Christianity.
So it says all tattoos are not allowed. You say it does make an exception, but I don't see it.
It does not say that tattoo's are not allowed. It does forbid tattooing the dead to heathen gods but not getting a tattoo that is unofensive while still alive. That was actually a common practice in the early church.
And I believe that when Jesus died, Leviticus was made void. Unless of course you believe that Jesus wants us to stone homosexuals and rebellious children.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:15:58 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NealIRC
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
And now we are curious as to whether you, personally, follow the remainder of the Levitical law and if not, why not?
I 2 reply in p.m. since it might drastically be off topic.
quote:
quote:
Clearly the law finds it a sense of immoral as well.
It's a health issue, not a moral one.
Well the thing is, such state governments don't give the right for 17 year-olds to consent to tattoos. But they can when they turn 18. So I didn't think of it as a health issue.
It might also be a health issue, but I'll have to look into that into what exactly are the health disadvantages to it (besides what it will look like when 1 grows old).
The health issues are hepatitis. As well as having a thousand small needle insertions can be an infection risk. Although not morally wrong in any way (unless you are an old testament jew tattooing the dead to heathen gods), they do pose a health hazard.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:17:09 PM
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NealIRC
Posts: 68
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
quote:
ORIGINAL: NealIRC
quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
Yes it does. It is a little clearer in a literal translation (YLT). The tattoos (prints) that it refers to are markings of/to pagan gods done at a person's death. Just like the cuts. They were cutting themselves, marking symbols of/to their pagan gods and idols.
I meant if it made an exception to tattoos that resemble Christianity.
So it says all tattoos are not allowed. You say it does make an exception, but I don't see it.
It does not say that tattoo's are not allowed.
Sure it does.
"or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD." (Leviticus 19:28.)
quote:
It does forbid tattooing the dead to heathen gods but not getting a tattoo that is unofensive while still alive.
Correct.
quote:
That was actually a common practice in the early church.
And I believe that when Jesus died, Leviticus was made void.
Right, and there might be some Bible verses backing that up.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:18:13 PM
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NealIRC
Posts: 68
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
The health issues are hepatitis. As well as having a thousand small needle insertions can be an infection risk. Although not morally wrong in any way (unless you are an old testament jew tattooing the dead to heathen gods), they do pose a health hazard.
Thank you! I did not know. I'll be sure to read up on Wikipedia.
More reasons to be against tattoos. Thanks again.
Neal C.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:20:14 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3906
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NealIRC
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
Clearly the law finds it a sense of immoral as well.
It's a health issue, not a moral one.
Well the thing is, such state governments don't give the right for 17 year-olds to consent to tattoos. But they can when they turn 18. So I didn't think of it as a health issue.
It might also be a health issue, but I'll have to look into that into what exactly are the health disadvantages to it (besides what it will look like when 1 grows old).
When you get tattooed, you must sign a waiver releasing the shop in question from liability in case of infection, scarring, etc. Because this is a permanent mark on your body, states typically prevent anyone not of age from getting such a mark and signing the waiver.
For the record, minors are allowed to get body piercings in some states. But to do so, they must have a parent present and yes, they must show birth certificates.
And for the record, why does anyone care what a tattoo looks like when you get old? I mean really?
_____________________________
I'm tired of signatures.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:28:18 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
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Where are y'all getting the message that the tattooing forbidden in Leviticus has to do with the "dead"??? Here's how the NKJV reads:
Lev. 19:28 - You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.
First, I don't see anything that says, "Don't cut or make markings or tattoos on the dead." The text reads "on your flesh"...obviously intended for the living readers.
Secondly, the part about tattoos is not related to the "dead"...it's a separate issue, as I read it. My commentary (Nelson's Study Bible) says: "Cutting one's flesh for the dead and tattooing (or perhaps painting) one's body had religious significance among Israel's pagan neighbors. In Israel, such practices were signs of rebellion against God."
Again, it goes back to God separating Israel from the pagan, idolotrous nations around them.
Read the surrounding scripture...don't take a verse, or fragment, out of context. Next, do some research to see what was going on around the Israelites at the time. What were the pagan nations doing in their idolotrous practices? Those were the things God was forbidding. Be separate...be holy...don't be like the pagans! Don't look like them, don't eat the same things they do, don't wear the same clothing they do, don't do anything that could associate you with them!
God had to be extremely explicit, specific and hair-splitting with Israel because they were just like us...a bunch of Philadelphia lawyers looking for, and finding, loopholes!
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:28:55 PM
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NealIRC
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Good point..
Edit: And DarleneSchreiber, good point also.
< Message edited by NealIRC -- 6/9/2008 4:35:24 PM >
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 4:32:03 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
And I believe that when Jesus died, Leviticus was made void. Unless of course you believe that Jesus wants us to stone homosexuals and rebellious children.
(Bolded by me!)
Huh??? Where is that written?
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 6:43:38 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1198
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
don't be like the pagans! Don't look like them, don't eat the same things they do, don't wear the same clothing they do, don't do anything that could associate you with them!
So, if I assume you are using this as a means of saying the Christian should not get tattoos, then surely we should also not break any of the commands found in Leviticus, correct?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 7:12:50 PM
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everythingat
Posts: 215
Joined: 2/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
I will not be wishy-washy and sit on the fence and say it's a "personal choice". I really don't think it is for a believer. Because if in doubt and/or if it will possibly cause a younger brother to stumble, it's not worth it and we could be judged severely. But it's a secondary issue, at best, and not something worth arguing over.
What if it was this judgment you made that caused a "younger brother" to stumble? What if an infant in Christ who had tattoos, or maybe just recently got a tattoo read this? And if this judgment contributed to them feeling less than because of a quick judgment made by someone who has been in Christ long enough to refer to others as "younger?"
Can you give an example of how a tattoo would cause another Christian to sin?
Whenever I wasn't a Christian, I could care less how people dressed, or what tattoos/piercings they had. It was actually the clean cut people I didn't trust, because those were the ones I was hurt the most by in my life. It was never a thought in my head..."Look at them, they dress so clean cut...they must be holy and separated for Christ!" In my world, the worst things came in the prettiest packages.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 9:13:42 PM
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edgibson
Posts: 169
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From: Then: upper NY, Now: NC
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Still, waiting.
Are christians to follow the Leviticus laws or not? This is a simple question.
PS, as to the Hepatitis and waivers. I have been with many many individuals getting a tattoo. Never have I seen any waivers. Never have I seen a reputable artist not follow universal precautions (autoclave, gloves, etc.) Lots of states now require health department inspections for tattoo establishments.
From the CDC website.
quote:
no data exist in the United States indicating that persons with exposures to tattooing alone are at increased risk for HCV infection. For example, during the past 20 years, less than 1% of persons with newly acquired hepatitis C reported to CDC's sentinel surveillance system gave a history of being tattooed.
_____________________________
Where are we going?
And why are we in this handbasket?
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 9:50:49 PM
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delete123
Posts: 769
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
Still, waiting.
Are christians to follow the Leviticus laws or not? This is a simple question.
PS, as to the Hepatitis and waivers. I have been with many many individuals getting a tattoo. Never have I seen any waivers. Never have I seen a reputable artist not follow universal precautions (autoclave, gloves, etc.) Lots of states now require health department inspections for tattoo establishments.
From the CDC website.
quote:
no data exist in the United States indicating that persons with exposures to tattooing alone are at increased risk for HCV infection. For example, during the past 20 years, less than 1% of persons with newly acquired hepatitis C reported to CDC's sentinel surveillance system gave a history of being tattooed.
They now have like a hospital what they call "clean" needles. They are disposable.
Sorry I do not believe that tattoos are forbidden. I have 2. 1 before I was saved and 1 after and the Holy Spirit not once has ever convicted me on it.
So if He (the HS) is convicting you on it, don't make your conviction apply to everyone, because He is applying it to you.
Jesus died for liberty and freedom from the laws, we live under Grace
CRH
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/9/2008 11:07:54 PM
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NealIRC
Posts: 68
Joined: 5/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
Still, waiting.
Are christians to follow the Leviticus laws or not? This is a simple question.
I think I answered your question.
But in any event, this is probably a good idea to start it's own thread.
Neal C.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 7:51:16 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Here's an question for anyone around here: Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?
Oh, dang...forget it! That's too Levitical! Never mind!
Are you influencing the culture? And if so, for better of worse?
I really would like to know which parts of Leviticus we are supposed to be following. The tattoo one, obviously, but what of the rest?
quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
Still, waiting.
Are christians to follow the Leviticus laws or not? This is a simple question.
I am also still waiting for an answer to my question...an answer that is not in the form of a question, please. And my question is not on Leviticus...it's just too "Levitical" for some, I'm sure.
So, for clairity's sake, here's my original question:
Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 9:18:23 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3906
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
I have been with many many individuals getting a tattoo. Never have I seen any waivers.
You didn't see them sign a waiver? It may have been on the aftercare sheet. I've never seen anyone get tattooed that didn't sign one. (Although this probably varies from state to state.)
quote:
Never have I seen a reputable artist not follow universal precautions (autoclave, gloves, etc.) Lots of states now require health department inspections for tattoo establishments.
Yep. And licenses can run in the $2000 range so yes, 99.9% of shops are really diligent about following all of those precautions and being prepared for inspections. (You don't know when you'll be inspected.)
_____________________________
I'm tired of signatures.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 10:38:22 AM
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jlp1
Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2008
From: Chicago
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quote:
I would hope that if you don't agree with Christians getting tattoos, you wouldn't judge those of us who have them. You don't know why they are there, and besides that, you don't what is in our hearts.
I got two tattoos before I came to the Lord. I won't get anymore, but I can't get rid of the ones I have. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a Christian. And as far as I see, they remind me of who I was before I came to Jesus.
Please don't judge you'll have no right!!!!, you all who are against tattoos sound like the pharisees and scribes. You'll have no clue as to why a person does what they do, I have one to cover a mark, it does not defined me.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 11:03:58 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
All we have to do is believe in him.
Solus,
Our Christian walk certainly begins with belief, but we certainly need to do more than believe. If our belief in Christ is genuine, certain works will follow along with a new behavior, different from the old man.
With that said, I've heard varying opinions on this matter. There are no explicit warnings against tatooing one's body. But then again, there are no specific prohibitions against smoking pot either. Or taking cocaine occasionally. Or sniffing glue. Or....or....or....fill in the blank. I know, extreme examples, I suppose. Tatooing can be taken to the extreme, though. Some people are addicted to it and get inked all over their body. So much so, that all one notices when looking at them are tatoos.
Here are some questions. Since the Bible says, "Do all that you do to the glory of God." (Yeah, for you nay sayers, I know, no one but Jesus was perfect) Now, since that is the case, I would ask, what is the motivation of those who get their body inked? Also, what would be the purpose of getting a tatoo in or near a private part of the body? (I know, almost nothing is private anymore.  ) And how would that be pleasing to God?
I ask these questions having taught in public high school. Girls will get tatoos right above their behinds (nice word  ) and wear low cut jeans so the tatoo is exposed. This is an indication to the boys out there that they are a "certain" kind of girl. It is also meant to arouse attention to that area and provoke a response from the opposite sex. Yeah, you get the idea. I think we could all unequivocably say this is not pleasing to God, and a Christian should not do this. Can I have an amen? (Knowing Crosswalk.con, me thinks someone will disagree, eh?)
Anyhow, I would conclude by saying that the motivation of one getting the tatoo, as well as the location of such, as well as the effect intended and produced are certainly factors in whether a Christian should well....get a tatoo.
And there be my two cents, or five cents, or whatever.
Heavendweller
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 11:09:51 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
I got two tattoos before I came to the Lord. I won't get anymore, but I can't get rid of the ones I have. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a Christian. And as far as I see, they remind me of who I was before I came to Jesus.
Lexie,
Me thinks the OP was specifically asking about Christians getting tatoos. That is, those who are getting them after they have come to faith in Christ.
You said you wouldn't get any now. Why is that?
Heavendweller
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 11:22:40 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
For me, it's all about being "in the world, but not of the world". We're to look different, act different, be different.
quote:
1love1God1way
Why are tattoos "of the world?"
How do we pick and choose what is "of the world" and what isn't?
These questions just provoked a thought. Why did the Apostle Paul admonish women not to wear gold or braid their hair? Now I've heard it said because prostitutes of the day had this kind of appearance. And therefore, St. Paul was instructing women not to even give an appearance as though they are a prostitute.
So, if we were to take this analogy, and let's say those women whom St. Paul instructed responded by saying "I don't care what others think. No one knows what's in my heart. And just because I braid my hair and wear gold, does not mean I am a prostitute. So, go stick your head in the sand, Pauly." What do y'all think of this analogy? Does it apply even somewhat to tatoos?
Now as to those unfortunate folks (or maybe not so unfortunate), who had their tatoos prior to being Christians, well....some might say "it's under the blood." Or, don't worry about it. Or, forget about it. You get my drift.
Heavendweller
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 12:01:31 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that is exactly where Jesus would have been hanging out, had He come today. Maybe not literally tattoo parlors, but certainly that kind of place. And He would be interested in reaching out to those people. He spoke to them on their terms, not in hyper-religious language. He was interested in reaching them where they were. He was reaching out into the dark places of the world.
If we look down on Christians who want to have greater access to these dark places, what does that say about our willingness to take the Gospel to all peoples?
Soooo.....the motivation for these Christians getting tatoos is to preach the Gospel? Is that what you're saying, Mr. Fribbles? I suppose then, that Christians should go inside strip joints, (sorry "Gentlemens' Clubs") where all those nasty sinners congregate, and preach the Gospel. Now that would take quite a bit of self-control and discipline. But yeah, I suppose some could have a calling to go inside strip joints and preach the Gospel. Course, I dunno how long they would be able to stay there without getting drawn into all the stimuli.
Now here's an idea (as regards your first comment). Christians taking their Bibles to those "seedy" places where tatoo "parlors" reside, and preaching the Gospel. All while getting a tatoo on one's behind.
Now that's really being unashamed for the Gospel and putting one's neck...er....behind out on the line.
And if Jesus were here today, I bet he'd have no problem walking into one of those tatoo joints and getting a tatoo. Now, I'm just wondering what kind of tatoo He would get. 
Heavendweller
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 12:12:03 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
The tattoo parlors (probably an outdated term) I've seen, without exception, are in places I would not want to venture.
quote:
1love1God1way
I've met some awesome people in these "shady" places.
Do you mean awesome Christians or awesome non-Christians or both?
Now, with that said. I've been to many "shady" places, while with my husband and other Christians. But our only reason for being there was to tell people about Jesus Christ. Not to get a tatoo, or to get drunk, or to watch strip tease, or to cop some drugs, or proposition the girls or guys of the night.
So again, one's motivation comes into play. Now if one lives in a bad neighborhood and just so happens to be a Christian, that is a different topic altogether. But to purposely go to a shady place merely to entertain oneself, well.....fill in the blanks. What kind of entertainment would they be lookin' fer anywho?
Heavendweller
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 12:18:26 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doc65
There is an excellent artist in town who is a lifelong Christian and he refuses to do "satanic" art or anything that could be a stumbling block to folks. A good artist, like him, should be able to tell you where the most painful spots are for a tat (such as the ankle, back of the hand, etc), how long the healing process is, possible complications, etc. Shop around, ask others who have been inked and go from there is my best advice.
Doc,
Are there certain areas of the body on which this lifelong Christian will not put tatoos? I don't want to be graphic. Read between the lines. IOW, are there areas of the body he could not tatoo because it would be too much of a temptation to him and a stumbling block/poor witness to the one getting the tatoo?
Heavendweller
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/10/2008 12:53:13 PM
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Doc65
Posts: 277
Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:
Are there certain areas of the body on which this lifelong Christian will not put tatoos?
To be frank, yes. However, he has been known to tattoo women who have undergone mastectomies so that they can conceal the scarring. Would he tattoo someone's genitals? No. And, as far as a temptation, he regards his work along the lines of an artist who works with nude models; it's his work and he views the human body as a creation of God, simply put...
All of this discussion about Lev. 19:28, on the other hand, is moot as the emphasis here seems to be on a comma which is just giving folks fits. The Hebrew uses no commas to begin with (it would translate best as "lacerations you shall not give in your flesh and impriniting writing you shall give in yourselves for souls" - in other words, you shouldn't tattoo yourself on behalf of the dead, e.g., worshipping the dead - nothing is said about a person getting a tattoo for other reasons.
Secondly, the words which are so often translated as "tattoo" (c'thoboth and ka'aka) do not necessarily indicate tattooing: c'thoboth translates literally as writing and ka'aka is either imprinting or incising the flesh - tattoo is a modern rendering of the word...
_____________________________
"The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, He enables me to go on the heights." Hab. 3:19
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