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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 7:10:30 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1240
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Mr. Fribbles, I think you just like to argue!
I can tell that because you contradict yourself!
And here I was thinking I just liked to defend the truth. ; )
I'm interested in learning where you find me contradicting myself.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 7:44:29 PM
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jlp1
Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2008
From: Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
Personally, I think tattoos look trashy, especially on women.....but that is all it is....my opinion.
But alas, I can find no Scriptural basis for saying "tattoos are wrong". So if that's your thing, have at it......
Have you seen everyone and have you seen every tattoo? NOOOOO, so don't say all look trashy because you have not seen all..... that is such a prejudice statement. That's like saying anyone with three different colors in their hair is trashy......soooo not true. Maybe all the one's you have seen, say that but not all.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 7:53:49 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1063
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Here's an question for anyone around here: Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?
Oh, dang...forget it! That's too Levitical! Never mind!
does this mean we should only wear fashion that was first desiged by christians? if the non believer designed and marketed it first then we are being influenced by culture?
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 7:59:15 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: online
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You guys reminded me to TIVO the next episode of Miami Ink, thanks.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 9:21:45 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Here's an question for anyone around here: Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?
Oh, dang...forget it! That's too Levitical! Never mind!
does this mean we should only wear fashion that was first desiged by christians? if the non believer designed and marketed it first then we are being influenced by culture?
It really doesn't matter, now does it? All that matters is what's in the heart. After all, God sees only the heart. It doesn't matter what other people think. Our Christianity is private, personal and just between us and God. It doesn't matter what's on the outside, just what's inside. That's what we teach our sons and daughters, isn't it?
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 9:42:26 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 557
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jlp1
quote:
Personally, I think tattoos look trashy, especially on women.....but that is all it is....my opinion.
But alas, I can find no Scriptural basis for saying "tattoos are wrong". So if that's your thing, have at it......
Have you seen everyone and have you seen every tattoo? NOOOOO, so don't say all look trashy because you have not seen all..... that is such a prejudice statement. That's like saying anyone with three different colors in their hair is trashy......soooo not true. Maybe all the one's you have seen, say that but not all.
You're saying that you cant have the opinion that tattoos look trashy unless you have seen every last one in existence?. nonsense. Besides, the quote you're referencing dosent say all.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 9:52:57 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Here's an question for anyone around here: Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?
Oh, dang...forget it! That's too Levitical! Never mind!
does this mean we should only wear fashion that was first desiged by christians? if the non believer designed and marketed it first then we are being influenced by culture?
It really doesn't matter, now does it? All that matters is what's in the heart. After all, God sees only the heart. It doesn't matter what other people think. Our Christianity is private, personal and just between us and God. It doesn't matter what's on the outside, just what's inside. That's what we teach our sons and daughters, isn't it?
*sigh* I thought sarcasm was going to be brought to a minimum.
I find your tone and accusations offensive however I've seen how you 'debate' and am only going to say that because there is no thou shalt not tattoo thyself it truly is up to the convictions of the Holy Spirit to move amongst believers. Who knows? Maybe He'll change my mind about getting one. 
Sorry, Tink.  No, I'm not a good "debater" and I'm too sarcastic. And I get too defensive when Truth is twisted and manipulated. Then I hide behind sarcasm. I must learn to stick to scripture and not fly around on my own. I really am trying to do better! Really!
I've been called "Peter" more than once!  And I'll probably have to learn things the hard way, just like him.
Maybe the best thing for me to do is just step away from the subject. It seems there are a lot of people around here that just like to argue and don't really care about Truth. What I'm seeing is a lot of examples of 2 Timothy 4:3-4. I was reminded of that scripture today and it wasn't a coincidence. Itches like those will never be satisfied by the Truth of scripture!
So, sorry for the offense.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 10:16:48 PM
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jlp1
Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2008
From: Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Personally, I think tattoos look trashy, especially on women.....but that is all it is....my opinion.
But alas, I can find no Scriptural basis for saying "tattoos are wrong". So if that's your thing, have at it...... 
Personally, I agree with you. I think tattoos look trashy on everyone...if they're visible anyway. There's a reason you don't (normally) see them on people that are in executive or professional careers. But, if I did have one, it would be someplace that's not obvious!
And, no...there's no scripture that says "Thou shalt not have tattoos" (other than Leviticus...but we won't revisit that). But ultimately, it's between a person and God. And that's what everyone wants to hear!
quote:
You're saying that you cant have the opinion that tattoos look trashy unless you have seen every last one in existence?. nonsense. Besides, the quote you're referencing dosent say all.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you can make a statement saying that tattoos look trashy......at least the one's I've seen.......its just not ok to generalize as it being all bad and trashy because I think mine is beautiful and it's not trashy. I wouldn't get another one though, but I got it to cover a mark. And my mom seen it (Mrs. conservative christian) and she did not not like it, LOL.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/11/2008 10:17:45 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1063
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Here's an question for anyone around here: Are you influencing the culture or are you being influenced by the culture?
Oh, dang...forget it! That's too Levitical! Never mind!
does this mean we should only wear fashion that was first desiged by christians? if the non believer designed and marketed it first then we are being influenced by culture?
It really doesn't matter, now does it? All that matters is what's in the heart. After all, God sees only the heart. It doesn't matter what other people think. Our Christianity is private, personal and just between us and God. It doesn't matter what's on the outside, just what's inside. That's what we teach our sons and daughters, isn't it?
actually that is part of what we teach. that does not include the issue of covering up adequately, or respecting dress codes for specific circumstances of course.
1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
< Message edited by OLEEguacamole -- 6/11/2008 10:31:16 PM >
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/12/2008 7:52:56 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
actually that is part of what we teach. that does not include the issue of covering up adequately, or respecting dress codes for specific circumstances of course.
1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
Samuel was referring to Eliab's height and natural good looks...things he (Eliab) had no control over.
And while we teach our kids that the heart attitude is important, what a person (as a Christian) presents to the world is also important. Since the world cannot see the heart, they have only the outside to look at.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/12/2008 11:00:32 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1063
Status: offline
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height is still outward. God looks inside, man looks outside. show me scripture that says prove your character with your appearance.
what we present to the world is our character.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/12/2008 10:48:47 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 432
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
height is still outward. God looks inside, man looks outside. show me scripture that says prove your character with your appearance.
what we present to the world is our character.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 1 Timothy 2:9-10; Romans 12:1-2; et al
I'm sure you won't think any of these apply but God seems to have devoted a lot of page space to what we do with our bodies and how we adorn our bodies. Therefore, it must be important and the outside must matter.
If I cannot see what's inside your heart, it stands to reason that the only way I can see your character is to look at the outside.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/12/2008 11:04:00 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1240
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
If I cannot see what's inside your heart, it stands to reason that the only way I can see your character is to look at the outside.
Or you could do something really crazy, and get to know the person.
Now, as to the verses you brought up...
1 Corinthians 6 there is speaking about sleeping with prostitutes. If it were talking about our bodies in general, then we could never eat French fries, or candy, or soda (well, drink soda) in public, because those, heh, certainly aren't honoring our bodies.
Romans 12 is about a life of service towards one another. It's not really addressing our physical bodies, except to the extent that our bodies are how we serve - except for those of us with telekinesis. ; )
1 Timothy 2 is, I believe, addressing us acting in a way that does not set a bad example for un-believers.
Some would say that a Christian having a tattoo gives a bad witness before non-Christians, but I just don't see that. In my experience, Christians are the ones who get upset about them, not non-Christians.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/12/2008 11:42:35 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1063
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
height is still outward. God looks inside, man looks outside. show me scripture that says prove your character with your appearance.
what we present to the world is our character.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 1 Timothy 2:9-10; Romans 12:1-2; et al
I'm sure you won't think any of these apply but God seems to have devoted a lot of page space to what we do with our bodies and how we adorn our bodies. Therefore, it must be important and the outside must matter.
If I cannot see what's inside your heart, it stands to reason that the only way I can see your character is to look at the outside.
we wear our behavior on the outside. our behavior, our fruit, our deeds are what demonstrate our character. clothed in garments of righteousness. (right behavior that comes from a right heart)
1 cor 6:19-20
this talks about what our bodies contain, the Holy Spirit. we are not to introduce unclean spiritual matter into the container (temple) of the Holy Spirit through unclean sex.
i tim 2:9-10 actually de-emphasizes our outward appearance as a sign of who we are and calls women to show who they are with the good behavior that befits a godly woman. IOW it is not the fancy stuff that shows your worth, it is your behavior.
rom 12:1,2
we present our whole selves for sacrificial service. instead of using our bodies to sin. (see also romans ch. 6)
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 7:24:28 AM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 432
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
height is still outward. God looks inside, man looks outside. show me scripture that says prove your character with your appearance.
what we present to the world is our character.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 1 Timothy 2:9-10; Romans 12:1-2; et al
I'm sure you won't think any of these apply but God seems to have devoted a lot of page space to what we do with our bodies and how we adorn our bodies. Therefore, it must be important and the outside must matter.
If I cannot see what's inside your heart, it stands to reason that the only way I can see your character is to look at the outside.
we wear our behavior on the outside. our behavior, our fruit, our deeds are what demonstrate our character. clothed in garments of righteousness. (right behavior that comes from a right heart)
1 cor 6:19-20
this talks about what our bodies contain, the Holy Spirit. we are not to introduce unclean spiritual matter into the container (temple) of the Holy Spirit through unclean sex.
i tim 2:9-10 actually de-emphasizes our outward appearance as a sign of who we are and calls women to show who they are with the good behavior that befits a godly woman. IOW it is not the fancy stuff that shows your worth, it is your behavior.
rom 12:1,2
we present our whole selves for sacrificial service. instead of using our bodies to sin. (see also romans ch. 6)
Exactly. They all relate to the importance of the body. Therefore one cannot say what is on the outside doesn't matter. Whether we like it or not, there is a connection between the "inside" and the "outside."
What you're espousing borders on gnostism.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 9:32:31 AM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 432
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you can make a statement saying that tattoos look trashy......at least the one's I've seen.......its just not ok to generalize as it being all bad and trashy because I think mine is beautiful and it's not trashy.
Umm.....some people do have the opinion that ALL tattoos look trashy. They are entitled to that opinion.
That being said, it is true that the outside is a reflection of the inside in many cases. However, that does not mean that the intent we believe is there is truth. We all have different experiences that affect our world views. That means that we have different opinions about things. This discussion could easily be a thread on short vs. long hair, beard vs. no beard, earrings or no, dress clothes in church vs. ..........
Spot on, Wes. My concern is that people realize there is a strong and definitive connection between the outside (phyiscal, material) and the inside (spiritual, attitude, belief).
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 11:35:16 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1240
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Spot on, Wes. My concern is that people realize there is a strong and definitive connection between the outside (phyiscal, material) and the inside (spiritual, attitude, belief).
Heh, and my concern is that you won't judge people based solely on their appearance before getting to know them.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 11:49:33 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2181
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Spot on, Wes. My concern is that people realize there is a strong and definitive connection between the outside (phyiscal, material) and the inside (spiritual, attitude, belief).
I am sure there are correlations between the outward physical appearance and the inward spiritual condition, but no one has yet to prove that having tattoos is represented of a spiritual disease.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 12:15:36 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1063
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you can make a statement saying that tattoos look trashy......at least the one's I've seen.......its just not ok to generalize as it being all bad and trashy because I think mine is beautiful and it's not trashy.
Umm.....some people do have the opinion that ALL tattoos look trashy. They are entitled to that opinion.
That being said, it is true that the outside is a reflection of the inside in many cases. However, that does not mean that the intent we believe is there is truth. We all have different experiences that affect our world views. That means that we have different opinions about things. This discussion could easily be a thread on short vs. long hair, beard vs. no beard, earrings or no, dress clothes in church vs. ..........
Spot on, Wes. My concern is that people realize there is a strong and definitive connection between the outside (phyiscal, material) and the inside (spiritual, attitude, belief).
strong connection how? if my clothes are really ugly because i have bad taste what does that say about my heart?
if i have a great hair cut what does that say about my spiritual condition?
scripture does not support looking at appearance to discern the heart.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 1:27:26 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 432
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Spot on, Wes. My concern is that people realize there is a strong and definitive connection between the outside (phyiscal, material) and the inside (spiritual, attitude, belief).
Heh, and my concern is that you won't judge people based solely on their appearance before getting to know them.
Right or wrong, we all do that. If you see a guy walking around with a ladies handbag and wearing lipstick, do you make any kind of pre-judgement about him? If you see a female in public wearing a very short skirt and a very low cut blouse and very obviously no bra, what kind of conclusion do you come to?
If you see a guy wearing a police uniform with a holster and gun, what kind of judgement do you make about him? How do you know you're right?
Does the outward appearance have anything to do with the real person?
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 1:42:26 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1063
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
scripture does not support looking at appearance to discern the heart.
That depends upon what the appearance is really. The physical display that deserves reproach is the one that degrades God's message. A pastor cannot run around with a tattoo of a naked woman on one arm and be a Christ-like example very effectively. By the same token, one cannot say that a pastor is living in sin because he has a tattoo of a cross on his arm.
some people intentially display words and symbols etc of rebellion, etc but that is not style it's a statement.
that doesn't fit the criteria of, "it looks trashy" therefore i think it's a reflection of their heart or spirit.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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