non-member wanting to get involved (Full Version)

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gotochurch -> non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 9:53:39 AM)

My dh and I do not attend the same church. I've been visiting around for almost two years and he's been attending a small independent Baptist church since Nov. He's always been very active in church and somehow was either asked or volunteered to usher several times at the church and then was told he could not usher anymore until he became a member. I understand and agree completely. My dh did too.

The church has a small van that is handicap accessible. My dad broke his hip recently and has been in the hosp and nursing home. Pastor of this church took a real interest in him, visited him several times while he was in the hosp and told my dh if he ever needed to borrow the van all he had to do was ask. We asked to borrow the van to bring my dad home from the nursing home and then again to take him out to eat with my mom on Mother's Day. Apparently prior to this the van had not been used in awhile and it needed to be inspected and have some minor work done. My dh knows a lot about vehicle repair so he spent several days doing what needed to be done and then took it to be inspected. A couple of Sun ago the pastor said someone in the church saw dh driving van and wondered why he was allowed to when he is not a member of the church. This, to me, is very petty. The only place dh has driven the van was either repair related, which benefited the church, or for my dad, which benefited a fellow brother in Christ. Apparently no one cared that he was not a member when worked on the van. This has kind of upset me, and I am thinking if this is all church members have to worry about, I would never want to be a member there.

This past Sun morning my dh was handing out bulletins out prior to start of service and a deacon came up to him, grabbed the bulletins from his hand and said, you can't do that. He was followed by his wife who said, "you have to be a member if you want to do anything around here." Dh did not stay for the service and on the way out told pastor he would not be back for awhile. Pastor called dh later that afternoon and said that he wanted to be the one to bring this to dh's attention and had told this man not to say anything. He apologized and said they would get together later and talk more. Dh showed up at church Wed night for Bible study, and pastor again said they needed to talk. Dh wants desperately to get involved but for some reason does not feel ready to join. We were members of a SBC for 17 years and got "burned" so don't know if that has anything to do with it.

A couple weeks ago the church wanted people to distribute flyers advertising a family fun day on a Sat. morning. My dh and the pastor were the only two that showed up, and they together spent most of the day giving out flyers. Pastor did not tell dh he had to be a member to help with that. I feel like the pastor is ok with what my dh is doing but others in the church are not liking it, maybe because he is showing them up. Anyway---

Just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Thanks



laura... -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 10:01:51 AM)

Send your hubby to our church. We'll gladly let him serve God without formal membership.



Calea37 -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 10:02:17 AM)

Sadly, that is rather a typical attitude in many churches and probably one of the things that is such a TURN OFF for people..[:'(] It is not an exclusive club (or shouldn't be), but people get all possessive of "their" ministries and can't have any "outsiders" in. [:@]



4IMPersuaded -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 11:52:10 AM)

Bless dh's heart for his willingness to serve. I'm sorry, but this American Express attitude is just, well, dumb! It is the antithesis of the New Testament church.

As a part of a church plant for the last 18 months, we made the decision to do away with membership. Once an individual wants to seek further commitment in our Community, we offer a "partnership" option, but it is a totally different level than simply saying "I'm a member of this church."

As I see it, you two have at least two options. First, if your dh feels such a strong call to serve in this congregation, he can pray and search God's word for guidance about "joining" the church (it seems to me that he has already done so except the formal gesture). If not, he can look for other communities that would welcome his heart for service without all of the strings attached.

It also seems as though the paster needs to take a look at the church bylaws and see if this is just a prejudice perpetuated by the "old school" members of the church or if this is truly supported. Then, he needs to be consistent. It sounds as though he is plenty willing to accept your dh's help as long as no one is looking and then takes a different view if he is going to receive "flack" for dh's involvement. Again, I think the whole attitude is just dumb, but I understand how Christians can get their eye off of Jesus and obsess about things that don't matter sometimes.



crankius -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 12:13:16 PM)

quote:

but this American Express attitude is just, well, dumb!


[sm=icon_smile.gif]

I agree.



still4gvn -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 12:15:35 PM)

I think they are being silly. But there are some reasons to require membership in order to participate in some ministries, although they don't apply to your husband.

A member is under authority of the elders. They can check him out and discipline him if need be. For instance, we do a state criminal check on people who work with our kids. And yes, abusers love to go to a church, act religious and get access to kids.
If a visitor sees someone handing out bulletins, they assume he represents the church. If they later see him down the street up to no good, they will be offended.
Someone representing the church should have compatible doctrines. Just now, we have a great lady who has started to attend and wants to form a choir. She doesn't believe Jesus is God. I think this will need to be sorted out - in a nice way.
Again - I'm sure non of this applies to your dh, but that may be why they have the rule.



seagullplayer -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 1:59:43 PM)

Sounds like the ministry functions your husband has been doing would not normally come under the heading of members only. But who knows what their by-laws might read. Now if he was seeking a board position that might be different.

I’m kind of surprised that a Church with their level of concern over membership and commitment would have an open communion?
As to van driving, we would just have to make sure he was insurable.

Understand, I now Pastor a Community Church, non denominational, and we don’t have formal membership.

But my wife and I are still covenant members of our former denomination (I’m considered on loan outside the denomination). The only lay positions in that Church that required the commitment of membership was board positions and the ability to vote at the annual election. I taught an adult Sunday school class for two years before we became members.

Perhaps the congregation is just doing a poor job of tiring to pressure your husband into commenting further to the Church? They know he is married and that his wife doesn’t attend, maybe they even know you attend else where, this might be their attempt in “catching” you both? Not saying I condone this action, just pointing it out.

Not to change the subject but, I have to ask, why don’t you go with your husband to this Church?



pstrdebi -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 6:48:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laura...

Send your hubby to our church. We'll gladly let him serve God without formal membership.


I'll second that emotion!!! [:D]

For Heavens sake... don't folks take things a little too far sometimes. Handing out bullitens? Good grief!

All-be-it, pastors have to keep the peace... however, if it were me, I would be kindly telling my congregants that there are far more important axes to grind in this world, ie: homelessness, drug addictions, complacentcy in the church, apethetic people, folks riddled with bitterness and holier-than-thou attitudes, etc., etc.... than to try and demeen a man of God who is humbly seeking to serve the Lord!
AMEN!

(sorry... that just got my dander up a little! [:)] For Heavens sake! [8|])

btw... membership is mostly for voting in of deacons, elders, major decisions, etc.

Blessings upon your dh!
Pastor Debi
[&:]



evryknee -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 7:58:16 PM)

I agree with the posts above - To many, membership becomes a Who's In vs Who's out club. There are things that are very important to be under the authority of eldership (teaching, leading, etc.), but handing out bulletins????? Pleeeaassee. So I'll echo 4IMPersuaded:

quote:

As I see it, you two have at least two options. First, if your dh feels such a strong call to serve in this congregation, he can pray and search God's word for guidance about "joining" the church (it seems to me that he has already done so except the formal gesture). If not, he can look for other communities that would welcome his heart for service without all of the strings attached.



pruned -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 8:20:39 PM)

I think some of the reason for the possessiveness of the ministry areas is that the members of the church should be the ones doing the work.

However, it sounds like they are a wee bit dysfunctional (bulletins on Sundays, but not fliers on Saturdays). Perhaps it has something to do w/physical labor. Or maybe it's due to general dysfunction: power / control issues.

I would think this would be true the smaller the church.

Since the pastor is sympathetic to your dh, the pastor is probably not the decision maker in this church.



Romans16_20 -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 8:33:01 PM)

Sounds to me like the pastor needs a spinal infusion. He didn't defend your hubby for working on the van, didn't thank him publicly for passing out flyers (maybe a little shame would work), didn't defend him for passing out bulletins (or didn't do it enough).
It almost sounds like (from the little bit of info I have)the pastor is trying not to lose your hubby and make everyone else in the church happy at the same time by playing peacemaker at all cost.
In a culture were most men shy away from church to have one that is begging to serve and not allowing him is ... no better way to put it... stupid. (not calling the pastor stupid, just the actions/midset of the church)

Thats my insensitive take



phosadaud -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 10:17:09 PM)

I've never been a part of a church that didn't have a place for folks to serve - member or not. I wouldn't want to be. Yes, there are some ministries that may have additional requirements on them (for instance, to be in leadership, to work with children, to drive the church's vehicles, etc), but any church that doesn't allow folks to serve until they officially "join" has a weird understanding of the church Body IMHO.



pureevil -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/5/2008 11:31:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gotochurch

My dh and I do not attend the same church. I've been visiting around for almost two years and he's been attending a small independent Baptist church since Nov. He's always been very active in church and somehow was either asked or volunteered to usher several times at the church and then was told he could not usher anymore until he became a member. I understand and agree completely. My dh did too.

The church has a small van that is handicap accessible. My dad broke his hip recently and has been in the hosp and nursing home. Pastor of this church took a real interest in him, visited him several times while he was in the hosp and told my dh if he ever needed to borrow the van all he had to do was ask. We asked to borrow the van to bring my dad home from the nursing home and then again to take him out to eat with my mom on Mother's Day. Apparently prior to this the van had not been used in awhile and it needed to be inspected and have some minor work done. My dh knows a lot about vehicle repair so he spent several days doing what needed to be done and then took it to be inspected. A couple of Sun ago the pastor said someone in the church saw dh driving van and wondered why he was allowed to when he is not a member of the church. This, to me, is very petty. The only place dh has driven the van was either repair related, which benefited the church, or for my dad, which benefited a fellow brother in Christ. Apparently no one cared that he was not a member when worked on the van. This has kind of upset me, and I am thinking if this is all church members have to worry about, I would never want to be a member there.

This past Sun morning my dh was handing out bulletins out prior to start of service and a deacon came up to him, grabbed the bulletins from his hand and said, you can't do that. He was followed by his wife who said, "you have to be a member if you want to do anything around here." Dh did not stay for the service and on the way out told pastor he would not be back for awhile. Pastor called dh later that afternoon and said that he wanted to be the one to bring this to dh's attention and had told this man not to say anything. He apologized and said they would get together later and talk more. Dh showed up at church Wed night for Bible study, and pastor again said they needed to talk. Dh wants desperately to get involved but for some reason does not feel ready to join. We were members of a SBC for 17 years and got "burned" so don't know if that has anything to do with it.

A couple weeks ago the church wanted people to distribute flyers advertising a family fun day on a Sat. morning. My dh and the pastor were the only two that showed up, and they together spent most of the day giving out flyers. Pastor did not tell dh he had to be a member to help with that. I feel like the pastor is ok with what my dh is doing but others in the church are not liking it, maybe because he is showing them up. Anyway---

Just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Thanks


It sounds to me like he's trying to serve a church that is in bondage to a spirit of religion and doesn't quiet grasp the fact that if you are a believer in Christ you are already a member of the Church!

I'll pray that they are set free from that trap!



gotochurch -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/6/2008 9:38:54 PM)

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone asked why I did not go to church with dh. As stated earlier, we attended the same church for 17 years so I want you to understand that we are not church hoppers that leave a church every time someone looks at us cross-eyed. The situation we faced was a very serious one that involved our teen age dd. When the senior pastor told us in a closed door meeting with several other pastors and deacons that he was too busy to help our family get through something concerning dd, we knew it was time to leave. I gave up my SS class and left quietly. I felt I had a responsibility to help my dd find another church to attend. My dh, on the other hand, was involved in several ministries he did not want to give up so he stayed for over another year. In the meantime we began visiting two other churches, liking one more than the other. My dh began visiting new church and then wanted me to come with him, but I was enjoying this other church and my dd began dating a boy in that church. We were close to joining, but since my mom needs so much help with my dad there are lots of Sundays I do not get to church.

I have visited with my dh three different times over the past several months. I was not really impressed. The pastor seems to know a lot about the
Bible and seems very compassionate. He's been there 3 or 4 years. The church has been around since 1778. Confederate soldiers are buried in the
church cemetery. The church is very small and full of mostly older people. The order of service is in the bulletin and is the same week after week.
The hymns are listed on the front wall. They sing the doxology each week after taking the offering. Every thing is so set in stone I don't know how
the Holy Spirit could move. My dh knows how I feel and is patiently waiting and hoping I will change my mind. He told the pastor that this issue will
not encourage me to want to become a member when he does, and the pastor said he should not have told me about it.

Now with the weekend here dh says he won't go there Sun, and I don't know how to advise him. I really appreciate everyone's comments and prayers.

Thank you and God bless



4IMPersuaded -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 4:32:29 AM)

Wow, dear one. I would be very wary of a pastor that encourages a husband to keep anything from his wife. I know this seems complicated for so many reasons. I was not surprised to hear of the nature and history of this particular church. I'll bet we could all name a church we have been to at least once that fits it's description. At any rate, remember Whom we serve. Pray for God's guidance-- He is faithfull and will be clear about where He wants you if you will listen.



Romans16_20 -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 6:40:37 AM)

I agree with 4Im, I would be very cautious of a church that advised to keep things from a spouse. Also keeping things from prospective members doesn't seem wise either. I would rather find out about a church, warts, halos, right, wrong, bad hair days... all before I joined rather than get in and then discover I was a bad fit after I had started making attachments and taking on responsibilities, that may go unfinished if I left.



pruned -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 11:24:48 AM)

Ditto.

Ditto.

Does, "Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" (John 8:32) sound familiar?

Or how about James 3:16, "For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice."

Run.



rcjames -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 1:51:49 PM)

Dear OP,

What do you have against joining the CHurch.

Most Churches do require membership before the person is allowed to minister.

I do this because otherwise I cannot know if they are saved, baptised, have their maritial status in order, their background is something that lives up with Scriptue, etc. etc. etc.

I certainly cannot know these most important things about folks who will not join in the fellowship.

Thanks
RC



Roberta_ -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 3:18:59 PM)

I can understand not being allowed to be an elder, deacon or head up a ministry. But I don't understand the rest of it.



colliefan -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 5:00:34 PM)

Can maybe understand about driving the van, insurance requiremnts?

Don't understand limiting the mundane stuff to members.



Liveloved -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 6:44:46 PM)

quote:

Just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.


Yes, it's called sin and it is the kind of sin that goes on in the church and is tolerated. I'm sorry to say that while sin of this nature continues, the sin of others (such as sexual sin) is frequently talked about and deplored. It is what carnal people do. It takes a relationship with Jesus, walking in the light with Him to change people. And most don't want that. They prefer the comfortable churchianity that they are currently enjoying.

This grieves the heart of God as it should grieve us.



rcjames -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 6:54:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
Don't understand limiting the mundane stuff to members.


In all ministry, including the mundane stuff, the person is representing the Church (the local body of Christ). As such if the person does not want to be an intergral part of the local body of Christ (member) I percieve that they should be a part of what they are representing.

In becoming a member they would be vetted, proclaim to the Church that they will live their lives in a Scriptural manner, have been saved, baptized, etc.

Thanks
RC



BillBaileyBFAFan -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 8:19:57 PM)

Where in the Bible does it say anything about formal church membership? I dont know why so many people are hung up on it. I agree with an earlier post, if you are saved you are a member of THE BODY OF CHRIST, which is all that matters anyway. No one's name on a church roll has ever done anything for the cause of Christ. A church building is a place to be taught the Word of God, and to fellowship with other believers. I really think we have strayed far from what the apostle Paul taught us, and commanded us to do.



phosadaud -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 8:58:14 PM)

Sorry, I don't see what membership has to do with serving either...



crankius -> RE: non-member wanting to get involved (6/7/2008 11:21:14 PM)

quote:

I do this because otherwise I cannot know if they are saved, baptised, have their maritial status in order, their background is something that lives up with Scriptue, etc. etc. etc.


I have a what if question, if you don't mind answering.

What if you had a person who attended for a couple of years--you knew their family, you knew their reputation, they had already been baptized, you observed they were mature in the Lord and they were very devoted to the church in every way, but they just still hadn't signed the membership forms and didn't intend to.

I ask because I think this is a reality that membership churches deal with, and I know our church deals with it.



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