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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/11/2008 11:46:44 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
As a longtime Lutheran, I must admit, I've never witnessed anyone 'slain in the spirit' so I have a hard time picturing it. Old Ed Tidblom once got a charley-horse while singing the Psalms, but that's about as dangerous as our services got.
Oh, stop everything! This one's got it! This may be a short paragraph, but with that kind of writing, you need to get off the Internet and get started on a book!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/12/2008 2:34:35 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I used a lot of the evening looking at this kind of stuff on YouTube tonight, and it's frightening.
One thing I noticed dominated this type of " " " " "worship" " " " " was the driving music. There has to be a connection. I believe they used the music to work people into a frenzy, and once they were rocking, they called their delirium something other than their own worked-up whirling-dirvish-like euphoria. Hey, when I was a child, I used to spin in place, too, because I liked the feeling, but that was not a religious event: it was a child acting like a child.
If you or the preacher has to work it up, then it's not of G-d. If it's not of G-d, why not just go downtown to the club, where people don't pretend it is of G-d? Or even better, join an exercise group and work it on out! At least if you get hurt, their insurance may cover it.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/12/2008 7:58:05 AM
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earthless
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Covaan,
The driving music has a lot to do with it as do the large crowds of people. It is what drives (pun intended) the hypnotist-psychosomatic type manipulation that goes on in Vegas, etc..
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/12/2008 12:10:44 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Some of what I watched was not large crowds but tiny groups. In one such small group, they were standing about shaking themselves -- one woman just holding one arm out at shoulder height and shaking a limp hand, another who managed to shake herself all over, a group of three teenaged girls altogether who shook similarly and kept bending a little at the knee then straightening up, a lot of head shaking, and a "leader" who would personally recognize and call out to the aisle the ones who were acting the silliest.
Is G-d glorified by silliness, by acting insane? I think not. I have heard such persons make such statements as "I would rather humble myself and act silly for G-d than not praise Him." Nice way of trying to justify the ridiculous behavior for which they are blaming G-d.
I think a lot of such stuff is people trying to be special. They need to feel special and to have others think them special. Well, I have news for these: in G-d's eyes, you are already special, and acting silly doesn't make anyone more special.
Further, it is odd that people would film this stuff and put it on the Internet. Somehow, they must get some jollies out of that -- some payment. And since they claim it is of the H Spirit, this makes me think of a certain Simon in the Bible....
_____________________________
Oh, and another thing. When my husband left our old church and was looking for a new place to attend, I would go with him during his search. In doing so, I attended a small-groups-type Bible study with him, and a woman there was talking about being "slain in the spirit." She suggested that we ought to go to a particular place where they were doing this during their services. I was puzzled by someone wanting to go somewhere just to do this, so I asked her, "Why should we? Why do you do that?" Her response? "Because it feels so good!" Ah. That's telling. It is not about G-d, it is not about the H Spirit, it is not about Messiah, it is not about the Gospel: it is all about "It feels so good!" In other words, the I gets all the benefits, it's all about me, it's back to the '60s hype: "If it feels good, do it." Sure. And in the name of G-d.
Well, no, thanks. And my husband made his exit from that group, too.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 6/12/2008 12:27:17 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/12/2008 8:06:20 PM
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SonInMe1
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How do you tell when a person is genuinely praising God or having a movement of God in their lives and someone faking it?
Seems to me the ones faking it...its between them and God.
These things do not bother me at all. I'll leave the "judgement" to God if its true or not and maybe....maybe...this is what happened to this guy.
Its a possibility. Only him and God know for sure.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/13/2008 1:18:10 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Hey, I will admit it -- sometimes, I could just shout right out loud how much I love the L-rd, my thanks for what He does, my appreciation for Him. But there are appropriate ways of doing this, and the most important thing I can think of is not to embarrass Him with worked up emotion or displays in inappropriate places.
Believe me, I have been around this kind of thing, and I have seen my share of fakers. The church I used to be in used to really try valiantly to squash this kind of thing, but they still came around. Further, when my husband was looking for a church, we ran across more.
I can tell you three ways of how you can know the fakers, because there are several ways.
1. I have been around some who first check about to see if anyone is watching, and if they think someone is, they do their thing. I've seen it -- a real tell-tale sign.
2. There are some who, while they are doing their thing, look about to see if people are watching during their display. Another real tell-tale sign.
3. There are some who seem to just ooze an icky, ugly aura, no matter how godly they try to make themselves appear.
Furthermore, I have been around real, actual moves of G-d, and the kind of stuff mentioned above simply doesn't happen when it is real. Not at all. Nor does any of the silly walks and head bopping -- that I have seen.
No, I have not seen it all, but after 50 years of being around where people would try that stuff and experiences with other churches afterward, believe me, I have seen enough of it to know I want nothing to do with it. If it isn't real, it's trash. It is of no use when it is worked up.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 6/13/2008 1:25:23 AM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/13/2008 8:37:07 AM
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SonInMe1
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If this guy truly believed he was slain in the Spirit...shouldn't he be sueing God?
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/13/2008 8:53:10 PM
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SonInMe1
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ahh...I knew I heard it somewhere.
Brain fart
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/17/2008 11:24:07 PM
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lightshineon
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I have questions, in catcher training do you use two for very large people? How far do you stand behind the person? Why would anyone want to catch anyone, if they wanted to fall? After you catch someone then what? I am not making light of this either just want to know, dealing or seeing experiences I have seen. Is there training in not on not getting hurt yourself catching someone?
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 6/17/2008 11:30:29 PM >
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F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 12:46:26 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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In one of the cites, they showed two big ol' boys goin' down. Honestly, I thought both of them were going to be hurt -- bad! -- since one was (I suppose) trying to catch the other, and they were both going down to a raised paltform, about 2 feet off the floor they were stanind on. The faller went on down and sprawled across the platform, and the catcher didn't do a good job of catching, but after some flailing about, finally fell on the platform, too, and looked about. I am not sure if either was hurt, but it that ol' boy had fallen on me, I would be a grease-spot on that carpet, and it would take a lot of Stainmaster to clean it up!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 10:12:04 AM
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lightshineon
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LOL, I would have been in the land of far, far, away.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
In one of the cites, they showed two big ol' boys goin' down. Honestly, I thought both of them were going to be hurt -- bad! -- since one was (I suppose) trying to catch the other, and they were both going down to a raised paltform, about 2 feet off the floor they were stanind on. The faller went on down and sprawled across the platform, and the catcher didn't do a good job of catching, but after some flailing about, finally fell on the platform, too, and looked about. I am not sure if either was hurt, but it that ol' boy had fallen on me, I would be a grease-spot on that carpet, and it would take a lot of Stainmaster to clean it up!
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 4:29:55 PM
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SinnerSaved
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Here you go...This is an extreme example...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpsK5XNxY4o&feature=related
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
Yeah i agree, but i would also say that if someone is running around on all fours barking like a dog, or flapping arms and clucking like a chicken. there is an extremely high probability that whatever it may be, it aint the Holy spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
_____________________________
"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 5:04:43 PM
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daisies4u
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"And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."
Please be careful here people. I know everyone who claims that they have been slain in the spirit may not be telling the truth. But that does not mean that being slain in the spirit is not REAL. Just because it has never happened to you or you don't understand it, doesn't mean that it can't happen. I worry about some of posts on here.
We need to be careful about how we speak about the Holy Spirit.
I have never been slain in the spirit but I have seen it happen to other people. They don't look around to see if anyone is watching or if someone is there to catch them. It is an experience that is between you and God. You are as close to God's presence as you can be. Saying that...I don't believe when you are that close in His presence that he will let you injure yourself. Although there are exceptions (I am thinking Jacob). Neither will he instruct you go against his word and tell you to sue your brother.
We are instructed not to judge but we can tell a tree by its fruit. If this man were truly slain in the spirit, I don't think he would be worried about an injury. He would be basking in being in the presence of God.
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 5:09:18 PM
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earthless
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daisies,
We are instructed to judge (test) all things in light of Scripture. And blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not the context that you're using it here (something that has been aptly covered in other threads).
When it comes to the topic of "Slain in the Spirit", there is only one side to this issue. Nowhere do you find the phenomenon of slain in the spirit in the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. The phenomenon itself is explained by natural processes, it's found in the world of the occult. If you look at Scripture - Scripture teaches you to be alert and sober minded because the adversary, Satan, prowls around like a lion seeking whom he might devour.
Christians are not supposed to be in an altered state of consciousness, you're supposed to be alert and sober minded. So 'slain in the spirit' is a phenomenon that you will find in the world of the occult. But not in a Christian worldview.
You can go to any stage hypnotist in Vegas, any day of the week, and have the exact same thing happen to you (slain in the spirit). In fact, this is explained in social-psychological manipulation. Benny Hinn for example, he's maybe a C+/B- grade hypnotist. He's not a great hypnotist, but he is good enough for the audience that he is working with.
What is applied is auto-suggestion, he's working people into an altered-state of consciousness, he uses peer pressure, he is using people's expectations and he is using the subtle power of suggestion which can make black appear white. He is using repetitive music and words. It can obscure reality and enshrine absurdity.
When you are hyper-suggestible, you can be made to believe anything that enters your mind. No matter how mundane or outlandish. It is really not something that ought to be applied within the context of a Christian worldview.
A lot of people who have never thought critically about this phenomenon in light of Scripture. I have taken the passages that people have used to support this, as a pretext for slain in the spirit. None of the passages make the point.
There is the passage where the Pharisee's are after Jesus and they then fall backwards - that is a classic case in point. What you find in Scripture is the enemies of Christ falling backwards. You don't find the friends of Christ falling backwards. The friends of Christ fall forward in adoration, they don't fall backwards as the phenomenon as slain in the spirit would have you believe you do.
And the reason you fall backwards, is because that is an easure function to manipulate, particularly if you have catchers. As opposed to falling forward. There is an absolute absence of catchers in Scripture as well. Why would you need catchers at all?! If this was a sovereign work of God.
Looking at the listing of gifts in Corinthians, being slain in the spirit is not even listed. You don't find it anywhere in Scripture.
The only place I might point you to is Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5), they were slain in the Spirit, but I don't think people will be lining up for that anytime soon.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 5:20:22 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daisies4u
Please be careful here people. I know everyone who claims that they have been slain in the spirit may not be telling the truth. But that does not mean that being slain in the spirit is not REAL...
Scripture always trumps theories.
I have reviewed the gifts of the Spirit and neither slaying nor catching in the Spirit is listed anywhere in any version. Yet, you always find someone playing the part of the slayer and people doing the catching. If the Holy Spirit is doing this, no person is needed to initiate it (unless there were a valid gift) and there would be no need to catch anyone because God the Holy Spirit is more than powerful enough to protect anyone He knocked uncounscious - and scripture teaches that He does not make us lose control.
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 5:29:53 PM
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daisies4u
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Ok. I am not eloquent enough to argue this point on my own so I took some help from my denominations website. Here is their stance.....
Misunderstanding and controversy have swirled around the happenings in every revival since New Testament times. When the divine manifestation of tongues was heard on the Day of Pentecost, skeptics declared the Spirit-filled believers drunk (Acts 2:13). In similar fashion, in the early days of 20th century Pentecost, many skeptics in mainline churches also misunderstood the Spirit’s outpouring and declared the Spirit-filled believers to be demon possessed.
Such criticism and controversy, however, are not limited to attacks from non-Pentecostals. Some who have been reared in Pentecostal churches also disagree over which manifestations of the Spirit are biblical and therefore appropriate. Critics of extra-biblical manifestations declare them to be inappropriate because the exact same manifestations cannot be found in the Bible. Proponents of such manifestations counter, also citing scripture to justify their experiences, but remote passages used for support are often extremely distant or unrelated to the modern-day manifestation. Yet in spite of the lack of strong scriptural support, the Assemblies of God recognizes those instances in Scripture where individuals were in an abnormal physical and spiritual state (e.g., Dan. 8:17,18, Acts 9:3,4. Rev. 1:17). However, the Church also realizes the danger in defending every unnatural manifestation in a revival as a mark of divine presence on the basis of an isolated, incompletely described incident in Scripture.
As believers we should look carefully to the Bible for any evidence of a manifestation that is proclaimed as a mark of spirituality and a pattern for all people. The doctrine that tongues are the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is based on the recurring record of Scripture. Therefore, we say with confidence that all believers can have the experience and that it should continually be a normative part of every believer’s spiritual experience.
However, to say that every little happening during a revival move must be found in Scripture is not in keeping with our understanding of a sovereign God who can do as He knows best and wills to do. An example of this would be divine healing. We as Pentecostals believe and proclaim this truth. But we do not conclude that God can heal only diseases mentioned in Scripture. Because there are many different instances of healing in Scripture, we know God is able to heal any infirmity or disease.
Likewise, there are many instances in Scripture when God moved supernaturally on human beings. The apostle Paul reported one of his experiences (2 Corinthians 12:1-5), but he never proclaimed such as a normative experience that every believer should seek, nor did he claim to be more spiritual because he had the experience. John also had an unusual experience on the Isle of Patmos (Rev. 1:10). In each case God manifested Himself to a specific person, in a specific time, in a specific way, for a specific purpose. These occasions were never recorded as recurring regularly. This does not mean that the manifestations were not real, only that they were special acts rather than normal occurrences. In view of this we recognize that God is sovereign and creatively dispenses His blessings to His people, in His timing.
People often look for easy answers to hard questions. Few like to do the spiritual judging that l Corinthians requires for prophecy (1 Cor. 14:29). It is easier to say that anything that needs judging should not be allowed. However, manifestations in a Pentecostal service should be spiritually judged, not for the purpose of declaring the entire revival out of order, but to preserve the good that God wants to accomplish in the revival move.
Furthermore, judging from a distance, on the basis of second- and third-hand reports, is not what Paul was requiring. Judging whether a human response is appropriate or not should be done in the church setting where God is obviously at work, where some fleshly manifestations might mingle with the true manifestations of God’s presence. We must always seek and cherish God’s presence more than any particular evidence or manifestation of that presence. God can come in the wind, the earthquake, the fire, or in the still small voice (1 Kings 19:11,12).
Isaiah’s unusual experience of God’s presence (Isaiah 6) demonstrates a beautiful sequence. First, there was a vision, a revelation of God’s holiness and majesty. Isaiah’s response was to give glory to God. But the experience with God’s presence didn’t stop there. A crushing sense of unworthiness, of sinfulness, followed immediately. “Woe is me!” He cried, “for I am a man of unclean lips . . . and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty” (Isaiah 6:5). Yet self-condemnation was not the end. God immediately gave Isaiah an assignment, “Go and tell.” Experiencing the divine presence of God is more than a warm feeling; it brings a call to greater service.
This is not something that is meant to cause dis-order in a church service, but something that is personal, between you and God.
< Message edited by daisies4u -- 6/18/2008 5:35:57 PM >
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/18/2008 5:48:27 PM
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earthless
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Daisies,
You may be shocked to know many of us are Pentecostal/Charismatic. I was a pastor in a Pentecostal church for ten years and my mother in law is a Word of Faith "superstar".
Our foundation is Scripture, correct? The fact of the matter is that "slain in the spirit" has more roots in the world of the occult (Hinduism/Kundalini experiences and manifestations) than in Scripture.
I don't see how it is not something that is meant to not cause disorder when it is like:
THIS
or
THIS
or
THIS
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/19/2008 9:48:46 AM
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daisies4u
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I understand what you are saying, but being slain in the spirit is NOT always like that. Those links were odd. In my opinion, being slain the in spirit is a comminication time between you and God. And yes, we are to base everything on the scripture but we also have to listen to the Holy Spirit. The bible does not give us specific guidelines for raising our children except to say "train a child in the way he should go". It doesn't say--make sure your children go to bed at a decent hour or tell them about drugs. We get the rest from prayer and from direction of the Holy Spirit.
That wasn't really my point though. My point was that it seems like some people on this thread were "making fun of" the Holy Spirit and that frightened me a bit.
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/19/2008 1:00:24 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I seriously doubt anyone was making fun of the H Spirit. Most of us have, I am sure, respect for Him and His work. However, the H Spirit is not about Himself; He, as has been said already, points to the Messiah. He does not make a spectacle of Himself. He, in my opinion, does not cause people to do things that might be obscene, that requires someone else to cover them. He does not sanction any entity that makes Him the focus.
I cannot believe that the H Spirit would sanction anyone who makes Him the focus, or who makes a baptism in Him with demonstrations the focal point of their testimony, their church attendance, etc. He takes the back seat. He is not a demonstrator. He is the Teacher, the Guide.
He consistantly points to the One in whose Name we are saved, the Crucified and Risen One. He does not try to make a name for Himself.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/22/2008 7:42:31 AM
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SonInMe1
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I have been slain in the Spirit. I didn't fall down. I've been prayed over and have felt the Holy Spirit stir in me and never have I fallen down.
If I fall, God will have to do it. I won;t go as far to say others are faking...though I do know some do.
I am saying...if it is God's will for me to fall, I will.
One of my pastor's wives, in my old church, usta fall down and she was literally out cold.
I was standing behiond my mil and she fell down...straight down in a heap, no way to catch her. I apologised to her but she said, no problem.
I do know, in that church it was almost encouraged to fall down. The leadership there, the senior pastor also was a crook. So, I look at these things with a jaundiced eye....but....people do what they do.
When I was slain in the Spirit it just made me....kinda like in extreme worship. Its a poor description and I am not sure I can describe it but I went all the way home praising God.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/23/2008 8:35:43 AM
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Soxfan
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Back in 2003, I was a counselor at an AoG kid's camp. One of the evening services was dedicated to manipulating the kids to speak in tongues and get slain in the spirit.
I spoke with my pastor and explained to him that the last thing 8-10 year old kids are concerned about is falling all over the floor and babbling incoherently. These are kids and most of them will do it out of peer pressure. One kid was so disappionted that he didn't speak in tongues, he cried the rest of the night!
I also told him that as a counselor, my responsibility was to listen to them, talk with them, comfort them, and pray with them. Many of these kids were in broken homes, and needed someone to talk to and love them. He fully understood and supported me. So I took my group to a corner of the sanctuary, away from the chaos and had a wonderful time of prayer!
Not long after that, we left the AoG.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/23/2008 11:08:39 AM
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slushie
Posts: 2066
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline
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Yeah.... this is just nuts. I do believe that in some case the "slain in the Spirit" thing may be just a superficial "fad"... I once went to a church where they were like that - they did have the trained catchers praying over the person. There was one girl who just didn't pass out, and they had one person praying over her, and 5 catchers - it was just a little ridiculous. Not to say anything against people who go to churches who practice this, but sometimes it's just a little.... strange, ya know?
It would seem stupid to sue your own church...
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Testify to Love
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RE: Man injured after being slain in the spirit - 6/23/2008 11:45:38 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1504
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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Anyone that does ANY research will find that this phenomenon comes from occultic practices and NOT from the Word of God.
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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