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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:04:42 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5155
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
not to mention, get nice "rims" for their car, electronics (cable TV, big screen TVs, stereos, cell phones), designer "hip hop" clothing, and other "luxuries"....
...and lots of fast food.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:04:42 PM
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Random
Posts: 1090
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
Go to the small local grocery stores in major cities. You don't see any middle class folks walking in there to buy lottery tickets. You see the poor from the neighborhood spending their last few dollars on the very small hope that they will hit the big time. I've seen it and I've done it. Lotteries are nothing more than a tax on the poor and the uneducated.
Let's say you are right about the grocery store. First of all, the non-poor people I know who buy lottery tickets don't buy them at small local grocery stores. They buy them at the convenience store in our building. So, that is a biased sample.
But again, even if 100% of the lottery tickets are bought by poor people, that does not mean that most poor people buy lottery tickets. It just means most lottery tickets are bought by poor people. They are two different statements, and not even remotely equivalent.
Most paper money is green.
Most green paper is money.
The first is true, the second is not.
ALL paper money is green (in the US).
Most green paper is money.
The first is still true, the second is not.
So, you may be right that most lottery tickets are bought by poor people, but you have done nothing to show that most poor people buy lottery tickets.
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"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:06:09 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5155
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
So, you may be right that most lottery tickets are bought by poor people, but you have done nothing to show that most poor people buy lottery tickets.
I bet you though that most poor people waste more than $10 every four years. I know we did.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:09:41 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 208
Joined: 2/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
So, you may be right that most lottery tickets are bought by poor people, but you have done nothing to show that most poor people buy lottery tickets.
I bet you though that most poor people waste more than $10 every four years. I know we did.
It really doesn't matter what poor people spend their money on.
If anyone doesn't vote because they cannot afford to do so, than that is counter to democracy.
Voting should be free. I can't believe that there are people arguing against this principal.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:10:41 PM
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Random
Posts: 1090
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
So, you may be right that most lottery tickets are bought by poor people, but you have done nothing to show that most poor people buy lottery tickets.
I bet you though that most poor people waste more than $10 every four years. I know we did.
That's fair. I would bet you that the government wastes enough money every month to pay for free IDs for the poor!
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"That which has always been accepted by everyone, everywhere, is almost certain to be false." -- Valery
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:11:24 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 763
Joined: 2/12/2008
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Well it's pretty obvious that the voter ID won't be passed before this election, so if it ever does get passed that means it won't take effect at least for another 4 years.
So if the only argument is time and money then I believe that even the poorest of people can save $10 - $40 over the next 4 years and find at least one day when they aren't working to go down, or have someone take them down, to get an ID.
I don't see the problem here, if the real objection is just time and money that is.
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Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:13:36 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1580
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
Voting should be free. I can't believe that there are people arguing against this principal.
The right to vote is not and never has been free. It was bought with the blood of the men and women who fought for that right. A $10 fee for an ID is nothing compared to that.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:16:50 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1580
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From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
Well it's pretty obvious that the voter ID won't be passed before this election, so if it ever does get passed that means it won't take effect at least for another 4 years.
Actually, it is already a law in many states. It is here in Kentucky and it is in Indiana. Ohio is considering it but I don't believe they have passed one yet, though when I lived in Ohio I did have to show an ID every time I voted.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:17:42 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5155
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
So, you may be right that most lottery tickets are bought by poor people, but you have done nothing to show that most poor people buy lottery tickets.
I bet you though that most poor people waste more than $10 every four years. I know we did.
That's fair. I would bet you that the government wastes enough money every month to pay for free IDs for the poor!
True.
I think photo ID's should be required to vote, and although it is not undue hardship to obtain one, I think it's reasonable to provide those who for whatever reason can't afford one with a free one.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 4:19:23 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1580
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I think photo ID's should be required to vote, and although it is not undue hardship to obtain one, I think it's reasonable to provide those who for whatever reason can't afford one with a free one.
I have no problem with that.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:06:09 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2610
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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The majority of lotto tickets sold are in the less affluent sections of town If would be willing to be that a larger percentage of the poor purchase tickets as opposed to the middle class and the rich.
The proposal to require identification in no way disenfranchises individuals. It just makes it harder for dems to commit voter fraud; and since this is where they seem to excel, it is why they are squealing like a stuck pig.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:15:05 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6602
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Oh, good night, you're a trip, Phunks. Don't you know what has happened in the last 100 years? The people who died for trying to assure the "right" to vote? The people who were kept from the polls because others did not WANT them to vote? In the USA? Amazing.
Oh, yeah -- and Cow
They marched and fought and were jailed and killed to fight against Jim Crow laws that denied them their RIGHT to vote. They had the right all along but people in power put up obstacles that prevented them from exercising their RIGHT to vote. Before that, there were laws the prevented any one from voting that didn't own land. We've had no shortage of elitists, under all kinds of guises, who try to insure that only the "right" kind of people vote. Including people that haven't seen 3 years' wages in a row that amounted to $25,000 with a family of four.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:18:20 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1580
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
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To me, voting by mail increases the risk of voter fraud and reduces your privacy. Any election employee can find out exactly who you vote for. And, how does the state know that the person who requested the ballot is the one who actually voted? I have a 19 year old autistic son. If I lived in Oregon, I could register him to vote and then I could fill out and sign his ballot and return it. That's voter fraud.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:19:53 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6602
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
Voting should be free. I can't believe that there are people arguing against this principal.
Don't you think it's interesting that the ones who make the biggest racket against taxes are willing to tax everyone another ten bucks before they can vote?
A tax is a tax by any other name.
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:21:54 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1300
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
The proposal to require identification in no way disenfranchises individuals. It just makes it harder for dems to commit voter fraud; and since this is where they seem to excel, it is why they are squealing like a stuck pig.
and, by having measures in place, which greatly REDUCES the opportunity for voter fraud, THUS, it would give Dems LESS of an opportunity to claim "Voter Fraud" when an election doesn't go "their way"....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:28:48 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6602
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
The proposal to require identification in no way disenfranchises individuals. It just makes it harder for dems to commit voter fraud; and since this is where they seem to excel, it is why they are squealing like a stuck pig.
and, by having measures in place, which greatly REDUCES the opportunity for voter fraud, THUS, it would give Dems LESS of an opportunity to claim "Voter Fraud" when an election doesn't go "their way"....
I thought it was the Dems, not Republicans, credited with voting multiple times in places like Chicago. No?
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:29:29 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1300
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
To me, voting by mail increases the risk of voter fraud and reduces your privacy. Any election employee can find out exactly who you vote for. And, how does the state know that the person who requested the ballot is the one who actually voted? I have a 19 year old autistic son. If I lived in Oregon, I could register him to vote and then I could fill out and sign his ballot and return it. That's voter fraud.
I'm assuming you're against the military using absentee ballots like I used when I was in service when I was halfway around the globe.
didn't the dems in the last few elections want to disregard/not fully count active-military 'absentee' ballots from overseas? and, what was the reasoning for that, do ya think?
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:33:13 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1580
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
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Jimbo, I am not against absentee ballots for the military though there is the potential for voter fraud just as in Oregon. I was in the military for 20 years and I know of cases of voter fraud that occurred with the absentee ballots. Most of the time, the spouse would fill out the ballot of the service member, sign their name to it, and mail it back in.
And yes, I reported it every time I heard about it, even if they happened to support the same candidates I did.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: ID's to vote - 6/6/2008 5:42:40 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2610
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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Remember Flordia 2000: where every vote must be counted until the election comes up in favor of Gore. And the military ballots can't be counted.
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