ID's to vote (Full Version)

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Leslie_JnJs_mom -> ID's to vote (6/5/2008 10:07:13 PM)

I was watching on the news how some were saying that requiring an ID to vote was disenfranchising the poor and minorities. All I could think of is how we were really poor for years and even though in the last 2 years we have done much better in many cities and states we would still be considered poor yet I never have a problem voting.



colliefan -> RE: ID's to vote (6/5/2008 10:46:03 PM)

When one writes a check for a purchase proof of identification is often required/ When one is making a large purchase with a credit card proof of identification is often required. The dems don't want this requirement because it will cut down on their voter fraud. They would much rather continue their practice of "vote early and vote often."



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: ID's to vote (6/5/2008 11:46:02 PM)

I can't speak for other states but in Kentucky you can get a state photo ID for less than $10. It is good for 4 years. Even the poor should be able to get those if they really wanted to.

Personally I think you should show some form of ID to vote in order to cut down on voter fraud. I have had to show a picture ID every time I voted, with the exception of the one time I had to vote absentee. To me it is no big deal.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: ID's to vote (6/5/2008 11:46:41 PM)

Yeah I figured as much. Funny thing is that I do not hear them screaming about needing an id to open a bank account.



Random -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 6:17:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leslie_Jessicas_mom

Yeah I figured as much. Funny thing is that I do not hear them screaming about needing an id to open a bank account.


Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?



IonMoon -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 6:28:43 AM)

Yeah, I think the fact that some of us don't realize just how poor poor can be affects our judgement.

There are a lot of people who get by without the things most of us take for granted- credit card, checking accounts, driver's licenses, mailing addresses, etc.

I think the problem with requiring an id for voting, is that a lot of people don't have a driver's licenese. Some of them have state ID cards (usual people who are young enough to get carded if they want to drink). But some of them do not (and not just the poor).

Requiring a state driver's license or id means that they will have to go out and get one just to vote. And it isn't just the expense, but the hassle that would stop a lot of people.

I don't know how widespread voter fraud is and I have never heard that it is heavier on one side than the other. Sure we should try to prevent it, but not by making it difficult for honest people.

Tara P



csl7037 -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 7:10:53 AM)

I think this argument's a royal CROCK and I agree it has everything to do with turning a blind eye to voter fraud. Give me a break.

I'm personally of the opinion that the "right to vote" along with a lot of other things we consider "rights" should be seen as privileges. If you can't be "inconvenienced" enough to get your picture taken, or you're not bright enough to go figure out how and where to get an ID, you don't have any business voting. Sorry.



JimboFletch -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 8:59:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Random

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leslie_Jessicas_mom

Yeah I figured as much. Funny thing is that I do not hear them screaming about needing an id to open a bank account.


Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?

True and many don't have phones, cars, and some not even permanent homes. People that are, by comparison, rich, cannot fathom why someone couldn't come up with $10, much less other signs of prosperity, in order to vote. When people have never gone a day without a meal, compassion for the less fortunate is hard to come by.



inthysite -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 9:39:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp

Yeah, I think the fact that some of us don't realize just how poor poor can be affects our judgement.

There are a lot of people who get by without the things most of us take for granted- credit card, checking accounts, driver's licenses, mailing addresses, etc.

I think the problem with requiring an id for voting, is that a lot of people don't have a driver's licenese. Some of them have state ID cards (usual people who are young enough to get carded if they want to drink). But some of them do not (and not just the poor).

Requiring a state driver's license or id means that they will have to go out and get one just to vote. And it isn't just the expense, but the hassle that would stop a lot of people.

I don't know how widespread voter fraud is and I have never heard that it is heavier on one side than the other. Sure we should try to prevent it, but not by making it difficult for honest people.

Tara P

This is a very good point that people don't think about because as someone stated they take a lot of what they have for granted.

However, I don't buy into the argument of it being a "hassle" to go down and get a state ID. Sure it may cost them $10 and that's $10 that could go toward their rent or groceries. Sure it may take time out of their day, time that could be spent working. But if they can take the time to go stand in line for a few hours to vote, then they can sure make that same effort to go down and get an ID.

Also, as far as the expense is concerned, if voting is that important to them then there is something they can give up for a week to save for the ID. I've known quite a few very poor people, people who live in extended stay hotels and can't hardly make enough to pay the rent, people who depend on their tips to pay for tonight's dinner. But they have no problem getting enough money for their cigarettes, cokes, or other items that don't fall into the necessity category.

But if the expense is really an issue then I think the states should come up with some kind of option for a free ID for those who live in poverty.

Now the issue then becomes, what about absentee ballots. How can you show an ID when mailing in your vote?

I am all for showing an ID to help cut down on voter fraud, believe me it is more rampant than people know.



inthysite -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 9:42:42 AM)

Oh and one other point, if the sole reason for ID's is to reduce voter fraud then steps need to be taken to better train the volunteers at the voting stations.

I've heard stories of people voting in the primaries who were just handed a ballot, no checking of name or registration, just here's your ballot and there's the booth, thank you for voting. There are other stories as well that indicate we need better scrutiny at the polls.



JimboFletch -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 9:50:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: inthysite
....Sure it may cost them $10 and that's $10 that could go toward their rent or groceries. Sure it may take time out of their day, time that could be spent working....

How much of that are YOU willing to give up to just vote for candidates with not enough imagination to know how you live - rent, feeding your family, and losing a day's pay from a heartless boss?

It sure is easy to expect others to sacrifice necessities when your stomach is full in an easy chair with air conditioning going.

I'm a conservative and a long-time Republican voter but I still have a little compassion for people with even less than I have.



IonMoon -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 9:55:31 AM)

Wow! I think this is the first time I have agreed with you in the Election folder, JimboFletch!

I agree with the above suggestions of training poll workers/more control at the polls.

And as was stated above, the idea of absentee ballots does kind of nullify the idea that ids are needed at the polls.

Tara P



phreddy -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:13:08 AM)

Absentee ballots should only be given out one to a voter per election who shows up in person with a valid voter registration card card and picture id. If you receive an absentee ballot, you cannot vote in person on election day. Signatures on absentee ballots are then checked against signature on file. This would cut down on a lot of fraud. If someone wanted to cast a fraudulent vote, they would have to give up their own ballot or some how take someone elses.



stellaluna -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:20:05 AM)

Why would someone not have an ID? I've always had to show one to vote.



PhunkD -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:25:19 AM)

Requiring an ID is basically a poll tax. While a lot of people COULD come up with $10 (although in New York, where I live, I think it is more like $40) they aren't very likely to do so when struggling to pay for food, rent, or medicine.

After slavery, various Southern states tried to minimize the numbers of former slaves voting by requiring a tax to be paid at the polling place. It was ruled unconstitutional. Adjusted for inflation, the cost of an ID today is greater.

Right now, 11% of Americans and 18% of American Senior Citizens do not have photo IDs. http://aging.senate.gov/events/hr186ww.pdf

There are plenty of ways of making sure a person is who they say they are when they vote. My citizenship was checked when I registered, and my signature is checked every time I vote.



P31W -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:30:26 AM)

quote:

Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?


What does it cost to cash a check at one of those places?



djv1255 -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:34:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhunkD

Requiring an ID is basically a poll tax. While a lot of people COULD come up with $10 (although in New York, where I live, I think it is more like $40) they aren't very likely to do so when struggling to pay for food, rent, or medicine.

After slavery, various Southern states tried to minimize the numbers of former slaves voting by requiring a tax to be paid at the polling place. It was ruled unconstitutional. Adjusted for inflation, the cost of an ID today is greater.

Right now, 11% of Americans and 18% of American Senior Citizens do not have photo IDs. http://aging.senate.gov/events/hr186ww.pdf

There are plenty of ways of making sure a person is who they say they are when they vote. My citizenship was checked when I registered, and my signature is checked every time I vote.

Best way to insure against voter fraud is a state issued photo id.
And for the poor, the state could waive any registration fee.



rnershigh -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:35:27 AM)

The state I'm in it's required to show ID before you vote.
I don't see what the problem is.



PhunkD -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:38:57 AM)

[quote
And for the poor, the state could waive any registration fee.
[/quote]

If any state did this, that would be the best solution. So far, no voter ID act has included a provision to help people pay for IDs.



JimboFletch -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:46:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

Why would someone not have an ID? I've always had to show one to vote.

Only in the past 2-3 years have I been required to show one to vote. My signature was enough before then. It also didn't hurt that the volunteers were from my voting area and actually knew me - too bad that's not the case in more places.



P31W -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 10:58:52 AM)

quote:

Most of them don't have bank accounts. Why do you think there are so many check cashing stores?


Do you have to have a photo ID to cash a check in one of those places?



stellaluna -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 11:05:17 AM)

Before I had a bank account I used a check cashing service and I always had to show an ID. Without an ID, anyone could cash any check they found.



cow451 -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 11:22:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhunkD

Requiring an ID is basically a poll tax. While a lot of people COULD come up with $10 (although in New York, where I live, I think it is more like $40) they aren't very likely to do so when struggling to pay for food, rent, or medicine.

After slavery, various Southern states tried to minimize the numbers of former slaves voting by requiring a tax to be paid at the polling place. It was ruled unconstitutional. Adjusted for inflation, the cost of an ID today is greater.

Right now, 11% of Americans and 18% of American Senior Citizens do not have photo IDs. http://aging.senate.gov/events/hr186ww.pdf

There are plenty of ways of making sure a person is who they say they are when they vote. My citizenship was checked when I registered, and my signature is checked every time I vote.


There is poor and poor. The elderly and disabled poor can't just hop in a car and zip down to the ID store. NO state has any provision for waiving the cost of having an ID. Those of us with drivers licenses don't pay anything extra to use it as a voter ID. The callousness of Christians is sometimes amazing. Or maybe it's just not having lived on the edge of society.

The ID issue makes sense in theory, but assumes everybody is mobile and has no problems paying for medicine and filling their pantries. Those blustering about alleged voter fraud have no qualms about those that might vote "the other way" being left out. And, they offer zero evidence that voter fraud is anything more than an isolated problem (e.g., "I've heard stories about .... or this guy on TV said..."). Richard Daley and Jimmy Hoffa have been dead a long time. People making fake ID's have more lucrative agendas than adding a few votes for somebody, LOL.



stellaluna -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 11:30:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451
The elderly and disabled poor can't just hop in a car and zip down to the ID store.

How are they zipping down to vote? I'm really asking. It's my understanding that you can vote absentee from the comfort of your home without showing ID. My grandmother does it. But if you can get to the poll, you should be able to get to the DMV.



IonMoon -> RE: ID's to vote (6/6/2008 11:35:47 AM)

Anyone CAN cash a check they find once it has be signed.

I have known people who didn't have photo ids who cashed their paychecks either by signing them over to someone else who could then deposit it into their checking account or by cashing at their place of employent.

Also- some people do not have checks to cash...

I have never been asked to see my photo id when voting.

If someone needs an absentee valid, it is unlikely they would be able to apply for it in person.

Tara P



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