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OneOfHisJewels -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 2:20:11 AM)

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Suffice it to say for now..interesting, thought provoking topic, and there are probably as many different answers to this played out as there are people in the world.

I am so interested in what you think.....



Oooy, this topic kind of opens up a can of worms for me. This topic kind of came up in Relationships a while back, only from a different angle.

I'll try to see if I can find a link.

Yes, sadly, I have been very judged for my looks, sadly, though not because of being considered beautiful (although I have had people tell me I was pretty and/or beautiful but it was always by kind people, not by people who resented it or anything), rather for being, according to certain people at certain times, um at the total other end of the spectrum.

Since you asked, here goes:
2nd grade it was: Every day, for 3 recesses a day, one boy would say, "Sit down before Rebekah or else you'll get red hair," and the whole class would try to sit down before me.

Junior high it was being told I was ugly, being told I was a dog, and more. I can't really type more without getting too emotional.

High school was, "You're sister's so pretty, you sure don't look like her."

When I was in jr. college and working fast food, no one was usually mean, but this one manager used to call me ugly a lot (although she was severely overweight and not so attractive herself, one day when she said it to me again, I couldn't take it anymore, and I finally called her on it, and she never said it again). Most of the other managers were complimentary of my looks, but this one guy manager, one time when 3 of us were getting our drawers counted said, "Look at all the girls back here, doggin" which made no sense, because the other 2 girls were really pretty, but he was always mean anyway, and I comforted myself with the fact that he not cute himself.

In college people were usually positive about my looks, but one girl had to declare to me I was "hippy," Thanks, alot, girl, didn't she even know I was always trying to wear clothes that would hide that fact to some extent.

But no, I do not judge against people just because they are beautiful. I have many beautiful friends with incredibly sweet spirits.

I do get irritated with people who are snobby about being pretty, or have that "I know I'm pretty," attitude (I'm not talking like Ryanne's post, she said that nicely, I'm talking about people who know it and are smug about it), but I still get to know a person before I decide that. Although a snotty expression can stand out.

Of course, the one characteristic I most despise is snobbiness, anyway, but people of any level of attractiveness can be snobby. Sometimes it's because of brains, sometimes athletic ability, etc. The reason I despise snobbiness is that it portrays an attitude that denies that EVERY good gift is from above.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 2:29:38 AM)

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ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey

I have never been judged for my appearance, in the "real world" or in the church.


Actually, according to the quote below, you have been judged for your appearance. You were judged that you were good enough and pretty enough to do those photo shoots/modeling shoots. It's just that you were judged in a positive way, and not a negative way, whereas, people who wouldn't be accepted as models are judged in a negative way. You also got compliments, therefore people made a judgement that you were attractive. Not that's that's bad, who am I to talk, I called you stunning the first time I say your picture, but I deduced you were a nice person by your posts, not by your picture. Because you are attractive you didn't receive insults such as I did, so in a way there was a judgement being made, but a good one, because you were attractive people made the judgement not to insult you.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 2:31:05 AM)

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ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey

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Mrs.Wifey, do you get comments about how beuatiful you are by people men and women, all the time?


Um, depends. I have received more in the past(before gaining 25lbs and having a baby) but I have done some modeling and photo shoots so I'm definitely not plain[;)]



lexie -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 8:19:50 AM)

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What confuses me though, is the original posters question to solo soprano. Why would anyone question her faith based on the fact that she is beautiful? That just makes no sense to me at all. Never once have I thought when I look at her picture that she could be any less of a Christian because she is so pretty, and I would really like to hear anyone explain why they would think that.

and that's wonderful that you don't do that! but do most people do!


Hmm. I really don't think MOST people would question someone's faith based on their looks, I'm sure that SOME people do, but there are always SOME people doing everything.

My suggestion then, is if anyone is judging someone's faith based on their looks, not only do we need to keep away from their negativity, but we have to pray for them, especially if they are Christian, because it means that their heart is hardened to the love of Jesus Christ.

OneOfHisJewels - I remember when you first put your picture up and I thought "finally, I know what she looks like!" My next thought "aww she's so pretty" (not that I thought you weren't going to be pretty!).



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 10:07:44 AM)

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ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

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ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey

I have never been judged for my appearance, in the "real world" or in the church.


Actually, according to the quote below, you have been judged for your appearance. You were judged that you were good enough and pretty enough to do those photo shoots/modeling shoots. It's just that you were judged in a positive way, and not a negative way, whereas, people who wouldn't be accepted as models are judged in a negative way. You also got compliments, therefore people made a judgement that you were attractive. Not that's that's bad, who am I to talk, I called you stunning the first time I say your picture, but I deduced you were a nice person by your posts, not by your picture. Because you are attractive you didn't receive insults such as I did, so in a way there was a judgement being made, but a good one, because you were attractive people made the judgement not to insult you.


This is true, I never thought of it that way.

And I guess I have been judged but it hasn't ever bothered me because I've always been pretty secure. I was told I had "baby birthing hips" when I was *very* skinny and they were prominent. Also, my early years in highschool were not so good[8|]

But it never applied how the OP was saying... I have never been "not a good enough Christian".



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 10:17:13 AM)

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OneOfHisJewels - I remember when you first put your picture up and I thought "finally, I know what she looks like!" My next thought "aww she's so pretty" (not that I thought you weren't going to be pretty!).


Ah, thanks, you made my day!



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 10:28:51 AM)

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And I guess I have been judged but it hasn't ever bothered me because I've always been pretty secure. I was told I had "baby birthing hips" when I was *very* skinny and they were prominent. Also, my early years in highschool were not so good

But it never applied how the OP was saying... I have never been "not a good enough Christian".



OK, sorry, I shouldn't have judged it was all peaches and cream for you (I mean I knew some guys did some awful things to you, but I was kind of mentally thinking of girls' behavior alone, or at least behavior of people completely separate from those incidents). It's just that when you said you hadn't been judged, I thought you were implying that you had never once been insulted in any way, shape or form, I didn't realize you meant only in reference to what people thought of your christian walk.



BrowneyedAL -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 11:19:53 AM)

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ORIGINAL: jlp1

I really need for you'll to be honest do you think beautiful women are discriminated against?


I do believe that happens sometimes, in a lot of different settings. I think that often a woman who fits (or is very close to fitting) what society portrays as the beauty ideal are often treated differently because of their looks...but that can work both ways...to their detriment and to their benefit. Social situations aside because they are too numerous to try to address, let me just use some examples of how I've seen this come into play in professional situations.

Often times the 'stereotype' of the air-headed bimbo is applied to a woman who is petite, pretty and busty...even if she is highly intellegent and capable. Once that 'label' is applied to her in the minds of those around her, she can do brilliant work but yet still be passed over for promotions or have her work be discounted because she isn't deemed able.

Another potential pitfall in such an instance is that she might receive unwelcome attention from a male superior putting her in a difficult position. On this one I can speak personally, my direct supervisor (at a previous job) behaved inappropriately toward me on a regular basis...he would find excuses for physical contact...putting his hand on my shoulder as he looked at work, that sort of thing...he openly praised my work to others who worked under him...making them jealous and we all know how jealousy affects people's behavior. He didn't exaggerate my accomplishments, I honestly did a really good job, but because of the way he behaved others failed to take my work seriously. Those above him were aware of the problem (including the things that were obvious sexual harrassment) and chose to turn a blind eye leaving me feeling as though filing a complaint would serve no purpose other than to further alienate myself from the rest of the office and possibly bring vengance from the offender...and I'd seen his retaliation for other things first hand...I didn't want to be the target of that!

However, I've also see the stereotype work for the woman who fit the societal standard for beauty. I work in an industry where a pleasant and professional appearance can be an asset. The dress code for my company is certainly more easily followed by someone who is petite for instance. There are uniform shirts that everyone wears with business suits. Until recently the largest the shirts were available in were XL and only recently became available in 2X...which means that someone who wears a larger size would stand out because they would be unable to dress in the same uniform as everyone else. I hate to say that I've seen appearance play a big factor in hiring (not so much with my current employer as with the one just prior to my current one). When there were two equally qualified applicants, I never saw the job go to the less attractive of the two in my year and a half working there.

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Men would not be able to answer but do you think looks play a role in how other women christian and non-christian women treat each other?


unfortunately, yes. I've actually HEARD women say that they prefer to have friends that are less attractive than they are so that they look better in comparison. I truly feel sorry for such women...for they probably miss out on some wonderful friendships because of their ignorance. For instance, if I had adopted that philosophy, I wouldn't have become friends with my closest and dearest girlfriend because she is honestly the most beautiful woman (physically speaking) that I have ever seen and is certainly more attractive than I am.

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I not saying because I think that I am beautiful but I heard women say this about themselves.


Looking at your avatar picture, let me say if you aren't saying it that I do think you are beautiful. (As a matter of fact you remind me a lot of the friend I was just mentioning in some way that I can't quite put my finger on)

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That if you are beautiful other women would treat you different or stereotype them. Do you know any women that it has happened to or has it happened to you?


It has happened to my friend, I have seen it...and as I mentioned earlier I've experienced some of that at work.

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do you think beautiful women are gold-diggers, stuck-up, self-centered, shallow, mean, out to take your man, ect.....?


No I don't, unless they act the part. There are a lot of naturally beautiful women in the world...who don't spend a lot of time trying to be that way...they just are...and that isn't shallow, self-centered or stuck-up in my opinion...even the women who have to make an effort to be beautiful and spend a lot of time in self-care aren't necessarily any of those things...God tells us we are to take care of the body he has given us. It's when the attitude that the results of that self care make one better than others that it becomes a bad thing. As with most things in life, motives make some of the most difference. If a woman is trying to make herself beautiful so that men (not just the man God has in mind for us but all men) will look at her, in order to make her feel more powerful or better about herself then that is when the beauty becomes a true curse.



Consecrated2God -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 1:05:32 PM)

I really haven't had much of an experience with this myself, but I can remember a couple of times when I've talked to a couple of women that believed people hate them because they are beautiful. If someone didn't like them, they'd say, "Oh, they're just jealous". In the cases that I've personally seen where women thought that they were being discrimated againt because of their beauty, it has been my opinion that it was their attitude, not their looks, that were causing people to dislike them. Physical beauty in and of itself I don't think is usually enough to cause people to not like someone else, unless that someone else is extremely insecure or something. I think if someone is having a hard time making friends, they need to take a deeper look at themselves and see if there are some personality issues that are making it difficult for people to like them.



jlp1 -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 8:34:18 PM)

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Often times the 'stereotype' of the air-headed bimbo is applied to a woman who is petite, pretty and busty...even if she is highly intelligent and capable.

So true, my mom always told me to watch my words and so I can be a woman of little words and speak when I am spoken to, so a lot of time people would make judgements off of my silence. Quick to listen slow to speak and when I did eventually open my mouth people listen.

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unfortunately, yes. I've actually HEARD women say that they prefer to have friends that are less attractive than they are so that they look better in comparison. I truly feel sorry for such women...for they probably miss out on some wonderful friendships because of their ignorance.

That is so true, when I do make friends I try to make them for life and I try to be a good friend (I only have 3) lol.
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I really haven't had much of an experience with this myself, but I can remember a couple of times when I've talked to a couple of women that believed people hate them because they are beautiful. If someone didn't like them, they'd say, "Oh, they're just jealous". In the cases that I've personally seen where women thought that they were being discriminated against because of their beauty, it has been my opinion that it was their attitude, not their looks, that were causing people to dislike them. Physical beauty in and of itself I don't think is usually enough to cause people to not like someone else, unless that someone else is extremely insecure or something. I think if someone is having a hard time making friends, they need to take a deeper look at themselves and see if there are some personality issues that are making it difficult for people to like them.

I think you have a beautiful smile and gorgeous hair and a pretty face.

I will be perfectly honest when I look at people I see something beautiful all the time; a smile, a dimple, eyes, lips, nose hair it's always something I find attractive about people aside from the inside.

I guess I thought christian women would be different be I guess we are all human and we make mistakes sometimes unknowingly, well I found another singles group to join so I try there, they seem nice.



h_seaton -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 11:12:44 PM)

Confession: I have been guilty of treating beautiful women differently.

I don't do it purposely; I feel so insecure and intimidated and I have to literally calm myself down when engaging with someone who is beautiful. I think in my head that they must think very little of me because I could never look as good. This makes me shy and I do not act like my normal, outgoing, friendly self. I make a conscious effort to remind myself every time that it is wrong and say a little prayer to keep myself from acting cold toward them.



BrowneyedAL -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/8/2008 11:48:01 PM)

Heather, I think that women in general are their own worst critics most of the time...and I'll bet you'd be surprised to know how many of those women you deem to be so much more attractive than you are are thinking the exact same thing about you. So try to keep in mind that we usually judge others in a much more favorable light than we do ourselves...and try not to compare yourself to others...if you simply can't avoid making those comparisons in your mind...then at least don't sell yourself short.

Sure there are some conceited women (and men) out there who really do think they are more beautiful than anyone else...but those people generally have such an ugly personality that it outweighs their outer beauty.



doinkdom -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/9/2008 11:07:14 AM)

wow, y'all were busy in here this weekend.

I know I rub the OP the wrong way[&o], but honestly, I have been in her position and I have a ton of girlfriends who talk about it all the time. And it wears me out, it makes me sad and I just want to hug them till they no longer feel this way.

I just find that the entire focus of everything they talk about and live surrounds their looks and how it affects other people - men and women. There is just so much more to life and I for one, stopped looking at the outside and am far more interested in the inside of someone.

If you want to be friends with women, then start by being friends with women and stop migrating to the men in the room. I know we tend to do that because we feel validated and affirmed when men pay attention to us and no, it's not always to do with our looks. Sometimes, it's about our body language and eye contact.

When I became less interested in "my" looks...so did others and especially other women - I now have lots of female friends and even a few that I would call "best" friends. We laugh, we cry, we live out the gospel with one another.

and by less interested doesn't mean I no longer care about my appearance, it's just not the focus of my life. I still do my hair, make-up, clothes, etc. but they are no longer who I am.



csl7037 -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/9/2008 12:38:36 PM)

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ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Since you asked, here goes:
2nd grade it was: Every day, for 3 recesses a day, one boy would say, "Sit down before Rebekah or else you'll get red hair," and the whole class would try to sit down before me.


Obviously this is something that still hits a nerve with us as adults. It's not something that's been a huge issue in my life - whether I was just fortunate to not be subject to too much of this kind of judgement one way or another or I was oblivious to it most of my life . . . I think, more likely, I'm just pretty average/middle-of-the-road to the extent that I could never be pegged ugly or beautiful. But these are becoming real issues for me now that I have an 8 year old daughter. She just finished 3rd grade in a private Baptist school. I love the school, love the people, it's a wonderful place. But we have a real situation with the girls, especially (according to the teachers) with this particular class. They can be downright vicious. I know a couple of girls who wont be coming back next year for this very reason. My dd has been on both sides of it (maybe she's mid-stream like me) - mostly because one of her best friends is one of the ring-leaders. She has an on-again, off-again relationship with this little girl. They'll be buddy buddy for a while and then she'll turn on dd and she'll come home in tears for a few days. Dd keeps going back so I keep telling her I can't feel too sorry for her if she keeps putting herself back in that position. But my biggest fear is that, during the on-again times with this girl, dd's acting that way toward other people. We've had lots of long talks about this during the last school year; I just hope I'm getting through to her.

Dd's little friend is far from the worst of this in their class. I've heard horror stories about one girl in particular who, thankfully, dd has never been in a class with (we'll see what happens this Fall). We got to the point last year that I wont allow dd to go to parties without me and sleepovers are out of the question (except here). She has one little friend from school (and a couple from church) who I'll let her go off with who we've never had fights or hurt feelings with. I worry because this little girl is starting to fill out a big and put on some weight and I just hope she doesn't become a target!

Sorry to go on but one important aspect of this is the MOTHERS! When you look at some of dd's friends/classmates' mothers, it's obvious where some of this stuff comes from. You could almost line up the moms and pick the teasers from the teas-ees just by looks. I've debated whether I should call a mommy-meeting and politely (or not so) say "We have a problem (and it's YOU)".

I would love any suggestions any of you ladies might have for dealing with this. For now I'm just enjoying the summer off and being able to pick and choose playdates. I try really hard to encourage time with certain girls and limit it with others. I have a friend bringing her dd to this school in the fall - she's a beautiful girl and her mom is too. But her mom's really worried about this kind of stuff and asked me about it. I've been honest with her and I'm going to help her dd get to know some of the less superficial girls over the summer. I wish there was a way to make this situation better before the Fall. But I guess all I can do is keep trying to steer my dd away from this attitude while I still can.



jlp1 -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/9/2008 6:57:57 PM)

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Confession: I have been guilty of treating beautiful women differently.

I don't do it purposely; I feel so insecure and intimidated and I have to literally calm myself down when engaging with someone who is beautiful. I think in my head that they must think very little of me because I could never look as good. This makes me shy and I do not act like my normal, outgoing, friendly self. I make a conscious effort to remind myself every time that it is wrong and say a little prayer to keep myself from acting cold toward them.

You don't do it purposely and you pray about it so at least you know to stop it and move on from it.

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I know I rub the OP the wrong way

No, I can see how it may look on your end, you may think its about looks but there is a bigger picture. If I was considered not attractive and it happened then the question would be; Do yo think not so attractive women are discriminated against? It's how we are treated based on looks


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If you want to be friends with women, then start by being friends with women and stop migrating to the men in the room.


I actually try to avoid the men and it may look as though a new woman coming into a group and men talking to her, it looks bad on her part. So I tend to not talk to them but when I am avoided by the women and the men will talk what do you do! I will not be controlled by someone else issues.

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I know we tend to do that because we feel validated and affirmed when men pay attention to us and no, it's not always to do with our looks. Sometimes, it's about our body language and eye contact.

I know what this is called, its called flirting and low self-esteem. That's not my issue, it sounds like you are saying some how its me and I'm the problem. When I am aware of all the things that go on..... as if I'm twirling my hair and saying "I don't know why they won't be nice to me." Absolutely not, I 'm totally aware of the behavior of men and women, I just thought it would be different with christian women.
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When I became less interested in "my" looks...so did others and especially other women - I now have lots of female friends and even a few that I would call "best" friends. We laugh, we cry, we live out the gospel with one another.


I wear jeans, gym and a baseball cap shoes on the weekends, I try not to comb my hair until Monday morning. it takes me a full 20 minutes to get ready for work. I'm not caught up in looks at all, I look at the inside of a person not the out, I could careless how a person looks. My mother never put emphases on looks always how we behaved. She never got caught up in looks and she never put it on her girls. As much as you may think we do listen to our parents. csl7037 I suggest you keep on talking to her and don't let up.



Consecrated2God -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/9/2008 7:29:03 PM)

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I try not to comb my hair until Monday morning.


Why do you do that? I couldn't imagine not combing my hair everyday. It feels gross if I don't do something with it.



jlp1 -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/9/2008 9:15:33 PM)

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Why do you do that? I couldn't imagine not combing my hair everyday. It feels gross if I don't do something with it.

Too much work, so I would wear hats........if I could get away with it......put it in a ponytail and keepittamovin



doinkdom -> RE: beauty stereotype by other women (6/10/2008 11:04:10 AM)

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ORIGINAL: jlp1
I know what this is called, its called flirting and low self-esteem. That's not my issue, it sounds like you are saying some how its me and I'm the problem. When I am aware of all the things that go on..... as if I'm twirling my hair and saying "I don't know why they won't be nice to me." Absolutely not, I 'm totally aware of the behavior of men and women, I just thought it would be different with christian women.


I wasn't referring to flirting, I was talking about a natural migration.

But, quite frankly, if you're encountering this...find a new group.

You've made every effort and still feel rejected, move on till you find a group that fits for you. There is one out there, there are female friends to be had. Don't stop looking now.



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