Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (Full Version)

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bval -> Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/7/2008 1:50:38 AM)

Read Eph. 4:8
Now read the scripture Paul is referring to, Ps. 68:18
They're different.
And not that sort of whoops over the years mis-translation...
The psalm talks about God's triumphant procession to Sinai/the throne room, where the whole world is recognizing his holiness by showing him with gifts. And yet Paul says he gives gifts to US.
I'm all for the theology of the gifts, but this stumped me.
What's going on here?

peace--bval



JordanW -> RE: Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/7/2008 2:31:18 AM)

I compared them and they are the same in my Bible. Also where does it say he is referring to that scripture? It's the same for me though.



drmark -> RE: Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/7/2008 11:38:42 AM)

The NIV study notes for Eph 4:8 indicate that Paul restated the phrase "God received gifts from men" using current rabbinical interpretations of his day to translate the Hebrew preposition "from" into the meaning "to" and then couple that with the alternate meaning "gave" for the original meaning "received". Apparently Paul was applying this interpretation to the gift of grace we all have received from Christ's victory over sin and death.



deliveredarling -> RE: Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/7/2008 3:33:06 PM)

My commentary puts it this way: "The gifts He received among mens reward for His finished work on the cross (Ps 68:18), He turned around and gave these same gifts to men for the establishment and and expansion of His church (Eph. 4:8).



claybj -> RE: Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/8/2008 6:56:39 AM)

BVAL,

Paul only quotes the first part of Ps 68:18... watch closely to your right division. The latter part of Ps 68:18 speaks directly of Israel and her relationship w/ Christ as their High Priest.

Eph 4 is the gifts that Jesus gave to the Body of Christ. And he gave us apostles, prophets, evengelists, pastors and teachers. (We won't get into a discussion here about the difference in these gifts to the BODY, and those gifts from pre-Acts 28:28 in 1 Corinthians 12.)

Here's a quick study from Jesus Himself to help you rightly divide a verse:

Compare Isa 61:2 with Luke 4:19.

This is the easiest example to use for understanding how to divide a single verse into different time periods. Jesus Himself purposely leaves off the latter half of Isa 61:2. Why? Paul gives us this answer here... 2 Thes 2:2-5.

- clay



eschatologist -> RE: Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/8/2008 4:48:13 PM)

They seem pretty similar to me. In the KJV Psalms 68:18 says, "Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast recieved gifts for men; (notice it says for men, not from men) for the rebellious also, that the Lord might dwell among them." then verse 19 "Blessed be the Lord who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our Salvation." So it looks to me like it's saying the Lord recieved heavenly gifts from on high, which were freely distributed to men through Salvation and the gifts of the Holy spirit. This seems to be what Paul is also saying, because he's talking about the gifts of the spirit that God gives to everybody in the church according to their talents and abilities. "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." (Ephesians 4:12)



bval -> RE: Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/9/2008 1:28:41 AM)

Thanks all.
Really appreciate your time an effort on this.
drmark--i think what you're saying follows my first intuitions about what happened in the verse transition
I asked an alum of Moody Bible Institute this question and his first thoughts were very similar. Thanks for looking into the historical and cultural context of it; for me those factors have always made more sense than just trusting some commentary.
I'll definitely look into that more.
This wasn't a faith buster for me, but certainly intriguing.
>in case y'all are curious, I've started a blog dealing with similar questions and thoughts relating to my "christian" life. I'd love all of you to come, comment and contribute
"aswearegoing.blogspot.com"

follow the most excellent Way---bval



drmark -> RE: Eph.4:8 and Ps. 68:18 (6/9/2008 8:46:38 AM)

quote:

This wasn't a faith buster for me, but certainly intriguing.
So is your faith in the absolutely perfect use of OT Scripture by NT writers or is it in the Life, Death, and Resurrection of the Second Person of the Triune God? It would take a whole lot more than this to even think about "busting my faith"!



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