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Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 8:01:34 PM
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sunofone
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And Adam gave names to all cattle,and to the fowl of the,and to every beast of the field;but for Adam there was not found an help fit for him.
And the Lord God said it is not good that the man should be alone;I will make him an help fit for him.
Why do you suppose Eve was made after Adam? The story reads as if she was an afterthought,was she?
If not is there some reason that can be known as to why she was created second,and seemingly an afterthought of God?
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 8:12:15 PM
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john_mark
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interesting question. i think God communicates to us thru a story. not an untrue story, but truth told in the manner of a story. God could have simply written in a sytematic way where He just gave a list of truths like the 10 commandments, but for earlier cultures who did not have bibles stories were able to communicate the truth in away that could easily be taught.
that being said i think the story in part anyway shows the seperation between man and all other created beings. adam seems to be portrayed as a special creation, God breathing life into him. after surveying all the rest of creation nothing was found that was equal to man, so again God performed a special act of creation in woman. these two, adam and eve stand alone outside of the rest of creation.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 8:20:01 PM
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Robert_G
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There is no such thing as God having an afterthought.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 8:57:07 PM
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sunofone
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We know it is more than a story that Eve was created after Adam, as Paul highlights this fact in argument for the woman being under the authority of the man.
But I permit not a woman to teach,nor to usurp ,authority over the man,but to be in silence.For Adam was first formed then Eve.
If there is no such thing as God having an after thought why does the story read as though he did?
And the Lord God said it is not good that the man should be alone;
God clearly says here that he created Adam,and that he was both alone and that it was not good that he should remain that way.He then created Eve as the story goes to remedy this.
So again was Eve an afterthought? If not why were they not created at the same time?
< Message edited by sunofone -- 6/7/2008 9:09:27 PM >
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 9:10:40 PM
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SonInMe1
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It was how He created Adam...to need a helpmate.
Many women today balk at the biblical gender roles because they believe them to be...written by ancient men when women had no equal standing....or as a lesser role. Notice God did not create Eve with a need to be helped. He created man with the need to be helped and in that role, women find the purpose for which they were created....and....
it also states, clearly, that men are needful and logically it follows that women tend to be more independent, since they were not created to need a helpmate but to be the helpmate.
To me...that is why God said that wives should be obediant....its built in them to exist as the helper and not the needful and in being this, they are challeneged with control issues.
Men also were called to be leaders, which for them is difficult because..they need help. Like submissiveness in wives, husbands leadership is contrary to their needful natures and in doing so they grow spiritually.
Is God sadistic in creating what seem to be opposites in the charactors of our genders? No, He seeks growth...and dependence on Him...so we might mature into the beings He wants us to be.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 9:16:37 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
Was Eve an afterthought?
Who cares? What possible difference does it make? Some of the questions I've been reading here lately make me shake my head in amazement. It's disrespectful, imo.
I agree with Robert...God doesn't have afterthoughts. God is God and He does as He pleases. His ways are prefect. He does not have to justify nor explain anything He says or does to mere mortals nor do we have to understand everything He says and does...not that we could grasp it anyway with our minute pea brains.
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." -Isaiah 55
_____________________________
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 9:26:37 PM
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john_mark
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my point was that because creation history is told to us a story and not as systematic theology we may not be able to answer your question. as you stated, we know from paul that the fact that adam was created first had importance, but paul was writing in a systematic format. absent any direct teaching from scripture how can we know for certain?
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 9:27:53 PM
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SomeFineDay
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No, it was the case of saving the best for last. 
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 10:33:39 PM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
Was Eve an afterthought?
Who cares? What possible difference does it make? Some of the questions I've been reading here lately make me shake my head in amazement. It's disrespectful, imo.
I agree with Robert...God doesn't have afterthoughts. God is God and He does as He pleases. His ways are prefect. He does not have to justify nor explain anything He says or does to mere mortals nor do we have to understand everything He says and does...not that we could grasp it anyway with our minute pea brains.
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." -Isaiah 55
quote:
Why do you suppose Eve was made after Adam? The story reads as if she was an afterthought,was she?
If not is there some reason that can be known as to why she was created second,and seemingly an afterthought of God?
Note is there some reason that can be known as to why God created her when he did?
You may not care for the question and that's fine, you are more then welcome to ignore it, dismiss it,but I want to know if this question can be answered.
Either you can help with this or you can't.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 10:38:41 PM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: john_mark
my point was that because creation history is told to us a story and not as systematic theology we may not be able to answer your question. as you stated, we know from paul that the fact that adam was created first had importance, but paul was writing in a systematic format. absent any direct teaching from scripture how can we know for certain?
I appreciate the thought,I do think that there are scriptures that point to an answer to this question,as with anything though certainty may be hard bar reach 
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 11:25:17 PM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
Are you saying that my post wasn't good enough?
Do you have something in mind that you want us to post, but we're just not getting it? You know - a bit of "pin the tail on what the OP is wanting us to say"?
I'm not trying to be snarky; I don't understand what you mean by your last post.
By the way, SonInMe - that was a very interesting post. It provoked my thoughts.
No, I was actually thankful that you dared to think what God might have been doing in creating Eve in the manner which he did.I do however have some thoughts as to why God did as he did here.
I don't like steering the post in any given direction based on my thoughts.I like to see what other people bring to the discussion,so I can learn something I may not have considered.
So I did not mean to offend you,I was just glad to see you put forth an effort to think about what God might be trying to show us here.Thanks
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 11:32:30 PM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
It was how He created Adam...to need a helpmate.
Many women today balk at the biblical gender roles because they believe them to be...written by ancient men when women had no equal standing....or as a lesser role. Notice God did not create Eve with a need to be helped. He created man with the need to be helped and in that role, women find the purpose for which they were created....and....
it also states, clearly, that men are needful and logically it follows that women tend to be more independent, since they were not created to need a helpmate but to be the helpmate.
To me...that is why God said that wives should be obediant....its built in them to exist as the helper and not the needful and in being this, they are challeneged with control issues.
Men also were called to be leaders, which for them is difficult because..they need help. Like submissiveness in wives, husbands leadership is contrary to their needful natures and in doing so they grow spiritually.
Is God sadistic in creating what seem to be opposites in the charactors of our genders? No, He seeks growth...and dependence on Him...so we might mature into the beings He wants us to be.
It's funny how I find both agreement and disagreement with your post at the same time.LOL
I don't want to get into it just yet,because I know the post will splinter off if I do.For now I just want to acknowledge your post and address it a little further down the line in more specific detail.
I'm hoping to get some more thoughts as to the op before I address your thoughts head on.Thanks for what you brought to the discussion,I believe it ties in nicely with some thoughts I've had concerning the womans role.
To be continued
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 11:38:28 PM
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LCannon
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Adam's question points out the difference between an imagination of a future and the lack of a future sense of the animals. No animal has the capability to asks that question.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/7/2008 11:41:56 PM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
Adam's question points out the difference between an imagination of a future and the lack of a future sense of the animals. No animal has the capability to asks that question.
I don't know what you mean here? Mind explaining it a bit please?
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/8/2008 12:14:27 AM
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LCannon
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Animals do want their appetites dictate while we(should)have the sense to imagine the the consequences for our(and mankind's)future. Adam 'saw' the future without a mate.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/8/2008 6:23:42 AM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
Animals do want their appetites dictate while we(should)have the sense to imagine the the consequences for our(and mankind's)future. Adam 'saw' the future without a mate.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/8/2008 6:59:25 AM
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sunofone
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I don't believe I'm guilty of over thinking,or suggesting that it's to much of a stretch to say that God is purposeful in all that he does.Nothing catches him off guard,he is not absent minded.He's not figuring it out as he goes along.
There was no oops,I knew I was forgetting something,or oh no what just happened here,and what do I have to do now to fix it! As impossible as it is to claim to know the mind and plans of God,he does not intend to leave us clueless.
In fact if anything this bible we are blessed to have in our hands is filled with dare I say it CLUES!This question is not intended to be an endless maze or the jokers riddle. I want us to think,and see what God intended us to see.
There is enough meat on the bones of the creation story to eat on for years.The bible is a treasure chest of truth,it's like a treasure map of sorts.It seems once you successfully unlock one truth you get keys to unlock another,so on and so forth.
It is exhilarating,frustrating,rewarding,and dangerous to search out it's treasures.God must be sought,and there is no reward for the uninspired lazy,you tell me once you figured it out Christian.
If you want to know God you must seek him,dig for him,inquire of him, search him out.That's all I'm inviting us to do here.Let's search him out in this one question.
We all know that God is not haphazard in any of his doings,everything he does is done with precision and excellence.Like a master Chess player every seemingly meaningless move is the move that ultimately leads to check mate.
This is our calling Saints,we are called to learn of the Master chess player,his moves have been recorded for us to study,examine put under the microscope,to behold his awesomeness.
I want us to think,to purposely,actively engage our Creator,and inquire about those things that can be known,starting with this question here.What do you suppose God was trying to say.
At some point I will show by way of scripture,not just fancy conjecture what God was showing us.I hate to even put in definite words like that, as if to suggest that there could only be one reason or that I've discovered his reason(s)
It's better to say that I will show what he has allowed me to see when considering this question.I don't have a monopoly on truth,I'm just one more truth seeker here.
I love playing in the dirt,It always amazes me yet bores me to the brink of insanity watching archaeologist.How tedious the process of discovery is.The incredible hours of research,the careful excavation for treasure,the meticulous way artifacts and ruins are preserved and catalogued.How amazingly truth can be discovered seemingly by accident,i.e. searching out or for one thing and discovering something unintended instead.
For me I see this walk we are on,and this bible we have in our hands to be no less fascinating,but only to those who are willing to search it out.So if you see me ask a question around here,trust and believe I've done some thinking about it before I posted,and even if I haven't as yet found a satisfactory answer to it yet,I am digging for it.
Sometimes I like to collaborate with other like minded diggers,to see what two or more minds can discover together.So I hope some of you will be willing to dig with me,if not that's ok too.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/8/2008 11:00:34 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
If there is no such thing as God having an after thought why does the story read as though he did?
And the Lord God said it is not good that the man should be alone; There is your reason. God wanted to make this statement. God often uses a situation that needs resolution to reveal something, like the blind beggar that Jesus healed.The disciples asked who had sinned. Jesus answered tht the blindness was to show God's glory.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/8/2008 8:11:26 PM
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4IMPersuaded
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
IMHO, I don't think Eve was an afterthought. I'm assuming that all the animals had female mates. Perhaps God made him first and paraded all the animals in front of him so that Adam would notice that someone was missing. Ya know, help him see that he needed a mate as well. Then when Adam had that realization, God provided the mate.
Perhaps it was a way for Adam to appreciate what he got!
This is purely conjecture, though.
Tricia, I 'd tend to agree with you on this. There are countless times in the Biblical accounts where God asked a question or otherwise allowed one of His children to come to a conclusion without being direct in his explanation. In this instance, He does say that it is not good that man should be alone, but he allows man to look around and see the rest of the created beasts with their mates. He was allowed to see that there was a need-- his task would be overwhelming if he had to do it alone...
God knows that in our human-ness, we don't always take direction well. We have to learn the hard way-- I have certainly seen this in my own life. I wish I could learn from other's experiences, but sadly I usually have to come to the conclusion myself.
And you are correct-- this is purely conjecture. It doesn't matter, really, except to know that God doesn't "forget" or have afterthoughts. His plan is perfect and he is infallable.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/8/2008 8:24:04 PM
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LivingParadox
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Afterthought? An afterthought for a Omnipotent, Omnipresence God? Who is the Alpha and the Omega (the Beginning and the End)... considering that Jesus was with God in Spirit before Adam and Eve sinned.
Eve as a afterthought...no more than God knowing he'd send his Son before he created us. So my answer, NO Eve wasn't an afterthought and basis of your question is more about how God presented Adam's need.
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RE: Was Eve an afterthought? - 6/8/2008 11:00:17 PM
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mikejonesoftn
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Hoping I am not going off topic but putting a light bulb above someones head so that we could go more indepth on this subject.
Someone quoted
quote:
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." -Isaiah 55
With that very scripture, I do believe to say it's safe to say that the Lord does think. However when he comes to his decision, it's perfect and never a mistake. So with that being said, do you not think that it's "possible" God thought and said "I will make a helper for man." Not thinking it before he created man?
quote:
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." Could possibly be proof to him thinking and not ever making a mistake, as we can think and still make a mistake.
< Message edited by mikejonesoftn -- 6/8/2008 11:06:21 PM >
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