Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (Full Version)

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artemis -> Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 8:52:21 AM)

Lexie's post in PPS about second language schools reminded me that I've had this question for a while:

If you and/or your spouse could "get by" in a foreign language, but were by no means fluent, would you speak to your child in that language from time to time or just stick to your native language and let them learn a foreign language in school or something where they'd hear it spoken fluently and correctly?



betterisoneday -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 8:58:47 AM)

I do, and my father did. Personally I like the idea because it can (depending on the language) teach them letter sounds other than just English.
I happen to find almost all languages extremely interesting though so... [:D]



manda59 -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 9:00:45 AM)

Yes, we did, and still do the former! [:)]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 10:06:20 AM)

I spoke Spanish around the kids when they were young. It isn't so much about them learning to speak it, it's more about them hearing the different sounds and cadence and so on. Although, I can remember Brandon being really proud of himself for conducting an entire ice-cream-buying session in the park entirely in Spanish.

None of us are as good as we once were, though.



artemis -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 10:28:11 AM)

Adding to the original question... would you speak to your children in a language that your spouse couldn't undestand?



garsyt -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 11:19:08 AM)

My ds is taking German in school currently and will be entering his second year of it in the fall. Neither his father or I can speak a lick of German, but it's the language he wanted to try. He is considering 2 more years of German and then 2 years of Spanish or French. My hubby took Spanish in highschool but is not fluent at all and this fall is going to be taking his second year of college Spanish. I have NO foreign language experience at all as it was not required for graduation from highschool until AFTER I graduated. I do "speak" somewhat fluent sign language, but it was ALL self taught, so I'm certain that I'm missing something - My children are fluent enough to get by and at least hold a conversation or translate the basics for someone else.

Now for the questions -

quote:

If you and/or your spouse could "get by" in a foreign language, but were by no means fluent, would you speak to your child in that language from time to time or just stick to your native language and let them learn a foreign language in school or something where they'd hear it spoken fluently and correctly?


quote:

would you speak to your children in a language that your spouse couldn't undestand?


Some is better then none in my opinion. Now because I'm not an expert in Sign I do resort to my books on a regular basis - but my kids are eager to learn so I teach them. My eldest loves languages so if I could speak any of the languages he is interested in of course I would speak what I knew. He is by no means fluent - BUT his younger siblings are eagar to learn so he's teaching them some basics in German. I'm suberbly grateful for the teacher my ds has had who is extremely fluent and has been a great teacher. BUT my kids are also learning some Spanish from my husband. And I don't understand a lick of it. Sometimes I have an idea of what's being talked about and sometimes I don't . It's okay really, at least with me.

Blessings,

Garsy



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 12:26:46 PM)

we are not fluent in anything but English, but we have lived in Germany and picked up many words and phrases, and before I got married I learned enough Spanish and Sign to get by with.....we use all three of those in our everyday lives. Our kids know the basic phrases (hubby likes to use "come here please" in German cause our kids know immediately it is him calling them)...but in no way are we fluently teaching them much more right now. We do however use all three along with English that we obviously use most of the time. Our last name is Spanish, so we are teaching them to say it right...not like how hubby's dad says it (TOTALLY wrong!!!!)



Brandy -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 12:49:03 PM)

I speak decent Spanish to get through a trip to Mexico. We plan on me speaking both to the babe and husband says he'd like to pick some up too. That may result in us getting some Spanish teaching DVD's for kiddos that they watch together [;)]

We want/feel that Spanish, conversational, is the way to go in the area we live in and this country in general. It's soo much easier to order in Spanish at certain places than it is in English.

I don't want my children to not know it and have a need to at some point.



lexie -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 1:25:55 PM)

Since I'm partly the reason for the start of this thread[;)]

We're thinking about putting our children in French Immersion school. There are a lot of benefits in Canada to being bilingual. I would have loved to work in government but my French isn't good enough.

When I was kid we had to take French from grade 1 to 9, then I chose to take an extra year in high school as well as in university. I am by no means fluent but I haven't had many problems when I am in Quebec.

My husband does not speak a word of French. He came to Canada in high school so he took the very basic French class that they put immigrant students in so they can get their French credit to graduate.

Even with our children in French Immersion, I wouldn't use it as a primary language in our household. I would help them do their homework in French and if it was just us then we could speak in it, as well as they could watch French television. But around my husband or any other family members I would not use it.

Growing up I heard a lot of Dutch conversation but didn't understand any of it. I know words and phrases and continue to use them, and will with my children.

My husband speaks some patois in our house since I can understand it, but for the most part, because I don't speak it, he just speaks in English. He is starting to use patois a little more so our daughter can hear it and understand it.



shadowspring -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 2:14:45 PM)

Yes to both questions. I speak/teach Spanish to my children, though I am not fluent. I am proficient though, and I have a great Spanish accent and rhythm. I have been teaching them/speaking Spanish words and phrases to them since they were babies.

My daughter loves language as a result. She's invented her own "alphabet" and codes on several occasions as she has grown. She can speak, read, write and understand Japanese very well. She is working on Russian and Chinese as well as Japanese. She is going to major in International Studies, so she can keep studying language and find a way to make a career out of it.

Other languages are played around with in our house regularly. My daughter speaks to my son in Japanese. Dad occasionally uses Portuguese words and phrases, and sometimes even Yanomami (the stone age Indian tribe he grew up with in the jungle with his missionary family).

We can all speak and understand Spanish well enough to get by on vacation in Mexico or help our a neighbor in a social situation (post office, talking to police about an accident, etc.).

My son will be taking Spanish III this fall, but I hear rumors form his sister that he wants to learn Korean next.

So I say, talk on! Just let it be fun, and if you think you are mangling the language, get some help. Especially if it's Spanish, there are so many native speakers around who would be happy to help with pronunciation.



artemis -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 3:33:03 PM)

I guess what worries me is that I see so many children around here who speak "Spanish" but what they actually speak is a weird conglomeration of Spanish, English, Spanglish and general slang that is not understood by anyone outside of their immediate family [&:]



Brandy -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 3:39:30 PM)

Does their speech change as they get older though? Like they grow out of it?

I've heard alot of bilingual kids speak like that for a while but once their brains sort out which language is which it settles down.

I love to hear a friends daughter speak both in the same sentence, she's 4 so it's cute still and it's usually only a word she doesn't know in english.



shadowspring -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 3:53:57 PM)

Are they just using Spanish words here and there and mixing them with English, like "leche" for milk or "quiero" for "I want"? That's what I mean by Spanglish when I use the word.

I must confess I don't know anyone who speaks a brand of a language that only their family knows, unless what the ladies at the nail salon are speaking is not really VietNamese after all! [8D]

But I've been told I don't get out much, so that may be the problem. [:D]

I think it may be worrisome if your teacher is not a native speaker, and you are never exposed to any native speakers, whether that teacher is a private, public or home school teacher.

I have a friend whose public school French teacher was not a native speaker. They focused very much on reading and writing, very little on speaking or listening comprehension. Maybe it was because she needed the paper trail, but my young friend said that it was because her teacher's accent was terrible.

Of course she only made this claim after tutoring with a native speaker of French for four months. [sm=aside.gif] Before that, she thought her teacher's French was the right way to pronounce things.

quote:

I guess what worries me is that I see so many children around here who speak "Spanish" but what they actually speak is a weird conglomeration of Spanish, English, Spanglish and general slang that is not understood by anyone outside of their immediate family


Reminds me of the King of the Hill episode where Hank says to Bobbie, "How could you flunk English, Bobbie! You speak English!' [;)]

What Bobbie Hill speaks is Texan which is close to English but not close enough to pass the course, apparently! [sm=rollingeyes.gif]



artemis -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 4:31:51 PM)

I'm talking about things like:

'stoy wachando la TV (<--I'm watching TV)

and

Vamos a lonchear with my welita (<--we're going to eat lunch with my grandmother)

and a bunch of other things that I can't understand... and neither can my fluent Spanish speaking students. I've just run into a lot of people who think they speak Spanish and don't actually [sm=icon_smile_boggled.gif]



Auben -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 5:08:48 PM)

Yes and yes, for the reasons Jenny gave.

It's not about them learning the language per se. It's about them picking up the intonation, the sound, the cadence of the language.

Slang is not a big deal. Over time they can work that out and they'll still have an incredible head start.



artemis -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 5:16:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shadowspring
Of course she only made this claim after tutoring with a native speaker of French for four months. [sm=aside.gif] Before that, she thought her teacher's French was the right way to pronounce things.


I used to work as a bilingual tutor and my ESL students were supposed to be learning English in their classes (they did their core work in Spanish for the first year or two in America), but I couldn't understand a word they said. Their English was incomprehensible... as was their teacher's [8|]

quote:


Reminds me of the King of the Hill episode where Hank says to Bobbie, "How could you flunk English, Bobbie! You speak English!' [;)]


There was a substitute in my old school district who claimed she spoke Spanish, but after I left her with my class one day, my students told me, "She doesn't speak real Spanish... she speaks 'Peggy Hill Spanish!'" [8D]


I guess I just worry that I'll somehow mess my kid up for life by whatever decision we make [&:] I'm the oldest in my family and my dad always called me his PK... his practice kid. He'd say, "Well that didn't work... we'll get it right with the next kid." [sm=icon_smile_boggled.gif]



lexie -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 8:21:37 PM)

Are there language immersion schools in the US the way we have French Immersion?

The school we would put our children in, only French would be spoken by teachers and students for most of the primary grades. Once they get to intermediate and high school grades, then they begin to take some courses in English, like maths and sciences.



Brandy -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 8:27:11 PM)

Lexie are those public schools?

We don't have that here, I think there are a few immersion schools here in the Los Angeles area but boy howdy are they expensive and ELITE.

Amy I don't think you can totally mess them up because you KNOW what you want to avoid, so if you start hearing slang you don't like you can nip it in the bud.

I haven't run into any kids using the style you mentioned, I don't have a whole of school age kiddo's to check on though but I will be watching out now!



shadowspring -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 9:26:30 PM)

quote:

Vamos a lonchear with my welita (<--we're going to eat lunch with my grandmother)
[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif] [sm=icon_smile_faint.gif]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 9:26:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: artemis

I'm talking about things like:

'stoy wachando la TV (<--I'm watching TV)

and

Vamos a lonchear with my welita (<--we're going to eat lunch with my grandmother)

and a bunch of other things that I can't understand... and neither can my fluent Spanish speaking students. I've just run into a lot of people who think they speak Spanish and don't actually [sm=icon_smile_boggled.gif]
And here you give the reasons this Gringa was able to make a living tutoring second-generation Mexican immigrants in Spanish in college!

Where I come from, it's rude to answer an English question with a spanish answer or vice versa.

I had a spanish teacher whose house rule was that he spoke only spanish to the kids and his wife spoke only English. I have no idea what they spoke together, lol, but it worked quite well for their kids!
I also work with a gal who speaks spanish fluently but is natively English-speaking. Her DH speaks some english. When they say something to their daughter, they say it in spanish and then again in english. She is going to school in the fall and I think they want to be sure she has a good grounding in both right now.

I have a Guatemalan friend who went to a french immersion school and now speaks about five languages fluently! I was always very impressed with his abilities.



garsyt -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 10:02:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lexie

Are there language immersion schools in the US the way we have French Immersion?

The school we would put our children in, only French would be spoken by teachers and students for most of the primary grades. Once they get to intermediate and high school grades, then they begin to take some courses in English, like maths and sciences.



In a neighboring district there is one Spanish immersion school at the elementary level and that's it.

Much of the time, unfortunately 2nd languages are often not taught until the middle school level, when kids are 12 or 13 years old.

There are however PLENTY of schools that have to offer English as a Second Language simply because of the growing Burmese population as well as others coming in with little or no background in the English language. There is one school also in a neighboring district that was profiled on the news not all that long ago that has 13 different languages spoken amongst it's students! Unfortunately this school is on academic probation because our state makes NO provisions for these students when it comes to taking state mandated testing each Fall, and unfortunately many of these students struggle for a time while learning English. Yet these kids can answer the questions and are excellent students when things are explained in their native tounge.

Blessings,

Garsy



garsyt -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/9/2008 10:12:43 PM)

quote:

I have a Guatemalan friend who went to a french immersion school and now speaks about five languages fluently! I was always very impressed with his abilities.


We know a young man that began studying languages when he was 9 or 10. He taught himself Spanish via some program his father picked up at a yard sale. By age 13 he was fluent! He has studied French, German, Latin, and is currently learning Hebrew, and Japanese. He graduated from highschool this year and is planning a career in international relations. He is also taking time to further his studies at a university in Japan this coming Fall on a FULL scholarship!

Blessings,

Garsy



lexie -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/10/2008 7:30:43 AM)

quote:

Lexie are those public schools?


Yes, they are public schools, that are done by the local school boards and follow the same curriculum. We won't have to pay anything for our children to go to the school (except maybe a bussing fee.)

quote:

There are however PLENTY of schools that have to offer English as a Second Language


I think every school around here has ESL programs.

We have an elementary school across the street from us that goes from Junior Kindergarten to Grade 5. It was over 1700 students in it - there are 20 separate kindergarten classes! 80% of the students are in ESL.



Auben -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/10/2008 10:24:54 AM)

Some of the larger cities are tinkering with young elementary immersion or bi-lingual classes but it's far from the norm in the US. Foreign language education is mostly academic, elective, and started after elementary school.

I worked for Berlitz for a few years in my 20s (I taught ESL, scheduled classes, did method training). Most of the teachers were foreign born and married to Americans (a few were Americans married to someone from another culture). Most of them spoke only their native language to their children. One parent spoke only English and one parent spoke only the other language (Spanish or German or Portuguese or French or Cantonese). Generally it took children an extra year to get an equal handle on both languages but they had a good understanding of both languages by 3. Usually the mother's (or primary caregiver's) language has more influence in the early years.

The only problem is that often when children start public school they go through a time when they don't want to speak anything other than English (or the majority language if in another country) and there can be some stress as the parents decide whether to continue or not.

I knew dozens of parents who've used this method and all the children sorted out the 2 language mix by 5. Half stopped speaking the language after they started school. Most could still understand much of the language as teens when visiting relatives even if they didn't feel comfortable speaking it.



schupfNoodle -> RE: Would you speak to your child in a language you didn't speak fluently? (6/10/2008 3:16:19 PM)

The children of my friend speak to her in the dominant language and she speaks to them in her mother tongue. That's what I want to avoid. We're in Germany and I'd want my son to respond to me in English.

I also speak other dialects to my son but not when my husband is around. The same goes for him. He can speak in German dialect but not when I'm in the same room. I think it's common courtesy that the other person doesn't feel left out. Funny though, I speak English to dh and he responds in his own language.



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