RE: Radiation from mobile phones (Full Version)

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Giulia -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/13/2008 10:51:16 PM)

I think that with free trade and the slackening of governement control over goods exchanged corporations should take more responsibility over what they market and sell. Yes everyone has a choice, however the level of influence marketing can have on people should not be ignored.



Ps103 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/13/2008 11:01:19 PM)

Is there evidence that cellular phones are dangerous per se?



Giulia -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/14/2008 3:51:09 AM)

quote:

Is there evidence that cellular phones are dangerous per se?


There is an amount or degree of factual evidence and it should not be taken lightly.



Ps103 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/14/2008 11:22:19 AM)

Are there any studies at all that deal with the newer, digital phones?

Every study I have ever seen mentioned a) had no conclusive evidence and b) dealt with the old analog phones.

And I have never seen anything to suggest that low-to-moderate use would do anything at all. It all deals with heavy use.

So, if I *were* worried about this, I would not throw away my cell phone, I would just not go around with it glued to my ear all the time. Or, if I couldn't keep myself from yakking on the thing 24/7, I would use an earpiece.

I am just not seeing the problem here.



humbleinspirit -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/14/2008 1:32:21 PM)

I have not really read this thread, however I thought that the radiation issue with cell phones went away since so many people have been embracing them. I guess that I could be wrong though.



Giulia -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/14/2008 10:23:04 PM)

quote:

I have not really read this thread, however I thought that the radiation issue with cell phones went away since so many people have been embracing them. I guess that I could be wrong though.


Exactly. They are convenient and people don't even want to entertain the fact that they may be contributing to cancer. Some people are even ruled by their phones.

quote:

Are there any studies at all that deal with the newer, digital phones?

Every study I have ever seen mentioned a) had no conclusive evidence and b) dealt with the old analog phones.


Must of been an old study as we haven't used analogs for years.

I am not just being an alarmist for the sake of it. I think that our health is way more important than the convenience of being contacted pronto. The reason I started this thread is because there was an hr long doco with people's testimonies that mobile phones were the cause of their tumour. They were all heavy users and all had the tumour around their right ear. Many reported tingling sensations when using the mobile phone for long periods of time. It ought to be taken seriously.



iluvatar -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/14/2008 10:47:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia
I have not done research into microwaves but I know that the radiation is a force I would rather not interact with. It's just an instict. Sometimes instincts are true. I think mobile phones should be used sparingly.


Microwaves are a form of electromagnetic radiation, just like tv signals, UV rays, and visible light. Different frequency bands cause different effects, but they aren't the same as nuclear radiation, which is what you're thinking of.

-Dan.



Ps103 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/14/2008 11:40:31 PM)

Giula, you still have not linked to or cited one credible study that shows any correlation between cell phone use and cancer.

Anecdotal evidence is nothing.

But, for the record, I have had a cell phone for about 20 years. My current phone is ~two years old, and the life-timer on the phone is right at 5 hours, meaning I average 12.5 minutes a month. I am not worried about this, but then, I am a light cell phone user.

On the other hand, I have a friend who is seriously epileptic (grand mal seizures). She has had a cell phone as long as I have, and talks on it *constantly.* One would think that if a cell phone was capable of causing cancer in her brain, it would be very likely to first trigger fits in her--yet her epilepsy is well-controlled and her doctors have never suggested that there is some sort of risk to her using it.

So there is my anecdotal evidence, which is worth about as much as the show you saw.[;)]

When people get sick or die, they (or their heirs) cast out a line trying to blame and sue someone. That is what this is.



Sophie11 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/15/2008 10:57:59 AM)

I completely agree with you, Ps103.



1love1God1way -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/15/2008 12:39:12 PM)

I always make sure to wear my aluminum foil hat when talking on my cell phone.



rnershigh -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/15/2008 12:43:49 PM)

Giulia,

I think what some experience may be something called electrosensitivity.
I did some googling and a small % of people (I think it is 3% in the U.S.) experience extreme forms of electrosensitivty.
Others only mild to moderate.
One of the symptoms are skin problems such as numbness or tingling of the skin.
This is not something that is acknowledged as a legitimate illness or problem in the U.S., as most of the articles and information I found were from European sources that looked into this matter.

I'd say I have a mild case of it, I only get the numbness and tingling, with dull ache and I am glad to know I'm not the only one and it's not all in my head.



Giulia -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/18/2008 8:06:50 AM)

quote:

Giula, you still have not linked to or cited one credible study that shows any correlation between cell phone use and cancer.

Anecdotal evidence is nothing.


You obviously diregarded everything I said. How are people's personal experiences anecdotal? If you don't have any respect or regard for what has been reported it does not mean it is not true. How much tragedy has passed through the ages because people did not listen.



Sophie11 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/18/2008 8:32:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

If you don't have any respect or regard for what has been reported it does not mean it is not true.


Yes but I think what a lot of people are saying is that it does not mean that it is true either. And it's not a matter of having no respect or regard for what illness has befallen some folks, it's just that with all of the hype and wild stories (such as the popcorn one) floating around out there it is perfectly reasonable to expect some people to believe cell phones to be the cause, but just because that is what they believe does not make it real.



Ps103 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/18/2008 11:32:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

quote:

Giula, you still have not linked to or cited one credible study that shows any correlation between cell phone use and cancer.

Anecdotal evidence is nothing.


You obviously diregarded everything I said. How are people's personal experiences anecdotal? If you don't have any respect or regard for what has been reported it does not mean it is not true. How much tragedy has passed through the ages because people did not listen.



Well, because people say whatever pops into their heads, about half the time.[;)]

Until recently, lots of people believed that you would die if you ate fish and drank milk at the same meal. They could point to relatives that died after right after eating fish and drinking milk. Even the doctors would tell people not to do it. I have a few dead relatives whose last meal was fish and who drank milk with it, then stood up from the supper table and keeled over.

I am pretty sure what they actually had was a heart attack.

Until recently many people also believed that if a female took a bath during a certain time of the month, she would catch tuberculosis. They knew women who had done it and ended up with tuberculois, therefore it *had* to be true--right?

People believe that where there is a hat rack there is a hat, and that simply is not true.

So, absent any convincing studies that show a correlation betwen cell phone use and cancer, this falls into the fish-n-milk/tuberculosis category.



Roberta_ -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/18/2008 11:41:01 AM)

I heard this a very long time ago. It was when my birth mother was still somewhat healthy. She's been deceased for about seven years now. I thought it was somehow disproved or proven to be a hoax. I could be wrong though.



Giulia -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/21/2008 4:03:10 PM)

quote:

Until recently, lots of people believed that you would die if you ate fish and drank milk at the same meal. They could point to relatives that died after right after eating fish and drinking milk. Even the doctors would tell people not to do it. I have a few dead relatives whose last meal was fish and who drank milk with it, then stood up from the supper table and keeled over.


They are completely different. You are talking about wives tales . This is different. It has been taken seriously by doctors, unlike the former.

quote:

So, absent any convincing studies that show a correlation betwen cell phone use and cancer, this falls into the fish-n-milk/tuberculosis category.


Again, completely different. There have been no convincing studies about other facts which are true. Lack of concrete evidence does not equate to truth. Even if it is backed my medical studies. Extensive studies could not prove miracles, for example. Tingling sensations and reports of other damging effects have been documented. "Wives tales" are not the same as this.

Back to the point I did not take down the details but this doctor had done extensive studies. He had aprox half hr min (perhaps longer) footage of the case he was stating about mobile phones complete with a couple of people who had gotten nasty tumours around the ear and experienced tingling sensations are they spoke for long periods of time. Many people reported this burning sensation after long periods of talk time. There were other reports of the research. I think the probability has remained largely unexplored and the fact that a lot of money is involved may also prevent that information to be published.



Sophie11 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/21/2008 4:39:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

quote:

Until recently, lots of people believed that you would die if you ate fish and drank milk at the same meal. They could point to relatives that died after right after eating fish and drinking milk. Even the doctors would tell people not to do it. I have a few dead relatives whose last meal was fish and who drank milk with it, then stood up from the supper table and keeled over.


They are completely different. You are talking about wives tales . This is different. It has been taken seriously by doctors, unlike the former.

quote:

So, absent any convincing studies that show a correlation betwen cell phone use and cancer, this falls into the fish-n-milk/tuberculosis category.


Again, completely different. There have been no convincing studies about other facts which are true. Lack of concrete evidence does not equate to truth. Even if it is backed my medical studies. Extensive studies could not prove miracles, for example. Tingling sensations and reports of other damging effects have been documented. "Wives tales" are not the same as this.

Back to the point I did not take down the details but this doctor had done extensive studies. He had aprox half hr min (perhaps longer) footage of the case he was stating about mobile phones complete with a couple of people who had gotten nasty tumours around the ear and experienced tingling sensations are they spoke for long periods of time. Many people reported this burning sensation after long periods of talk time. There were other reports of the research. I think the probability has remained largely unexplored and the fact that a lot of money is involved may also prevent that information to be published.


You are basing this on one doctor's study? But there are many more doctors who would disagree.
And I personally have never heard anyone using a cell phone complain of any tingling or burning sensation. It would be interesting to hear from others on this forum if they have had any personal experience with any of these symptoms.



Giulia -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/22/2008 2:04:25 AM)

Yes, it would be interesting. I for one get tingling sensations when I use the phone for a long convo. So I keep my mobile ph usage down to minimal. Equating this with eating fish and milk together is ridiculous as it is not the same thing. That's like saying eating broccoli grows hairs on your chest. Some people say that. I still have no hairs on my chest and eat broccoli a lot.

The pop corn video is apparently a ploy for marketing accessories for mobile phones. I say that if there is the least bit of concern (and there is) that the corporation should take steps to minimalise the danger. One way to do this would be to give ear pieces out for free with a mobile ph purchase.



Sophie11 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/22/2008 10:04:01 AM)

Yes, but then what about ear pieces? The people I know who use earpieces usually have their phone stuck in thier pocket or are holding it in their hand. Have there been many reported cases of tumors in the hands of cell phone users? It is a serious question, I am not trying to be a smart aleck. I think if there is any correlation between cell phones and tumors then the tumors would affect more than just your ear or brain, they would affect ANY area that has repeated exposure.



Ps103 -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/22/2008 11:46:05 AM)

quote:

Lack of concrete evidence does not equate to truth.


I know a lot of people that must have that same quote embroidered on a pillow, or something[;)] What on earth does it mean? I know--I'll ask John Edwards--he made a fortune with that sort of thing.

quote:

They are completely different. You are talking about wives tales . This is different. It has been taken seriously by doctors, unlike the former.


Not really--these were example of people--including doctors--searching for causality without sufficient knowledge, just like the "cell phone cause cancer!" scare.

quote:

Back to the point I did not take down the details but this doctor had done extensive studies.


Where are they? Where are they published (and I do not mean the Journal of Irreproducible Results)? What other studies confirmed his findings? Remember "cold fusion?"

quote:

I think the probability has remained largely unexplored and the fact that a lot of money is involved may also prevent that information to be published.



A conspiracy, eh? Maybe we should move this thread to the proper folder, then.

quote:

I say that if there is the least bit of concern (and there is) that the corporation should take steps to minimalise the danger. One way to do this would be to give ear pieces out for free with a mobile ph purchase.


Are you sure that is not what this is all about?



iluvatar -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/22/2008 3:48:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

quote:

Giula, you still have not linked to or cited one credible study that shows any correlation between cell phone use and cancer.

Anecdotal evidence is nothing.


You obviously diregarded everything I said. How are people's personal experiences anecdotal?


Because that's what the word anecdotal means.

-Dan.



rnershigh -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/22/2008 4:08:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sophie11

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

quote:

Until recently, lots of people believed that you would die if you ate fish and drank milk at the same meal. They could point to relatives that died after right after eating fish and drinking milk. Even the doctors would tell people not to do it. I have a few dead relatives whose last meal was fish and who drank milk with it, then stood up from the supper table and keeled over.


They are completely different. You are talking about wives tales . This is different. It has been taken seriously by doctors, unlike the former.

quote:

So, absent any convincing studies that show a correlation betwen cell phone use and cancer, this falls into the fish-n-milk/tuberculosis category.


Again, completely different. There have been no convincing studies about other facts which are true. Lack of concrete evidence does not equate to truth. Even if it is backed my medical studies. Extensive studies could not prove miracles, for example. Tingling sensations and reports of other damging effects have been documented. "Wives tales" are not the same as this.

Back to the point I did not take down the details but this doctor had done extensive studies. He had aprox half hr min (perhaps longer) footage of the case he was stating about mobile phones complete with a couple of people who had gotten nasty tumours around the ear and experienced tingling sensations are they spoke for long periods of time. Many people reported this burning sensation after long periods of talk time. There were other reports of the research. I think the probability has remained largely unexplored and the fact that a lot of money is involved may also prevent that information to be published.


You are basing this on one doctor's study? But there are many more doctors who would disagree.
And I personally have never heard anyone using a cell phone complain of any tingling or burning sensation. It would be interesting to hear from others on this forum if they have had any personal experience with any of these symptoms.


I experience it.
I think there are some people, like me or Giulia, that do have these symptoms.
The dull achy, burning, and tingling sensation in my head around the ear area.
It's very uncomfortable feeling and I get it after prolonged cell phone use, at least 30 minutes.
I know a lot of people here are skeptical, but I know what I feel and I've talked to others that also experience this that get a helpless, frustrated feeling when people don't believe them when they say they are pretty sure it's their cell phone causing these sensations.
I've had people tell me it's all in my head, but obviously it's not as I have experienced these weird sensations.

I know this isn't widespread, majority of people have NO problem or symptoms from cell phone usage, so this probably accounts for the skepticism.
This doesn't mean that there isn't anything going on.
I think a minority of people are more sensitive.
Unfortunately for me, I'm in the minority.[8D]



Giulia -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/23/2008 7:30:09 AM)

quote:

Yes, but then what about ear pieces? The people I know who use earpieces usually have their phone stuck in thier pocket or are holding it in their hand. Have there been many reported cases of tumors in the hands of cell phone users? It is a serious question, I am not trying to be a smart aleck. I think if there is any correlation between cell phones and tumors then the tumors would affect more than just your ear or brain, they would affect ANY area that has repeated exposure.


True, true. I am not a scientist. I think this issue needs more studies and findings published.

quote:

A conspiracy, eh? Maybe we should move this thread to the proper folder, then.

quote:

I say that if there is the least bit of concern (and there is) that the corporation should take steps to minimalise the danger. One way to do this would be to give ear pieces out for free with a mobile ph purchase.

Are you sure that is not what this is all about?


Are you for real? You really think I brought this up because I want a free earpiece? So what does that make me then in your eyes?

How insulting! Won't hold it aginst you though, cool, no worries.

quote:

Because that's what the word anecdotal means.

-Dan.


Check the dictionary Dan, the word means "a short, interesting or amusing story" how is someone getting cancer a short, interesting or amusing story? Please tell I am waiting with abated breath.

BTW does someone here a mobile ph factory or something? Do you have family or friends in the business? Seems like some are defending like their next meal depends on it.[:D]

quote:

I know a lot of people here are skeptical, but I know what I feel and I've talked to others that also experience this that get a helpless, frustrated feeling when people don't believe them when they say they are pretty sure it's their cell phone causing these sensations.
I've had people tell me it's all in my head, but obviously it's not as I have experienced these weird sensations.

I know this isn't widespread, majority of people have NO problem or symptoms from cell phone usage, so this probably accounts for the skepticism.
This doesn't mean that there isn't anything going on.
I think a minority of people are more sensitive.
Unfortunately for me, I'm in the minority.


Yes, no need to apologise. I think people ought to start to listen to reports such as yours and mine and not just diregard us as hypocondriacs or paranoid schizos.[;)]

I must say it is terribly belittling to equate this with milk and fish and chlorine and ice cream and other non sensical fables. I think that peoples experiences are valid and that people who have reported head tumors and tingling sensations are valid given that we are dealing with radiation which is a FACT.

I think that this issue is a SERIOUS one perhaps avoided or obscured by the fact that the industry rakes in so much money. We DO know the love of money is the root of all evil so how is it so ridiculous to suspect that information is not being published because there is too much money involved? We are not talking UFO's or little green men and it certainly would not be the first time corporations have witheld information because there is too much riding on it.

After all isn't the world at large currently suffering because greedy people have irresposibly polluted the world with emissions from their companies?

Go on call me a greenie. Sweet, sweet. May go and buy myself a pair of green pyjamas[:D]



iluvatar -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/23/2008 9:26:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

quote:

Because that's what the word anecdotal means.

-Dan.


Check the dictionary Dan, the word means "a short, interesting or amusing story" how is someone getting cancer a short, interesting or amusing story? Please tell I am waiting with abated breath.


From m-w.com:
quote:

"anecdotal 2: based on or consisting of reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"


From wikipedia.org:
quote:

The expression anecdotal evidence has two quite distinct meanings.

(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity: the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy or untrue.

(2) Evidence which may itself be true and verifiable is used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalising from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". In this case the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.

In both cases the conclusion is unreliable; it might happen not to be untrue, but it doesn't follow from the "evidence".


Anecdotal evidence refers to personal recollections as opposed to that collected from scientific observations and measurements.

FWIW, I get this sensation, too. But I don't believe it's from radiation. I've got a sensitive part of my body (my ear) pressed up against an electronic device (which could get hot) for a long period of time. What happens if you hold an ipod up to your ear for a half-hour?

-Dan.



IonMoon -> RE: Radiation from mobile phones (6/23/2008 12:14:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia
Are you for real? You really think I brought this up because I want a free earpiece? So what does that make me then in your eyes?


You (and I and every other cellphone user) would be the people who benefitted the least from packaging free earpieces. The people who would benefit would be the companies that make earpieces-- like the ones who fabricated the youtube videos that were posted.

Companies that will benefit from the fear of tumors are the very ones promoting the fear. They spread rumors, fake videos, etc. because they want people to buy their headsets out of fear even though there is no scientific evidence showing a link between tumors and cell phone use.

Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence. The fact that a particular person (or group of people) both use cell phones and have tumors means nothing. The fact that some people have ringing/tingling/etc when using their cell phone means nothing.

In order to show a danger, the rate of tumors has to be higher in those who use cellphones and those who don't (it isn't). The rate of tumors among those who use their cellphones excessively would have to be higher than groups who use them infrequently (it isn't). As someone else said, people who use headsets would be getting tumors in the hips, hands, etc. (they aren't).

There is published data on this. The published data shows no links.

Tara P



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