Calling Child Protective Services (Full Version)

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MyMasquerade -> Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 8:59:27 AM)

Let me start by saying I have never called CPS on anyone and really hate that I feel like I need to at this point on this family.

There is a family that recently moved across the street from us that I am concerned about the oldest son. They have three children 12, 7, and 4. The two youngest belong to the man she lives with now and he makes sure his children are taken care of.

The oldest son "W" has tonsils swollen to the size of golf balls. The mom told me he was supposed to have them removed before hurricane Katrina, that was almost three years ago. He hasn't been to the doctor since then. They can't use the excuse that they have no money because he has medicaid.

I had to take my daughter to the doctor last week and I took W with us, he wants him to see and ENT. So, his office made the appointment and I am supposed to take him today. Now the problem is that she doesn't want the husband (not sure that they are married) to know he is going to the doctor. I went over there yesterday to get him so he could spend the night because I have a doctors appointment this morning and it would have been easier for him to just spend the night. Then on top of that he was scared to go home yesterday because this man was there.

I know he physically abuses the mom, but I am not sure about the kids. I am going to talk to W today to see what he says. I take W to the country club pool with us just about every day and he will talk to me. I also know that the parents use recreational drugs. I know some people can be a functioning adult and still do that, so I am not judging them for this.

If she doesn't let me take him to the doctor because Hans can't know he is going, I really want to call CPS, I am just not sure that it is the right thing to do. When I took him to the dr last week they gave him an rx that she said we had to keep at my house so Hans would not see it. So, needless to say she hasn't made sure he got the medicine.

I really don't know what to do. That is such a major phone call to make and I want to know I am doing the right thing.



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 9:16:26 AM)

I *have* called Social Services before for children that I've known are at risk. But, from what you say, if I was in your shoes, I would likely not call at this stage.

At least at the moment the mum is letting you help her son. If you report her (and she will know it was you), it will destroy the bond you have (and prevent you helping the boy in future).

At the moment, they are where you can see them. If you hear or see anything that sounds like abuse, call the police. But otherwise, if I were you, I'd just keep a close eye on everything that went on, probably also keeping a diary of events and things I'd observed.

Calling CPS now could spoil everything, especially as you don't know how they'd handle it.

Right now you're a safe haven for this boy, and calling them could take that away from him.



pbaribeault -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 9:29:39 AM)

I can see why you are indecisive about this. There isn't one of those sensible answers that I like to give, so the only answer is to be sure of the Spirit's leading. If you are not sure, do whatever it takes to find yourself absolutely alone for at least 3 hours with your Bible and a notebook. It also might be wise to undertake a fast for maybe 2 or 3 meals before this 3 hour window.



Ellie-Mae -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 9:41:38 AM)

If it were me (at least the best that I can imagine), I would talk over what you know with the doctor (out of W's hearing) when you take W. Tell him that you are really concerned about this child's ability to receive proper medical treatment in his current situation. The doctor will probably ask W some questions , look him over a bit, and be able to determine if the CPS should be involved (I think that they should). If the CPS needs to be involved, the Doctor is required to call them.



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 10:00:01 AM)

When I am aware of a child at risk, the first thing I do is tell someone at their school. That way, if the school then reports it, it's not connected to me. But I guess your schools have all broken up for the summer now?



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 10:04:35 AM)

Do you know if W wants anything to be done about things? Last year I alerted Social Services about a 10yr old locally, but I also called her school. The school secretary called her in and asked how things were at home, and the little girl broke down and said she wanted to go into care. To me, that was the best result as it kept me out of it, and my relationship with the girl and her mum remained intact.



pbaribeault -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 10:19:05 AM)

Apparently Manda is very smart about these things! You're getting some good council based on her actual experiences.



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 11:15:38 AM)

pbaribeault,

One time I called the police direct (on the instruction of Social Services) when a girl was slightly injured and had told me that her mother (a heroin addict) was "out of it", and no-one was home.
The police handled it badly and actually told the mother's lodger (a teenage boy) who had reported this to them. I was unaware of this till that early that evening, when there was a loud knocking at my door. I opened it and the boy (a 17yr old) started yelling "Why did you report us to Social Services? The police said you called them" and shouting and swearing at me. I took a deep breath and told him in a loud voice that I wanted him to leave my property or I'd call the police. He left, and I called the police anyway, and reported the incident as well as making a complaint about the way the police had handled things. I got an apology from the police, and no further problems from the boy, but the girl never spoke to me again (well, not in a civil way anyway). That's why I'd always rather go the indirect route if at all possible.

The OP lives so close to this family that she could possibly be at risk if it is realised who called. I appreciate that a child is in trouble, but she needs to weight up the risks to her own home/family as well.



2shaye -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 11:39:27 AM)

Actually, you can call social services to just find out if you have a case to file a complaint. Just because you call doesn't mean a complaint will automatically be filed.

I agree that Manda gave you some great advice.



evryknee -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 12:10:14 PM)

Medical neglect is harder to prove than physical abuse. Bruises, cuts, etc. mean that CPS would probably do something, but without it, they'd come, ask questions and only if the answers from the child and other parent were obvious, or less than obvious for a good social service agent, would they act. You would really need mom as an ally. Document everything!! The mom is afraid of her hubby. You might want to call a battered woman's shelter, lawyer, or police officer anonymously and get some other options of helping mom.



MyMasquerade -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 12:53:53 PM)

Well she knew I was supposed to take him today at 1:00. She left with him. This makes me sick. The kids tonsils are the size of golf balls and I am not kidding. He can't sleep because of it.

He wanted to stay at my house last night to get away from Hans. I really don't know what to do . I am going to do as advised and call the local police department and see what they say.



MyMasquerade -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 12:56:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YZGUY

Medical neglect is harder to prove than physical abuse. Bruises, cuts, etc. mean that CPS would probably do something, but without it, they'd come, ask questions and only if the answers from the child and other parent were obvious, or less than obvious for a good social service agent, would they act. You would really need mom as an ally. Document everything!! The mom is afraid of her hubby. You might want to call a battered woman's shelter, lawyer, or police officer anonymously and get some other options of helping mom.



She won't leave him. She is scared of losing her drugs, she doesn't care about these kids. They are only more income from foodstamps and welfare.

She beat on my door at 4am the other day he had, had her in a corner all night tormenting her. I told her I would take her to my church they would help her. She would not leave. But she left her kids at the house with him.



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 12:57:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2shaye
Actually, you can call social services to just find out if you have a case to file a complaint. Just because you call doesn't mean a complaint will automatically be filed.



If it's the same as over here, they will, however, insist on taking all the details before giving an answer - and by the time you've done that, how they deal with it will be out of the informant's hands.



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 12:59:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyMasquerade

Well she knew I was supposed to take him today at 1:00. She left with him. This makes me sick. The kids tonsils are the size of golf balls and I am not kidding. He can't sleep because of it.

He wanted to stay at my house last night to get away from Hans. I really don't know what to do . I am going to do as advised and call the local police department and see what they say.




MyMasquerade

I suggest you don't do anything yet, but wait till next time the boy is with you, and ASK HIM if he'd like you to call anyone to help him. That way (if he says yes) he can be with you when you call, which will be much more powerful than you reporting something.



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 1:29:28 PM)

My concern here would be that if the Child Protection Services or Police don't handle this properly - supposing they go round to the house and there has been a report of child neglect/cruelty, and then, out of loyalty for his mother (which children in abusive situations often do) the boy stands up for his mother (because she is looking at him and looking upset) and then says it isn't true..........

What could well happen is that the CPS/police would leave, and then the boy might get interrogated about who he's been talking to, and then get beaten .............

That's why I think it's very important to plan how to do this, and take time, and not just rush in.



Pinksultana -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 2:25:43 PM)

Hi ya

I actually work as a social woker in CPS - granted im in the UK and have only otherwise worked in australia....but we are all quite similar in some ways...

at this stage I would suggest that you ring up CPS ask to speak to the duty worker, explain that you have concerns but wish to remain anonymous and that your not sure if this is a child protection matter or not and ask them what they think about the situation - you dont HAVE to log a notification but rather see what they say, they may say its already been repoted or t this stage it doesnt sound too concening or they may ask for the details to further investigate. Legally if you ask to be anonymous thy cannot reveal you or any info that may reveal who you are to the reprted family BUT in sayng that there are always those silly workers who do it accidentally...
I would personally have serious concerns for this boy given his mum is neglecting his medical needs, and it makes me wonder what other not so obvious neglect may be present in this boys life...how old is the boy?

cheers pink



Pinksultana -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 2:32:24 PM)

I understand what your saying too Manda - we dont want this child to be punished for social service involvements - I would suggest when reporting that your concerns would be around the boys welfare after social services have left if they were to investigate given their is physical punishments in the household and that the social workers need it to be made clear that the reports came from somewhere removed from the family and nothing to do with the boy speaking to anyone....
you would hope the social workers would approach this way anyways because its best practice principles and about reducing risks not creating more risks for the child...



Pinksultana -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 2:35:00 PM)

can I also say if there is common domestic violence within the home between parents ALL the children at this home are at risk of significant emotional harm from witnessing this violence also



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 2:43:01 PM)

PinkSultana

This is an immediate neighbour of the OP, so, really, remaining anonymous would IMO be meaningless, as it would be pretty obvious.

I don't know about the USA, but here in the UK you'd also be expected to give details before they'd give an opinion.



shadowspring -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 2:45:28 PM)

Calling all medical posters: are tonsils the size of golf balls a medical emergency?

I'm not a doctor or a nurse, but it seems to me that untreated infections like this can lead to sepsis and death. Is this true or not?

If it is true, call the doctor and tell him what's going on. He can be the mandatory reporter instead of you, as he a) is a true authority on how dangerous this current medical situation is or is not, and b) has no personal relationship at risk, like you do.

Would that work?



Pinksultana -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 3:03:26 PM)

manda

Im in the UK

and you can certainly in my experience ask for advice without giving details in the office I work....but I suppose it may differ in different offices ....

also I think the thing that needs to be recognised is that this boy is being neglected and that there needs to be a change in the way this family works in order for him to be safe from significant harm....even if that means the OPs relaionship with neighbours is compromised....it is not the OP responsibility to try and safeguard this child THAT is the job of CPS...IMHO given the repot of violence within the home and obvious medical neglect



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 3:10:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shadowspring
Calling all medical posters: are tonsils the size of golf balls a medical emergency?




I'm not medical, but my son's tonsils were regularly BIG when he was little, it was just one of those things. They settled down as he got older, but even when they are not inflamed they are still larger than most people's.



Brandy -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 3:29:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyMasquerade

Well she knew I was supposed to take him today at 1:00. She left with him. This makes me sick. The kids tonsils are the size of golf balls and I am not kidding. He can't sleep because of it.

He wanted to stay at my house last night to get away from Hans. I really don't know what to do . I am going to do as advised and call the local police department and see what they say.



This post right here concerns me.

He can't sleep due to being uncomfortable/sick. That's enough right there for me to want to do something.

Granted, no matter what you do, anonymous or otherwise, you are most likely going to be 'found out' by the mom and/or Hans.

If you call CPS they will know you did it, if you call the Dr they will know you did it. You can't win if you call but you can get him medical care hopefully.
And that may be all CPS needs to do, step in and see the medical problem and order care and follow through. They may not need to take him away as long as they don't see a probable reason to. Unfortunately from what you say has gone on, they most likely will have probable cause.

For me, I'd call CPS and not give specifics and ask what I could do.

I would also call the Dr's office, let them know why he didn't make his appt and leave a msg for Dr to call you and discuss what you can do to get him help.
Part of me is leary of a non parent trying to manage health care but this is a weird situation.

I've had tonsillitis a few times so bad I could not swallow and ended up in the hosp. Not fun. I cannot imagine going 3 years with problems and not being able to sleep AND being afraid of my mothers boyfriend and all the other 'stuff' this young man has to deal with.



lexie -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 3:38:40 PM)

quote:

The OP lives so close to this family that she could possibly be at risk if it is realised who called. I appreciate that a child is in trouble, but she needs to weight up the risks to her own home/family as well.


I really have to agree with Manda on this one. There was an incident here a few years ago where a well meaning neighbour called CPS on someone, and even though it was anonymous, the lady figured out it was her and physically attacked the woman.

I get that the boys well being is extremely important here, but everyone's safety is extremely important.

If you have a close relationship with the boy, talk to him. If he wants help, approach CPS through the school.



manda59 -> RE: Calling Child Protective Services (6/12/2008 3:55:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pinksultana
also I think the thing that needs to be recognised is that this boy is being neglected and that there needs to be a change in the way this family works in order for him to be safe from significant harm....even if that means the OPs relaionship with neighbours is compromised....it is not the OP responsibility to try and safeguard this child THAT is the job of CPS...




But it is her responsibility to protect her own daughter, who is just 10 years old. And her daughter could be at risk if she does not handle this wisely.



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