RE: Few going to heaven (Full Version)

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rcjames -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/9/2008 3:14:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hjemerson

WOW most of you made the plan of salv. sound so hard ,Thanks the Lord it is so easy, (no living a Christian will not be easy but with HIM it will be a wonderful Ending!) I guess it was just to deep for me I like to stick to the simple plan. I sure that will be commented on but I work with people who have not heard the Word much and that were I have to start and keep it slimple, Again I have not problem but why do we really care how many is in heaven, If we all do the things we should to share the Word to others as we are told and plant the seeds pray,live a christian life (before other etc as we are told) and then we just have to wait and see who will be in Heaven,


What is so hard about sinning (repenting of sin when one is saved) as God provides the way;

(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Or what is so hard about living the life of a Christian as instruced by Paul in;

(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Just repent and lay down trying to live in the flesh and live in the Spirit and there is no comdemnation for you;

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So God has promised us a way, offered us to have a renewing of the mind, and promises us that if we follow after the Spirit and not the flesh; there is no condemnation.

What is the world is so hard about that?


Thanks
RC



SonInMe1 -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/9/2008 9:09:19 PM)

Thank you Lord I am not like one of them.

I am a sinner saved by Grace.

Loosely translated of course but there is truth in this.

While holiness is our goal and with the Holy Spirit in us sin is hard to do, no doubt, we are called to be holy, seperate and pure, can any of us say we do not sin?

If we have to be perfect to be saved then the cross accomplished nothing. We are free in Christ. The law is now dead. That...is not an excuse to sin, in no way is it. However sin cannot seperate us from God as saved people.

As a saved person, when one sins they will be compelled by the Holy Spirit to repent. As a saved person when we tresspass against another we will ask for forgiveness and give forgiveness for those who tresspass against us. As a saved person we will be sanctified, grow toward the goal of being Christ like. We die to self everyday.

If only sinless christians go to heaven, then none would be saved. Those who proclaim Christ and are not saved aren't the sinners amungst the Elect, since we all sin. These are the ones who truly do not believe in Christ. They are the social christians. They have no fruit. They have unrepented sin.

While the bible says we may know someone by their fruit, it does not say we will judge the salvation of christians by their fruit. A christian will exhibit fruit, no question, but not all fruit is ripe. Not all fruits are apples. Some are oranges. In other words, if I am great at all the fruits, except I have little patience I do not lose my salvation. I am, like all of us, in need of sanctification and maturity.

Definitly, holiness and purity need to be preached and embraced by christians. I just...don't know any christian who is holy and pure. I would propose that if you know a holy and sinless christian...you don't know them very well.



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/9/2008 9:47:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

quote:

I am saying that not everyone who thinks they are Christian really are.


And here is where I'm gonna start my lil' rant on this subject!

When I look (or-read, whatever your preference) about what Jesus said about all those who say he is Lord won't go to Heaven, and plus what I have been told by those who know Scripture way better than I- teachers, Ministers, Priests- is this (and thus- what I truly believe);

Mostly it was to those who were following him- not because he was - "GOD", but mostly because he was giving a good show, and at times providing meals to them. Most of them could've cared less if he was really the Messiah, or not.

Much like some supposed - "Christians", of today; they give a great show to their fellow man to show that they are really, truly following the - "Way", yet they are just as lost as a Satanist!

There are people who have had heard the Word- yet, their only response is- yeah right, I dont fully believe/xcept it, yada, yada, yada.
Cookie-cutter Christianity- nuff said there?,
Then again, there are people who are- "Christian", in name only- and not much else;
they go to Church related functions, praise God in Church/Public,
Make sure peole see them tithe/give special tithes,
and so on and so forth- yet they are the bigget hypocrites walking!

They make sure they take their tithing/special gifts off their taxes,
They talk in a disparaging way about their relatives/nieghbor,
They could care less about helping a stranger,
Never, ever visited the sick, infirmed, prisoner, widow, etc.,
Don't care too much about traffic laws,
Feed the hungry,
And so on and so forth-

These are the peole, from what i have learned- are the ones Jesus is talking about in Matt 7, and eslewhere.


Speaking of numbers-
When one also looks at the origin of numbers- you will also discover that the word/number "Billion/Trillion/Million" - are fairly recent in history, as compared to the word/number; thousands, hundreds, etc. (gee- did some of ya's forget ur H.S. Math?, lol)

Mostly because in Jesus' time, there wasn't a concept for numbers in the millions-and up column.

First- what got me really intrested into this- "guestimation game" (bcause thats about all this really is, isn't it?), was my defeatest outlook, that somehow I wasn't good enough to go to Heaven attitude - even if I professed Jesus as God. And short story of it- after I started to play with the numbers, delved w/ an open mind about it, etc- I came out w/ a better outlook on the whole subject.

So, lets have some fun, shall we?

Lets say there will be a total of 12 Billion people on earth since Adam/Eve to the Final Tribulation; out of that number we can easily take off 6 billion who reject Christ as Son of God, in one way or another. Which- out of that 6 billion remaining, and applying the ratio I have learned/believe in, which is 2/5ths will go to Heaven- means that there will be about 2.4 BILLION people in Heaven, when it is all said and done. WHich, in the final analysis means- you and I, Have just as about as much of a chance of getting into heaven as the next person!

Howz that, for defeating a defeatest attitude?

-caio!


-charles


"They make sure they take their tithing/special gifts off their taxes,
They talk in a disparaging way about their relatives/nieghbor,
They could care less about helping a stranger,
Never, ever visited the sick, infirmed, prisoner, widow, etc.,
Don't care too much about traffic laws,
Feed the hungry,
And so on and so forth- "

That is a really bad way of looking at it because in those things which I just quoted most of them are titled as works. Now the Bible clearly states that the 2 greatest commandments are to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and also to love they neighbor as thy self. However, you can't get people thinking that they need to earn their way into Heaven. This mindset puts people in bondage and is all around negative. "Oh if I don't do these things I won't make it to Heaven!" This is so not true!

It's a free gift from God, and those things are not necessary. You should love people because that's how you are able to teach people about the Bible and get people born again, however, It's impossible to earn your way into Heaven. It's a gift that is so great it has to be given to you. God had to make it easy and a free gift or else no one would make it.



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/9/2008 9:53:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
I hope this clears things up for you!
God Bless!!


Are you saying that all it takes for a non-cancelable ticket to heaven is to say Jesus is Lord?

If not then what are you trying to say?

I am saying that not everyone who thinks they are Christian really are.

Thanks
RC


You have to believe it in your heart. The absolute millisecond you believe that Jesus Christ is your lord and savior and believe that he was raised from the dead you get born again. That's when you get your holy spirit. That is when you get born again and gain your incorruptible seed and inheritance. That is all it takes to make it to Heaven. Now there are rewards for remaining faithful and doing things in the Bible. I can teach you more about these rewards if you want, but some of them include the 5 crowns that believers will get if they stay faithful.

Once you get the holy spirit you are Heaven-bound. This is the way it is and it's the way it has to be according to the scripture in the Bible.



19ramman85 -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/9/2008 10:19:22 PM)

TheBibleTruth ............ could you clarify your response to my post, esp. this part- "They make sure they take their tithing/special gifts off their taxes,
They talk in a disparaging way about their relatives/nieghbor,
They could care less about helping a stranger,
Never, ever visited the sick, infirmed, prisoner, widow, etc.,
Don't care too much about traffic laws,
Feed the hungry,
And so on and so forth- "

That is a really bad way of looking at it because in those things which I just quoted most of them are titled as works.

Becuase, unless its just bcause I am tired, it sounds lilke you are taking what I said a bit out of context.

To refresh - I am NOT talking about those Christians who are actually doing these things for the Glory of the Lord, and - there is no Biblical reason why someone - CAN NOT take there tithing off their taxes.

I am only refering to those that do it for the - "show and tell", and or the -"What's in it for me", Christians.
As well as the - "Cookie-Cutter" Christians.


-charles



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/9/2008 10:20:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LinMarie27

quote:

Galatians 5:19-21
19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


I am a Christian, but things like this in the Bible seem like total contradictions. Isn't it true that people who commit all these acts can repent and become saved? This verse clearly says if you do such things you will not inherit the kingdom of God. So does that mean no exceptions?


The best way to interpret the Bible is to use the Bible to interpret itself. It seems confusing at first, but after you learn how it is really easy.

II Peter 1:20-21
20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

When there are verses that don't make sense to you the absolute worst thing you can do is try and figure out what it means on your own or using a book or reference other than the Bible. Now if that reference lists Bible verses and backs it up using information in the Bible then you are fine, but a lot of them are people who try to figure out the Bible based on what they think. Often times this can lead to very erroneous and false doctrine.

You must use the many, many, clear verses on the subject of the verse you are looking at to elucidate the confusing ones. The Bible cannot contradict itself because it's God's perfect word.

II Timothy 3:16
16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Now I forget the Greek words used in the first part of this verse but I can give you an alternate definition of the words "Is given by inspiration of God." That is "God breathed." Now if the entire word is God breathed by his perfect will, then the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation must line up according to the truth in his word. That is why there must not be any contradictions. If it doesn't make sense to you then you must go to God and ask for the truth. There are still many verses that do not make sense to me that I haven't been able to clear up, but it's a long walk with God. Eventually more and more of the Bible will become clear, but only after you learn to use the Bible to interpret itself. About 80% of the scripture is straight forward and it's meaning is easily ascertained from reading the scripture.

Proverbs 3:5-6
5) Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6) In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Very easy to understand.

Philippians 4:13
13) I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Also very easy to understand. You must use verses like this to interpret scripture that do not make sense to you. And always go to God and ask for answers and direction. He'll show you stuff!

Another topic that I touched on was that you must look at the scripture that is written directly to you. Since we live in the Grace administration you must focus on the scripture from Acts 2:4 (The day of Pentecost) to the book of Jude.

Romans 15:4
4) For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

The things written in the Old Testament and even during the time that Christ lived on Earth are not written directly to us and should only be used for our learning. There is a lot of great things in the Old Testament but in order to apply it too your lives you must make sure that it lines up with the things written to you from Acts to Jude. Like the verses I mentioned from Proverbs 3, those line up with the scripture written in the Grace administration. However, putting people under the Law of Moses is not something we should do. There is a whole book (Galatians) detailing the problems with putting people under the law. Therefore, you cannot live by the law but you can learn from it. These are only a few examples, but I believe they are clear enough.

In short, always always always always use the clear verses to make the more confusing ones more understandable. Don't try to figure it out on your own because we are not smart enough. God must show us the truth through his word!

God Bless!



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/9/2008 10:27:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

TheBibleTruth ............ could you clarify your response to my post, esp. this part- "They make sure they take their tithing/special gifts off their taxes,
They talk in a disparaging way about their relatives/nieghbor,
They could care less about helping a stranger,
Never, ever visited the sick, infirmed, prisoner, widow, etc.,
Don't care too much about traffic laws,
Feed the hungry,
And so on and so forth- "

That is a really bad way of looking at it because in those things which I just quoted most of them are titled as works.

Becuase, unless its just bcause I am tired, it sounds lilke you are taking what I said a bit out of context.

To refresh - I am NOT talking about those Christians who are actually doing these things for the Glory of the Lord, and - there is no Biblical reason why someone - CAN NOT take there tithing off their taxes.

I am only refering to those that do it for the - "show and tell", and or the -"What's in it for me", Christians.
As well as the - "Cookie-Cutter" Christians.

Ok, it makes more sense. Those people which strive for the acceptance of Man are not going down the right path. If you are doing those things to get people to notice how great a Christian you are and are full of yourself then you are wrong. All the great men in the Bible were meek and humble to God's word.

Romans 8:5-8
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Those people who strive for other people to see them as good Christians are not on The Word. They are carnally minded looking after the rewards of the here and now rather than the ones in Heaven. Your walk should always always always be between you and God, and should rarely (unless God instructs you to) be showcased to the public.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.



Ezra -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/10/2008 2:07:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

I continue to believe in the 80/20 rule...meaning 20% will get there and 80% will not. Think about it...20% of the people in you Church do 80% of the work and 20% of the congregation gives 80% of the tithing.

Bob


Assuming this is true, 20% of all human beings who have ever lived can still constitute a vast number whom no man can count.

However, I would be careful in applying this rule to spiritual matters, but it could still constitute "the few" against the many who will be lost.

This subject is not really one to be lightly or flippantly discussed. All Christians should be in great distress and much earnest prayer about this, since all are invited to freely partake of the Water of Life (see below).

Prayer can make a difference to these ratios, otherwise we would not be exhorted to pray for all men, since God will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.(1 Tim. 2:1-8).

Christ gave Himself as a ransom for ALL (1 Tim. 2:6), therefore all could be saved if all would believe and repent. This cannot be too strongly stressed, in view of the false teaching to the contrary, which seems to be gaining a greater and greater foothold among those who should know better.



rcjames -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/10/2008 9:15:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
Once you get the holy spirit you are Heaven-bound. This is the way it is and it's the way it has to be according to the scripture in the Bible.


J am not going to try to slide this thread into a debate about absolute eternal security.

The question seems to be; how many filks think they have the indwelling of the Spirit, but do not; as indicated by Matt. 7?

And I say 'Many" just like Christ said.about those who think they are saved but practice iniquity.

Thanks
RC



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/11/2008 5:30:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: whatislove

I saw this video on youtube called "Will you make it to heaven".


YouTube doesn't write the pages to the Lamb's book of life.



HisFish -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/11/2008 5:48:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrapeApe

quote:

ORIGINAL: whatislove

I saw this video on You Tube called "Will you make it to heaven".


You Tube doesn't write the pages to the Lamb's book of life.

You tube didnt make the video, and im sure it dosent even reflect their views, so i think they would agree with you.



Mannamuncher -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 9:54:56 AM)

Don't put the cart before the horse ! [:)]

First THE WAY must be found !


Matthew 7:14 (King James Version)
14Because strait is the gate,
and narrow is the way,
which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.


Jesus says to find the door first !

Furthermore, Jesus says FEW find it-



armydude -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 10:33:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher

Don't put the cart before the horse ! [:)]

First THE WAY must be found !


Matthew 7:14 (King James Version)
14Because strait is the gate,
and narrow is the way,
which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.


Jesus says to find the door first !

Furthermore, Jesus says FEW find it-
Yep. And I'll take His word for it. But don't forget "few" is a relative term. Was Jesus seeing the billions of people that would populate the planet and comparatively saying few or is there another explanation? I don't know. But He does.[;)]



Godddy -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 11:11:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

When describing Heaven Jesus said: In my Father's house there are many rooms.

So He probably expects many people there! Also, He will keep every denomination in a separate room to stop them arguing as to who "got it right".

He knows we mean well really - even though we waste a lot of time arguing about details.

I love your attitude, LOL



Godddy -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 11:22:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
Once you get the holy spirit you are Heaven-bound. This is the way it is and it's the way it has to be according to the scripture in the Bible.


J am not going to try to slide this thread into a debate about absolute eternal security.

The question seems to be; how many filks think they have the indwelling of the Spirit, but do not; as indicated by Matt. 7?

And I say 'Many" just like Christ said.about those who think they are saved but practice iniquity.

Thanks
RC

When we recieve Christ as Lord and Savior, We recieve the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.



McFatty -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 11:49:01 AM)

I don't like overcomplicating issues like this. The "few" are the believers. The "many" are the non-believers. It's pretty simple. There's no reason to use this verse as justification to question the salvation of professing Christians.



whisperingwaters -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 6:01:43 PM)

It is still a fact that many professing to be Christians are not and will not end up in heaven.



bzirk -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 6:32:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9

Just something to keep in mind. In the end, none of us know the number or percentage of those going to heaven. All we can do is continue in Christ and follow His word.


Amen.



atruefaith -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 9:10:45 PM)

quote:

I don't like overcomplicating issues like this. The "few" are the believers. The "many" are the non-believers. It's pretty simple. There's no reason to use this verse as justification to question the salvation of professing Christians.


I think the OP and others here would like to point out that not all professing Christians are what you would call "the believers."



bzirk -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 9:19:58 PM)

I'm not sure that is exactly what the op wanted. The request for thoughts and opinions was somewhat open ended.



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 9:27:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

Also, He will keep every denomination in a separate room to stop them arguing as to who "got it right".


Denominations will be non-existent.

Separation among a body of believers in an environment that declares perfection simply couldn't tolerate denominations.



bzirk -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 9:30:37 PM)

I thought mvic made a joke. Where's your sense of humor, grapeape? [;)]



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 9:54:27 PM)

Me? Sense of humor? Good one! [:D]



jennycnails -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/12/2008 10:21:55 PM)

I love Jesus with all my heart. I'm stuggling with addiction to pain pills. He tells me so strongly to throw them away or dont buy them and I do it anyway. I have so much faith in him and believe in him so much. Why do I keep doing this and will I make it to heaven if he came now? Please tell me what you think. I need your help and support.



19ramman85 -> RE: Few going to heaven (7/13/2008 12:26:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jennycnails

I love Jesus with all my heart. I'm stuggling with addiction to pain pills. He tells me so strongly to throw them away or dont buy them and I do it anyway. I have so much faith in him and believe in him so much. Why do I keep doing this and will I make it to heaven if he came now? Please tell me what you think. I need your help and support.



This is going to be blunt, but the truth!

You need to get yourself into a program!

I am somewhat in your shoes, as I am a 20 yr recovering borderline sever alcoholic.

Here is a shocker - God is not going to help you- if you do not help yourself! He is not going to zap you w/ his finger, and make you drug-free - he didn't do it for me, nor anyone else I can think of. You must make a serious committment to him, and more importantly - YOURSELF - before you will be successful in being drug free.

If you really believe God is w/ you - and you seemingly, profess faith in God - then get your rear into a rehab program- and prove to yourself, and God - that you can beat this demon of yours.

But whatever you do - do NOT go it alone!. You will only fail, and lose faith in yourself if you do!

And please don't wait - you may not have another day!


-charles



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