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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/12/2008 9:58:44 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Oh, gulp!
When I wrote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Yes, yes, yes, G-d cares! He cares deeply! If He did not, why did He have so much about clothing placed in the Bible? He cares deeply about the clothing of believers, what we do, what we say, what we eat, our relationships, and more -- which are all a part of something else He cares deeply about: our worship.
that was not saying that people should not go to their place of worship in any particular clothes, whether it's flip-flops, jeans, three-piece suits, or Lightshineon's "bling!" Good night, no! But what I intended was that G-d cares very deeply about what we believers quote:
do, what we say, what we eat, our relationships, and more at all times, not just when we are with the congregation! According to the Scriptures, He cares about every little thing in our lives! He is our caring, loving Father, but He is also Judge, Advocate, and Redeemer, bless His Name!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/12/2008 10:38:52 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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Once there was a poor man who came into a church. His clothes- a shirt, vest, and jeans- were clean but worn, as were his boots. The congregation were all dressed int their Sunday finest. No one smiled at him or offered him a seat, so he sat down in the very back. When people did look at him, it was with obvious disdain. After the service was over the man waited in line to shake hands with the pastor. The pastor pulled him aside and told him that his clothes were inappropriate for church. "Now you go home and talk with the Lord and see what He tells you is apprpriate to wear to this church."
The next Sunday the masn was back, still wearing his clean but worn clothes. The pastor, obviously perturbed, again pulled the man aside and said, "Didn't I tell you to ask the Lord what you ought to wear next time you came to church?"
"I did ask" said the man.
"Well, what did the Lord tell you to wear when you come inside this church?" the pastor asked.
The man replied, "He said He didn't know- He's never been here."
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/12/2008 10:44:59 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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That's great! I love it!
The pastor of the church where I work came in dressed very shabbily one time, based upon that story. It was part of his sermon.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/12/2008 10:48:24 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Once there was a poor man who came into a church. His clothes- a shirt, vest, and jeans- were clean but worn, as were his boots. The congregation were all dressed int their Sunday finest. No one smiled at him or offered him a seat, so he sat down in the very back. When people did look at him, it was with obvious disdain. After the service was over the man waited in line to shake hands with the pastor. The pastor pulled him aside and told him that his clothes were inappropriate for church. "Now you go home and talk with the Lord and see what He tells you is apprpriate to wear to this church."
The next Sunday the masn was back, still wearing his clean but worn clothes. The pastor, obviously perturbed, again pulled the man aside and said, "Didn't I tell you to ask the Lord what you ought to wear next time you came to church?"
"I did ask" said the man.
"Well, what did the Lord tell you to wear when you come inside this church?" the pastor asked.
The man replied, "He said He didn't know- He's never been here."
ROFLOL! I haven't heard that one before!
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 1:01:23 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1704
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Once there was a poor man who came into a church. His clothes- a shirt, vest, and jeans- were clean but worn, as were his boots. The congregation were all dressed int their Sunday finest. No one smiled at him or offered him a seat, so he sat down in the very back. When people did look at him, it was with obvious disdain. After the service was over the man waited in line to shake hands with the pastor. The pastor pulled him aside and told him that his clothes were inappropriate for church. "Now you go home and talk with the Lord and see what He tells you is apprpriate to wear to this church."
The next Sunday the masn was back, still wearing his clean but worn clothes. The pastor, obviously perturbed, again pulled the man aside and said, "Didn't I tell you to ask the Lord what you ought to wear next time you came to church?"
"I did ask" said the man.
"Well, what did the Lord tell you to wear when you come inside this church?" the pastor asked.
The man replied, "He said He didn't know- He's never been here."
ROFLOL! I haven't heard that one before!
Unfortunately, I've heard it before and was reminded again last Sunday. Several years ago, the dad of one of the men of our church finally attended after several years of requests by his son.. He was met at the door by an elderly woman who asked him to remove his hat. This man hardly takes his hat off for bed. The woman knew nothing about him, just saw the hat and asked him to remove it because, in her mind, it was an expectation. Is it scriptural or cultural?
Last week, one of the other deacons asked me to approach one of the kids serving in the sound/technology ministry to remove his hat.
I did speak to the lad and had a brief discussion with him about it. The discussion was only productive because we have been having an ongoing conversation about hats; shaped brims verses flat brims.
Again I ask. Is this a cultural thing or a scriptural thing. In the military I was taught that hats are to be off whwn indoors. I know this is the custom of older generations than mine. Who fault is it if that custom has not been passed from one generation to the next?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 1:37:56 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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You and I both know it's cultural, Zam. And culture has no standing before our Holy G-d.
There are those who can be very rude to the men who attend my congregation, because most wear kipot (yarmulkes or small hats that are reminders that no matter who you are, no matter what your position, there is always One Who is higher than you). They have been asked to removed their kipot, while in our culture, it is best for men to always wear kipot or some kind of hat no matter where they are.
There are so many cultures within the American culture that before we make demands of anyone, it is best to ask the questions. The one who asks may save themselves a lot of embarrassment.
Oh, yes. And writing of that, men have died on American soil for wearing turbans. A turban does not a taliban make.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 6:36:06 AM
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SonInMe1
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Some things are developed over time.
A scantily clad woman will eventually change her dress when convicted by the Holy Spirit.
Someone wearing a hat, in church, will, hopefully recognise, that no one else is and come to a conclusion. ( As far as I know wearing a hat indoors is rude )
I wish more people had manners. Not talking during the service etc. I am not sure going up to a visitor about these things are warrented. However someone who has attended long enough to have had some kind of fellowship with people there....should be talked to in a very loving fashion on some issues.
In my old church if you wore a hat an usher would ask you to take it off...if a woman came in dressed in an "advertising" way a lady usher would havd her a cloth...if you were talking during the sermon, an usher would say something to you and this was in a very charismatic church.
I am not sure all of that is...christian. Today no manners are taught and people do all kinds of things they probably should not do mainly through ignorance.
When was the last time you saw men get out of their seats when a lady entered the room...hold a door open for them...give them their coat...offer their seat to them...expect their children to be quiet...hear a yes sir or ma'am from a child...respect the dinner table ( no calls or visits during dinner ) or a simple please or thank you?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 7:07:59 AM
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car2ner
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I am glad that you brought up manners. The hat issue is a good example. It is common for men to leave hats on indoors now, but I ask them to remove them if we sit at a table together to eat because of this: it is usually a baseball cap and I can see their faces better for conversation if the hat is not on.
So to some extent, what we wear relates to manners.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 8:10:54 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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But again, ask the questions! That hat, no matter what it looks like to you, may be a religious symbol. Some of the men where I attend wear the kipot; some, especially younger men, wear baseball caps; some wear fedoras. To us, while some are religious about their kipot, the other hats are worn for the same purpose. To ask about the hat is good and it is polite; to demand the removal of any such hat because YOU think it is rude to wear it is ignorance and rude on the demander's part.
This is one of the complications for Jews who have come to recognize our Messiah. The churches, whether in ignorance or on purpose, make it impossible for them to come. They want, sometimes even demand, them to remove their hats, eat their pork, and stop observing Sabbath in order to demonstrate what the churches see as some sort of freedom. For us, these things are not freedom; they are bondage.
Please, please, please ask the questions before you attempt your demands!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 8:20:42 AM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
some wear fedoras
Men wearing fedoras? Now that is a new one for me.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 8:31:11 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Seriously, or are you kidding me?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 9:38:49 AM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Seriously, or are you kidding me?
Oh, I just did a google search, A Fedora is a hat, and here I was thinking it was more like a feather like thing that women wore instead, nevermind! 
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 9:43:12 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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No problem. Fedora is a rarely-used word these days.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 9:47:32 AM
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humbleinspirit
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I think that the term in general is more associated with women these days too.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 10:13:46 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Really? Maybe I had better google it!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 10:41:37 AM
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Roberta_
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I thought that the hat issue went back to the Bible regarding head coverings. That's why women leave them on and men take them off.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 12:50:37 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Maybe it did have its origins with a misunderstanding of that Scripture. I don't know, Denim.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 4:31:25 PM
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beachcooky
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I don't know what the Bible says about what we should wear to church.
But I believe that you're there to praise God.
I mean, when you spend time with God one on one, do you dress up? I don't.
And in that case, why would we have to dress up to go to church when you just want to spend some one on one with God at church? I mean, we aren't supposed to go to church and impress people. We're there to impress God. For me? I wear hoodies and jeans. Cos that's what I wear on a normal day to day basis. And I don't think God cares about how we should dress in church. JUST DRESS MODESTLY!
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/13/2008 4:56:10 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1704
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quote:
SonInMe1
Some things are developed over time.
A scantily clad woman will eventually change her dress when convicted by the Holy Spirit.
Someone wearing a hat, in church, will, hopefully recognise, that no one else is and come to a conclusion. ( As far as I know wearing a hat indoors is rude )
I wish more people had manners. Not talking during the service etc. I am not sure going up to a visitor about these things are warrented. However someone who has attended long enough to have had some kind of fellowship with people there....should be talked to in a very loving fashion on some issues.
In my old church if you wore a hat an usher would ask you to take it off...if a woman came in dressed in an "advertising" way a lady usher would havd her a cloth...if you were talking during the sermon, an usher would say something to you and this was in a very charismatic church.
I am not sure all of that is...christian. Today no manners are taught and people do all kinds of things they probably should not do mainly through ignorance.
When was the last time you saw men get out of their seats when a lady entered the room...hold a door open for them...give them their coat...offer their seat to them...expect their children to be quiet...hear a yes sir or ma'am from a child...respect the dinner table ( no calls or visits during dinner ) or a simple please or thank you?
While I agree that manners are important and need to be taught. Why is it we get all wrapped around the axle about what we percieve to be poor manners and then go on lamenting about how the current generation has no manners. To me it seems like another means of shifting blame. Who has the responsibility of teaching manners to the following generation?
As I was growing up, I was not taught that it was rude to wear a hat indoors. It was not until I joined the military that I learned covers come off when one enters a building. I still often forget to take my baseball cap off indoors when I go places. The same elderly woman that chased my friends dad away from church by asking him to take off his hat approached me several years before and asked me to remove my hat. I was there for an AWANA event with the kids. She came up and politely asked me to please remove my hat. I did so and took no offense as I had a relationship with this particular woman and understood where she was coming from.
It seems more rude to me to ask someone you know nothing about to remove a hat. Seems like things like this show we are more focused on self than others. Seem like a way of saying I have this expectation and you're not meeting it. Why not take the time to get to know the person, find out what/who is underneath the hat before imposing our own expectations on them..
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 5:40:39 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
It seems more rude to me to ask someone you know nothing about to remove a hat.
It depends who does it. Like you said if you have a relationship with someone its easier. Also an authority figure, such as the pastor or even an usher, can make such suggestions, hopefully politely to someone they do not know well.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 5:47:11 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
It depends who does it. Like you said if you have a relationship with someone its easier. Also an authority figure, such as the pastor or even an usher, can make such suggestions, hopefully politely to someone they do not know well.
But who/what is this asking for? is it for your comfort? Is it to meet expectations you have? Is it scriptural?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 5:56:24 AM
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SonInMe1
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I don't know the beginnings of it...probably hundreds or thousands of years ago people were asked to take off their hats when meeting together so not to hide weapons...? I don't know.
All I do know is it is poor manners to wear a hat inside. I don't think its a sin.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 6:14:37 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
All I do know is it is poor manners to wear a hat inside. I don't think its a sin.
So how do we correct the issue? If we want to change the culture, how do we exert influence?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 8:15:39 AM
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car2ner
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Manners go both ways. IMHO it is all right to ASK politely to have someone remove their hat, for example. But, Abiyah brings up a good point. They may have a legitimate reason for keeping their head covering on.
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http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 12:39:32 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
Manners go both ways. IMHO it is all right to ASK politely to have someone remove their hat, for example. But, Abiyah brings up a good point. They may have a legitimate reason for keeping their head covering on.
I remember these particular verses:
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
-1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Still, it may be cultural. I do know that if I had come to the table with a hat on, my parents or grandparents would have, at the very least, told me to remove it. It still rankles me to see an adult male, especially over 50, sitting at a table or entering church with a hat on. However, I wouldn't say anything in either case.
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