Form Correction Etiquette (Full Version)

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HisLamb26 -> Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 3:08:33 PM)

Ok.....
So I'm at the gym yesterday. I see a guy, looks to be in his 50s, get in the squat rack and squat with 70lbs using the worst form I have EVER seen. I was debating whether or not to point out if he keeps squatting like that he is going to blow his knees out...but figured his male ego may not appreciate that coming from a female.

THEN...to make it worse...another older fellow goes up to him, looks at the weights he has racked up and says "70lbs...Good job!" [8D]. This same guy then proceeds to get into the Squat Rack BACKWARDS and do a couple of weak squats...[8|]

This is hardly the first time I've seen horrendous form and wanted to correct it. So what's the etiquette on that one at your gym? Should gender make a difference here? (we know it SHOULDN'T...but let's face it...some men may not take kindly to a woman pointing out their weight lifting form errors.)

Me? I would hope another lifter of either gender would point out a form problem to me so I could correct it.



Miss Giggles -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 3:15:50 PM)

Well, I never say anything to people at my gym, but I am sure that if I did the advice wouldn't be followed. People tend to think their workout routine is the best way of doing things, like the people that run 2 minutes on high speed and that's their entire workout.

Ideally the trainers should advise them.



Konstantinos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 5:24:50 PM)

i never thought of gender having to do with telling people about form.

most of the people that squat at my gym do it wrong. funnily enough those ones are the weaker smaller ones.

though really as long as you are making full squats and your feet are wide enough apart(the angle doesnt matter provided its not over 70 degrees or something and its not in the -(minues)degrees) and you dont use crazy heavy weights you wont blow out a knee. most of the time its hard on the knees becuase its muscles/joints arent strengthened for most people.

but really, very narrow stance and half... or even full squats can kill your knees. especially if you fall on your toes

i forgot to say, i rarely advise people on their form. if they ask me ill tell them. if they look at me but are shy to ask ill start by giving them a tip and if they continue talking ill tell them more.



csl7037 -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 6:56:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisLamb26
Me? I would hope another lifter of either gender would point out a form problem to me so I could correct it.


No you don't. Truthfully, if someone you don't know corrected your form, you'd assume they don't know what they're talking about - and you'd probably be right!!! That guy would've assumed you were wrong especially because you're a girl and guys would definitely balk at that - 99% of them. But also because he doesn't know you and most people in the gym don't have a clue what they're doing, IMO. If there was a ginormous bodybuilder type (who would have "credibility" with that guy) nearby, it would be nice for that person to offer constructive criticisim. I think it would also be a staff person's responsibility to step in if they saw bad form. But I think you'd have been wasting your breath.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
i rarely advise people on their form. if they ask me ill tell them. if they look at me but are shy to ask ill start by giving them a tip and if they continue talking ill tell them more.


This is the best policy, IMO.



Konstantinos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 7:23:13 PM)

quote:

I think it would also be a staff person's responsibility to step in if they saw bad form


most trainers are awful. they are even worse than most people at the gym, because they know 2 things more than them but get paid for it.

one time this trainer told me to do squats just as i explained them above wrong: narrow stance, feet pointing forward which is pretty hard for a newbie with not enough flexibility and knee/quad strength, and to do quarter squats

basically to do nothing but destroy my knees and waste my time in the gym



csl7037 -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 8:18:22 PM)

This is terrible but my friend has been going to my gym for a while and just recently started working in the "kid room". Apparently, now they need her on the floor and yesterday she was following the owner and director around as they worked with new clients learning how to show new people the machines - the machines she never uses! I haven't had a chance to talk to her; I doubt it was her idea at all. But it seemed pretty silly to me.



Konstantinos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 8:30:06 PM)

how to use machines....

i guess you kinda need to be shown a little bit at the start but anyway

im just glad not all trainers are like this dude(whose legs were smaller than my arms btw). i just am too much against "fitness centers". the mood there is just a tad step higher than a beauty center which is basically a waste of money



csl7037 -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 9:16:45 PM)

The "fitness center" type facility definitely has it's limitations. And, I guess, very few women (especially) ever get past those limitations. On the other hand, it has it's benefits - it's how I got started, it's how I've made some of my best friends, and I've grown and learned on my own from there. Very few people do that, however. But, even those people, maybe are better off at least there doing something where they'd never last at a more serious gym. At least it's something. But, at the same time, as a group fitness instructor, I do really get frustrated by what is taught in a group fitness setting. I hate to be part of something that really is playing to myths, stereotypes, and wasting people's time too often. And a big pet peeve of mine is group instructors (or even personal trainers) who obviously either don't have a clue what to really do and/or are just too lazy to do it. "Do as I say, not as I do" I do know that it's hard to teach several classes/week and squeeze in your own workouts. But I'm so irritated when I walk into a class with a chubby instructor! I think on a professional level, it bothers me. It's like going Cousin It as a hairdresser!



Konstantinos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 9:31:48 PM)

well idk who cousin it is but i agree.

i just hate the fact that the world is becoming more and more... wussy like. in all my life whenever i had to do something i was forced(partly because of high expectations from my parents) to be at a high level. you cant wussy yourself into a high level. you cant get the first certificate in english in 6th grade in elementary school when most people get it in 3rd of jr high school or 1st of high school. you cant pass the math olympiads(well i only passed the first part). you cant get in college entrance exams 89% average and get in the best college for computers in greece(nevermind that i hate it right now hahaha). you cant be a wussy at a decent job where your boss will have higher expectations than.. cleaning the dishes. you cant in a sport, you cant in whatever.

i remember watching some movie lately, which i didnt really like all that much.. i like very few movies... but it said that in life you can either be successful or you can have friends. and it just makes sense that the way the world is today its like that. the level of fear has increased so much in people that whenever someone succeeds and isnt afraid they are so jealous of him they unfriend him. back years ago whenever someone succeeded a lot, people would help him, congratulate him and admire him.

since i was born in the 80s, from movies and such i had the idea that when i would go to the gym it'd be full of weights being thrown around and big dudes. very soon i discovered something far, far different. and all of it being done for the money.(im 99% sure the reason they give horrible programs and advice is so that people have progress, but minimal, so they stay at the gym for a longer time, but at the same time the trainers can tell them they are making amazing progress.. whereas they dont, but they dont know that) another problem is, if you've read some in tnation, that some people that go to the gym but dont really have a good plan may lose weight when trying to gain, or lose strength when trying to gain, gain fat when trying to lose, etc etc. so just going cant be always good. its a stress on the body. its in fact BAD for the body, its the recovery thats good. if you have a ****py recovery then its bad. also if your program isnt even half decent, you might as well just walk.. thats more fun. take a walk aroudn the town. if there is no intesity with weights then you are doing nothing



HisLamb26 -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/13/2008 10:28:38 PM)

His form was REALLY bad-as Kostantinos described with the very legs close together-on the descent knees flying WAY out past his toes. At his age this guy was just begging for a trip to the ER.....I winced watching him.

While it's true I wouldn't be too quick to take the advice of someone I didn't know-(I have spent much time learning about proper form-I'm no spring chicken and didn't want to get hurt.) I would pay mind if the person giving the advice looked like they've been lifting for a while. Not necessarily a huge BBuilder mind you-but it's usually pretty obvious to me when someone knows what they are doing.

One time I saw a "weight lifting granny" and watching her was liking watching a fancy ballet. She had to have been in her 60's. She wasn't "ripped"...but she was wearing workout clothes and had a pretty good cut and obvious muscle! She was doing lunges using a boosu ball, and her form was perfect. It was a work of art I tell ya! First time I saw her and I could tell by her build and form (and comfort with free weights) that here was a woman who has been lifting for a while. Her I would have paid attention to if she suggested a form correction to me.

So while I get people just not knowing "what to do". or not bothering to learn proper form-at some point I almost feel a moral obligation to point out something that is potentially dangerous; like this guy squatting was. It is obvious to me when someone has been weight training for a while-even if I have never seen them before.



csl7037 -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/14/2008 7:30:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
and all of it being done for the money.(im 99% sure the reason they give horrible programs and advice is so that people have progress, but minimal, so they stay at the gym for a longer time, but at the same time the trainers can tell them they are making amazing progress.. whereas they dont, but they dont know that)


It's a consumer-focused industry. They also teach and practice and perpetuate the fluff-programs because that's what people want. If they really told them the truth, gave them the real steps necessary to make some real changes - they'd have no clients! The market for that kind of truth is pretty small. Even the gyms that offer what you really need have to offer the fluff to stay in business. Then my dh is going to "Mr. Florida" and getting the nuts-and-bolts program and he's doing it and it's working. But even with him, dh just wants to be told what to do. He keeps telling me to go see him. I don't want to be told, eat this at 8:00, eat this at 11:00, etc. I want to know what to do and why! If it takes me a little longer to research it and learn what works, in the long run, I'm in a better place. Very few people are actually going to do that.



agapetos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/15/2008 8:53:38 AM)

quote:

most trainers are awful. they are even worse than most people at the gym, because they know 2 things more than them but get paid for it
I've had 3 personal trainers and they've been brilliant. They've taken care to instruct me properly on how to use each piece of equipment and checked that I'm using it correctly when I've had reviews.

quote:

This is hardly the first time I've seen horrendous form and wanted to correct it. So what's the etiquette on that one at your gym? Should gender make a difference here? (we know it SHOULDN'T...but let's face it...some men may not take kindly to a woman pointing out their weight lifting form errors.)
I guess your response depends on the kind of gym you go to. Personally, I'd be speaking (or writing) with a member of staff in the gym about them ~ I'd have assumed they'd be interested as it's them that are liable should accidents occur.



Konstantinos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/15/2008 11:01:01 AM)

quote:

They've taken care to instruct me properly on how to use each piece of equipment and checked that I'm using it correctly when I've had reviews.


the trainers in the old gym i used to go did the same thing. and gave me lame support boosts.

but really, how hard is it to learn the machines? its kinda.. obvious.



Roberta_ -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/15/2008 4:50:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:

This is hardly the first time I've seen horrendous form and wanted to correct it. So what's the etiquette on that one at your gym? Should gender make a difference here? (we know it SHOULDN'T...but let's face it...some men may not take kindly to a woman pointing out their weight lifting form errors.)
I guess your response depends on the kind of gym you go to. Personally, I'd be speaking (or writing) with a member of staff in the gym about them ~ I'd have assumed they'd be interested as it's them that are liable should accidents occur.


That's what I was thinking!



NoShow -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/16/2008 10:19:40 AM)

My experience is that it's best not to say anything, unsolicited, if I’m not already on “friendly” (someone I greet\acknowledge when I see them, even if I really don’t talk to them) terms with the person. And even if I am on friendly terms, it would still depend on the individual, whether or not I would say anything.

I’ve been lifting since I was 14 and am now 49. My “form” is pretty darn good. I actually get approached with questions, way more often than I care for. The older crowd seems more comfortable approaching me, because I’m “old”. The younger ones seem to be drawn by the fact that I’m moving very respectable weight for my size (and probably my age). But I’ve learned over the decades, that often what’s fine for one, isn’t always fine for another.

I’ve seen people use what looks like terrible form. Later I find out that, due to specific conditions they have (often, “hidden” things); their form is the only way that works for them at that time. Squat form is often horrendous due to one or more factors. The person may not have the strength, coordination and\or flexibility to do them correctly, even if they were told and shown the correct form. It’s a good thing the person was only using 70 pounds.

Also, depending on the persons background, they may be using what they believe is ideal form. Sticking to Squats, someone coming from a powerlifting background, is going to have form that differs from the typical fitness magazine Squat form; because they’ve learned a form that allows them to use the most weight possible and to take advantage of the lifting gear (suits, wraps, belt). Someone coming from a bodybuilding background, is going to use a form that allows them to work the most “muscle fibers” possible. Someone coming from an Olympic\weightlifting background, is going to have back Squat form that more mimics Front Squatting (i.e. you’ll see what may look like excessive forward movement of the knees over\past the toes). Whether any of these forms are “wrong”, whose to say? Definitely, not me, so I don’t.



Konstantinos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/16/2008 2:07:10 PM)

true but most people just dont know any form at all other than the one that kills their knees. any of the above 3:powerlifting, bodybuilding or olympic forms of squat are far better and far safer, with probably the bodybuilding one being the safest.



HisLamb26 -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/24/2008 6:54:52 AM)

I want to thank everyone for their replies. Interesting that most folks lean to minding your own business. I agree mostly-I just hate to see folks get hurt. and personally-I would welcome form correction if it came from someone who obviously knew what they were doing.

I think the best suggestion is to mention it to a staff member, and let them handle it.



csl7037 -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/24/2008 7:05:18 AM)

I was on the bike last night at my little gym. The floor for classes is right in front of the bikes. So I was really just watching the class. The instructor is really good. At one point, though, I heard her say about three times to check that the knee was not over the ankle (doing lunges); there was one lady just asking for a blowout! Short of going right to her and saying "don't do that", I don't know what else the instructor could've done. Some people just have no body-awareness.



agapetos -> RE: Form Correction Etiquette (6/24/2008 12:55:24 PM)

quote:

Short of going right to her and saying "don't do that", I don't know what else the instructor could've done.
It's something that she should have done (IMO) if she could see the lady as she was the instructor. I've known several instructors to do that with people. Actually, I had one instructor who had a large class (all 'regulars') and decided to break down the exercises over a few weeks and go round to make sure we were all doing things properly.



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