Christian or Paulists??

Christian or Paulists?? (Full Version)

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Fortydays -> Christian or Paulists?? (6/14/2008 9:33:02 PM)
My question has to do with us Christians that don't follow the same Mosaic Law that Jesus said he came to fulfill. Jesus did in fact follow them as far as anyone can see. And he attested to the necessity of following them. OR did he do away with some of the old laws? My other question IS....why did the Early Christians follow the teachings of Paul rather than more of the teachings of Jesus. Paul is who actively sought the Gentiles and who preached the abrogation of Jewish Law. Not as much of Jesus or am I wrong. SO.... I ask....are us modern Christians---more Christian? Or more Paulists? And was their an anti-Jewish agenda amongst the Early Christians? I feel I am a Christian, but some people have called me a Paulist. Please help me with this. I have spent some time in Google, but not as helpful as I thought.

Fortydays -> RE: Christian or Paulists?? (6/14/2008 9:45:10 PM)
IF you have a opinion...please take your time. I realy am confused with this. I totally believe Jesus died for my sin and I totally believe Paul was used by God. But some things are in question.

bsjones84 -> RE: Christian or Paulists?? (6/14/2008 10:18:33 PM)
Fortydays, you are correct in noticing the different teachings concerning the Law of Moses. There is a very specific reason for this though. Jesus came to fulfill the law. The reason He did this is because the law required a sacrifice, and Jesus came to be that sacrifice. So He literally came to fulfill the law. However, before Jesus was crucified, the law was yet unfulfilled. Therefore, the Jews, even Jesus, lived under the Law of Moses. Therefore, Jesus taught according to the Law of Moses as one having authority. Fastforward to the crucifixion. When Jesus died, He cried with a loud voice. He said, "It is finished," and died. The reason He said it was finished is because He finished His work on earth, which was to atone for our sins and fulfill the Law of Moses. At that point, we were no longer under the Law of Moses, but under what Paul called the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ (Romans). At this point the earth shook and the veil of the temple was torn. The veil separated the congregation from the Holiest of Holies, the inner part of the temple where God dwelled. Only the high priest could go into the veil and be in the very presence of God. The high priest was the mediator and the common people were shut off from God. Well, Jesus being our High Priest, went into the Holiest of Holies and offered Himself a sacrifice and bridged that gap. Now we have access by faith through Jesus Christ. There was no longer a separation between the common people the God that required a need for a high priest to be our mediator. Our High Priest is now Jesus and He sits at God's right hand making intercession for us. The when the veil was torn, it was symbolic of God having come down to man (the veil was torn from top to bottom, not bottom to top) and making a way for us to have direct access to Him. Our direct access is through Jesus Christ through faith in His work on the cross. So, that said, the Law of Moses has been fulfilled. We are no longer subject to the law's requirements of washings, ceremonies, feasts, and sacrifices. When Jesus died, He fulfilled them all once and for all. He is our perpetual sacrifice. We only need to have complete, unfeigned faith that what Jesus did on the cross truly did fulfill the law and atone for our wretchedness and bring us back into an honorable standing of sinless perfection before God. (Not because we are perfect, but because we are baptized into Christ's death when we repent and receive Christ; therefore, in God's eyes we died with Christ on the cross.) So yes, Jesus taught the law because they were yet under the law. Paul taught that we do not need to keep the law because we were no longer under the law and the law was fulfilled by Jesus, bringing us under a new law, or covenant, the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. This law we keep by having faith in God's grace to forgive us of our sins through Jesus' death on the cross. Consider another thing. God gave Abraham a promise. Abraham believed God. This belief in God was accounted as righteousness for Abraham. Abraham did nothing but believe what God promised Him, and God said that was enough for Abraham to be righteous. Well, Abraham lived long before the law was ever given. So if Abraham was accounted righteous by faith in God before the law ever was given, how much more will we be counted righteous by having faith in God after the law has been fulfilled. This is taught in the book of Romans. Paul taught, in detail, how we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ and that the works of the law have no part of salvation. Everything I've said comes mostly from the book of Romans. So to answer your question, we are Christians. If we follow the doctrine Paul taught, we are Christians because Paul taught what he received from Christ. Hope this helps ya. God bless, Bub

Fortydays -> RE: Christian or Paulists?? (6/14/2008 11:06:02 PM)
I am so glad you posted that for me. I am freed from my questions on this now. I totally trust that.

AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: Christian or Paulists?? (6/14/2008 11:41:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bsjones84 Fortydays, you are correct in noticing the different teachings concerning the Law of Moses. There is a very specific reason for this though. Jesus came to fulfill the law. The reason He did this is because the law required a sacrifice, and Jesus came to be that sacrifice. So He literally came to fulfill the law. However, before Jesus was crucified, the law was yet unfulfilled. Therefore, the Jews, even Jesus, lived under the Law of Moses. Therefore, Jesus taught according to the Law of Moses as one having authority. Fastforward to the crucifixion. When Jesus died, He cried with a loud voice. He said, "It is finished," and died. The reason He said it was finished is because He finished His work on earth, which was to atone for our sins and fulfill the Law of Moses. At that point, we were no longer under the Law of Moses, but under what Paul called the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ (Romans). At this point the earth shook and the veil of the temple was torn. The veil separated the congregation from the Holiest of Holies, the inner part of the temple where God dwelled. Only the high priest could go into the veil and be in the very presence of God. The high priest was the mediator and the common people were shut off from God. Well, Jesus being our High Priest, went into the Holiest of Holies and offered Himself a sacrifice and bridged that gap. Now we have access by faith through Jesus Christ. There was no longer a separation between the common people the God that required a need for a high priest to be our mediator. Our High Priest is now Jesus and He sits at God's right hand making intercession for us. The when the veil was torn, it was symbolic of God having come down to man (the veil was torn from top to bottom, not bottom to top) and making a way for us to have direct access to Him. Our direct access is through Jesus Christ through faith in His work on the cross. So, that said, the Law of Moses has been fulfilled. We are no longer subject to the law's requirements of washings, ceremonies, feasts, and sacrifices. When Jesus died, He fulfilled them all once and for all. He is our perpetual sacrifice. We only need to have complete, unfeigned faith that what Jesus did on the cross truly did fulfill the law and atone for our wretchedness and bring us back into an honorable standing of sinless perfection before God. (Not because we are perfect, but because we are baptized into Christ's death when we repent and receive Christ; therefore, in God's eyes we died with Christ on the cross.) So yes, Jesus taught the law because they were yet under the law. Paul taught that we do not need to keep the law because we were no longer under the law and the law was fulfilled by Jesus, bringing us under a new law, or covenant, the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. This law we keep by having faith in God's grace to forgive us of our sins through Jesus' death on the cross. Consider another thing. God gave Abraham a promise. Abraham believed God. This belief in God was accounted as righteousness for Abraham. Abraham did nothing but believe what God promised Him, and God said that was enough for Abraham to be righteous. Well, Abraham lived long before the law was ever given. So if Abraham was accounted righteous by faith in God before the law ever was given, how much more will we be counted righteous by having faith in God after the law has been fulfilled. This is taught in the book of Romans. Paul taught, in detail, how we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ and that the works of the law have no part of salvation. Everything I've said comes mostly from the book of Romans. So to answer your question, we are Christians. If we follow the doctrine Paul taught, we are Christians because Paul taught what he received from Christ. Hope this helps ya. God bless, Bub WOW, Great job, I don't think anyone could put it any better [:D]

LCannon -> RE: Christian or Paulists?? (6/15/2008 12:02:51 AM)
1 Corinthians 1:5-"...I give thanks to God always for you because of the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, 5 that in every way you were enriched in him with all speech and all knowledge— 6 even as the testimony to Christ was confirmed among you...12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas(Peter),” or “I belong to Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul(or Peter or Apollos)crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" Obvisously not for our salvation(and the world seen and unseen)is of Christ alone.

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Christian or Paulists?? (6/15/2008 12:10:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fortydays My question has to do with us Christians that don't follow the same Mosaic Law that Jesus said he came to fulfill. Jesus did in fact follow them as far as anyone can see. And he attested to the necessity of following them. OR did he do away with some of the old laws? My other question IS....why did the Early Christians follow the teachings of Paul rather than more of the teachings of Jesus. Paul is who actively sought the Gentiles and who preached the abrogation of Jewish Law. Not as much of Jesus or am I wrong. SO.... I ask....are us modern Christians---more Christian? Or more Paulists? And was their an anti-Jewish agenda amongst the Early Christians? I feel I am a Christian, but some people have called me a Paulist. Please help me with this. I have spent some time in Google, but not as helpful as I thought. Since you asked -- Don't be so easily influenced or trusting in what people say. Don't let those who call you by their code-names erode your beliefs or trust, and don't let those with pat answers impress you. Get a good biblical word-book and look up the word fulfill. Some people think that it always means to bring something to an end, but it does not. It (pleroo) means to complete, to do something to the fullest, to be full of the activity, to do it all the way. Read Matthew 5:17ff (I think). Not even one of the tiniest marks of the Torah will be done away until heaven and earth pass away. Have they done that yet? And regarding Paul, he continued in Torah. He reprimanded Peter for his failure. He still went to the Temple and or synagogue on Sabbath. He still fulfilled the commands regarding the nazerite, He said he was a Pharisee of Pharisees, but all he could do could not save him; he still had to depend upon the grace of G-d to save him, just as people have had to from the beginning. So what’s wrong with Paul? Did he somehow fail the L-rd? I think not! In Acts, you can read about the accusation that Paul no longer followed Torah. Paul and the other leaders were pretty perplexed about that accusation, yet it continues today. Because of that false accusation, Paul, with the blessing of the elders, publically did what he had to do, to prove he still followed Torah. Have you read that?

Kath -> RE: Christian or Paulists?? (6/15/2008 2:48:34 PM)
In an attempt to consolidate for the purpose of effective moderation of this topic, we have created a One Stop thread for the topic of The Law. Therefore, this thread is closed. Please join us in the discussion linked below. Keep the Law? Click Here Sincerely Kath Volunteer Assistant Administrator Please do not reply to this message within the Community. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please allow time for a response. Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.

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