RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (Full Version)

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armydude -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 3:36:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude
I don't see that. Could you show me a scripture that backs this up?


Armydude

How about some Scriptures that speak to us knowing folks in heaven, or having knowledge of earthly things while in heaven.
Interesting. I never expected you to get defensive. I just asked for some scripture. If you don't have scripture to back up your claim, just say so please.



JimboFletch -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 3:48:32 PM)

Something Jesus revealed is that relationships we have on earth will be dissolved in heaven. We will no longer think in terms of blood relatives and spouses and friends. We will no longer see through a glass darkly. We will see as God sees - we will understand that those cast into the lake of fire have walked over the blood of Jesus as if it and He were worthless and have rejected the marvelous Grace. We will no longer consider His enemies as friends and loved ones, but as individuals that rejected the Giver and his Gift of life eternal.



Kat_D -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 3:53:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude
I don't see that. Could you show me a scripture that backs this up?


Armydude

How about some Scriptures that speak to us knowing folks in heaven, or having knowledge of earthly things while in heaven.
Interesting. I never expected you to get defensive. I just asked for some scripture. If you don't have scripture to back up your claim, just say so please.


I didn't think RC got defensive in the least. If you look at the entire context of his post, he didn't...but of course, in a selective/partial quoting situation, we can make someone appear defensive.

It's sad though, because people always ask for Scripture to prove a point, but 9 times out of 10 when it is given, it is ignored or dismissed.[8|]

But, again, the Scripture in my post pretty much guarantees that you will have no sadness over your loved ones not being in heaven.



rcjames -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 3:55:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude
Interesting. I never expected you to get defensive. I just asked for some scripture. If you don't have scripture to back up your claim, just say so please.


My friend armydude, I am not being defensive, I am saying that there seems to be no Scripture that says anything about our knowledge in Heaven besides Heaven and worshipping God.

I am, as always, ready to have my opinion changed by Scripture. As for Scripture about our joy in heaven vs. sadness or worry;

(Rev 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

(Rev 21:4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

That seems to say, at least to this ole country boy, that there is no death, sorrow, crying, or pain in Heaven.

Thanks
RC



armydude -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 4:01:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

My friend armydude, I am not being defensive, I am saying that there seems to be no Scripture that says anything about our knowledge in Heaven besides Heaven and worshipping God.
It seems to me that scripture is pretty silent on that issue. So all we really have is speculation on either side.
quote:



I am, as always, ready to have my opinion changed by Scripture. As for Scripture about our joy in heaven vs. sadness or worry;

(Rev 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

(Rev 21:4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

That seems to say, at least to this ole country boy, that there is no death, sorrow, crying, or pain in Heaven.
I agree with all of those. But no knowledge? I just can't wrap my mind around that. This is purely my opinion, and I have no scriptures (as of yet) to back this up. But peace does not come from being ignorant. Peace comes from knowing FULLY how good God is. Being ignorant of what happens to our loved ones that died without Christ doesn't seem (IMO) to lead to peace. It leads to speculation. "Where is _____?" "Oh, he/she didn't make it." No peace there.

But if we were to cry over the demise of our loved ones, and God wiped away those tears to show that He loves us (and loved them too) there's peace there. Once again, my opinion. But I can't see God pulling the wool over our eyes. That's just not peace.


My apologies for my last post, but when I asked for scriptures and I was met with that... well it did look a little defensive.



Kat_D -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 5:07:11 PM)

Armydude, here is John Gill's Exposition on the verses...hope it helps!

Revelation 21:4

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes…
Occasioned by sin, Satan, the hidings of God's face, and afflictive dispensations of Providence; for these will be no more:

and there shall be no more death;
natural or violent; there will be no more putting of the saints to death, or persecution of them unto death, as in former times; nor will they die a natural death any more; these children of the resurrection, and inhabitants of the new heaven and earth, will be like the angels, who die not; there will be no more deadness as to spiritual things among the saints; and as for the second death, that will have no power over them. So the Jews say F21, (abl) (dytel htym Nya) , "there is no death in the world to come"; good is laid up for the righteous in the world to come, and with them is no death {x}; and after the resurrection the body is perfect, and shall never after taste the taste of death F25.

Neither sorrow, nor crying;
on account of sin, or because of oppression and persecution, or through the loss of near relations and friends; sorrow and sighing will flee away, all occasions thereof being gone: neither shall there be any more pain; either of body or mind; there will be nothing to afflict the mind, and make that uneasy, but all the reverse; nor will there be any sickness or diseases of body, for the body will be raised glorious, powerful, incorruptible, and spiritual.



armydude -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 5:08:36 PM)

Thank you Kat, but I have this thing about reading other people's expositions. I do appreciate it. But I think I'm going to be doing my own investigation. [:D]



Kat_D -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 6:04:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

Thank you Kat, but I have this thing about reading other people's expositions. I do appreciate it. But I think I'm going to be doing my own investigation. [:D]


I can respect that![;)]



armydude -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 6:05:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

Thank you Kat, but I have this thing about reading other people's expositions. I do appreciate it. But I think I'm going to be doing my own investigation. [:D]


I can respect that![;)]
Thanks! I've found I can get sidetracked way too easy when I go that route...


But thanks again for the information!



makarizo -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 7:16:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

. But no knowledge? I just can't wrap my mind around that. This is purely my opinion, and I have no scriptures (as of yet) to back this up. But peace does not come from being ignorant. Peace comes from knowing FULLY how good God is.


at the end of 1st Cor 13:
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

Is this the the right context for what you are looking for?



armydude -> RE: How can there be no pain in heaven... (6/17/2008 7:18:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doer

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

. But no knowledge? I just can't wrap my mind around that. This is purely my opinion, and I have no scriptures (as of yet) to back this up. But peace does not come from being ignorant. Peace comes from knowing FULLY how good God is.


at the end of 1st Cor 13:
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

Is this the the right context for what you are looking for?
Maybe... I know I was thinking about it. But as of now, I'm not entirely certain. Thanks though!



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