Ghost hunting--Two questions (Full Version)

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_CANCELLED_ -> Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/15/2008 2:43:48 PM)

Is watching shows like Ghost Hunters something we, as Christians, are not supposed to do? I find it fascinating--the stories people tell. But while I believe paranormal things do happen, I have my own ideas about what some of these things are people claim to see and 'ghosts' of deceased humans isn't one of them. Can the deceased be trapped here on earth or choose to stay?



atheistinpeace -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/15/2008 3:11:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cross_Eyed_4_Life

Is watching shows like Ghost Hunters something we, as Christians, are not supposed to do? I find it fascinating--the stories people tell. But while I believe paranormal things do happen, I have my own ideas about what some of these things are people claim to see and 'ghosts' of deceased humans isn't one of them. Can the deceased be trapped here on earth or choose to stay?


There's some excellent stuff on the web to dispel the idea that what ghosthunters 'find' are actually ghosts. The two main errors committed seem to be 1. bad interpretation of 'evidence' - e.g. what they immediately think is a ghost (in the form of a light orb) is actually lens flare, or some other camera issue; and 2. a really bad approach to investigating the phenomenon of interest - i.e. they don't form a hypothesis and test it; instead, they rush to look for anomalies, and then build their hypothesis (as a conclusion) based on those anomalies.

What I'm driving at is this - and I acknowledge I may not be the most suitable person for addressing this matter - it's safe to assume that no ghosts are actually being found; therefore, the programme can be watched as pure entertainment. I hope that this would allieve any guilt over watching it as a Christian.

AiP



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/15/2008 3:24:40 PM)

quote:

What I'm driving at is this - and I acknowledge I may not be the most suitable person for addressing this matter - it's safe to assume that no ghosts are actually being found; therefore, the programme can be watched as pure entertainment. I hope that this would allieve any guilt over watching it as a Christian.


LOL I like that. And that's about right anway b'c mostly I sit there and laugh at it.



FolkSingerBlues -> RE: Two questions (6/15/2008 3:29:37 PM)

You pose in interesting question.

quote:

Is watching shows like Ghost Hunters something we, as Christians, are not supposed to do? I


I believe that these shows increase interest in the consultation with the dead. Consultation with the dead is something that God specifically spoke against in the OT. (Deuteronomy 18:10-11) I would implore you to read 1 Samuel 28:7 and come to a conclusion about such activity.

quote:

Can the deceased be trapped here on earth or choose to stay?


I do not see any evidence of the deceased being trapped "here on earth" or "choosing to stay".
Hebrews 9:27 suggests to me that there is not a possibility of being "trapped on earth" or "choosing to stay."

The witch of Endor called up "Samuel" for King Saul. There is not a statement that proves that Samuel was who she had actually saw. I do however believe that the apparition that appeared did however appear to be Samuel.

A majority of the above is heavily related to my opinion. Although I do believe it to be accurate by Biblical study.



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Two questions (6/15/2008 3:40:45 PM)

quote:

I believe that these shows increase interest in the consultation with the dead. Consultation with the dead is something that God specifically spoke against in the OT. (Deuteronomy 18:10-11) I would implore you to read 1 Samuel 28:7 and come to a conclusion about such activity.


That's what was weighing on my mind. While some of us can resist partaking at seeing someone do this, it still encourages others. Ho-hum. I guess I already knew the answer to this. [:(]



kitken01 -> RE: Two questions (6/15/2008 10:56:28 PM)

Cross Eyed, I know where you're coming from, as this stuff can be entertaining to watch for those of us who know better from a biblical standpoint. I guess it's best to carefully avoid direct involvement with such things, though, as the Holy Spirit directs.



DaveW -> RE: Two questions (6/16/2008 8:13:12 AM)

There are 2 different issues this brings up:

1) What is your worldview and 2) what is it these "investigators" are actually encountering? The answer of the first determines the possible answers for the 2nd.

If you have the modern western worldview which rejects anything supernatural, there are no such things as ghosts, demons, angels, etc. so everything has to be explained by natural forces. However, this worldview is clearly at odds with the bible which describes the actions of angels and (to a much lesser degree) demons.

If you have a worldview that includes angels and demons being able to impact our natural world, then you need to find out IF the said occurance was truly supernatural and if so, by what? As others have pointed out, there is no biblical indication of the soul/spirit of departed people still being present in this world. That leaves angels and demons.

Personally I have no interest in those shows. While it may change the worldview of the viewer, it also seems to be geared toward interest in the occult - something strictly forbidden in scripture.



atheistinpeace -> RE: Two questions (6/16/2008 5:28:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

There are 2 different issues this brings up:

1) What is your worldview and 2) what is it these "investigators" are actually encountering? The answer of the first determines the possible answers for the 2nd.

If you have the modern western worldview which rejects anything supernatural, there are no such things as ghosts, demons, angels, etc. so everything has to be explained by natural forces. However, this worldview is clearly at odds with the bible which describes the actions of angels and (to a much lesser degree) demons.

If you have a worldview that includes angels and demons being able to impact our natural world, then you need to find out IF the said occurance was truly supernatural and if so, by what? As others have pointed out, there is no biblical indication of the soul/spirit of departed people still being present in this world. That leaves angels and demons.

Personally I have no interest in those shows. While it may change the worldview of the viewer, it also seems to be geared toward interest in the occult - something strictly forbidden in scripture.


But - even if your worldview includes the supernatural, does not the overwhelming stack of evidence that ghosthunter shows are essentially complete junk not put your mind at rest somewhat? There's no reason to then go and watch them (can't think of anything more mind-numbing personally), but surely it allows you to dismiss them, rather than, for want of a better word, fear them?

AiP



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Two questions (6/16/2008 5:36:05 PM)

quote:

There's no reason to then go and watch them (can't think of anything more mind-numbing personally),


Just a quick butt-in--I can certainly understand that and I don't normally even admit to watching it b'c I basically laugh at it but that's probably part of the allure for me--it gives me one hour to forget about my trials and tribulations and just rest my mind for a while.



oldmethuselah -> RE: Two questions (6/16/2008 9:34:05 PM)

quote:

But - even if your worldview includes the supernatural,


Ah, Atheist, a chance remark in THIS thread allows me to complete a thought that was taken away from us both in the banished thread (you know which one)...

that is to say, what I have been trying to explain is that Christianity is a WIDER view, not a more narrow one, than atheism, in the sense that you (and I as a former atheist) exclude and preclude so much with our supposition of nothingness outside our own physical realm.

The topic of THIS thread only serves to underline that... of COURSE there are physical explanations for many of the so called "proofs" of the supernatural... but there is an inherent flaw in using the blanket approach you use to dismiss ALL supernatural phenomena.

Until you are at a place where you can allow for something outside YOUR personal experience, the stories of my well educated medical companions who came up against "other forces" while working as missionaries in Africa will be dismissed out of hand as a) ignorant hysteria, or b) willful misrepresentation.

The ONLY thing I can offer to counter your charges is the fact that LOGIC does not support either assumption a) or b).

a) because the individuals involved are the "cream of the intellectual crop", though they would never classify themselves as such. ie: one was my calculus students who in his final high school year had seven of eight final grades of 100 and went on to win the highest prize at Waterloo University in Mathematics before going to the mission field, and,

b) the Christians I am talking about follow and believe in the importance of being truthful as a foundational teaching of evangelical Christianity and would experience SIGNIFICANT cognitive dissonance if they willfully LIED to make a point... and, remember, they are basically there to heal people, and would have not time or inclination to enter into silly arguments and "make points" (missionaries, unlike many tv evangelists, do not gain financially from bilking the people they serve)

The OTHER thing that was banished from our "disappeared" thread... did you ever explore Ravi Zacharias ministries?

Last time you said you had not looked into it.



JesusFan -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/17/2008 11:42:01 AM)

There are definitely spirits out there, they just aren't spirits of the dead, since people's spirits can't come back after they die. Unexplainable happenings are certainly fascinating to read about, just don't go believing that what people are seeing are really "dead people." And certainly don't try to contact one, because what these spirits really are, are demons. [sm=eek.gif]



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/17/2008 12:46:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JesusFan

There are definitely spirits out there, they just aren't spirits of the dead, since people's spirits can't come back after they die. Unexplainable happenings are certainly fascinating to read about, just don't go believing that what people are seeing are really "dead people." And certainly don't try to contact one, because what these spirits really are, are demons. [sm=eek.gif]


My thoughts, exactly. The ghost-believers ask, what about the visions of deceased loved ones--are those demons? I'm sorry to say I believe they are and their job is to cast doubt on you that your loved ones are in heaven or that there is a heaven. "Why would we need a heaven when we can stay here with the loved ones we left behind?", right? Wrong.



seekingwisdom -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/17/2008 2:09:07 PM)

quote:

My thoughts, exactly. The ghost-believers ask, what about the visions of deceased loved ones--are those demons? I'm sorry to say I believe they are and their job is to cast doubt on you that your loved ones are in heaven or that there is a heaven. "Why would we need a heaven when we can stay here with the loved ones we left behind?", right? Wrong.


This is exactly what happened to me after watching the first season and the second season on youtube all in a couple of days, I actually started questioning if there actually could be such things as ghosts and then what about heaven.

In retrospect I know now I was a complete fool to buy into questioning that and thankfully because I have a solid faith I did not question it for more then a few minutes. After those few minutes, I then turned my questioning towards the validity of the show, the creators and the ghost hunters themselves. From there I started on a web search on that question and in about two hours came up with a lot of incriminating evidence against both the show and the two ghost hunter guys that most if not all of their evidence is fake and completely created by them.

I started with their own website, which is run and monitored by them and people they work with. On it, i found threads that had been closed. These threads all were people who were actually taking action on their own to debunk the ghost hunters evidence of the show. From there I looked up the user names on the net of the people who were doing this and found a new forum they created on ezboard. (they had been banned from the actual board) and in that forum I found most of the information I was looking for that explained and proved how the show was completely fake. Here's the link to the forum.

http://tapsrevealed.yuku.com/

One user explains the show using an old con trick called the "Confidence game" and after reading his theory of the show it made so much sense about how I got fooled in the first place. How the confidence game is played on the show is the ghost hunters draw you in is by gaining your confidence by being all about debunking in the first place. That way when the "FIND" their "EVIDENCE" you are completely suckered into believing it "MUST" be real.

Im happy to say I only got fooled for a few minutes and basically had fun researching and finding the evidence that debunked the show itself BUT I quit watching regardless. It is pretty mind numbing and boring once you know it's all just an ACT. From this I saw yet again that the whole idle minds/devils playground isn't just a saying, it's a fact. Bordom was the driving factor me to watch the show in the first place. Better to find more productive things to do in my opinion.



atheistinpeace -> RE: Two questions (6/17/2008 4:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah
that is to say, what I have been trying to explain is that Christianity is a WIDER view, not a more narrow one, than atheism, in the sense that you (and I as a former atheist) exclude and preclude so much with our supposition of nothingness outside our own physical realm.

The topic of THIS thread only serves to underline that... of COURSE there are physical explanations for many of the so called "proofs" of the supernatural... but there is an inherent flaw in using the blanket approach you use to dismiss ALL supernatural phenomena.


You've noted a trap that doubters of any kind could fall into - namely, the one of refusing to believe something just because you've not experienced it yourself. Very true. But I don't think it applies here.

I doubt the existence of ghosts not because I haven't experienced them, but because the assumptions required to believe them are too complex and far-fetched. Namely: there is an afterlife, the soul enters the human body at some point between being a zygote and born baby, souls have specific intentions, some metaphysical law means they can only appear in vague forms; then, what underpins this law, what governs it, etc. Occam's Razor (Occam was a monk) holds that the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is the best one. In this case, that applies convincingly. The simple assumptions - which, importantly, are instantly explainable - are far easier to make, and lead to a better explanation for the perception of ghosts.

But even that aside - if we only believe things we have experienced ourselves, are we not opening our minds up to all sorts of nonsense? If I was a Muslim, I could talk to you about how great it is to feel Allah's blessing and his presence in my life - but you wouldn't begin to entertain the possibility that Allah exists and the Biblical God doesn't. Similarly, using your logic, I could admonish you for being closed-minded about the Tooth Fairy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah
Until you are at a place where you can allow for something outside YOUR personal experience, the stories of my well educated medical companions who came up against "other forces" while working as missionaries in Africa will be dismissed out of hand as a) ignorant hysteria, or b) willful misrepresentation.

The ONLY thing I can offer to counter your charges is the fact that LOGIC does not support either assumption a) or b).

a) because the individuals involved are the "cream of the intellectual crop", though they would never classify themselves as such. ie: one was my calculus students who in his final high school year had seven of eight final grades of 100 and went on to win the highest prize at Waterloo University in Mathematics before going to the mission field, and,

b) the Christians I am talking about follow and believe in the importance of being truthful as a foundational teaching of evangelical Christianity and would experience SIGNIFICANT cognitive dissonance if they willfully LIED to make a point... and, remember, they are basically there to heal people, and would have not time or inclination to enter into silly arguments and "make points" (missionaries, unlike many tv evangelists, do not gain financially from bilking the people they serve)


Rather than hysteria or lying, I would say misconception. Hard to say without the details, though I'm not sure it's worth introducing them here.

I don't buy point b) at all - I know of Christians both personally and through the media who have either lied, or are habitual liars. They seem to handle the cognitive dissonance without too much trouble. But I'm not sure that's relevant here - would rather this thread continued on the original topic of ghosts. I think I've written plenty above on which we can carry on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah
The OTHER thing that was banished from our "disappeared" thread... did you ever explore Ravi Zacharias ministries?

Last time you said you had not looked into it.


I did have a look... why did you ask me to look at that particular ministry - did you think it would prove the most convincing for converting me? Probably best to start a new thread on that one. I'll look out for it.

AiP



JimboFletch -> RE: Two questions (6/17/2008 4:21:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atheistinpeace
You've noted a trap that doubters of any kind could fall into - namely, the one of refusing to believe something just because you've not experienced it yourself. Very true. But I don't think it applies here.

The Bible reveals that humans go somewhere else immediately after death and, therefore, any spiritual activity one might encounter has its source in angels or demons, godly or evil. But not human.



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Two questions (6/17/2008 4:53:57 PM)

I'm a doubter (in that I don't believe they're human spirits) but I have experienced something and there were witnesses so that pretty much puts the kibosh on the theory that most ghost-believers throw at you--that you're just a doubter b'c you've never experienced anything. I have to say, how do you know I haven't experienced anything?



oldmethuselah -> RE: Two questions for atheist! a) Amoeba and b) Ravi (6/17/2008 5:34:26 PM)

atheistinpeace said:

quote:

Occam's Razor (Occam was a monk) holds that the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is the best one.


The truly hilarious thing about all this is I use Occam's razor to give a strong indication of the folly of the pieced together patchwork logic embodied in atheism!

Just goes to show that different blokes use different strokes! ROFL

But, more seriously, atheistinpeace, SOMEHOW I am not communicating very clearly or you are not receiving very clearly on this whole logic thing...

I have TRIED to explain to you that I was speaking about award winning top of the line intelligent people who are living on very modest wages serving in third world countries and who lack motive or interest in the kind of prevarications you accuse them of.

You seem to keep speaking about fake lying individuals who PROFESS Christianity but lie cheat and steal.

NOBODY is denying the presence - indeed even the prevalence - of such fake lying individuals - but what has that to do with my post? I am merely saying now, as I did before, you cannot twist or turn the teachings of Christ to support lying and dishonesty, and the intelligent people mentioned above would KNOW that. It would undermine their very raison d'etre.


So, back to logic, IF you broke thru the ceiling of an apartment building into a room and saw an number of incredibly intricate mechanisms and amazing gadgets...

you COULD say, they all came together by random chance... or you COULD say, "an inventor must live here"

BOTH statements can be made... BUT THE ONE SUPPORTED BY OCCAM'S RAZOR is the LATTER!

The LENGTHS to which atheists must go to support the unbelief is phenomenal! I left it because, as a mathematician, I could no longer support the twisted patchwork of denial, straw dog arguments and ad hominem reasoning.

Now, it is not unreasonable to suppose that we (humans) are not the only entities in the universe with reasoning power (in fact it is quite arrogant to say we are), and, as a scientist, I assure you that we have ONLY scratched the surface of knowledge.

So I leave you with TWO questions....

a) Are you willing to state that a simple amoeba is MORE complex than our BEST computer?

b) Have you checked out Ravi Zacharias' ministry yet?

As far as the amoeba question goes, our class asked an anti-Intelligent-Design website leader that question and, refreshingly, he said "Yes I acknowledge that a simple amoeba is more complex than our finest computers, but I HAVE FAITH that 4 billion years of evolution could produce it"! (Occam's razor would favor an intelligent designer, rather than an incredibly long run of good luck, because it is the SIMPLER explanation,whether it is right or wrong.)

Or, atheistinpeace, are you going to insist that an amoeba is a simplistic blob?


As far as the Zacharias question goes, it could cause YOU significant cognitive dissonance to acknowledge that ANY one on the Christian side has a good mind and sound logic, but I ask you to consider it anyway!

but, just a sec, back here in the trailer park my 5 hounds are kicking up quite a fuss, so I better go and feed them!
Until next time ... So Long!



atheistinpeace -> RE: Two questions for atheist! a) Amoeba and b) Ravi (6/17/2008 6:07:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah

atheistinpeace said:

quote:

Occam's Razor (Occam was a monk) holds that the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is the best one.


The truly hilarious thing about all this is I use Occam's razor to give a strong indication of the folly of the pieced together patchwork logic embodied in atheism!

Just goes to show that different blokes use different strokes! ROFL

But, more seriously, atheistinpeace, SOMEHOW I am not communicating very clearly or you are not receiving very clearly on this whole logic thing...

I have TRIED to explain to you that I was speaking about award winning top of the line intelligent people who are living on very modest wages serving in third world countries and who lack motive or interest in the kind of prevarications you accuse them of.

You seem to keep speaking about fake lying individuals who PROFESS Christianity but lie cheat and steal.

NOBODY is denying the presence - indeed even the prevalence - of such fake lying individuals - but what has that to do with my post? I am merely saying now, as I did before, you cannot twist or turn the teachings of Christ to support lying and dishonesty, and the intelligent people mentioned above would KNOW that. It would undermine their very raison d'etre.


So, back to logic, IF you broke thru the ceiling of an apartment building into a room and saw an number of incredibly intricate mechanisms and amazing gadgets...

you COULD say, they all came together by random chance... or you COULD say, "an inventor must live here"

BOTH statements can be made... BUT THE ONE SUPPORTED BY OCCAM'S RAZOR is the LATTER!

The LENGTHS to which atheists must go to support the unbelief is phenomenal! I left it because, as a mathematician, I could no longer support the twisted patchwork of denial, straw dog arguments and ad hominem reasoning.

Now, it is not unreasonable to suppose that we (humans) are not the only entities in the universe with reasoning power (in fact it is quite arrogant to say we are), and, as a scientist, I assure you that we have ONLY scratched the surface of knowledge.

So I leave you with TWO questions....

a) Are you willing to state that a simple amoeba is MORE complex than our BEST computer?

b) Have you checked out Ravi Zacharias' ministry yet?

As far as the amoeba question goes, our class asked an anti-Intelligent-Design website leader that question and, refreshingly, he said "Yes I acknowledge that a simple amoeba is more complex than our finest computers, but I HAVE FAITH that 4 billion years of evolution could produce it"! (Occam's razor would favor an intelligent designer, rather than an incredibly long run of good luck, because it is the SIMPLER explanation,whether it is right or wrong.)

Or, atheistinpeace, are you going to insist that an amoeba is a simplistic blob?


As far as the Zacharias question goes, it could cause YOU significant cognitive dissonance to acknowledge that ANY one on the Christian side has a good mind and sound logic, but I ask you to consider it anyway!

but, just a sec, back here in the trailer park my 5 hounds are kicking up quite a fuss, so I better go and feed them!
Until next time ... So Long!


I don't think you read my post!

I explicity said that in the case of the intellectuals who have encountered 'other forces', as you call them, misconception was the most likely explanation. I mentioned the fact that some Christians lie in response to point b, not in response to the case you cited. Please read what I wrote.

I have no idea where your comment about the apartment full of inventions came from. That's an argument about ID v evolution. I didn't even mention the ameoba. But to respond to it: an amoeba consists of self-replicating chemicals; the sort of contraption you mention does not. And evolution by natural selection is not random. Finally, Occam's Razor would not favour a designer, as it requires assumptions to support the hypothesis of the designer. Anyway, can we have this argument elsewhere? This isn't the thread for it.

And I said that I had looked at Ravi Zacharias's minstries, and asked that if you want to press this point, which you have already done, then another thread might be the best place for it.

AiP



oldmethuselah -> Other Forces (6/18/2008 8:22:36 PM)

Relevant to THIS thread, atheistinpeace, is a strong underlying position that you have taken that PRECLUDES - out of hand - the alternate explanations ("ghosts" etc.).

I personally do not believe in the "ghosts" as they are portrayed here, BUT I have merely tried to point out that your worldview does not have sufficient latitude to allow a full exploration of the phenomena.

This, I believe, is connected to the universe you live in.

In that universe, professors WELCOME criticism and being proven wrong...

in my universe, which includes a place which can be found on a map - University of Surrey - and another place called the University of Toronto - as well as twenty five years of colleagues from many major universities across this world, I have YET to see these happy professors who love to be proved wrong...

Now, I am not saying that such places do not exist, I only ask you to tell us - by naming them and their location on our maps - where these happy creatures live (not counting Dawkins mind) from you OWN experience.

SO... in the SAME WAY... I am asking YOU to adopt a Similar Policy with regard to this "ghostly" thread... instead of ruling out things which you think impossible (an atheistic trait I used to share)... merely ask that the proponents of such seemingly wild theories exhibit a credibility and rationality in their answers.

This does NOT mean AGREEING with them, but it DOES mean approaching things without the dampening effect of your own strong pre-suppositions.



Kat_D -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/18/2008 9:01:07 PM)

This is what the Bible says:

8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, *sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21

19 "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, *witchcraft, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." -Galatians 5

(*dealers with familiar spirits, necromancers)

Now is watching it participating in it? I think so. But, even if it weren't, does it bring honor to the Lord? Does it please Him? Is it uplifting or edifying? Can anything good come from it? I think not.

8 "Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things. 9 The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you." -Philippians 4



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/18/2008 9:10:23 PM)

quote:

8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, *sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21


5 (serious, believe it or not) questions

1-How many lies does it take to make a person a liar by the Bible's standards?

2-Do little white lies count as lies--don't waste your time answering here, we all know the answer to that. LOL It was more a statement

3-Is there a person alive who doesn't tell little white lies from time to time? (we can lie to ourselves and others but not to The Father)

4-Lying to yourself is still lying isn't it? So does that make you a liar?

5-If little white lies count, is anyone , therefore, getting in to heaven?



Kat_D -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/18/2008 9:29:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Won_by_One

quote:

8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, *sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21


5 (serious, believe it or not) questions

1-How many lies does it take to make a person a liar by the Bible's standards?

2-Do little white lies count as lies--don't waste your time answering here, we all know the answer to that. LOL It was more a statement

3-Is there a person alive who doesn't tell little white lies from time to time? (we can lie to ourselves and others but not to The Father)

4-Lying to yourself is still lying isn't it? So does that make you a liar?

5-If little white lies count, is anyone , therefore, getting in to heaven?

[sm=sadquestion.gif]

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about and what does that have to do with the topic? The Scripture wasn't given to compare the sins spoken of there or to justify one sin because it may be more "acceptable" than the others. Sin is sin to God.

You asked a question about watching shows that deal with communicating with/hunting spirits. I gave the Scripture to try and show you that having anything to do with witchcraft, sorcery, necromancy or divination is wrong according to the Bible.



draexo -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/18/2008 9:35:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Won_by_One

Is watching shows like Ghost Hunters something we, as Christians, are not supposed to do? I find it fascinating--the stories people tell. But while I believe paranormal things do happen, I have my own ideas about what some of these things are people claim to see and 'ghosts' of deceased humans isn't one of them. Can the deceased be trapped here on earth or choose to stay?

My wife watches Ghostwhisperer (or however you spell it). I was never too thrilled with it. We watched a few episodes together and she understands that these paranormal things are forbidden in the Bible and that these "ghosts" are probably not ghosts at all.



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/18/2008 9:42:33 PM)

quote:


I'm sorry, but what are you talking about and what does that have to do with the topic?


I was simply responding to Scripture you posted. As it happens in conversation, one thought leads to another. It's my topic I can sway if I want to--sway if I want to... to the tune of It's My Party LOL Just joking. [;)] Seriously, I ask b'c some Scripture not only confuses me but outright scares me. As hard as I try, I'm not perfect so by the Bibles definition(?) of a liar, I have to ask. It's a sincere question.



_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Ghost hunting--Two questions (6/18/2008 9:44:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: draexo

My wife watches Ghostwhisperer (or however you spell it). I was never too thrilled with it. We watched a few episodes together and she understands that these paranormal things are forbidden in the Bible and that these "ghosts" are probably not ghosts at all.


Right. We have a couple at my former church who are considered very Godly--acknowledging the power thereof, of course--and Live the Word, yet, the wife watched The X Files and the husband wasn't happy about it at all.



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