RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Faith] >> General Faith



Message

blue1914 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 9:48:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

I converted at age 11, and I was water baptized by the time I was a young adult in spite of the fact that I have always intellectually struggled with the bible and the gospel message.

What else would you like to know?


What specifically did you struggle with in the Bible and the Gospel message?

Did you find the God of the Old Testatment to be congruent with the God of the New Testament?

Do you feel that the stories of the Bible have any credibility at all-even in a historical context?

Thanks in advance for answering when you get the chance!



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 9:50:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
AiP,
Thanks for that input....

Yes, thank you atheistinpeace. You put that very well.

quote:

This is mind-boggling to me that a so-called Christian would insinuate what I emboldened....

Well, take a good look in the Science & Origins folder sometime and you will see that Christian creationists not only insinuate, but openly promulgate this very premise. This attitude also crops up in political discussions as well.

quote:

You are very brave to allow yourself to be so vulnerable and field/answer all our questions

I do feel like I'm on a talk show taking questions from callers, but I don't mind. Usually no one wants to know my opinions!

quote:

I have seen a few replies to you that come across as somewhat harsh but you seem to take them in stride quite well...

Sometimes I'm not a very nice guy, either. I probably open myself up to a certain amount of flak.

quote:

I was thinking, earlier today, how you were/are involved with quite the heated discussion with Jhud but the Lord kindof interrupted you as He has a way of doing with those He dearly loves

Well, I must admit that it's not like me to respond with humor-- corny though it was. I will attempt to interject more of it into my responses. There's nothing wrong with lightening up.
It's just that I'm not exactly Chuckles the Clown. My personality bubbles with all the effervescence of Ben Stein saying, "Wow." (I would probably use him for my avatar if I could ever figure the darned system out.)

quote:

You have a very interesting back-ground and, it is interesting to me that you were involved in Jehovah's Witnesses and LDS.

I wouldn't say "involved." We slept together a couple of times . . .
Okay, even I know that was in bad taste . . .
I looked into what they were about. I sensed very quickly that they were coloring way outside the lines, biblically-speaking.

quote:

For you post much of "religion" and it sounds as if it was quite a burden to you instead of a joyful journey that most of us have discovered? Did you ever find joy in God?

Good question. There was some joy, but mostly it was just a lot of confusion on my part. Let's just say that I was more dissatisfied than I was joyful. It really struck home when I would read things like Isaiah 55 and I would think, "This is nothing like my experience."

quote:

And, forgive me if this is too personal, but would you care to share with us how you "see" God now?

No, it's not too personal, because I see God as an impersonal force. I don't know what God is or wants from us, but I don't think that the God of the bible (or any other book) is it.

quote:

One more thing, for now...When I saw your reply to someone and you wrote "the Lord", I will be honest with you, that made me cry

I'm sorry. It's just "Christianese" to refer to God the Father or God the Son as the Lord. Even some non-believers use this vernacular.

quote:

"Thus, I did not proselytize as a Christian; that's one of the many reasons why a made a lousy one"
Can you elaborate on the quote of yours I copied?

Well, proselytizing has always offended me. I do not appreciate when people come to my door, or walk up to me on the street and start waving a bible at me and speaking to me as if I were a complete ignoramus when it comes to the gospel. Oftentimes I know more than they do!

So, why would I turn around and do the same thing? No one is impressed by people who go around wearing their religion on their sleeve. Outward piety and religious zeal doesn't turn anybody on except for the zealots themselves. It doesn't do anything for anybody, and yet there it is in the bible: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
The Great Commission has hurt so many people throughout history, especially those who were forced to convert. And you can blame man for this, but God supposedly gave the commission, and supposedly accompanied it with the unction of the Holy Spirit. Who let down on their end of the bargain: the Holy Spirit, or man?
No matter which answer you pick, it only proves that the whole thing is completely futile. Neither God's annointing nor man's ability to receive it is sufficient. Evil still wins out in the long run, at least in this life.
Now, I may be 100% wrong in what I just said, but I cannot see it any other way.

Thus, I make a lousy Christian, amen? (more Christianese)



blue1914 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 9:57:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

It's interesting that you think this; I never considered Jesus or his disciples to be non-religious people. In fact, they were very pious about their Judaism, both culturally and religiously. It was the basis of the gospel.



This is an interesting statement to make-how did you draw this conclusion from your study of the Bible? (and I ask this with true sincerity of heart, sometimes the printed page is a bad medium, I am not trying to challenge your belief per se but just understand your process in reaching it)

Also, just curious from the "sticking the head in the sand" reference-the premise of Christianity is that we have faith but our faith is FOUNDED in something tangible (for instance, we have faith in a God we cannot see, but we know He is there because His creation speaks to his existance-and from time to time, He will give more concrete evidence by way of miracles, signs and wonders, etc etc.). If you were to see evidence of the tangible (such as an undisputed miracle occurring before your eyes-a man with no hand growing one in the space of a minute before your eyes, etc.) do you think that would have an impact on the way you believe (and I realize that this is purely an academic question because there is no answer to it unless and until you do experience a miracle of that magnitude)? Again, I ask in all sincerity of heart seeking to understand the way you believe

Thanks!



blue1914 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 10:19:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

"Thus, I did not proselytize as a Christian; that's one of the many reasons why a made a lousy one"
Can you elaborate on the quote of yours I copied?

Well, proselytizing has always offended me. I do not appreciate when people come to my door, or walk up to me on the street and start waving a bible at me and speaking to me as if I were a complete ignoramus when it comes to the gospel. Oftentimes I know more than they do!

So, why would I turn around and do the same thing? No one is impressed by people who go around wearing their religion on their sleeve. Outward piety and religious zeal doesn't turn anybody on except for the zealots themselves. It doesn't do anything for anybody, and yet there it is in the bible: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
The Great Commission has hurt so many people throughout history, especially those who were forced to convert. And you can blame man for this, but God supposedly gave the commission, and supposedly accompanied it with the unction of the Holy Spirit. Who let down on their end of the bargain: the Holy Spirit, or man?
No matter which answer you pick, it only proves that the whole thing is completely futile. Neither God's annointing nor man's ability to receive it is sufficient. Evil still wins out in the long run, at least in this life.
Now, I may be 100% wrong in what I just said, but I cannot see it any other way.

Thus, I make a lousy Christian, amen? (more Christianese)


Wow, that's a pretty well thought out conclusion regarding evangelism (prostelytizing) and in many ways very congruent with my own belief and understanding of the Great Comission.

So that said, you ask a question - who failed? May I ask a different question-what if both succeeded, but in order to view that success, you must understand it's context?

Here's what I mean. You correctly state that many times the only ones "impressed" by evangelism are those who don't need it (those who already believe)-but occasionally, this is NOT true, would you agree (in other words have you ever seen someone convert to Christianity who before was hostile to the gospel, etc.)? While your orginal statement is true for the majority of people, is it possible that for those few people they are the "exception to the rule". That might be like living in a nation that speaks a different language than you do (say you live in Japan) and every now and again an English language program comes on television. For 99% of the population, it is complete gibberish, but for you and the other few American nationals, it is meaningful. Is it possible that's how prostelytizing works-99.5% of the time it has no effect, it's that .5% of the time that all the rest of it is for? In my example, the television program is broadcast to the entire country, but only 1% of the people "get it"-see what I mean?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 12:27:23 PM)

I beg everyone's forebearance today. I have a lot of other things going on, so my answers are going to be in hit & run fashion. I'll get to everyone's questions as time permits me.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 12:40:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

I beg everyone's forebearance today. I have a lot of other things going on, so my answers are going to be in hit & run fashion. I'll get to everyone's questions as time permits me.


Good morning....Glad to see you are still here[;)] I will withhold my further interrogation until you have a little more time.....

Perhaps you have a new career....Talk show host or something like that[:D]



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 12:57:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Bottom line is...we want you back and you can come back. No matter how poorly we represent this, it is the bottom line of who we are and what we want. All discussions...should...be to this end.

Very kind sentiment. Apparently you believe that an apostate sheep can return to the fold. There are things in scripture, like the story of the prodigal son, that suggest this.
But then there are verses like 2Peter 2:20-22, and a whole host of others refering to those who endure and remain faithful to the end. Do you not see a suggestion in those verses that an apostate Christian loses their salvation?
If not, why not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved
So I'll ask you a very basic question. Do you see yourself as a sinner and separated from God?

As far as biblical theology goes, yes. Outside of biblical theology, no. I am a human being who makes mistakes and tries to learn from them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BibleL7
I find it interesting that you say you have intellectual differences with Bible. If you would care to discuss them you can PM me or email me at BibleL7@yahoo.com I personally had not found anything that contradicts the Bible or Gospel message. And since Cherished thinks you are genuine I would be interested in discussing it with you.

I may not have adequate time for this. But if I do, I certainly appreciate you willing to "go to the mat" with me, so to speak. Let's see what happens in the next few days.
Thanks, BibleL7 . . . and I dig your user name.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
1dblthnk02, Just wanted to let you know I'm here listening for now; So far, Liveloved is doing so much better at communicating with you on this subject (from my view point) than I possibly could, so I'm just going to listen-in and let the two of you continue for now.

Good enough, and thank you for kindly droppin' in (as they said on the Beverly Hillbillies).

quote:

ORIGINAL: blue1914
What specifically did you struggle with in the Bible and the Gospel message?

The whole thing. The whole meme of God creating a perfect world, and yet being unable to prevent it from becoming messed up-- or else he fully allowed it to get messed up-- and blaming us for the mess we are in . . . it just doesn't add up when we are talking about an omniscient, omnipotent being supposedly far superior to us.
Who's in charge here: Him or us? If it's us, then why didn't he create us better able to manage things?

quote:

Did you find the God of the Old Testatment to be congruent with the God of the New Testament?

God the Father, yes. God the Son, no.

quote:

Do you feel that the stories of the Bible have any credibility at all-even in a historical context?

Some do, some don't. There are legends and oral traditions all over the world handed down to us from time immemorial that have elements of truth in them. Bible stories are no different, in my opinion.

quote:

Thanks in advance for answering when you get the chance!

Thanks for asking, and remember to vote Democrat! . . .

JUST KIDDING

quote:

This is an interesting statement to make-how did you draw this conclusion from your study of the Bible?

Well, this would involve a verse-by-verse bible search that time won't permit for the moment. Let's just say that the gospels show Christ and his disciples as adhering to and advocating the Jewish religion.

quote:

If you were to see evidence of the tangible (such as an undisputed miracle occurring before your eyes-a man with no hand growing one in the space of a minute before your eyes, etc.) do you think that would have an impact on the way you believe

Absolutely-- how could it not? A 100% grade A government-inspected miracle would rock my world and everyone else's, too.
The last time that I looked at the headlines, none have cropped up lately.

quote:

Is it possible that's how prostelytizing works-99.5% of the time it has no effect, it's that .5% of the time that all the rest of it is for? In my example, the television program is broadcast to the entire country, but only 1% of the people "get it"-see what I mean?

Certainly. You make good sense, but now I will counter-ask:
Is this what we see in the gospels and the acts of the apostles?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Good morning....Glad to see you are still here I will withhold my further interrogation until you have a little more time.....
Perhaps you have a new career....Talk show host or something like that

Ah, the lady of honor-- hello, Cherished.
No need to wait for my answer. I already answered you in post # 27 on this page {edited this to correct where I answered you}. Tell me what's on your mind . . .



Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 1:30:16 PM)

If you don’t mind I’d like to jump in here, to comment on these, for a moment:
1.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames
Of course the very basic question exists and has not been answered


Exactly. It's the old "Can a born-again believer ever truly lose their salvation?" conundrum.

2.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
I converted at age 11, and I was water baptized by the time I was a young adult in spite of the fact that I have always intellectually struggled with the bible and the gospel message.


Here is how I see these:
A relationship with God must start with our new birth because before that we are spiritually dead.
Once we have acknowledged Jesus as Lord and Savior and embrace water baptism, we are given the privilege to penetrate the veil where we see the face of God in the person of Jesus Christ (John 14:9, 2 Corinthians 4:6). We can see God and live for the simple reason that we have been buried with Christ in water baptism.

Christ is the covenant maker-the agreement is between Him and His Father, not between God and us. Hebrews 7:20-22 explains that the covenant between the Father and the Son is forever. This arrangement cannot and will not change. Jesus explains that “no one comes to the Father but through Me (John 14:6). This exclusive place of coming to God by means of Christ the Son is seen in Paul’s writing when he uses the phrase “in Christ” 88 times. Christ keeps the covenant on our behalf; we enter as participants of His grace and recipients of His Covenant faithfulness. No matter where we go or what we do, God will remain faithful to love, cultivate us out of our sin, and, if necessary, discipline us into the freedom of His Kingdom. In light of this, the Scripture, “I will never leave you nor forsake you” (Hebrews 13:5) can be seen as more of a threat than a promise. If we think we are going to escape God, we are mistaken. When He sets His covenant faithfulness on us, we only have two ways to go: the easy way or the hard way. As a yo-yo Christian and a backslider for several years, I can testify to the covenant faithfulness of God; He was faithful when I was not.

Hope this was of some help.

Pat



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 1:32:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Once we have acknowledged Jesus as Lord and Savior and embrace water baptism, we are given the privilege to penetrate the veil where we see the face of God in the person of Jesus Christ (John 14:9, 2 Corinthians 4:6). We can see God and live for the simple reason that we have been buried with Christ in water baptism.

For some reason, this was not my experience. Maybe the water wasn't wet enough . . . ?



Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 1:38:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Once we have acknowledged Jesus as Lord and Savior and embrace water baptism, we are given the privilege to penetrate the veil where we see the face of God in the person of Jesus Christ (John 14:9, 2 Corinthians 4:6). We can see God and live for the simple reason that we have been buried with Christ in water baptism.

For some reason, this was not my experience. Maybe the water wasn't wet enough . . . ?

I'm sure the water was wet enough... . Maybe you need to share what your experience was.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 1:44:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
I'm sure the water was wet enough... . Maybe you need to share what your experience was.

Well, it was a growth period beginning in my childhood church. Then at age 11, a televised Billy Graham crusade persuaded me to do the "sinner's prayer" and receive Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I did this whole-heartedly, btw. Then by age 22 ( I think), years of bible study persuaded me to become water baptised into Christ's death and resurrection.
I'm not sure what else you might mean by "experience": the heavens didn't open or anything. I have never been spiritually gifted in any clear, tangible way.

Is my answer sufficient, or would you like to know something more specific?



Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 2:00:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
I'm sure the water was wet enough... . Maybe you need to share what your experience was.

Well, it was a growth period beginning in my childhood church. Then at age 11, a televised Billy Graham crusade persuaded me to do the "sinner's prayer" and receive Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I did this whole-heartedly, btw. Then by age 22 ( I think), years of bible study persuaded me to become water baptised into Christ's death and resurrection.
I'm not sure what else you might mean by "experience": the heavens didn't open or anything. I have never been spiritually gifted in any clear, tangible way.

Is my answer sufficient, or would you like to know something more specific?

I was going to ask another guess but you answered it here along with this one as well.

Your answer is good in light of the question I was going to ask, but I still don't know what you mean by, "For some reason, this was not my experience." I guess I need to know something more specific in order to understand.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 2:04:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Ah, the lady of honor-- hello, Cherished.
No need to wait for my answer. I already answered you in post # 27 on this page {edited this to correct where I answered you}. Tell me what's on your mind . . .


Thank you for your kind comment. And BibleL7, thank you for yours, also.

Oh, much more on my mind[:D] But it will have to wait as I am so busy today...Besides, the Lord led me into a specific study regarding all this this AM and I need to study it some more to understand...

God is good. God is so good to me. God is so good to you.

Talk to you later[sm=car.gif]



rcjames -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 2:10:33 PM)

There are going to be billions of folks who will not believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and follwo the simple commands of the New Testament in the area of being born again;

(Joh 3:5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Joh 3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(Joh 3:7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

and producing the good fruits ordained from the foundation of the earth;

(Eph 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(Eph 2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

(Eph 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And unerstanding that if they do not walk in these good fruits that they just are not Children of God (Saved);

(1Jn 3:8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

(1Jn 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So simple, and so sad that billions will miss this truth.

Thanks
RC



Little_1 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 2:13:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Okay, as requested from another thread, let's discuss my apostasy.......


I don't know what has happened to bring you to this point in your life; also I don't know what the original thread was which started this one but I do want you to know that I am thinking about you 1dblthnk02.

P.S. I have not read any of the previous posts due to time.



Butterflytearz -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 2:39:49 PM)

Hi 1dblthnk02


I had to look up what apostate means,[:)]

Its one who turns away from a religion . Now are u turning away from the religion called Christianity or are you turning away from Christ?

Two completely different things,

For the Lord says :

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Now once you believe that then your journey begins and God promises he will not leave you comfortless but will send the Holy Spirit to be with you.

Baptism by water is not necessary,, it is the Baptism of Christ that is.

Here are some verses about the baptism Christ gives:

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

1Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Can you hear Jesus saying to you as he did to Peter,, Do you love me?

Even after denying christ three times God was with him and even blessed him as to be the one he will build his church on.

With God's fire and holy spirit Peter grew great in faith not religion.

The Spirit of God be you my friend.



4IMPersuaded -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 2:44:31 PM)

quote:

The whole thing. The whole meme of God creating a perfect world, and yet being unable to prevent it from becoming messed up-- or else he fully allowed it to get messed up-- and blaming us for the mess we are in . . . it just doesn't add up when we are talking about an omniscient, omnipotent being supposedly far superior to us.
Who's in charge here: Him or us? If it's us, then why didn't he create us better able to manage things?


I realize I am coming late to this party, but I couldn't stop reading. Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss your views with us. I am thrilled that you and athiestinpeace are interested in dialogue. I think it is so important to truly hear what is going on in the minds of those with whom we disagree. It is really unique to find individuals who are willing to discuss rather than argue.

In light of your quote... I have to say one thing. He created us to make a choice. Without that choice, our worship is meaningless. Sin is fun and pleasureable, let's face it-- it glorifies the self and feels good for the moment. If it didn't no one would do it and there would be no draw. The meaning in our relationship with God is in our answer to His call to each of us as individuals. Understanding that the Creator of the Universe is interested in our company is the overwhelming and stunning fact of salvation. In our humanity, it seems to us that He could have created a better product. I don't understand why he did it, but it is fine to think that. He can handle your disagreement-- in fact He invites the conversation.

I do beleive that the only "unpardonable sin" in our lifetime is to live out our years and deny the salvation of Christ into death. I do not beleive that once saved, you can lose your salvation because no one would willingly walk away from Jesus if you truly know Him. So, you still have time, in my opinion! The Holy Spirit will continue to call you to the Father through the saving blood of Jesus until you take your final breath. Jesus said that God the Father sent Him because He wished that none would perish.

I agree with others on this thread who have said in effect, my ability to make a logical argument will not likely convince you, but the Holy Spirit alone has the power to reveal the true nature of God to one who does not beleive.

Blessings-- I mean it![;)]



Butterflytearz -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 4:26:59 PM)

quote:

The whole thing. The whole meme of God creating a perfect world, and yet being unable to prevent it from becoming messed up-- or else he fully allowed it to get messed up-- and blaming us for the mess we are in . . . it just doesn't add up when we are talking about an omniscient, omnipotent being supposedly far superior to us.
Who's in charge here: Him or us? If it's us, then why didn't he create us better able to manage things?


Jeremiah 21:8 And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.

See its your choice,, God does not want feigned affection but true faith in Him and love for Him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 6:04:02 PM)

SonInMe1,

That was an incredibly touching post of yours! It blessed me so much!



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 9:09:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

Did you find the God of the Old Testatment to be congruent with the God of the New Testament?

God the Father, yes. God the Son, no.



Please....Can you explain this to me? I also wonder if the churches you were in encouraged you to really study the Life of Christ and to get to know Him on a personal level....and to develop a deep relationship with Him? Do you think you ever had that?

Also, your comments on evil, I can relate to. I need not share much but it has been a very difficult battle for me to comprehend (if one ever can) the whole concept of why God allows such things and all the other questions that go along with those most difficult questions. My faith actually failed me a number of years ago....It can be a battle, a real struggle for some of us, especially if we have grown up in hurtful situations...

Regarding the witnessing thing, I agree that so much damage has been done by "Christians" who misrepresent the Lord Jesus Christ. The first witnesses were with Jesus Christ of Nazareth 24 hours a day so they not only heard His words, they heard and saw His heart. They witnessed Him; His kindness, tender-mercies, love, forgiveness and, yes, His rebuke of the religious leaders of the day. Wuld that more of us would sit at the feet of Jesus, learning of Him and then go out and reflect Him to a lost and dying world before we even open our mouths to tell others about Him.........



makarizo -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 9:21:42 PM)

Okay.... I have thought of a question that I have no idea what the answer will be (or how it will be perceived)

where are you at on your spiritual journey?, when you die, what do you think is on the other side waiting for you? wouldn't you like to know for certain that you could spend an eternity in Heaven with Jesus?

1dblthnk02: these are for you



SonInMe1 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 9:23:57 PM)

quote:

verses like 2Peter 2:20-22, and a whole host of others refering to those who endure and remain faithful to the end. Do you not see a suggestion in those verses that an apostate Christian loses their salvation?
If not, why not?


Remaining faithful is not being perfect. Some will fall away for a time for various reasons. To me, however, true faith in Christ cannot die. Once "attained" it can't be taken away. There is nothing that can permently seperate us from God. We can distance ourselves, no doubt and some take this further than others but knowing God will always be something inside of you, bringing you back.

Remember, the prodigal son didn't come back for "spiritual" reasons. He came back because he was hungry. God will do that. He will birth something in a prodigal son to bring him back.

Hopefully this is why you are here.

I will be direct here and probably won't say this in the proper fashion so please excuse my poor wording....it might be possible you were never saved to begin with. You can know...about...God and be quite knowledgable...and not truly know God. You can do good works and be a "good" person..and not be saved.

It sounds like you knew a church experience more than you knew God. Of course, I can be wrong but it seems like your "conversion" really...wasn't something from you but possible an appeasement to either someone else or peer pressure?

A relationship with God is a personal one. Have you ever felt the Holy Spirit talking to you? Maybe not audibly or even the small quiet voice but somewhere deep inside of you...a conviction over an action? Not guilt from knowing you have done a wrong thing...but a nudge? A....if I do this thing, I offend the One I love...kinda thing?

quote:

I am a human being who makes mistakes and tries to learn from them.


So do christians. If there is one thing that angers me more than any other it is christians who say they do not sin. Believe me, we do. The difference is how we react to the sin. Forgiveness. Repentence and sanctification.

quote:

No one is impressed by people who go around wearing their religion on their sleeve. Outward piety and religious zeal doesn't turn anybody on except for the zealots themselves.


There is another thread about witnessing here and this makes the point I tried to illustrate in that thread. It was about some people who always wore Jesus on their sleeve to the point of being prideful about it and how that affected evangilism/witnessing. To be honest, many christians do this kind of witness because they are too lazy to really invest into someone to elad them to the Lord. Or...they are taught to do this witness in their churches...which to me is...counter productive.

I've actually done these things so...I can speak from some experience...[:D]

Obviously I am ill equpted to "intellectulaize" you back to God. I won't try. There are many books out there who try to prove God intellectually and while I believe God does prove Himself, facts will never make God definite to someone. Only faith will.

Miricles. They really happen every day. Even some pretty big ones have been documented...but...people believe what they want to believe and when faced with a miricle...they "believe" it away. True substantiated miricles right before their eyes and they don't believe in them. This happened in the bible a lot and it happens today as well.

quote:

SonInMe1,

That was an incredibly touching post of yours! It blessed me so much!


In my opinion, this just proves there is a God and who He is. For Him to touch people through someone like me is the greatest blessing one can recieve...and proves without a doubt God can do anything.

I have to say this again and I am sorry for repeating this as I am sure you have heard this a million times....but...

Jesus does love you. So very much.

When I got saved my mom told me her friends all thought I was impossible to save. From the way I lived I can't say I blame them.

It happened anyways. Anything is possible for God.



Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 8:20:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
I'm sure the water was wet enough... . Maybe you need to share what your experience was.

Well, it was a growth period beginning in my childhood church. Then at age 11, a televised Billy Graham crusade persuaded me to do the "sinner's prayer" and receive Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I did this whole-heartedly, btw. Then by age 22 ( I think), years of bible study persuaded me to become water baptised into Christ's death and resurrection.
I'm not sure what else you might mean by "experience": the heavens didn't open or anything. I have never been spiritually gifted in any clear, tangible way.

Is my answer sufficient, or would you like to know something more specific?


Because we must live in a less than perfect world, human failure, mistakes, injuries, disappointments, rejection, take their toll on us, often appearing and reappearing many years later. Failure, disappointment, or betrayal from any loved one, friend, or hero is always difficult to manage. We live in a fallen world. The result is unpredictable people and unfulfilled expectations. God often gets blamed for life not working out as we had expected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Is my answer sufficient, or would you like to know something more specific?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
I was going to ask another guess but you answered it here along with this one as well.

Your answer is good in light of the question I was going to ask, but I still don't know what you mean by, "For some reason, this was not my experience." I guess I need to know something more specific in order to understand.

Were you expecting something? Were your expectations injured? If so,What? How?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 10:20:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Your answer is good in light of the question I was going to ask, but I still don't know what you mean by, "For some reason, this was not my experience." I guess I need to know something more specific in order to understand.

Oh, I see. I was responding to your post (# 33) in which you twice refered to seeing God. I have never seen God, Jesus, angels, the Blessed Virgin, or any other sort of vision.
It is possible that you may have meant "see" in a more ethreal sense, as in seeing with the mind's eye. The problem with this kind of sight is that it can be very inaccurate. In my mind's eye, God becomes a old, robed white man with long white hair and beard sitting on his Zeus throne. I have long doubted that God actually looks like this, yet there is that image as vivid as ever-- I can still see him today.
Maybe this is why Paul said, "For we walk by faith, not by sight."

quote:

Were you expecting something? Were your expectations injured? If so,What? How?

I was expecting to know God, hear from God, live out that heavenly wisdom and strength in my life, walk a little taller than the unsaved as an example. I wanted to be like Jesus of Nazareth.
Needless to say, I didn't quite get there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Little_1
I do want you to know that I am thinking about you 1dblthnk02

Thank you, Little_1. I have received quite a bit of kindness like yours on this thread so far. I must admit I'm not used to it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Butterflytearz
Now are u turning away from the religion called Christianity or are you turning away from Christ?

Good question. I have turned away from the Christian religion, but this means that I have also turned away from the Christian concept of Jesus Christ, part of the Holy Trinity, etc. In fact, I separate Jesus of Nazareth from the Christian Jesus as two different things.

quote:

Can you hear Jesus saying to you as he did to Peter,, Do you love me?
Even after denying christ three times God was with him and even blessed him as to be the one he will build his church on.

Peter publically denied knowing Jesus after His arrest; he never denied his faith in Jesus on a personal level, at least not that I have ever seen in scripture.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4IMPersuaded
I have to say one thing. He created us to make a choice. Without that choice, our worship is meaningless.

Free will vs. predestination is another of those unresolvable issues in biblical theology. You see, if God gave us free will, why didn't he create us able to make good choices? And if we could make consistently good choices, then wouldn't we be like God ourselves? According to Gen.3:22 God didn't create us to know this level of free choice, but rather it came as a result of the Fall; "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil"

quote:

In our humanity, it seems to us that He could have created a better product. I don't understand why he did it, but it is fine to think that. He can handle your disagreement-- in fact He invites the conversation.

I have found over time that he doesn't have much to say to me about it.

quote:

I do not beleive that once saved, you can lose your salvation because no one would willingly walk away from Jesus if you truly know Him. So, you still have time, in my opinion!

Well, I did everything you are supposed to do in order to get to know him, but all I came up with was a whole lot of unanswered questions, and unanswered prayers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: doer
where are you at on your spiritual journey?, when you die, what do you think is on the other side waiting for you?

Good question. I do not believe in "the other side." This is it, and when my time is up, it's game over.

quote:

wouldn't you like to know for certain that you could spend an eternity in Heaven with Jesus?

It beats Hell. But, quite frankly, I would rather not exist at all.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 10:32:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Please....Can you explain this to me?

The new testament validated the old law. God the Father still remained a thundering voice from heaven. Godly visions still took place on mountaintops, i.e. the Mount of Transfiguration. IOW, the Old Man in the Sky didn't change.
But Jesus of Nazareth had a radical approach to the old law. He endorsed it, yet he oftentimes took liberties with it: works on the Sabbath, not stoning an adulteress, retooling the Mosaic law concerning marriage, and many other examples. His faith went beyond faith in the laws of God; he claimed to be the laws of God fulfilled.

quote:

I also wonder if the churches you were in encouraged you to really study the Life of Christ and to get to know Him on a personal level

Oh yes, and this usually involved levels of behavior that looked like clinical hysteria to me. I am not hysterical.
I'm not even funny . . . (that was a joke, btw-- see what I mean?)

quote:

I need not share much but it has been a very difficult battle for me to comprehend (if one ever can) the whole concept of why God allows such things and all the other questions that go along with those most difficult questions.

That is why I want you to be careful discussing these questions with me. If your faith is doing fine, then don't rock the boat too much.

quote:

Regarding the witnessing thing, I agree that so much damage has been done by "Christians" who misrepresent the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think that many of them are truly sincere. And there is the Great Commission right there in scripture. What does someone like me do about that? If I just ignored it, what kind of Christian would I be?



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI