RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this

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Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 11:40:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Okay, as requested from another thread, let's discuss my apostacy. CherishedbyGod, Let me start by saying that I hope you are entering into this topic cautiously. I do not want to persuade you or any other Christian (or people of other faiths, for that matter) to follow my example. Dropping the baggage of one's own religion is a very personal choice that one must make very, very carefully. I had to be sure, and it took time. However, I also believe the same thing about entering into a religion. Thus, I did not proselytize as a Christian; that's one of the many reasons why a made a lousy one. But as far as I'm concerned, choices about religion should be personal and uncoerced by fear or other emotions. Second, it would facilitate our discussion more if I waited to simply answer whatever questions are paramount in your mind. Besides, I don't really know where to begin! In truth, I have been in several churches of various sizes and denominations, including so-called non-denominational groups. I was never Roman Catholic, or Orthodox for that matter. I have always leaned towards Evangelicalism, although I have looked into the fringe groups a few times (LDS, Watchtower, etc.) Me thinkest you have Not Dropped all the Baggage from all the places you've been. As you said, "Dropping the baggage of one's own religion". For one thing Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who is taking us to His Father, the God of gods. It is important to understand that heaven is not the goal. If you are a Christian and you die, you have to go to heaven, there is no place else to go! I believe in heaven---it is real and beautiful. It is everything and more than we could imagine. But, many people have mistakenly made heaven to be the goal or the object of their life. There is life after being born again. God, as a Father, wants to know us (I Corinthians 8:3) and longs for us to know Him in this present life on earth. Personally I think if you get rid of ALL the Baggage and get back to where you left your faith, and get some straight teaching under your belt, you have the makings of a giant fighter; a twenty-first century Caleb [Numbers 13:30, and, 14:24]. Nonetheless, Until you lose the baggage you're carrying; and get back to where you left your faith (Revelation 2:4) --- you didn't lose it you left it, and what you left you can go back and get; I'm afraid nothing I can possibly say will do any good.

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 1:42:38 PM)
quote: I think that many of them are truly sincere. And there is the Great Commission right there in scripture. What does someone like me do about that? If I just ignored it, what kind of Christian would I be? Maybe you have some baggage here too?? Ephesians 4:11 & 12, It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up. (New International Version) Not everyone has been Called to be these [8\|] things; some have been called to be Homemakers, Trash Collector, Doctors, Bus Drivers, .... and on and on to every type working skill and craft that there is a need for in this world --- The Great Commission can be and is being fulfilled in each and everyone of these. 1 Thessalonians 4:11 says, "Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you;" And 1 Peter 3:15 says, " But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you* to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"*

CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 5:00:56 PM)
I think I ran him off[>:] The last thing I wanted to do was to offend him[:(]

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 5:54:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 quote: ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady Were you expecting something? Were your expectations injured? If so,What? How? ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 I was expecting to know God, hear from God, live out that heavenly wisdom and strength in my life, walk a little taller than the unsaved as an example. I wanted to be like Jesus of Nazareth. Needless to say, I didn't quite get there. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod Please....Can you explain this to me? The new testament validated the old law. God the Father still remained a thundering voice from heaven. Godly visions still took place on mountaintops, i.e. the Mount of Transfiguration. IOW, the Old Man in the Sky didn't change. But Jesus of Nazareth had a radical approach to the old law. He endorsed it, yet he oftentimes took liberties with it: works on the Sabbath, not stoning an adulteress, retooling the Mosaic law concerning marriage, and many other examples. His faith went beyond faith in the laws of God; he claimed to be the laws of God fulfilled. You must choose to believe that Christ is indeed God’s Son who died for your personal rebellion and sin. You will never be convinced or have peace with God any other way. No overwhelming proof will come your way before you make your decision. The peace and assurance can only come after you have decided to trust God’s Word in the midst of uncertainty. That is faith. Acquaint yourself with God’s Word on the matter. God’s part is already an established fact, done and sealed by Christ on the cross. The condition left up to us is that we turn from our efforts at saving ourselves, admit our rebellion (sin), accept Christ as our Savior as well as our Lord and Master. This makes us eligible for another promise: Those who believe in Christ will receive the right to become children of God (John 1:2). If we do our part of the condition---cling to, rely on, trust and believe in Jesus Christ, we can be absolutely certain that God has done His. We have His Word on it. But we can also be certain that our sense of security and peace in God can only come after a period of serious doubt and questioning.

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 6:02:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod I think I ran him off[>:] The last thing I wanted to do was to offend him[:(] No you didn't, if he wants to hear truth he'll be back, you didn't say anything I wasn't thinking/wondering myself. I think you've done great in commutating on this subject, but he hasn't made it easy either.

blue1914 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 7:44:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Thanks for asking, and remember to vote Democrat! . . . JUST KIDDING Actually, this election cycle, I was planning to do so-not because I happen to be a Democrat (and I'm one of the crazy Christians who believe you can be one without losing your salvation) but because, for this election cycle I believe (Christianese alert)-IT'S WHAT GOD WOULD HAVE ME TO DO (and for many of my more conservative brothers and sisters, I know that I just threw bloody chum into the water-I know some of you are chomping at the bit to let me know just how wrong I am in your eyes so here are the ground rules-if you want to rip me up one side and down the other, I am happy to give you the opportunity but not on this thread-PM me and I will meet you in the Current Events folder and you can tell me all about how big an idiot you feel me to be, but I will NOT reply to any comments on this thread about the statement I just made). quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Absolutely-- how could it not? A 100% grade A government-inspected miracle would rock my world and everyone else's, too. The last time that I looked at the headlines, none have cropped up lately. I don't know-it's interesting the phrasing you use also-a grade A "government inspected" miracle. You see, I have seen one of them-my father wore glasses all of his life until about his late 20's I believe. He was healed by the power of prayer to 20/20 vision-and that of course has to be government inspected since he operates a car (they give you a test at the DMV each year and if you need glasses, they give you and endorsement on your license). He hasn't had an endoresement since he was healed. That said, sometimes even I have struggles with faith-it would appear that a miracle such as that would make me a believer for all time. I guess my point is that even "walking by sight" at times requires a good amount of faith-my dad's miracle aside, I have been blessed by many things in my life I would call a miracle-and while at times they strengthen my faith, I still struggle with faith at times. I think that's why Jesus told the story about Lazarus and the Rich Man-remember the Rich Man wanted to go back to his brothers because they would believe if they saw a person raised from the dead. He was told that he could not-if faith in the law and the prophets would not cause the brothers to believe, nothing else would either. I guess the thing I come away with is that faith is just that-faith but it is not unfounded-even though I can't always see the "result" of my faith (tangible proof), tangible proof (in my life anyway) doesn't always generate faith-in some cases, it just raises more questions (was this a conincidence, am I trying to manufacture something, etc. etc.) so I must return to faith standing on it's own. What do you think? quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 & blue1914 "Is it possible that's how prostelytizing works-99.5% of the time it has no effect, it's that .5% of the time that all the rest of it is for? In my example, the television program is broadcast to the entire country, but only 1% of the people "get it"-see what I mean?" Certainly. You make good sense, but now I will counter-ask: Is this what we see in the gospels and the acts of the apostles? Actually, I do see exactly that in the gospels and the acts of the apostles. You see, Jesus said it best "Many are called but few are chosen". The Bible tells us that "He would that NONE should perish but that all would come to repentance". That's the "many"-the message goes out to a lot of people, but as Jesus said, only a few really get a real understanding of the message. He punctuates this with the parable of the seed and the sower-some falls on rocky ground, some falls in weeds, some falls in shallow ground, some falls in good soil. It's the good soil that grows a crop-but you see, there are so MANY other places than good soil that the seed falls into. As far as the Acts, etc. The stories in Acts are stories of the successes-of course you will see mass conversions, etc. recorded-that's what the book is about-that said, for the thousands of recorded conversions, how many others heard the message and were not convinced at all? Remember, in the time of Acts, Romans, etc etc. being a Christian meant that you were subject to being killed-sounds to me like they were a distinct minority. I waded in becuse I sensed that you are the type that enjoys a good (though civil) give and take idea flow. I tend to really enjoy that myself, so please do forgive me if I have misread you and please do forgive me if I have offended you in any way-it is far from my intention. I look forward to any response you may have, thanks!

CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 8:47:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod I think I ran him off[>:] The last thing I wanted to do was to offend him[:(] No you didn't, if he wants to hear truth he'll be back, you didn't say anything I wasn't thinking/wondering myself. I think you've done great in commutating on this subject, but he hasn't made it easy either. Yes, I did...I offended him. My heart tells me that... My heart is so broken over this....The last thing he needed was to hear something condemning. I am so sad over this. I sense he has been really hurt somewhere along life's journey that's all...I think he did a great job responding to us. We all put up walls around our hearts and he has had a difficult struggle with the issue of evil which I so understand... I have been crying all afternoon over it........

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 8:56:28 PM)
quote: My heart is so broken over this.... I have been crying all afternoon over it........ I'm sorry to hear this; I'll be praying for you. God bless, Pat

CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 8:58:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 quote: ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady Were you expecting something? Were your expectations injured? If so,What? How? ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 I was expecting to know God, hear from God, live out that heavenly wisdom and strength in my life, walk a little taller than the unsaved as an example. I wanted to be like Jesus of Nazareth. Needless to say, I didn't quite get there. I didn't even see this post. Now I feel even worse[:(]

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 10:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 In truth, I have been in several churches of various sizes and denominations, including so-called non-denominational groups. ... I have always leaned towards Evangelicalism, I've done this too; here's my story: Have I ever gotten angry at my Heavenly Father, God? Did you ever get angry with your flesh and blood father? Well, I did; on more then one occasion. The Last time I got angry with God, I was so... angry, I took every book, tape, picture, piece of jewelry, along with every piece of literature I could find, including My Bible, out to the Burning Barrel. I didn't ever want to hear of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or see Anything in my house that would remind me of them again. I Got Angry and Quit!! I said, "It's Not fair that You won't answer my prayer in this; So forget it! It's all a lie. You don't love me! It's just one big joke on me! Everybody else has a Home Church; Why Not ME? Can't You see, Can't You understand; I'm lonely? I just can't believe You Love Me! Haven't I tried? Haven't I looked? It must be true, You just Don't Love Me.!" So I set fire to everything, which would remind me of Him. And as I did, My Heart Broke; For I Loved Him So Much; And I cried. I sat on those back steps of ours; and I cried. Heart Wrenching, Body Shaking Groans, Sobs, and Tears of pure anguish and distress. But.... Out of the midst of the storm came God's Word, "Peace Be Still! Though Heaven and earth shall pass away? My Word shall never pass away. For I have put my laws in your mind and written them on your heart. For you are my child. Be Still and know that I Am God. All things are possible, Only Believe." And I knew this was truth. Once again I confessed my lack of understanding of His ways and my selfishness of wanting my way, my desire, in my timing. Once again I knew He had everything under His control, for His purpose (Our profit ... one day.) and once again, I knew He loved me!! Once again, I put my life, trust, faith in Him and His Word! Oh Yes, I've thrown my share of temper tantrums, and when I have, I've been the most miserable person this side of Hell! Have you ever failed at anything; thrown in the towel; given up? Have you ever felt like you failed 3rd grade 17 times? I Have... And The Pain of it is beyond description! I've failed so much so, that I've been almost too embarrassed and ashamed to ask for forgiveness again... But I have, because I Know He is the only one who can forgive me and make me whole again; and He is the only one who can reason with the hearts of those I've hurt, so that they too can find forgiveness for me; for their healing from bitterness. Pat

Lufia -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 10:59:55 PM)
What a great testimony! Amen and God bless you Pat

1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/18/2008 11:23:22 PM)
All, Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. I haven't been run off in any way, shape, or form. It's just that I seem to not have adequate time to post these days-- and just as things were getting good! But I will get back to it when I have some real time to answer everyone I have not yet answered. Stay tuned . . .

1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 8:53:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Remember, the prodigal son didn't come back for "spiritual" reasons. He came back because he was hungry. God will do that. He will birth something in a prodigal son to bring him back. Hopefully this is why you are here. Well, I don't seem to go away, do I. That is why I don't blame SuspenseWriter (post # 11, first page) for being incredulous of me. If I am done, then what am I still doing here? I'm like a ghost who haunts Christians instead of moving on. I must admit that I don't have any cleaner of an answer than to say, "I like being here." quote: I will be direct here and probably won't say this in the proper fashion so please excuse my poor wording....it might be possible you were never saved to begin with. You can know...about...God and be quite knowledgable...and not truly know God. Well, I have considered this possibility. You may be right. But I thought that a sincere heart would find God, but maybe it's tougher than that. quote: Of course, I can be wrong but it seems like your "conversion" really...wasn't something from you but possible an appeasement to either someone else or peer pressure? No, that was a very personal moment for me. In fact, the church that I was involved with at the time (Church of Christ) probably would have been incredulous of a child's autonomous response to a Billy Graham sermon. Maybe rightly so. quote: A relationship with God is a personal one. Have you ever felt the Holy Spirit talking to you? We have words in the common vernacular that actually describe this: inspiration, ingénue, enthusiasm, etc. And, yes, I have felt these things. But all humans tend to experience these moments regardless of their faith. I had one experience that was very much like an Acts 2 kind of thing, but I was high on mescaline at the time . . . not one of the smarter puerile things I have ever done. quote: Maybe not audibly or even the small quiet voice but somewhere deep inside of you...a conviction over an action? Not guilt from knowing you have done a wrong thing...but a nudge? A....if I do this thing, I offend the One I love...kinda thing? Sure, but doesn't everyone (except for sociopaths)? It's called a conscience. quote: If there is one thing that angers me more than any other it is christians who say they do not sin. I have never met a Christian who says that they do not sin, but I sure have met some whose attitudes seemed to indicate that they wanted everyone else to think that they were above sin. quote: The difference is how we react to the sin. Forgiveness. Repentence and sanctification. . . . The basics of the gospel. Are you a preacher, by chance? You'd probably be a good one. quote: To be honest, many christians do this kind of witness because they are too lazy to really invest into someone to elad them to the Lord. Or...they are taught to do this witness in their churches...which to me is...counter productive. The ones that impressed me the most were the ones who didn't take to the streets or people's doorsteps, but rather those who were openly Christian in the workplace, in the marketplace, etc. They didn't get up on soapboxes and preach, but rather they shared their faith one-on-one and would punctuate it with something akin to, "Is there anything you would like me to pray with you about?" They were all women, too, btw. quote: I've actually done these things so...I can speak from some experience... Me, too, believe it or not. quote: There are many books out there who try to prove God intellectually and while I believe God does prove Himself, facts will never make God definite to someone. Only faith will. But facts would help . . . (another little joke there). Seriously, I don't know why there is field called "apologetics," but not one called "celebretics" wherein Christian miracles and scriptural confirmations are multitudinous and documented, thus dispelling the need for apologetics. quote: Miricles. They really happen every day. Even some pretty big ones have been documented Not really. There are many stories and allegations, but none that I know of are verifiable (or even falsifiable for that matter). We have many, many visions, sightings, prophecies, and personal testimonies, but no confirmed blind-eyes-see, missing-limbs-grow-back, cripples-walk, dead-are-raised-type miracles. I mean, I have watched Benny Hinn, and the Lakeland "outpouring," etc. Sorry, but there's nothing to see here, folks-- not as far as I'm concerned.

1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 9:35:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blue1914 I don't know-it's interesting the phrasing you use also-a grade A "government inspected" miracle. It's just a colloquialism. Government-inspected actually means very little to me. If the government was so good at inspecting, maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess in Iraq today. quote: He hasn't had an endoresement since he was healed. Well, a good place to start would be his eye exam records before the prayer, some confirmation of when the prayer took place, and then confirm the changes at another eye exam. As a control, it would also help to investigate other instances of sponatenous eye regeneration just in case these kinds of things also happen regardless of prayer. quote: He was told that he could not-if faith in the law and the prophets would not cause the brothers to believe, nothing else would either. I think that Jesus' point was, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" refering to his own death and resurrection. Pharisees didn't really believe in God's word, therefore they did not believe in Jesus, either-- even though he would rise from the grave. quote: I guess the thing I come away with is that faith is just that-faith but it is not unfounded-even though I can't always see the "result" of my faith (tangible proof), tangible proof (in my life anyway) doesn't always generate faith-in some cases, it just raises more questions (was this a conincidence, am I trying to manufacture something, etc. etc.) so I must return to faith standing on it's own. What do you think? I think that you are right. The leap-of-faith can also be foolhardy. People can believe in literally anything. When encountering unanswerable objections or paradoxes offensive to reason, one can still fall back on, "I still have faith." This why many "true believers" continue to follow bogus religious movements even when the leaders of these movements are proven to be charlatans: "I don't care what people say, I still have faith." As Mark Twain once said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." Otherwise it wouldn't be faith, would it. quote: The stories in Acts are stories of the successes-of course you will see mass conversions, etc. recorded-that's what the book is about-that said, for the thousands of recorded conversions, how many others heard the message and were not convinced at all? True. And even back in the 6th chapter of John's gospel you see people turning from Jesus en masse. But John's gospel also stated that they followed him because of his wonder-working. It was his teachings that offended them. I might be in that same boat. quote: I waded in becuse I sensed that you are the type that enjoys a good (though civil) give and take idea flow. . . . Even uncivil. I'm a jerk when prodded. But, yes, I do love the open exchange of ideas. This forum does facilitate that quite well for the most part. quote: I tend to really enjoy that myself, so please do forgive me if I have misread you and please do forgive me if I have offended you in any way-it is far from my intention. I look forward to any response you may have, thanks! Thank you. You are a decent chap . . . or chapstress? I'm not sure whether you are male or female (remember when everyone used to say that to hippies? You do if you're old . . . )

1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 9:57:42 AM)
Alright, Pat-rebel_lady-- I think I am ready for you now. Let's get down to business, eh? quote: For one thing Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who is taking us to His Father, the God of gods. All religions are personal relationships with deities. I don't know of any religion wherein there was no relationship with a diety, dieties, or spiritual beings of some kind. If there is not, then what you have is more of a philosophy than a religion. quote: Personally I think if you get rid of ALL the Baggage and get back to where you left your faith, and get some straight teaching under your belt, you have the makings of a giant fighter; a twenty-first century Caleb [Numbers 13:30, and, 14:24]. Thank you for the compliment. But who are these folks who have the straight teaching that I must get under my belt? I'll tell you: they all do. Just ask them. They all have the real deal right there in their particular organization or denomination. Everyone else is wrong, you know. The Holy Spirit graced only those select folks of that particular set of doctrines with the truth. You see, it turns out that God is a respecter of persons, and the Holy Spirit does not lead all Christians into all truth, and apparently Christ did not truly want all of his followers to be one. This is baggage. The whole idea that you have to "get it right" and get under the "correct" discipleship is baggage. Who can possibly get to the truth when literally everyone is so blasted right? quote: You must choose to believe that Christ is indeed God’s Son who died for your personal rebellion and sin. You will never be convinced or have peace with God any other way. No overwhelming proof will come your way before you make your decision. Well, I have found that conviction and peace remain elusive even after I made my decision. That is why I changed my mind in the first place. Btw, I liked your testimony. It is a very honest, compelling account of your ability to remain true to yourself and your God inspite of yourself. I do admire that. Just to be clear, I am not angry with God. I am jaded toward life in general, and I am skeptical about anything that asks me to believe anything, but I am not angry. I used to watch the X Files. The main character, Fox Mulder, had this poster behind his desk that showed a blown-up photo of an alleged flying saucer, and bold faced words under it that read, "I want to believe." I do not want to believe. I am a skeptic: I want to be shown. I want to be convinced. I would think that if I am expected to gamble my only life on this earth, the least that I could be granted is a little something substantive to go on.

1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 10:10:09 AM)
Okay, Virginia-- It's your turn. Dry those tears and let us know that you are still kicking.

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 12:20:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Alright, Pat-rebel_lady-- I think I am ready for you now. Let's get down to business, eh? quote: Well, I have found that conviction and peace remain elusive even after I made my decision. That is why I changed my mind in the first place. I'm sorry to hear that! In light of this [8\|] I have to agree with SonInMe1 here [&o]: quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 I will be direct here and probably won't say this in the proper fashion so please excuse my poor wording....it might be possible you were never saved to begin with. You can know...about...God and be quite knowledgable...and not truly know God. You can do good works and be a "good" person..and not be saved. So since I've not been called to be a apostles, prophet, evangelist, pastor, or teacher; I now bow out of this attempt at fellowshipping together ; we don't have the same mind (Romans 12:16). None-the- less, I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Pat BTW, Thank you for this: quote: Btw, I liked your testimony. It is a very honest, compelling account of your ability to remain true to yourself and your God inspite of yourself. I do admire that.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 1:48:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Okay, Virginia-- It's your turn. Dry those tears and let us know that you are still kicking. [sm=icon_smile_blush.gif] I must admit I am afraid to post anything for fear of offending you[&:] But, nevertheless.......... Mike, God has "Mine" written all over your forehead. That is why you still "hang" with Christians. You "like being here" because you belong here[;)] He took quite seriously that decision you made during the Billy Graham Crusade. He took very seriously all your attempts to draw closer to Him; your desire to want to hear Him and to be like Jesus Christ of Nazareth. There is no greater aspiration than to be like our Jesus. You have put that wall up around your heart because you have been hurt; perhaps deeply and repeatedly. I know, I see it, I have been there, I still have part of the wall around my heart.... I understand people tellling you to "make a choice" or "make a decision" but you have been there way too long and you doing and you being did not work out even tho it appears you tried very hard. So let's turn the focus on Him, can we? For before we even have the slightest inkling towards Him, He has long since had us on His great heart of love and affection. For He loves you dearly and no matter how much you don't want to believe does not in the slightest change that. No church, denomination, religion has all the answers...But the Lord Jesus Christ is the answer. You say here: "Well, I have considered this possibility. You may be right. But I thought that a sincere heart would find God, but maybe it's tougher than that" I have no doubt about the sincerity of your precious child's heart. But instead of it being tough, I say it is the simpliest thing a person can do...so somewhere along the line you were greatly ripped off and you were convinced that, what should be so simple and easy, you had to work for, or please God or "become" instead of just learning and believing more and more of God and His love for you and having a relatlionship with God develop from there.... If it is not too much to ask can you tell me what you see (saw) in Jesus Christ of Nazareth that made you want to be like Him? And believe me, He still wants for you to be able to hear Him and experience His prescence and for you to walk and talk with Him. That dream may have died in your heart but it is still very much alive in His... P.S. Perhaps I passed you in Haight Ashbury back .......in those days[;)][:D]

blue1914 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 4:08:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod Mike, God has "Mine" written all over your forehead. That is why you still "hang" with Christians. You know Cherished, that was just what I was thinking a little earlier when I was thinking and praying a little about this thread. 1dblthnk02, you often refer to your apostasy and instead what I see in your words is a wrestle WITH faith, not a rejection of it-you want answers of a tangible nature to believe what you have been taught (and I also believe you have come to know) to be true-and until you get them, you can continue to "reject" what you know to be true since it's pretty ethereal anyway. It's not a true rejection per se but much more a "challenge". You keep asking the question (and some in this thread have asked it for you as well) if either A: You can return to Christ or B: Were you ever saved in the first place. The question that comes to my mind is instead what the Lord will do to cement the faith that He has put within you already (and in turn reveal to you what He has already done-transform your heart)-if you had no faith (though you challenge it), we here would be pretty poor company for you-you strike me as far too intelligent to simply come to a group such as this for the purposes of mere entertainment through antagonism-challenge, yes, "poking fun"-you just don't seem the type. quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod No church, denomination, religion has all the answers...But the Lord Jesus Christ is the answer. You say here: "Well, I have considered this possibility. You may be right. But I thought that a sincere heart would find God, but maybe it's tougher than that" I've got to admit, I abhor those who will recommend a book of any form and this one was no exception when I originally received it as a recommendation-then I read it and it really opened up many new ways to look at God for me. The book is "The Shack" by William P. Young (and again, I know there is a lot of controversy about the book among evangelicals so again, not going to respond to a post about the book in this thread, if you want to talk to me about what an idiot I am for reading it and how I am leading someone astray by recommending it to them, again, PM me and I will meet you in the Book channel and you can vent your spleen). Because it's difficult to find time to read books, my in a nutshell summary of it is this-A man not TOO far away from where you are now (always been told about God, had a good "knowledge" of Him but a healthy skepticism that He was who He said He was) was drawn to a weekend in the woods where he camped face to face with God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. In that weekend, He journeyed from skepticism to full faith in the love of God-partly because of the tangible signs he saw, but much more from gaining a true understanding of who God is. I will admit that the book is fiction, but it's one of the most poignant examples of the love of God that I have ever seen. The irony for those who oppose it is that its message is almost to opposite to the doctrines of many mainline Protestant denominations. Yup, those who have it "right" will tell you that this close to "blasphemous" book will do nothing but confuse you. For me, it affirmed much of what God has shown me about who He is-and yes, in some ways it runs completely counter to the dictates of several denominations (and non-denominations) that I have participated in past and present. The good news is that I have yet to find in the Bible where my denomination tag will be checked before I gain entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 True. And even back in the 6th chapter of John's gospel you see people turning from Jesus en masse. But John's gospel also stated that they followed him because of his wonder-working. It was his teachings that offended them. I might be in that same boat. You know, I can relate to this statement. So many times I have asked for wonderous signs as surrogates when I am low on faith-and to be honest, I've received them in a very real way-for me, they have occurred in such a meaningful way that I can only know it to be God-and for that moment, I am "wax strong and full of faith" so to speak-you can't tell me anything negative about God, I know what I believe, etc. etc.-until I wake up the next morning. You see, I think that's why Jesus told us that we would have to take up our cross daily and follow Him-a miracle is only miraculous for the time it has an effect (and I say that as one who indeed has seen things that I can only attribute to the miraculous-in my life and the lives of people around me)-and that time can be short as you point out using the example from the Word of God. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Thank you. You are a decent chap . . . or chapstress? I'm not sure whether you are male or female (remember when everyone used to say that to hippies? You do if you're old . . . ) Thank you for a stimulating discourse-you too are a decent chap (I'm assuming chap since I've seen some address you by a male name). I am a man, but I hate to say I was probably less than the beginnings of a thought when hippies were commonplace-though I sometimes feel twice as old as I am! I hope you'll come back often, I thank you for your openness and honesty and I've really enjoyed talking with you!

1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 6:40:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady So since I've not been called to be a apostles, prophet, evangelist, pastor, or teacher; I now bow out of this attempt at fellowshipping together ; we don't have the same mind (Romans 12:16). None-the- less, I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Pat Good enough. And thank you for input: don't think it was all in vain. You have very good Christian counseling skills. quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod I must admit I am afraid to post anything for fear of offending you lol! You're so sweet . . . you actually made me laugh. That's not easy to do, either. Once you get to know me a little better, then you will realize that tip-toeing on eggshells around my sensitivities is a bit like trying to mind your table manners at a hog's trough. I appreciate your tender heart, but rest assured that no one can offend me enough to send me running. I can take whatever anyone, especially you, has to say to me. Post freely, my dear. quote: God has "Mine" written all over your forehead. You mean that's not a birthmark? Sorry . . . go on: quote: That is why you still "hang" with Christians. You "like being here" because you belong here Well, you are right in many respects. I still know what I know about the bible. I can still talk the talk even if I don't walk the walk. Whom else but other Christians could I do this with? quote: You have put that wall up around your heart because you have been hurt; perhaps deeply and repeatedly. I know, I see it, I have been there, I still have part of the wall around my heart Well, perhaps you can tell me what happened-- but only if it isn't too painful to recall. I don't want you shedding any more tears as a result of our dialogue. quote: I have no doubt about the sincerity of your precious child's heart. But instead of it being tough, I say it is the simpliest thing a person can do I really think that it should be simple. I mean, if we can't come straight to Christ, then why did he let everybody else do it in the gospels? quote: so somewhere along the line you were greatly ripped off and you were convinced that, what should be so simple and easy, you had to work for Well, quite frankly, doubt crept in. There's an anecdote that I heard (where, I don't know) about a ten-year-old boy who, upon learning from another child that there is no Santa Clause, confronted his parents whereupon they confessed the truth. The boy replied, "Uh huh-- now, I'm going to look into this Jesus Christ business . . ." When a boy starts to become a man, he begins to put away childish things. Paul said something very similar in 1Corinthians 13. When I started to get into adolescence, I realized that I didn't really know anything about the world. I realized that my child-like faith was just that: child-like. Jesus admonished such faith, but how foundational can it be in the face of an adult world full of adult realities, reason, unanswerable questions, and evidence that doesn't weigh in favor of your faith? All you can do is say, "Well, no matter what anybody says, I still believe." This is called the blind faith of a true believer. I'm just not capable of this. So, I set about trying for many years to rationalize my faith. I finally gave up because I just can't do it, try though I may. I got no help from above, no special revelation of any kind, no Holy Spirit giving me the words, and so forth. I came up empty. I am not saying this to dash anyone's hopes or invalidate anyone else's experience. I am just saying that this is what happened with me. quote: If it is not too much to ask can you tell me what you see (saw) in Jesus Christ of Nazareth that made you want to be like Him? The dynamics of his character jumped right off of the pages of my bible. He impressed people just by his very being. Some thought that he was crazy while others thought he was evil, but many more were drawn closer to God because he could just do that. He was a simple man, too. He was unpretentious, and rather than associate with the upper crust of Judea, he chose instead to hang out with fishermen and tax collectors. He had the goods. quote: P.S. Perhaps I passed you in Haight Ashbury back .......in those days Not likely; I've never been there. And I was pretty young back in those days. But I still remember . . .

ladyichigo -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 7:19:46 PM)
Cherished: God bless your heart! [sm=heart.gif] You have said the very things that have been placed on my heart! May Christ's love continue to shine through your beautiful soul, and may He continue to speak His love through your heart and lips. I believe the Lord is using you to share and express your faith in ways that I am unable to as I lack the words. You are doing the very thing that my heart desires to do. I just cannot express them in words and it has been so frustrating. So, I will be praying for you in support as you go on and reach out to those who have lost their way.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 7:26:29 PM)
How do I do that quote thing and make it look all neat and tidy like you all do? If I am going to carry on in this joyful pursuit of this man's soul I want it to look neat. Anybody? Just one comment that I can not resist before I await an answer.... My forum friend, Some people in the gospels came to Jesus and asked Him what they must do to inherit eternal life. I think of the rich young ruler, for instance....he came to Jesus and Jesus ~beholding him, loved him~ but, in this case Jesus gave specifics of what he needed to do. The rich young ruler left....and Jesus let him go. I cannot prove it, but I believe the man eventually returned to Jesus. Don't ask me why I posted that....I don't know BTW, the scripture verse in my signature, He told me to give to you this morning....Take it...It is yours.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 7:34:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ladyichigo Cherished: God bless your heart! [sm=heart.gif] You have said the very things that have been placed on my heart! May Christ's love continue to shine through your beautiful soul, and may He continue to speak His love through your heart and lips. I believe the Lord is using you to share and express your faith in ways that I am unable to as I lack the words. You are doing the very thing that my heart desires to do. I just cannot express them in words and it has been so frustrating. So, I will be praying for you in support as you go on and reach out to those who have lost their way. Crying again.... I so needed that. You will never know. Thank you, so very much...thank you. And yes, please, please pray. That is more important than anything....

ladyichigo -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 7:34:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod How do I do that quote thing and make it look all neat and tidy like you all do? If I am going to carry on in this joyful pursuit of this man's soul I want it to look neat. Anybody? Use brackets [...] around the word "quote" to quote the part you want to quote. then end with [/] around the word "quote". Here's an example using parantheses (in place of the brackets): (quote)Twinkle twinkle little stars (/quote) It should come out like quote: Twinkle twinkle little stars

SonInMe1 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/19/2008 9:15:38 PM)
quote: So since I've not been called to be a apostles, prophet, evangelist, pastor, or teacher; I now bow out of this attempt at fellowshipping together ; we don't have the same mind (Romans 12:16). None-the- less, I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I am not sure what this means since my comments you commented upon were not directed at you. Is there a problem with what I siad... quote: I will be direct here and probably won't say this in the proper fashion so please excuse my poor wording....it might be possible you were never saved to begin with. You can know...about...God and be quite knowledgable...and not truly know God. You can do good works and be a "good" person..and not be saved. quote: we don't have the same mind (Romans 12:16). None-the- less, I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. This disturbs me. Its...accusatory.

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