Let's talk about hypocrisy (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Faith] >> General Faith >> FaithWalk - Protestants Only



Message

Liveloved -> Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/16/2008 1:24:33 PM)

Other threads have asked about hypocrisy and I'm certainly not trying to hijack another thread. But this morning's reading/meditating has me wanting to discuss this topic. The scripture I've been reading is Matthew 15:1-9.
Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem, saying, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
And He answered and said to them, "And why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother, and he who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death.'
But you say, 'Whoever shall say to his father or mother, "anything of mine you might have been helped by has been given to God,"
he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
'This people honors me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from me.
But in vain do they worship me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'"


I think it is easy (and wrong) to categorize the scribes and Pharisees as rule makers/keepers and the 'bad guys'. What they were were men who were serious about God, pursuing Him and the knowledge of Him. This is no different than those who do the same today---could it be 'us' He is referring to?

And Jesus makes it clear (to me) in this passage that hypocrisy is an attainment of knowledge of God which we can easily and eagerly talk about and attempt (and quite successfully) live out but the inner person of the heart has not been changed. We are controlling the changes but they are outward changes and not of the Spirit. They are not what Jesus and life in Him is ultimately about.

So, if you're willing, explore hypocrisy with me. And specifically, how do you know you are not a hypocrite? a seeker of knowledge about God (head knowledge) but without the necessary heart transforming changes? If you are changing, is it about your doing? or His? how much similarity do you see between yourself and those called Pharisees?



deliveredarling -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 8:28:09 AM)

No, I don't see myself as a hypocrite. I practice what I preach. In that statement alone is the difference. Preaching something and then not adhering to the principals you have preached reaches the definition (mine) of hypocrisy. Because we may falter at one time or another, in which we all do or will do, doesn't make us hypocrites, it makes us human, thus reminding us of our need for Jesus. When we do fail, we admit it to God and to others.

As for the changes in us, some of it will be done by the HS and some will be done by the conscious choices we make each and everyday. I'm sure that if I tried to make all the changes my self, I would invariably fail. There are things within us we can't accomplish, if we could, that would dissolve any purpose of the cross. On the other hand, His Word is a guidebook for living a holy life. He says do these things because He knows what works and what doesn't. What will cause us pain and heartache and what won't. So for some of us and out and out denial of these words makes us hypocrites. For some to say that because we follow what the Bible says, we are legalistic and Pharisees. This is a double sided coin that won't ever be resolved. It is a thorn in the side of Christians to be called hypocrites. It's almost equal to being called a nasty name. It's offensive, yet true. Some are true hypocrites, while others are only hypocrites by default of a human nature. In way about it, it's not what others think or perceive us to be, it is what we are in the eyes of our Father that matters most. Once we get past others defining us, we have true freedom to be who Christ has created us to be. What others say or think, just won't matter.
[:)]



4IMPersuaded -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 3:50:08 PM)

quote:

could it be 'us' He is referring to?


Oh, sure it could! I was thinking that as I read the passage you quoted. As someone recently posted, "there is nothing new under the sun." The Isrealites in the desert, the Pharisees... they are all men (and women) just like us. I think that we miss that and like to think of them as characters rather than real people with real issues.

I probably have been a hypocrite from time to time, though I did not realize it-- I don't think most hypocrites know that they are-- they are blind to their own flawed thinking, IMO.

I would say that God has done some "heavy lifting" in my life in recent years and freed me to live authentically in my community. I no longer hide my politics, or my "liberal" view of drinking wine (all things in moderation, do not be drunk with wine...). I am confident enough to allow my struggles to be viewed by those around me-- to not try to be the "perfect Christian."

I was dismayed lately to have a seeker friend of mine call me , "Christian Christi." I was not upset by the fact that she thought of me as a Christian, far from it. What I was saddened about was that by labeling me as such, it made me a charicature and took away all of the struggles that make me real and the victories that I have had in Jesus. My world is not perfect as the moniker suggests, but my God is.



URForgiven -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 3:55:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

So, if you're willing, explore hypocrisy with me. And specifically, how do you know you are not a hypocrite?


Wow...your post covers a lot of territory...I'll take on just one for now...

A hypocrite is an actor, a pretender, they pretend to be something and/or someone they really are not. This is not just a one time or occasional thing, but a constant way of being. You are not a hypocrite because you pretend, you pretend because you are a hypocrite. It is the identity of the person.

We all pretend, but that does not make us a hypocrite...it makes us hypocritical. The hypocrite is the one who denies that he pretends. Did you get that? The hypocrite is the one who denies that he pretends to be someone or something he is not. Sounds like an oxymoron doesn't it? It is our acknowledgement of our hypocrisy to ourselves and to our Lord that assures us we are not a hypocrite.

A Child of God cannot be a hypocrite. Our identity is not based on what we do, but on who we are. Just as a hypocrite's identity is not based on what they do but on who they are, their hypocrisy is the logical outworking of who they are. The Christians hypocrisy is the illogical outworking of who they are not. When Christians act hypocritically, they are acting contrary to who they are, they are behaving as the worm they used to be, instead of the butterfly they now are.

This one subject could easily be a thesis, I see the nay sayers gathering at the door as I write lol. You have brought up many good and interesting points Liveloved.

Peace



SinnerSaved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 4:24:08 PM)

The word hypocrite originally meant 'actor'. In Roman and classical Greek culture, actors wore a mask - either a smiling face or a frowning face. Jesus' audience would therefore have understood a hypocrite to be a person who 'put on a front' or gave an outward appearance that was different from the real inner nature.

How do I know that I'm not a hypocrite? By self examination.

2 Corinthians 13:5

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

I agree wholeheartedly with URForgiven - Great Post!



mvic -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 5:38:28 PM)

May I answer your questions from a different perspective?

When we all gather infront of Jesus and He has to decide who will enter Heaven and who will not. If He were to ask: all you hypocrites stand to the left and the rest to the right.

What percentage do you think will stand on the left side?

If He were then to choose those entering Heaven would His choice be based on:

Knowledge of the Bible?

Whether one is a philosopher, theologian, preacher, vicar, priest etc ...?

How much one has prayed, praised and attended church?

Or whether the individual has genuinely tried to live life by following Christ's example?

And that's where you'll find your hypocrites. How many people do you know who say, or even believe, they are Christians, saved, born again etc... etc... yet their actions betray their true nature?

As for me ... I am trying, and failing, and sinning, and seeking forgiveness, and failing again ... Am I a hypocrite?

It's for others to say.



Liveloved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 5:52:44 PM)

quote:

Because we may falter at one time or another, in which we all do or will do, doesn't make us hypocrites, it makes us human, thus reminding us of our need for Jesus. When we do fail, we admit it to God and to others.


Delivered, I like your response.[:)] You've spoken much truth. It is not whether or not we falter. . . we will. You are quite right. We are human. What I see as lacking and what is many times the reason for the label 'hypocrite' being cast upon believers, is the failure to repent and to confess our sin to others. Pride keeps us from being that truthful. But that is what others need to see. We must live honestly, truthfully and confess our sin. I think that is what makes us believable and confirms the gospel message we say we believe (that we are indeed sinners in desperate need of a Savior). Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful and truthful response. Bless ya![:)] LL



Liveloved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 5:56:15 PM)

quote:

I was dismayed lately to have a seeker friend of mine call me , "Christian Christi." I was not upset by the fact that she thought of me as a Christian, far from it. What I was saddened about was that by labeling me as such, it made me a charicature and took away all of the struggles that make me real and the victories that I have had in Jesus. My world is not perfect as the moniker suggests, but my God is.


4IMPersuaded,
Thanks for your great response! And oh so thoughtful! Don't let the name your friend gave you steal your joy or make you sad. She took nothing from you. She can take nothing from you. She has only misunderstood and that makes you stand in the company of Christ, the MOST Misunderstood of all. Bless you! [:)] LL



buckifn -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 5:56:44 PM)

quote:

What they were were men who were serious about God, pursuing Him and the knowledge of Him. This is no different than those who do the same today---could it be 'us' He is referring to?

And Jesus makes it clear (to me) in this passage that hypocrisy is an attainment of knowledge of God which we can easily and eagerly talk about and attempt (and quite successfully) live out but the inner person of the heart has not been changed. We are controlling the changes but they are outward changes and not of the Spirit. They are not what Jesus and life in Him is ultimately about.


Those 2 points are contradictions.

If a man or woman is serious about following God it has to come from the heart. With the heart we believe and with the mouth we confess.

There is not 1 good thing within any of us apart from Christ Jesus. NOTHING.

A leader is simply a title given by man, but a relationship with Jesus Christ is a personal gift given on Calvary. The difference I see between myself and a title someone could give me is I know I am nothing without Jesus and it is His blood that covers my sin.

I know I had a great deal of knowledge about the Bible while I was living a sinful life everyday willingly...I think knowledge is something anyone can gain if they are willing to study...however Salvation is something no man can earn, it is a free gift and only given if and when the Spirit draws us into a personal relationship with Jesus. Plus we have to accept Him as Lord of all.

The way I know I am a true believer is because the Spirit bears witness within. If we have not the Spirit of God we are none of His.



Liveloved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 6:00:02 PM)

quote:

It is our acknowledgement of our hypocrisy to ourselves and to our Lord that assures us we are not a hypocrite.


Amen, URForgiven! Yes, this subject is deep and we are just scratching the surface. But I take all of God's word as a personal word to me---there is something I need from it. So I let it challenge me and I enjoy the challenges that others give me as well. Thanks for your thoughful comments. We'll keep pondering and believing together! Bless ya![:)] LL



Liveloved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 6:04:21 PM)

quote:

As for me ... I am trying, and failing, and sinning, and seeking forgiveness, and failing again ... Am I a hypocrite?

It's for others to say.


mvic,
Again I enjoy reading your insightful perspective. But ultimately it is not for others to say, is it. It will only matter what Jesus says. He knows. And that is ALL. Bless ya![:)] LL



Liveloved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 6:13:18 PM)

quote:

buckifnquote:

What they were were men who were serious about God, pursuing Him and the knowledge of Him. This is no different than those who do the same today---could it be 'us' He is referring to?

And Jesus makes it clear (to me) in this passage that hypocrisy is an attainment of knowledge of God which we can easily and eagerly talk about and attempt (and quite successfully) live out but the inner person of the heart has not been changed. We are controlling the changes but they are outward changes and not of the Spirit. They are not what Jesus and life in Him is ultimately about.

Those 2 points are contradictions.

If a man or woman is serious about following God it has to come from the heart. With the heart we believe and with the mouth we confess.

There is not 1 good thing within any of us apart from Christ Jesus. NOTHING.

A leader is simply a title given by man, but a relationship with Jesus Christ is a personal gift given on Calvary. The difference I see between myself and a title someone could give me is I know I am nothing without Jesus and it is His blood that covers my sin.

I know I had a great deal of knowledge about the Bible while I was living a sinful life everyday willingly...I think knowledge is something anyone can gain if they are willing to study...however Salvation is something no man can earn, it is a free gift and only given if and when the Spirit draws us into a personal relationship with Jesus. Plus we have to accept Him as Lord of all.

The way I know I am a true believer is because the Spirit bears witness within. If we have not the Spirit of God we are none of His.


I don't see the contradiction that you see. But ultimately what you have concluded is absolutely the truth. Hypocrites are without Christ, His Spirit living within and living His life in them. But just as the religious people of Jesus' day talked the talk and walked the walk, it happens today. . . but apart from the life of the Spirit. (Which we know is not really the talk and walk but they don't know it and don't see it.) Some are very good at just living the 'life'.

I have always thanked God that I am so bad that I can't be deceived. There is no way I can be confused into thinking I'm OK apart from Jesus. Anyway, that's for thinking and pondering hypocrisy with me. Bless ya![:)] LL



SonInMe1 -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 8:39:45 PM)

quote:

I practice what I preach.


Amen. However....[:D]....if you preach the full gospel, it would stand to reason, its a standard that is very high and one not met on a regular basis. In other words, if you can meet the standard that you preach all the time, then that standard is...too low.

quote:

I'm sure that if I tried to make all the changes my self, I would invariably fail.


Undoubtably. Without God it is impossible to change.

quote:

It is a thorn in the side of Christians to be called hypocrites.


Yes, and incentive.



4IMPersuaded -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 10:15:32 PM)

quote:

4IMPersuaded,
Thanks for your great response! And oh so thoughtful! Don't let the name your friend gave you steal your joy or make you sad. She took nothing from you. She can take nothing from you. She has only misunderstood and that makes you stand in the company of Christ, the MOST Misunderstood of all. Bless you!


Thank you, LL... Here's the great "rest of the story" to this one. She has asked me to help her arrange a meeting with my pastor so that she can talk about where she is and what the "next step" is!!! I managed to remain calm, but inside I was doing the happy dance!

This issue has been so important since God has lead me into her life. She was so hurt by "religious" people in her life growing up that she mistrusted anything remotely "churchy." I could see just by talking to her for a few minutes that God was actively calling her, she just didn't recognize it. I saw as He stripped away many of the things that she depended on rather than turning to Him. Two years later, she wants to talk to my pastor. I knew that this was a long-term deal and that if I tried to be something that I'm not (namely, perfect in Jesus) I would fail miserably and she would see right through such an act. I allowed her to see my genuine faith struggle. I am so privileged that God would allow me to participate in this blessing.



Liveloved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/17/2008 10:30:03 PM)

quote:

I allowed her to see my genuine faith struggle. I am so privileged that God would allow me to participate in this blessing.


Oh, what a cool testimony! Your reality (being real) paid off! Hallelujah! It is what Jesus wants from us always but the pull to be good and act good is soooo strong. What He wants is for us to be real, truthful and honest with ourselves, with Him and with others. YEAH! It is so exciting to hear this wonderful story of walking in the truth! There is no greater joy for me. Thank you for letting me share in this wonderful moment. Bless you, LL[sm=hug.gif]



timf -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 8:24:50 AM)

specifically, how do you know you are not a hypocrite?

You won't know, that is why Jesus warned His disciples about the danger. The danger is the blindness that comes from self delusion. Consider,

Luke 18:9-14
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Could the following observations be made?

1. Hypocrisy might be considered acting in that what is done and how it is done (works) is paramount which elevates self and our trust (faith) turns from God to self.
2. Being pleased with self brings a low opinion of others.
3. Pride blinds us to truth.
4. Humility opens the door to truth and God's grace.

A broken and contrite heart on knees in prayer to God for wisdom and a full confession of sin and worthlessness may be something that is sought. A person who cannot come to his Lord as the publican may ask himself if he has been infected by the leaven of the Pharisees.



URForgiven -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 2:30:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved
You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
'This people honors me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from me.
But in vain do they worship me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'"[/center]

I think it is easy (and wrong) to categorize the scribes and Pharisees as rule makers/keepers and the 'bad guys'. What they were were men who were serious about God, pursuing Him and the knowledge of Him. This is no different than those who do the same today---could it be 'us' He is referring to?



For me, the bottom line is this; when confronted with truth, are you willing to give up the lie that the truth has exposed? This is what I see as the problem of the Pharisees and Sadducee's that Jesus was confronting. He always saved His harshest words of criticism for them, in fact, He was down right brutal with them.

The Pharisees and Sadducee's had their "truth", and their truth was their doctrine that had been worked out over many years to the most minuet detail...and each believed their doctrine to be Bible based. These were the two major "camps" that stood opposed to each other, each claiming that their doctrine was truth. The tragedy is, they were both wrong, they had both missed the mark, because they had both missed God. Does that sound like anything we see going on in Christendom today? Although they sincerely believed they had Bible based doctrine, all they truly had were the "precepts of men". They were sincere, but they were sincerely wrong.

The proof of this is that when The Truth was standing right in front of them, they rejected Him. All they saw was a threat to their way of life, to their doctrine and their places of honor. They responded not by embracing the truth, but by fighting to kill the Truth...in order to maintain their lie.

They were confronted with the truth, but they were not willing to give up the lie that The Truth had exposed.

Are you willing?

Peace



doinkdom -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 2:38:31 PM)

Behavior modification vs a heart transformation

One is based on physical methods that product empty actions and one is based on our hearts, which will manifest in our words, our attitude and how we generally live our lives.

IMO, the hypocrisy happens when we provide lip service to the things of God.

I'm a Christian, but I can't be bothered to serve. <----that's hypocrisy



delete123 -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 3:12:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

Other threads have asked about hypocrisy and I'm certainly not trying to hijack another thread. But this morning's reading/meditating has me wanting to discuss this topic. The scripture I've been reading is Matthew 15:1-9.
Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem, saying, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
And He answered and said to them, "And why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother, and he who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death.'
But you say, 'Whoever shall say to his father or mother, "anything of mine you might have been helped by has been given to God,"
he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
'This people honors me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from me.
But in vain do they worship me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'"


I think it is easy (and wrong) to categorize the scribes and Pharisees as rule makers/keepers and the 'bad guys'. What they were were men who were serious about God, pursuing Him and the knowledge of Him. This is no different than those who do the same today---could it be 'us' He is referring to?

And Jesus makes it clear (to me) in this passage that hypocrisy is an attainment of knowledge of God which we can easily and eagerly talk about and attempt (and quite successfully) live out but the inner person of the heart has not been changed. We are controlling the changes but they are outward changes and not of the Spirit. They are not what Jesus and life in Him is ultimately about.

So, if you're willing, explore hypocrisy with me. And specifically, how do you know you are not a hypocrite? a seeker of knowledge about God (head knowledge) but without the necessary heart transforming changes? If you are changing, is it about your doing? or His? how much similarity do you see between yourself and those called Pharisees?


Jesus also gave an example of this hypocrasy: When he told the pharisees that they had believers giving to the church, yet they would not help out their parents.
According to Jesus they should have taken their tithe and gave it to their needy parents instead of upholding a place in the church.

I had someone attempt to put several *rules* into my *faith* trying to make it a religion, it worked ofr a while, but I realized I was not walking in the Spirit but in a fool's man way.
I was neglecting what was important because I was playing by the *rules* (law) and almost missed the relationship
Praise Him for opening my eyes to that error not to mention that I was miserable doing it. It just give me a visionary of what those old scorn faces were about.
Unfortunately we have many today that forsake the relationship to uphold to what they believe is "righteousness" according to him.
I think they missed the proverbial Noah's Ark on that one.

CRH



Walker311 -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 5:26:47 PM)

The world is full of hypocrits.

There are two types. 1)The aware and the 2)unaware. They are still hypocrits and still have responsibility.

The aware type are seasoned veterans and lack both a heart and backbone. The unaware are unsure about most things in their life including their spirituality. They have a heart... it is merely displaced.

The cure for both types is Godly interference and He is a seasoned verteran in getting our attention whatever state we are in.

If we don't make an effort to change our ways, we lose out on an extraordinary relationship with God.

How can God effectively answer our prayers if we are hypocritical?



Liveloved -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 6:08:25 PM)

quote:

They were confronted with the truth, but they were not willing to give up the lie that The Truth had exposed.


URForgiven,

I enjoyed what you had to say. But don't you think the major 'truth' they were missing was truthfulness? They knew biblical, doctrinal truth. But it was externally applied, controlled by themselves. They could not be honest, truthful about themselves---with God, with themselves, or (God forbid) with others. And that is where I see many missing the mark today. The church is filled with people who know the doctrine and even live pretty good lives but they are not truthful. You don't see confession of sin or awareness of their own sinfulness in day to day actions, attitudes, etc. What do you think?



URForgiven -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 8:10:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

quote:

They were confronted with the truth, but they were not willing to give up the lie that The Truth had exposed.


URForgiven,

I enjoyed what you had to say. But don't you think the major 'truth' they were missing was truthfulness? They knew biblical, doctrinal truth. But it was externally applied, controlled by themselves. They could not be honest, truthful about themselves---with God, with themselves, or (God forbid) with others. And that is where I see many missing the mark today. The church is filled with people who know the doctrine and even live pretty good lives but they are not truthful. You don't see confession of sin or awareness of their own sinfulness in day to day actions, attitudes, etc. What do you think?


I think Jesus Christ is the Truth. And yes, I think they missed Him.

Peace



4IMPersuaded -> RE: Let's talk about hypocrisy (6/18/2008 8:42:54 PM)

quote:

You won't know,


I'd have to disagree with you on that. I have been convicted in my past of behaving differently with my "church" friends than I do when I was with "secular" friends. I think we have a great capacity to fool ourselves-- nearly equal to the capacity to conform to please those we are with. It is through the work of the HS in my life that I have been able to deal with this behavior-- an ongoing process, but I can definitely see progress.



Page: [1]



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI