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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Second, I don't understand how you can say with such certainty that government would make everything worse - have you lived in another country that has some form of universal healthcare?

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana


And if you do not answer this question that I have asked you quite a few times, I will assume that you do agree that for 75% that have privatized healthcare - the system is broken; you have no solution yourself, and you came on here to offer no real solution.

I believe those who believe the government is the answer come here with no real solution...

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PS BTW, if McCain tones down his war rhetoric and promises to sign Kyoto, I'm voting for him. He has an ok record on the environment - and is actually trying to appeal to environmentalists ih his latest campaign messages.

Doesn't the above require a judgment on your part?

John

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Well, perhaps some of us were taught differently. I was taught not to judge - that only God can judge us.

You were taught wrong... What you were taught wouldn't allow you to leave false teaching like that Obama sat under for 20 years...

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BTW, the person judged Obama as 'wicked' and a murderer. Our justice system would not even allow this - interesting that you are comfortable with this.

Our <cough> system allows the murder of the unborn, the very thing the murderer, Obama supports... And the system allows my opinion on the matter of Obama's support for murder being that I am not a member of the court a possible a juror on the manner...

Btw... I challenge you to refute the truth that the man supports the murder of the unborn...

John

Well, I was taught correctly.

And, I'm not going to get off topic out of respect to the OP.

But do have fun yourself, going off-topic John! I've never seen someone do it as much as you - I'll give you that!

Another judgment...

John

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana
First off - again, I, nor any of the candidates except for Nader - we are NOT advocating that the government run the entire healthcarce show.

Slippery slope...

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Second, I don't understand how you can say with such certainty that government would make everything worse - have you lived in another country that has some form of universal healthcare?

This isn't another country and this government is about control...

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And, no, I am not jumping on a bandwagon. I have long thought that a country that promises free education to grade 12 certainly can find a way to provide healthcare to all.

Who says the government has any business providing <cough> free education... And if the education system is the standard I certianly don't want those same folks involved in healthcare...

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And, see, I'd rather have my country provide free healthcare to all than spend billions, probably trillions by now, on unnecessary wars - but that's another thread.

The government's stated reasonability leans far closer to war than it does being the provider of health care…

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I think providing money to those without healthcare is a heck of a lot better than destruction - perhaps you disagree

Perhaps some people wish to live under socialism... I know I don't...

John

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ORIGINAL: Sophie11

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Hi Sophie,

First off - again, I, nor any of the candidates except for Nader - we are NOT advocating that the government run the entire healthcarce show.

Second, I don't understand how you can say with such certainty that government would make everything worse - have you lived in another country that has some form of universal healthcare?

Third, I don't understand how you can be satisfied our current system: where 45-47 million Americans are without health insurance; people do not get needed surgeries; people have go bankrupt paying for necessary surgeries, or take out second mortgages on houses to pay for surgeries.

And, no, I am not jumping on a bandwagon. I have long thought that a country that promises free education to grade 12 certainly can find a way to provide healthcare to all. And, see, I'd rather have my country provide free healthcare to all than spend billions, probably trillions by now, on unnecessary wars - but that's another thread. I think providing money to those without healthcare is a heck of a lot better than destruction - perhaps you disagree.

Peace and God bless,

No I have not lived in a country with universal healthcare, but then I suppose I can't disagree with it with any more certainty than you have in agreeing with it. The US has never done such, so there is not really any certainty in it at all. It is my opinion that it would be disaterous.

The other problem with the number of uninsured in this country is that there is no certainty they will get needed care simply by the fact that they get health insurance. Giving them health insurance in no way ensures people will be able to get healthcare. There are many today who do have insurance yet they still have trouble getting necessary procedures done.

And as far as free education, are you kidding? Look at the mess that has become. And also I might add the power the government has over the education of our children and the complete disregard of parents' voices on the subject matter being taught in public schools. That is not what I would want for our healthcare system.

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ORIGINAL: tafkam

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I live in an absolutely spectacular public school district which happens to be run very very well.

Only someone from the left would make such a comment. Of course, teh left LOVES what our schools have become, and want as many children indoctrinated by them as they can.

Why else would they oppose vouchers or school choice?

Likewise for healthcare.....it's supposed to be let-the-government-take-care-of-you-from-cradle-to-grave, right?

Personal responsibility? We don' need no stinkin' responsibility!

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Second, I don't understand how you can say with such certainty that government would make everything worse - have you lived in another country that has some form of universal healthcare?

I think it's probably because people are looking at what else the government has "messed up" here. I know plenty of people who loved universal healthcare in their countries (as compared to the US, where they now live and think the healthcare system is worse). I know one person who decided to move back to his country for their healthcare system.

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

Yeah, I saw the same thing... I think twice. :)

Of course, I'm nerdy that way. I've always been interested in healthcare/medicine and biology and medical ethics, so I'll pretty much watch anything that's related.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: Sophie11

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Hi Sophie,

First off - again, I, nor any of the candidates except for Nader - we are NOT advocating that the government run the entire healthcarce show.

Second, I don't understand how you can say with such certainty that government would make everything worse - have you lived in another country that has some form of universal healthcare?

Third, I don't understand how you can be satisfied our current system: where 45-47 million Americans are without health insurance; people do not get needed surgeries; people have go bankrupt paying for necessary surgeries, or take out second mortgages on houses to pay for surgeries.

And, no, I am not jumping on a bandwagon. I have long thought that a country that promises free education to grade 12 certainly can find a way to provide healthcare to all. And, see, I'd rather have my country provide free healthcare to all than spend billions, probably trillions by now, on unnecessary wars - but that's another thread. I think providing money to those without healthcare is a heck of a lot better than destruction - perhaps you disagree.

Peace and God bless,

No I have not lived in a country with universal healthcare, but then I suppose I can't disagree with it with any more certainty than you have in agreeing with it. The US has never done such, so there is not really any certainty in it at all. It is my opinion that it would be disaterous.

The other problem with the number of uninsured in this country is that there is no certainty they will get needed care simply by the fact that they get health insurance. Giving them health insurance in no way ensures people will be able to get healthcare. There are many today who do have insurance yet they still have trouble getting necessary procedures done.

And as far as free education, are you kidding? Look at the mess that has become. And also I might add the power the government has over the education of our children and the complete disregard of parents' voices on the subject matter being taught in public schools. That is not what I would want for our healthcare system.

Well then, let's agree to disagree.

I actually am blessed to live in an area that has excellent public schools. Our school system is rated the 3rd best public school system in Wisconsin, and last year was rated within the top 500 best school system in the country. I went to this same school system and pretty much breezed thru the college placement exams - something I attribute to the great teachers, public school system that I attended.

So, I guess I'm just blessed to live in a great school system area as well as have a husband's whose employer has excellent healthcare.

However, I strongly believe all should have the same healthcare, health insurance I do & this is a very important issue for me.

Peace and God bless,

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Me, too. Parkway. Excellent schools and education.

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ORIGINAL: relady

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Me, too. Parkway. Excellent schools and education.

ahhh, a "neighbor"! Yes, parkway is excellent. And both it and Pattonville are in a handful of elite school systems where home prices actually appreciated over the past 6 months! Not all public schools are awful -- it depends on how they are run locally. The government does NOT run the schools here.

And conservative right wing rhetoric to the contrary, there are plenty of things the government has done in the past and does now that are successful endeavors and we would not have the lifestyle we have in America if it were not for our tax dollars being put to use for the public good (government $$). I for one am glad for a lot of things the government has done. Why should I WANT to live a 3rd world lifestyle just so the government has no hand in anything? That's just crazy. But if the government pulled out of everything that is exactly what America would become.

Yep, I'm a pretty semi lefty & very proud of it.

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Now... tomorrow I have to call and make an appointment with a specialist... and I know I won't get to see him for at least 4 months... probably about 5. That's usually how it goes. :(

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ORIGINAL: relady
The government does not run schools in America, conservative religious rhetoric to the contrary.

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Second, I don't understand how you can say with such certainty that government would make everything worse - have you lived in another country that has some form of universal healthcare?

I think it's probably because people are looking at what else the government has "messed up" here. I know plenty of people who loved universal healthcare in their countries (as compared to the US, where they now live and think the healthcare system is worse). I know one person who decided to move back to his country for their healthcare system.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Ok, John. I am for some government involvement with healthcare, and you are not.

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And I think you know what judgement I mean, John.

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You prefer to judge those in things that I consider only God can do.

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And therein lies the huge difference between you and I.

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BTW, there is an enormous difference between saying that you do not agree with a candidate & therefore will, or will not vote for them; and calling a candidate you don't agree with wicked and not a Christian. Anyone can plainly see this.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

John, again, why can't you just be happy having your opinion. You're not going to change mine, so I don't know why you keep beating a dead horse.

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ORIGINAL: relady

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Now... tomorrow I have to call and make an appointment with a specialist... and I know I won't get to see him for at least 4 months... probably about 5. That's usually how it goes. :(

that's not unusual, even here in the U.S. Specialists are always full - I mean it takes me two months to get into my GYN for a check up. So, there is often a wait of some length. Although, I do have to say that my doc is really good about getting me in to get stuff done if she thinks there might be an "issue" of some importance.

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

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ORIGINAL: relady

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Now... tomorrow I have to call and make an appointment with a specialist... and I know I won't get to see him for at least 4 months... probably about 5. That's usually how it goes. :(

that's not unusual, even here in the U.S. Specialists are always full - I mean it takes me two months to get into my GYN for a check up. So, there is often a wait of some length. Although, I do have to say that my doc is really good about getting me in to get stuff done if she thinks there might be an "issue" of some importance.

I know. Gyn appointments generally tend to take a long time to get anyway (in my experience). I think part of the problem is that all the patients at this particular doctor have an issue that's pressing/important, and I suspect that he's always overfull because he's an ob/gyn specialist for pain disorders that has patients coming from all around the country to see him (I live in town though). It's just terrible... he's not even a good doctor but he's the only one here. I'd happily go overseas if someone there could help me... but they can't either. (I'll keep looking though.) I remember making an appt. right before the semester began, but the appt. wasn't until right after the end of the semester. I think I'm just used to waiting long periods to see a doctor... even when something is pressing (unless I'm literally about to die).

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They own them and run them...

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

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ORIGINAL: relady

quote:

Now... tomorrow I have to call and make an appointment with a specialist... and I know I won't get to see him for at least 4 months... probably about 5. That's usually how it goes. :(

that's not unusual, even here in the U.S. Specialists are always full - I mean it takes me two months to get into my GYN for a check up. So, there is often a wait of some length. Although, I do have to say that my doc is really good about getting me in to get stuff done if she thinks there might be an "issue" of some importance.

I know. Gyn appointments generally tend to take a long time to get anyway (in my experience). I think part of the problem is that all the patients at this particular doctor have an issue that's pressing/important, and I suspect that he's always overfull because he's an ob/gyn specialist for pain disorders that has patients coming from all around the country to see him (I live in town though). It's just terrible... he's not even a good doctor but he's the only one here. I'd happily go overseas if someone there could help me... but they can't either. (I'll keep looking though.) I remember making an appt. right before the semester began, but the appt. wasn't until right after the end of the semester. I think I'm just used to waiting long periods to see a doctor... even when something is pressing (unless I'm literally about to die).

The big reason is less and less folk are looking to ob/gyn's because of the cost... The ob/gyn's from the office that delievered my children paid $120,000 a year in insurance, each. That was 16 years ago...

John

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ORIGINAL: relady

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They own them and run them...

Like I said...speak for yourself. My schools are run by the local school boards and only about 2% of our funding is federal. MY schools are neither run by nor owned by the government.

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Ok, John. I am for some government involvement with healthcare, and you are not.

Some government involvement is like sort pregnant... Wishful thinking...

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And I think you know what judgement I mean, John.

Ah... So this where you attempt to make your judgments ok...

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You prefer to judge those in things that I consider only God can do.

Yet another judgment... What irony... With every charge against me regarding judgement you point the finger at yourself...

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And therein lies the huge difference between you and I.

Yes, I don't pretend not to judge...

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BTW, there is an enormous difference between saying that you do not agree with a candidate & therefore will, or will not vote for them; and calling a candidate you don't agree with wicked and not a Christian. Anyone can plainly see this.

One who supports the murder of unborn children is wicked and not a Christian not by my judgment, but their own actions.... Anyone with even the slightest insight to God's word this should plain as day... Only those who wish to deny the truth see it otherwise...

BTW... I disagree with folks about Coke or Pepsi... There is no argument for murder...

John

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Second, I don't understand how you can say with such certainty that government would make everything worse - have you lived in another country that has some form of universal healthcare?

I think it's probably because people are looking at what else the government has "messed up" here. I know plenty of people who loved universal healthcare in their countries (as compared to the US, where they now live and think the healthcare system is worse). I know one person who decided to move back to his country for their healthcare system.

I know more that hate it...

John