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ORIGINAL: freakofnature

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However, I know some that do not. Some do not, like my neighbor, who started a local charity out of her own garage - ran it successfully for 20+ years. She gave so much to people in need. Now, with chronic back problems, she was dropped by her insurance company. She may have to either sell her house or take a 2nd mortgage to pay for her surgeries; or, just live with sometimes debilitating back pain.

Sad story... wow... well.. choices choices? Not the tax payers problem. The reality is that she has had options and this is the option she choses. KEY WORDS "CHOOSES and CHOICE." All that personal responsibility junk ya' know.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: PhunkD

I would rather trust elected officials that I elect than a private company that is only looking out for the bottom line.

But I can understand not wanting the gov't to run health care. I certainly do not trust the current administration to do much at all.

When we elect a party that hates government, we should not expect them to govern well.

But once upon a time, our government was able to build highways, parks, and bridges, as well as create a safety net for those in need. Once upon a time, our government kept us out of war when it could, and won a war when it had to. Once, as a people, we stood up, through our government to monopolies that took advantage of people.

Now, we have gotten so used to bad government that we don't think it can do anything.

I still believe that a democratically elected government can do some good things, and it isn't too much of a challenge to provide health care that is accessible and affordable, while still maintaining a high quality of service. If anybody DOESN'T have enough faith in the American people to accomplish this, than I wouldn't vote for them!

Agreed and very well said.

Currently in the US, we have privatized healthcare, and it is painfully obvious that it does not work.

I, myself, have excellent health insurance - thank God because I have asthma, chronic bronchitis, allergies. However, I know some that do not. Some do not, like my neighbor, who started a local charity out of her own garage - ran it successfully for 20+ years. She gave so much to people in need. Now, with chronic back problems, she was dropped by her insurance company. She may have to either sell her house or take a 2nd mortgage to pay for her surgeries; or, just live with sometimes debilitating back pain. This is wrong, and it is echoed all across our country - sadly, also involving children, also involving people in even more dire situations.

There has to be some help from the government for those without, because our current privatized health care system is plainly not working. I would gladly pay more taxes to help people like my neighbor - who gladly helped others when they were in need.

Peace and God bless,

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: PhunkD

I would rather trust elected officials that I elect than a private company that is only looking out for the bottom line.

But I can understand not wanting the gov't to run health care. I certainly do not trust the current administration to do much at all.

When we elect a party that hates government, we should not expect them to govern well.

But once upon a time, our government was able to build highways, parks, and bridges, as well as create a safety net for those in need. Once upon a time, our government kept us out of war when it could, and won a war when it had to. Once, as a people, we stood up, through our government to monopolies that took advantage of people.

Now, we have gotten so used to bad government that we don't think it can do anything.

I still believe that a democratically elected government can do some good things, and it isn't too much of a challenge to provide health care that is accessible and affordable, while still maintaining a high quality of service. If anybody DOESN'T have enough faith in the American people to accomplish this, than I wouldn't vote for them!

Agreed and very well said.

Currently in the US, we have privatized healthcare, and it is painfully obvious that it does not work.

I, myself, have excellent health insurance - thank God because I have asthma, chronic bronchitis, allergies. However, I know some that do not. Some do not, like my neighbor, who started a local charity out of her own garage - ran it successfully for 20+ years. She gave so much to people in need. Now, with chronic back problems, she was dropped by her insurance company. She may have to either sell her house or take a 2nd mortgage to pay for her surgeries; or, just live with sometimes debilitating back pain. This is wrong, and it is echoed all across our country - sadly, also involving children, also involving people in even more dire situations.

There has to be some help from the government for those without, because our current privatized health care system is plainly not working. I would gladly pay more taxes to help people like my neighbor - who gladly helped others when they were in need.

Peace and God bless,

We have quasi privatized/public health care. Last time I checked, Medicare is government funded, and is a large part of the healthcare sector. Not to mention that Medicare is fast approaching the majority (and eventually complete) coverage of the largest demographic in the economy -- baby boomers. So this idea that we are privatized is not accurate. We're a hybrid, and in fact, it was the advent of Medicare that helped jack up the cost of medical care.

On the other hand, privatized health care has severely limited market forces. If we could adopt more programs like Medical saving accounts, we would see more market forces as work. IOW, the prices would go down, because the market couldn't bear the hefty price tag. The lobbyist in Washington are fighting that.

Frankly, the best thing that could happen is if we were all weaned off of what we think of as major medical. If most of us were really paying out of pocket for our doctor visits and our prescriptions, the price would go down, because market couldn't bear the high prices. But this will never happen. There would be too much pain and suffering to get to this point; people will cry uncle to the government before we could even out.

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

"Pork barreling" has been going on since the founding and before because it's part of the Adamic nature. Giving favor to get a favor or maintain power has been going on since the Fall of Man. But that aside, please point to a time in American history when the government did not participate in pork or some kind of favors in order to get a favor or maintain power? It will be interesting to see what you reference.

Anyway, this is not something new, because human nature is not something new. But it's sad when people think of the government as a benevolent entity above the nature of man. The framers of the Constitution had great evidence this wasn't true, and they tried to account for it in structuring our government. Do people realize that? Most don't, because they don't know their history or the Constitution. They think thoughts someone else gave them. Thoughts that sound grand but are not realistic.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Well, as PhunkD pointed out, and I had almost forgotten, there was a time in our history when this was not the case. It's time to bring that back.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

"Pork barreling" has been going on since the founding and before because it's part of the Adamic nature. Giving favor to get a favor or maintain power has been going on since the Fall of Man. But that aside, please point to a time in American history when the government did not participate in pork or some kind of favors in order to get a favor or maintain power? It will be interesting to see what you reference.

Anyway, this is not something new, because human nature is not something new. But it's sad when people think of the government as a benevolent entity above the nature of man. The framers of the Constitution had great evidence this wasn't true, and they tried to account for it in structuring our government. Do people realize that? Most don't, because they don't know their history or the Constitution. They think thoughts someone else gave them. Thoughts that sound grand but are not realistic.

Well, as PhunkD pointed out, and I had almost forgotten, there was a time in our history when this was not the case. It's time to bring that back.

And the private industries are the ones to blame for the current mess we find with healthcare right now. From skyrocketing drug prices to over the top medical service charges to not covering people because of 'pre-existing' conditions - it's a free for all for the private industries. And do you think it'd hurt them if they charged a little less? I don't think so - not at the rate they pay their lobbyists so they can whisper in the polictians ears to 'Stay the course' as it is right now with our broken healthcare system. How can we accept more of the same - ie how can we accept our current broken healthcare system - a system that is all private? And please keep in mind that I'm not a senior - I would not be able to use Medicare even if I wanted to - therefore, I am at the mercy of the broken privatized healthcare system that most Americans belong to.

Peace and God bless,

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

Something definitely needs to change and researching what is working and WHY should be part of that. No question. We just can't keep doing same old, same old. It's broken, and I think we all agree on that.

What is problematic is this idea that the government is going to benevolently administer a health care program, and that belief has to be present in order for people to take to the idea. I can tell you from years of being an approved Medicare and Medicaid provider and seeing what all went on that the government is not bevolent. People die all the time waiting on Medicare and Medicaid to come through. Others just work the system. Witnessing this garbage is one reason I finally got out of that business. It is sickening to me. It's just sickening the people who are corrupt and steal from these programs (both beneficiaries and providers). In fact, there is such a culture of corruption that you are looked on as an idiot if you do not participate in some form. But the program is so enormous that it cannot be monitored as it should be. And we're goin to expand it the rest of the American people? I'm crosseyed just trying to process that.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

"Pork barreling" has been going on since the founding and before because it's part of the Adamic nature. Giving favor to get a favor or maintain power has been going on since the Fall of Man. But that aside, please point to a time in American history when the government did not participate in pork or some kind of favors in order to get a favor or maintain power? It will be interesting to see what you reference.

Anyway, this is not something new, because human nature is not something new. But it's sad when people think of the government as a benevolent entity above the nature of man. The framers of the Constitution had great evidence this wasn't true, and they tried to account for it in structuring our government. Do people realize that? Most don't, because they don't know their history or the Constitution. They think thoughts someone else gave them. Thoughts that sound grand but are not realistic.

Well, as PhunkD pointed out, and I had almost forgotten, there was a time in our history when this was not the case. It's time to bring that back.

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And do you think it'd hurt them if they charged a little less? I don't think so - not at the rate they pay their lobbyists so they can whisper in the polictians ears to 'Stay the course' as it is right now with our broken healthcare system.

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

"Pork barreling" has been going on since the founding and before because it's part of the Adamic nature. Giving favor to get a favor or maintain power has been going on since the Fall of Man. But that aside, please point to a time in American history when the government did not participate in pork or some kind of favors in order to get a favor or maintain power? It will be interesting to see what you reference.

Anyway, this is not something new, because human nature is not something new. But it's sad when people think of the government as a benevolent entity above the nature of man. The framers of the Constitution had great evidence this wasn't true, and they tried to account for it in structuring our government. Do people realize that? Most don't, because they don't know their history or the Constitution. They think thoughts someone else gave them. Thoughts that sound grand but are not realistic.

Well, as PhunkD pointed out, and I had almost forgotten, there was a time in our history when this was not the case. It's time to bring that back.

And the private industries are the ones to blame for the current mess we find with healthcare right now. From skyrocketing drug prices to over the top medical service charges to not covering people because of 'pre-existing' conditions - it's a free for all for the private industries. And do you think it'd hurt them if they charged a little less? I don't think so - not at the rate they pay their lobbyists so they can whisper in the polictians ears to 'Stay the course' as it is right now with our broken healthcare system. How can we accept more of the same - ie how can we accept our current broken healthcare system - a system that is all private? And please keep in mind that I'm not a senior - I would not be able to use Medicare even if I wanted to - therefore, I am at the mercy of the broken privatized healthcare system that most Americans belong to.

Peace and God bless,

Lizahana

Please help me out here. What time was that in our history when this was not the case?

Also, I guess I don't understand how you can say our system is all private? It's not. The biggest demographic in our country is under state run health care.

God Bless you as well.

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ORIGINAL: cow451

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

"Pork barreling" has been going on since the founding and before because it's part of the Adamic nature. Giving favor to get a favor or maintain power has been going on since the Fall of Man. But that aside, please point to a time in American history when the government did not participate in pork or some kind of favors in order to get a favor or maintain power? It will be interesting to see what you reference.

Anyway, this is not something new, because human nature is not something new. But it's sad when people think of the government as a benevolent entity above the nature of man. The framers of the Constitution had great evidence this wasn't true, and they tried to account for it in structuring our government. Do people realize that? Most don't, because they don't know their history or the Constitution. They think thoughts someone else gave them. Thoughts that sound grand but are not realistic.

Well, as PhunkD pointed out, and I had almost forgotten, there was a time in our history when this was not the case. It's time to bring that back.

Ahhhhhhh........... the Good Old Days................ when exactly were those days????????????/

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I simply am not wanting to be more dependent on my government, plain and simple. I do not want the government controlling such an important service.

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When we elect a party that hates government, we should not expect them to govern well.

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I would gladly pay more taxes to help people like my neighbor - who gladly helped others when they were in need.

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The reality is that she has had options and this is the option she choses. KEY WORDS "CHOOSES and CHOICE." All that personal responsibility junk ya' know.

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The most practical approach is to start with something that most people would agree is a good idea, like fixing the "doughnut hole" in the Medicare prescription coverage.

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FDR's TVA and CCC programs to name two.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

FDR's TVA and CCC programs to name two.
Especially the CCC - where unemployed people were put to work building roads, soil conservation projects, etc. And I know it's coming...a big uproar at how awful you all think FDR was - but this is my opinion, I've argued with some and won't change my mind on this. And, though I am not of that generation, both of my parents spoke in high regard for FDR and his new deal - suprisingly so since my mom was a Republican all her life until 1984.

Thanks, Peace and God bless,

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i am sure there will be the ability to opt out and continue paying exorbitant private premiums should you decide that is best for you. I've not seen one proposal from any of the candidates yet that would do away with the private system we have.

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Something definitely needs to change and researching what is working and WHY should be part of that. No question. We just can't keep doing same old, same old. It's broken, and I think we all agree on that.

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

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And do you think it'd hurt them if they charged a little less? I don't think so - not at the rate they pay their lobbyists so they can whisper in the polictians ears to 'Stay the course' as it is right now with our broken healthcare system.

The reason they don't charge less is that the market forces have been limited. In other words, the market is very small. It is mostly some insurance companies, the federal government and a small minority of individuals who pay for insurance by themselves. If most people were paying for most of their medical care themselves, there would be more market forces bearing down on the cost of these goods. Someone selling something can only get what people can generally afford. But the government, and the insurance companies are keeping things jacked up. Look at the price of houses that are coming down. Why? Because the lenders finally quit artificially propping up the prices. That would happen if the government and employer provided insurance (done through a few major insurance companies) were to withdraw from the market. That's not going to happen, but it would be great if it did and in a way that's not quite as dramatic as the lenders withdrawing from the mortgage market as they have.

Here's something a lot of people don't know but need to realize. Insurance companies and drug companies and most big health care providers LOVE that the government is involved. That is a gravy train. They know that, and know that the governmet basically sets the price for healthcare, and it's high. To let market forces truly come in to play is not something they want. There are a few who do, and they are the minority -- mostly a minority of doctors but certainly no hopsitals or other providers.

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ORIGINAL: Sophie11

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

FDR's TVA and CCC programs to name two.
Especially the CCC - where unemployed people were put to work building roads, soil conservation projects, etc. And I know it's coming...a big uproar at how awful you all think FDR was - but this is my opinion, I've argued with some and won't change my mind on this. And, though I am not of that generation, both of my parents spoke in high regard for FDR and his new deal - suprisingly so since my mom was a Republican all her life until 1984.

Thanks, Peace and God bless,

Weren't those programs more about job creation than anything else? How does that qualify as those times being the "good old days"?

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ORIGINAL: KatMack

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FDR's TVA and CCC programs to name two.

Ah, yes, two "marvelous" programs that many economics theorize actually helped to destroy jobs in the private sector and INCREASE unemployment during the depression.

--Kat

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: bzirk

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And do you think it'd hurt them if they charged a little less? I don't think so - not at the rate they pay their lobbyists so they can whisper in the polictians ears to 'Stay the course' as it is right now with our broken healthcare system.

The reason they don't charge less is that the market forces have been limited. In other words, the market is very small. It is mostly some insurance companies, the federal government and a small minority of individuals who pay for insurance by themselves. If most people were paying for most of their medical care themselves, there would be more market forces bearing down on the cost of these goods. Someone selling something can only get what people can generally afford. But the government, and the insurance companies are keeping things jacked up. Look at the price of houses that are coming down. Why? Because the lenders finally quit artificially propping up the prices. That would happen if the government and employer provided insurance (done through a few major insurance companies) were to withdraw from the market. That's not going to happen, but it would be great if it did and in a way that's not quite as dramatic as the lenders withdrawing from the mortgage market as they have.

Here's something a lot of people don't know but need to realize. Insurance companies and drug companies and most big health care providers LOVE that the government is involved. That is a gravy train. They know that, and know that the governmet basically sets the price for healthcare, and it's high. To let market forces truly come in to play is not something they want. There are a few who do, and they are the minority -- mostly a minority of doctors but certainly no hopsitals or other providers.

Well, as I understand it - the private companies are the ones out of control. I know this first hand - they have so much money from overcharging everyone that they can go and buy out other clinics.

The clinic I go to use to be Milwaukee Medical - then it changed to Advanced Healthcare - but now Aurora bought it out; is tearing the whole buidling down (rather than re-using the exisiting building) and building another one right next to it!

Sorry - not buying it. Private insurance companies, clinics, hospitals overcharge so much they can buy politicians, they can buy out other private clinics.

And another thing that really gets my goat - I have asthma and get chronic bronchitis. I used to get this great 5-day generic antibioitic for a $7 co-pay. My pharmicist told me that the big pharmaceutical company sued the one that made the generic anti-biotic, so now I have to pay $40 copayment! This doesn't bother me too much, but can you imagine someone that didn't have health insurance?

And why can Mexico and Canada sell the medications for so much less than the US can? And why does the Whitehouse try to block people from wanting to buy these cheaper medications, when they are the very same medications?

Peace and God bless,