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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/5/2008 9:03:10 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
The true villains of our high costs are the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, and the courts for rewarding ridiculous amounts in fraudulent claims. You find all of these companies are prospering, making high profits. .... We are losing young doctors because they can't afford to pay for medical school, office space, and the high malpractice insurance rates. If you want to fix the problems with health care in this country, then address the real issues.
Absolute TRUTH!!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/5/2008 11:05:26 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SuccessinTruth
The true villains of our high costs are the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, and the courts for rewarding ridiculous amounts in fraudulent claims. You find all of these companies are prospering, making high profits.
The pharms. and the insurance cos. contribute to the high costs, yes, but they also take the financial risks, and contribute positively to health care. I take Lipitor, a miracle drug if you ask me. How many millions of dollars, if not billions, did they risk in developing that drug? How many lives has/will it save? How much profit is too much for a drug like that?
Most of the time, insurance cos. pay. Sometimes they don't, but much of the time it's legit because of insurance fraud, which also costs them billions a year.
Let's not sugar coat this. The REAL culprits are the courts , in concert with the TRIAL LAWYERS! They have no stake in the system, other than to milk it with malpractice suits (take John Edwards - please!). This all started in the 70's with skyrocketing malpractice insurance rates brought on by outrageous tort awards. The more government (congress, which is mostly lawyers) has enacted regulations to deal with the problem, the worse it has become.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/5/2008 11:16:02 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3075
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quote:
How many millions of dollars, if not billions, did they risk in developing that drug? How many lives has/will it save? How much profit is too much for a drug like that? I have been involved in the development of more than 50 drugs over the past 20 years. The average time from test tube to pharmacy shelf is 8 years and the average cost is 900 million dollars! There are way too many excessive legal and regulatory burdens placed on these pharmaceutical companies to allow them to price meds competitively. The biggest contributor to "overpriced" health care is our litigious culture of money-hungry attorneys looking for the next multi-zillion dollar lawsuit to win!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 12:33:57 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 716
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quote:
This all started in the 70's with skyrocketing malpractice insurance rates brought on by outrageous tort awards. The more government (congress, which is mostly lawyers) has enacted regulations to deal with the problem, the worse it has become.
It was also in the [early] 70's when Health Ins Companies started invading the Medical Practices. I remember, when our youngest (born in '71') was less then a year old, every time I took her, or one of our other children into the Pediatricians being asked if we had insurance or not. One day I asked Why, what difference it made? I was told because they charged those with insurance more. A few years later it reversed; those without insurance were billed a higher rate. And then along came the pharmaceutical companies; like Washington D.C.'s Special Interest Groups; praying on Doctors and their trusting patents --- now 95% of the Country is hooked on at least one kind of drug for some kind of illness. And in my opinion un-necessary; a purposely miss diagnoses. Sometimes I believe too many Doctors sold-out and have to get x-number of their parents hooked on X-number of drugs per-month (required hidden quota; using them as human Lab. rats to test newly developed drugs and it's reaction on humans.). IMHO.
< Message edited by Pat-rebel_lady -- 9/6/2008 8:22:06 AM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 3:39:06 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Let's get our government refocused on its priorities. Read the Constitution and then advise your legislators to do the same.
God will bless America only as long as America blesses God.
There is nothing in the Constitution about our country having to bless God either. We have to rely on the Bible for that instruction. The Constitution only addresses the government's attempts to impede or promote religion.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 3:47:49 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 78frogger
Has anyone mentioned that we do not in any way have a free market for health care?
Free market in health care would allow health insurance companies to deny coverage to all but the healthy people which would allow them to make their maximum profit. Are overweight or have a pre-existing condition? Sorry, you're too much of a risk for us to "lose money" over you. Coverage denied!
People always say free markets will self-regulate. A totally free market's self regulation is monopolies and making obscene profit over providing decent coverage. If the government doesn't regulate a business then they have free reign to charge high prices and deny service because it isn;t "profitable".
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 3:49:17 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
How many millions of dollars, if not billions, did they risk in developing that drug? How many lives has/will it save? How much profit is too much for a drug like that? I have been involved in the development of more than 50 drugs over the past 20 years. The average time from test tube to pharmacy shelf is 8 years and the average cost is 900 million dollars! There are way too many excessive legal and regulatory burdens placed on these pharmaceutical companies to allow them to price meds competitively. The biggest contributor to "overpriced" health care is our litigious culture of money-hungry attorneys looking for the next multi-zillion dollar lawsuit to win!
[sarc/on] Is that why there are so many pharmaceutical companies on the verge of financial ruin? 
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 5:30:17 AM
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Bob_George
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I live in Australia where we have socialised health care.
I fell sick with a chest infection about two or three weeks ago. I'm over it now, sort of. There's a private doctors surgery just a few blocks away from me where I usually go. It's good. I get to make an appointment with the doctor I want to see. I have to pay the full amount for the appointment but still get about half of it back from the government. But the place I usually go to was all booked out for the week and they wanted me to schedule an appointment in their other surgery located in a nearby town 20 minutes away. No thanks.
So I went to the free public-service medical centre in town. Never been before. Hated the idea that you couldn't make appointments, you had to put your name down and wait to be called. I thought I'd be sleeping there overnight. So I was sceptical. But I was sick as a dog, needed to be seen ASAP and this was really my only option. Put my name down, sat in the waiting room and started playing my Nintendo DS to keep my occupied for what I anticipated would be a very long wait. Especially since the waiting room was packed. Two hours into New Super Mario Bros my name gets called. I was diagnosed in like five minutes. Got my prescription. Cost me $10 to buy the medicine I needed. Walked out without having to pay anything for the appointment and I was home in time for Oprah.
I was very impressed. I will definitely go back next time I need to see a doctor or dentist or whatever. Very good service. They have many doctors working at the same time so they get through people very fast. It was great. I have booked appointments at private doctors surgeries before. Arrived ten minutes before my appointment and still had to wait up to an hour to be seen. So considering I got to see a doctor in two hours without having to book an appointment is great.
Now apart from the odd chest infection here and food poisoning there I've been very lucky health-wise. But some people in my family haven't been. They've had the odd accident here and there. About eight years ago my mum was in her sewing room and stood on a needle. It went deep into her foot and broke off inside her foot. There was a bit sticking out that she was able to pull out but the other bit that broke off was so deep in her foot that she couldn't remove it. She had to go to hospital. She had a zero waiting time, but I admit she was lucky, it wasn't very busy. But because at the time we lived in a kind of small town, the hospital didn't have the technology to scan her foot or whatever for the needle so they know exactly where it is. So basically they just dug around for it and made a mess of her foot. So because they couldn't get it out they asked her if she would like to be driven to the capital city, which is an hour away, in an Ambulance. So that's what she did. They knew she was coming so she got straight in there as well. They removed the needle very easily. But they did a basic check-up while she was there and found that she had some heart complications. She ended up staying for a week so they could treat her and monitor her whatever. After a week she was right to go home. She was driven back in an Ambulance as well. And it cost her nothing. She didn't have to show insurance papers. None of that.
I've also had my sister split her head open. In and out in less than an hour. I remember my cousin, she was only about 10 at the time, was diagnosed with leukaemia. Her family had not private health care. But that didn't stop her from being treated rather quickly. I can't remember the exact timeline or how long it took. But it's not like she had to wait ages for her insurance company to agree to pay for her treatment. She may have had to wait for someone covered by private health insurance to leave the hospital and create a vacancy for her. But it's not like she was waiting for ages while her cancer got worse. She was treated rather quickly. She even got a free pool because she was a kid or whatever and she had undergone this terrible thing.
So my experience, and the experiences of people I know when dealing with the public health service have been very good. It's not enforced here. Maybe that's the way to go for America. You can purchase private health insurance if you want and all it means if you get to see the doctor or be treated in a hospital before people who don't have private health insurance. And the people with private health insurance pay a lot for it. People without it don't pay a cent except in taxes and the people with private health insurance pay that too.
I just don't understand why people would be against this concept. You'd have to mighty rich to be happy with paying for private health insurance. And you must not give a damn about the people who can't afford it. I guess the question I would put to Americans against public health care, would you be for it if it was done the way it's done in Australia? Public health care is provided, but you have to choice to purchase private health care. Would you be for that? That's what Obama's proposing isn't it?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 12:24:47 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 716
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quote:
I just don't understand why people would be against this concept. You'd have to mighty rich to be happy with paying for private health insurance. And you must not give a damn about the people who can't afford it. I guess the question I would put to Americans against public health care, would you be for it if it was done the way it's done in Australia? Public health care is provided, but you have to choice to purchase private health care. Would you be for that? That's what Obama's proposing isn't it?
Dear Bob,
For myself, I do Not believe that the public health care/ Socialized Medical Care being offered here in America is like what you have their in Australia. It is my understanding, and I could be wrong, that every American Citizen would pay for this, even if they opted to pay for private health insurance for themselves and their family members. Much like every American Citizen pays for Public Schools even tho they may pay for and send their kids to Private or other secular schools; quite unfair. As for your statement, "And you must not give a damn about the people who can't afford it." Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying --- in money or deed (work it off) --- to repay in some way, so others can receive what they did. They've sucked the system we have in place now dry --- we don't want more of this, through Socialized/Public Medical Care.
None-the-less, the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies are such big special interest lobbyist in D.C. that unless they are removed first (which isn't going to happen) nothing good will ever come from an 'American' Government run Health Care system --- just more taxes, laws, requirements and mandates; in other words it would be nothing more than a directorship run system.
I'm truly glad your public health care works so well for you all. Maybe some day we too can have a system like unto yours; we just have to get rid of the things that hinder first.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 7:04:42 PM
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relady
Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
It is my understanding, and I could be wrong, that every American Citizen would pay for this, even if they opted to pay for private health insurance for themselves and their family members. Much like every American Citizen pays for Public Schools even tho they may pay for and send their kids to Private or other secular schools; quite unfair. Please tell me where you got this information. I have read or heard nothing like this. Obama' s plan certainly does not work this way. He is in favor of having a group plan for the currently uninsured that would be affordable and most likely subsidized in some manner. I haven't read enough to know all the minute details.
quote:
Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying --- in money or deed (work it off) --- to repay in some way, so others can receive what they did. They've sucked the system we have in place now dry --- we don't want more of this, through Socialized/Public Medical Care. well, at least you're honest in admitting you don't care. How do you think Jesus would feel about that?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 7:07:05 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
well, at least you're honest in admitting you don't care. How do you think Jesus would feel about that?
People as a whole don't seem to be thinking about Jesus. They're thinking about business and $$.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 7:14:39 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying --- in money or deed (work it off) --- to repay in some way, so others can receive what they did. They've sucked the system we have in place now dry --- we don't want more of this, through Socialized/Public Medical Care.
Matthew 25:36 ".. ill and you cared for me.." 25:40 "Whatever you did for the least of these you did for me"
Christians can be so choosy when it comes to the things Jesus says. So whats YOUR take on that passage since you obviously don't agree with it!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 8:27:29 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying --- in money or deed (work it off) --- to repay in some way, so others can receive what they did. They've sucked the system we have in place now dry --- we don't want more of this, through Socialized/Public Medical Care.
Matthew 25:36 ".. ill and you cared for me.." 25:40 "Whatever you did for the least of these you did for me"
Christians can be so choosy when it comes to the things Jesus says. So whats YOUR take on that passage since you obviously don't agree with it!
I'll give you my take - Jesus was talking about His people - NOT government bereacracies. When government creates dependent classes for it's social programs, individuals are separated from their responsibilty to give and care for those in need. It also creates more people in need. Those who equate socialistic government health care with anything Jesus said are the ones that make this debate unreasonable. They should remove the plank from their own eyes before they accuse others of not caring.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 10:12:09 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying --- in money or deed (work it off) --- to repay in some way, so others can receive what they did. They've sucked the system we have in place now dry --- we don't want more of this, through Socialized/Public Medical Care.
Matthew 25:36 ".. ill and you cared for me.." 25:40 "Whatever you did for the least of these you did for me"
Christians can be so choosy when it comes to the things Jesus says. So whats YOUR take on that passage since you obviously don't agree with it!
I'll give you my take - Jesus was talking about His people - NOT government bereacracies. When government creates dependent classes for it's social programs, individuals are separated from their responsibilty to give and care for those in need. It also creates more people in need. Those who equate socialistic government health care with anything Jesus said are the ones that make this debate unreasonable. They should remove the plank from their own eyes before they accuse others of not caring.
Well then "Christians" in this country aren't doing their job right. Hence the government of this so-called Christian nation should step in since Romans 13:4 says "for it is a servant of God for your good."
Where is it in the Bible where Jesus says we're supposed to walk by our ill people with an uncaring attitute.
BTW, pat rebel lady said "Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying". I didn't type those words but we Christians are very bi-polar when we come to human life. It seems we show more respect for it before birth than after (unless you are of a certain socio-economic class and have all your immigration papers in order) and IMO life after birth counts too. Or what did Jesus mean by the term least of these?
And also Matthew 25:41-46 that states, "a stranger and you did not welcome me,.....ill and in prison and you did not care for me. ...These will go off to eternal punishment....." or shall we negotiate Jesus' own words?
Also, a government bureaucracy is made up of people aren't they? Or are there no Christians working for the feds? The majority of this country claim to be "Christian" where is this "moral majority"?
But throw the "socialist" strawman in the fray to justify not caring for the sick.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 10:57:49 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
Please tell me where you got this information. I have read or heard nothing like this. Obama' s plan certainly does not work this way. He is in favor of having a group plan for the currently uninsured that would be affordable and most likely subsidized in some manner. I haven't read enough to know all the minute details.
The details are where the issues always are...
quote:
How do you think Jesus would feel about that?
About people stealing from others?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 11:09:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Well then "Christians" in this country aren't doing their job right. Hence the government of this so-called Christian nation should step in since Romans 13:4 says "for it is a servant of God for your good."
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
I think you need a lot bigger shoehorn... I don't see the above as blank check for the government to step in where it sees fit regarding the duty of the church...
quote:
Where is it in the Bible where Jesus says we're supposed to walk by our ill people with an uncaring attitute.
Where in the bible does Jesus say to look to the civil government for such things?
quote:
BTW, pat rebel lady said "Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying". I didn't type those words but we Christians are very bi-polar when we come to human life. It seems we show more respect for it before birth than after (unless you are of a certain socio-economic class and have all your immigration papers in order) and IMO life after birth counts too. Or what did Jesus mean by the term least of these?
You didn't type those words nor did you completely quote them....
in money or deed (work it off) --- to repay in some way, so others can receive what they did. They've sucked the system we have in place now dry --- we don't want more of this, through Socialized/Public Medical Care.
quote:
And also Matthew 25:41-46 that states, "a stranger and you did not welcome me,.....ill and in prison and you did not care for me. ...These will go off to eternal punishment....." or shall we negotiate Jesus' own words?
I doubt anyopne can twist the above to absolve one from breaking the law in order to enter the country... The bible is quite clear one is to follow the law of the land cept it cause one to break God's law
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Also, a government bureaucracy is made up of people aren't they?
Yes, but that doesn't remove the fact it is an entity as well...
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Or are there no Christians working for the feds?
Of course there is...
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The majority of this country claim to be "Christian" where is this "moral majority"?
To quote you...
There is nothing in the Constitution about our country having to bless God either. We have to rely on the Bible for that instruction. The Constitution only addresses the government's attempts to impede or promote religion.
quote:
But throw the "socialist" strawman in the fray to justify not caring for the sick.
There is a socialist agenda so its hardly a straw man...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/6/2008 11:41:28 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 716
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Thank you, John [SovereignIsHe], I could not have said these things better myself. Good job!
God bless,
Pat
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/7/2008 12:33:22 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 716
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I would add:
quote:
And also Matthew 25:41-46 that states, "a stranger and you did not welcome me,.....ill and in prison and you did not care for me. ...These will go off to eternal punishment....." or shall we negotiate Jesus' own words?
Matthew 25:41-46 says,
25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
25:42
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
25:43
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
25:44
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
25:45
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Where does it say anything about paying for their Health Care insurance --- just in case they should get sick one day?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/7/2008 1:21:15 AM
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relady
Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
People as a whole don't seem to be thinking about Jesus. They're thinking about business and $$. Sadly, that is too true.
quote:
About people stealing from others? ::sigh:: No, John. About Christians blatantly stating that they don't care about the "others", the "illegals" the "poor". I was asking the poster what Jesus would think of that attitude in one of his children. I suspect he would not be too pleased. Regardless of the subject matter, when I hear a Christian "say" they don't care about others it concerns me.
quote:
Where does it say anything about paying for their Health Care insurance --- just in case they should get sick one day? ::sigh:: It's a GENERAL PRINCIPAL of taking care of those who have less. Some of us believe that should include health insurance that's affordable for everyone.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/7/2008 1:58:59 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
Sadly, that is too true.
God isn't thought of all that much in the Current Event forum... It a place were secularism thrives... And most people are happy with it... Too many times people play the God card, but aren't all that consistent with it...
quote:
::sigh:: No, John. About Christians blatantly stating that they don't care about the "others", the "illegals" the "poor".
That's pretty disingenuous since there was a qualification to that statement in regards to those who can pay yet choose not to and simply use other people... That's stealing...
quote:
I was asking the poster what Jesus would think of that attitude in one of his children. I suspect he would not be too pleased. Regardless of the subject matter, when I hear a Christian "say" they don't care about others it concerns me.
Jesus would not be pleased about people taking advantage of others by taking money and or services when they can pay for them or work to pay for them...
quote:
It's a GENERAL PRINCIPAL of taking care of those who have less. Some of us believe that should include health insurance that's affordable for everyone.
It's the by whatever means part that is an issue...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/7/2008 12:52:55 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
::sigh:: It's a GENERAL PRINCIPAL of taking care of those who have less. Some of us believe that should include health insurance that's affordable for everyone.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
It's the by whatever means part that is an issue...
:::Sigh:::
And some of us believe that what we have done, are doing and most likely will continue (in different forms) to do, is more than sufficient and much more important and beneficial than everyone being forced to contribute to H.I.
Let me ask you this:
Why is taking money from us to support H.I. for those who can’t afford it, and those who can afford it but opt out, more important and more beneficial than our voluntarily taking in a teenage foster son (for whom we got $89 a month to help support) and raise him as our own? Or providing 2 teenagers in half-way housing with a home and food (for whom we received nothing from the state to help support)? Or using my time, my gas, my wear and tear on my car and my body, to run (for 10 years plus --- 2-3 days or more a week) 3 elderly people to and from all of their errands; doctor’s appointments, grocery shopping, banking, etc? Or taking in a young man deathly ill with Lyme’s Disease and seeing him through until he was back on his own again? Or taking in a homeless young man who was on the run from the police (warrants out for his arrest) and helping him turn himself in and visiting him in jail and going to court with him until he paid his debt and was back on his feet again? Or taking in a young girl who was homeless and pregnant and seeing her and her baby through to standing on her own feet?
Please tell me WHY I should care about being forced – mandated – required to provide MY money (which is already limited) for H. I. . Aren’t my deeds enough? Why do you want to burden me with more?? There are literally hundreds and thousands of us out there doing our part in helping those who have no where else to turn.
And some of us believe God, rather than man; Psalms 103: 1-5,
103:1
Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
103:2
Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
103:3
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
103:4
Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
103:5
Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
(We also believe in doing James 5: 14 & 15,
5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
5:15
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.)
Besides, if everyone had all the H.I. available, who would need God (to heal all their diseases)??
< Message edited by Pat-rebel_lady -- 9/7/2008 2:43:23 PM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/7/2008 1:52:40 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Well then "Christians" in this country aren't doing their job right. Hence the government of this so-called Christian nation should step in since Romans 13:4 says "for it is a servant of God for your good."
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
I think you need a lot bigger shoehorn... I don't see the above as blank check for the government to step in where it sees fit regarding the duty of the church...
quote:
Where is it in the Bible where Jesus says we're supposed to walk by our ill people with an uncaring attitute.
Where in the bible does Jesus say to look to the civil government for such things?
quote:
BTW, pat rebel lady said "Truth be known, I don't care about 'illegals' or those, poor or otherwise, citizens who are not held liable to paying". I didn't type those words but we Christians are very bi-polar when we come to human life. It seems we show more respect for it before birth than after (unless you are of a certain socio-economic class and have all your immigration papers in order) and IMO life after birth counts too. Or what did Jesus mean by the term least of these?
You didn't type those words nor did you completely quote them....
in money or deed (work it off) --- to repay in some way, so others can receive what they did. They've sucked the system we have in place now dry --- we don't want more of this, through Socialized/Public Medical Care.
quote:
And also Matthew 25:41-46 that states, "a stranger and you did not welcome me,.....ill and in prison and you did not care for me. ...These will go off to eternal punishment....." or shall we negotiate Jesus' own words?
I doubt anyopne can twist the above to absolve one from breaking the law in order to enter the country... The bible is quite clear one is to follow the law of the land cept it cause one to break God's law
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Also, a government bureaucracy is made up of people aren't they?
Yes, but that doesn't remove the fact it is an entity as well...
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Or are there no Christians working for the feds?
Of course there is...
quote:
The majority of this country claim to be "Christian" where is this "moral majority"?
To quote you...
There is nothing in the Constitution about our country having to bless God either. We have to rely on the Bible for that instruction. The Constitution only addresses the government's attempts to impede or promote religion.
quote:
But throw the "socialist" strawman in the fray to justify not caring for the sick.
There is a socialist agenda so its hardly a straw man...
Hey, maybe the sick are that way due to God's wrath? I know I can find a Bible passage in the OT to back that up!
While we're at it let's get rid of unemployment benefits, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. There's nowhere in the Bible that mentions those things either! Either way the church has got a lot to answer for because even with this "socialistic" government help the church sure ain't picking up the slack!
BTW, when was it that poor people became evil?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/7/2008 2:15:43 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
I would add:
quote:
And also Matthew 25:41-46 that states, "a stranger and you did not welcome me,.....ill and in prison and you did not care for me. ...These will go off to eternal punishment....." or shall we negotiate Jesus' own words?
Matthew 25:41-46 says,
25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
25:42
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
25:43
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
25:44
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
25:45
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Where does it say anything about paying for their Health Care insurance --- just in case they should get sick one day?
I love it when people play semantics to relieve society of its Christian responsibility! 
If that's not good enough read about the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:29-37)and how he cared for the injured person paying for someone he didn't know who was from another country! A country, Israel that treated Samaritans with the upmost contempt because they didn't "follow God's law" so technically an enemy to the man. He commanded us to "go and do likewise"
The religious people passed him by so he wouldn't "break the law" and become ritually unclean!
Also Read Luke 16:19-31 and James Chapter 2.
James 2:16 "and if one of you says 'Go in peace, keep warm and eat well, but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is that?" So what good was just visiting the sick if not to care for them?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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