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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:34:54 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4872
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
A foster parent is not necessarily going to adopt any child. The child may never be adopted. Some foster children for a few days, some for 15+ years. You said that a foster parent should not be getting medical help for the child(ren) they are taking care of. You said that it was the foster parent's responsibility to bear that burden.
He never said they shouldn't be getting medical help, he said they should be willing to accept the responsibility or NOT foster if they can't afford or properly care for the children.
FWIW, foster parents can't add children to their family health insurance, so it's kind of a moot point. They would automatically be put on state insurance.
quote:
Yes, if they can't or won't deal with the responsibility they accepted... What is the point of taking on responsibilities that one can’t fulfill? Not to mention later brow beating others because one cannot fulfill their obligations...
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:36:42 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
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He said this after I asked him about foster parents:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
quote:
Yes, if they can't or won't deal with the responsibility they accepted... What is the point of taking on responsibilities that one can’t fulfill? Not to mention later brow beating others because one cannot fulfill their obligations...
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:40:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
Bad habits, a lot of the time, have nothing to do with it.
You are wrong...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:42:17 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4872
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
quote:
Without an alternative things just keep sliding towards the black hole of devaluation of life! What I am saying the loudest is to God's people. Wake up...get your hands dirty..care for these folks......don't just say it is someone else's responsibility.
That is what you are saying... Your choice to adopt is the responsibility of everyone else...
He did what he was called to do. Do you hold that same stance with foster parents?
Ok, that is where the conversation starts and I'm still not seeing where he says foster parents shouldn't get medical care for their foster children.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:45:02 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
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How about the expectant mom who can't afford insurance. Should her unborn baby be penalized because she can't seek prenatal care?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:45:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
A foster parent is not necessarily going to adopt any child. The child may never be adopted. Some foster children for a few days, some for 15+ years. You said that a foster parent should not be getting medical help for the child(ren) they are taking care of. You said that it was the foster parent's responsibility to bear that burden.
What I said is that people who accept a responsibility either do so or not... And it's disingenuous to later blame others because he or she failed to own up to what they agreed to do... Whomever that falls on it falls on...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:47:57 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4872
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
How about the expectant mom who can't afford insurance. Should her unborn baby be penalized because she can't seek prenatal care?
Now we're really digging. No one has said that low-income people shouldn't have the option of health care, ALL that has been said is that going to a socialized system that appears to be "free" but really just means they tax the heck out of those of us who are working IS NOT going to work.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:48:28 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
A foster parent is not necessarily going to adopt any child. The child may never be adopted. Some foster children for a few days, some for 15+ years. You said that a foster parent should not be getting medical help for the child(ren) they are taking care of. You said that it was the foster parent's responsibility to bear that burden.
What I said is that people who accept a responsibility either do so or not... And it's disingenuous to later blame others because he or she failed to own up to what they agreed to do... Whomever that falls on it falls on...
John
So just to clarify- foster children should or should not be allowed to have gov't health care?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:48:51 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
I think sometimes God tells us to take on things that seem impossible, but God's intent is that others are to step up to help these people.
And then He tells them to blame everyone else when they fail?
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:51:22 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4872
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
Bad habits, a lot of the time, have nothing to do with it.
You are wrong...
John
No, you are. :) Of course bad habits are directly responsible for some situations, probably a lot too; I'm telling you that a lot of the problems are not arising from a habit that put the person in the boat they're in. Many times things happen that are out of the control of the person, especially with genetic diseases and disorders, whether they are congenital problems or not. People with cystic fibrosis or muscular dystrophy (or the thousands of other serious genetic diseases) didn't wake up one day and say "Hey, I think I want to get a genetic disease that's probably terminal and will cost tons of $$ that I don't have to treat."  Many things that burden people and healthcare are things that they did not choose or bring on themselves by habitually doing or not doing something.
I will agree with you on this one, Solo  I am genetically predisposed to diabetes, PCOS, and several other things. I currently am IR and it has nothing to do with "bad habits" since I've always eaten properly and been active.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:52:38 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
A foster parent is not necessarily going to adopt any child. The child may never be adopted. Some foster children for a few days, some for 15+ years. You said that a foster parent should not be getting medical help for the child(ren) they are taking care of. You said that it was the foster parent's responsibility to bear that burden.
What I said is that people who accept a responsibility either do so or not... And it's disingenuous to later blame others because he or she failed to own up to what they agreed to do... Whomever that falls on it falls on...
John
So just to clarify- foster children should or should not be allowed to have gov't health care?
If they are wards of the state the state is their parents and responsible for them... Of course this isn't really what we are talking about...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 3:55:09 PM
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Roberta_
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So, John, you think that no one has a need for gov't health care?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 4:04:08 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
So, John, you think that no one has a need for gov't health care?
Again...
If they are wards of the state the state is their parents and responsible for them...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 4:05:09 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
I don't need a statistic.
In other words you don't have any that support your view...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 4:18:16 PM
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Roberta_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
So, John, you think that no one has a need for gov't health care?
Again...
If they are wards of the state the state is their parents and responsible for them...
John
Not necessarily. Sometimes the parents can't be found or they are deceased.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 4:28:51 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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He is saying that the State has custody and is thus their "parent".
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 4:36:26 PM
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Furnituremaker
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SovereignIsHe
So you see no obligation whatsoever to meet the medical needs of children who have been abused, are sick, or are born with defects? With taxes, tithes, giving etc.? Ones who would die without proper care and medical treatment?!Ones who would not have a family if there was no support for adoptions like Medicaid? These precious little ones are hated by a world that sees them as worthless and unworthy of life! This is love and compassion!?My sons' needs are met...by government health care called Medicaid..not mine but my sons. When we adopted them this was the only way! Personally I have no health insurance at all. That is how God has met their(my sons needs). If you think this is demanding an entitlement then I suggest you adopt a child with similar needs and pay for their needs yourself while you care for them too. After a few years then you can talk to me, till then you do NOT have a CLUE. As a Christian you are obligated to care for the sick and poor and needy, not by my standards but by Gods. I run into this attitude again and again...that I am demanding an entitlement. I am trying to obey the Lord with my life and the resistance I have gotten especially from those like you who call themselves Christians is hard to believe. How can you accept the unconditional unearned love and forgiveness of the Lord Jesus and act that way? Are you entitled to forgiveness..hardly, it is unearned favor called GRACE! In the same way that God adopts you into His Family and supplies you with your needs, He expects you to do the same to your neighbors. So yes it is my responsibility and it is yours too..to clothe the naked, visit the sick etc.
It is my job to protect and advocate for my sons. That is doing justice. Look up the word "justice" in the Bible and see what God says.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 4:43:23 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 931
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Furnituremaker
SovereignIsHe
So you see no obligation whatsoever to meet the medical needs of children who have been abused, are sick, or are born with defects? With taxes, tithes, giving etc.? Ones who would die without proper care and medical treatment?!Ones who would not have a family if there was no support for adoptions like Medicaid? These precious little ones are hated by a world that sees them as worthless and unworthy of life! This is love and compassion!?My sons' needs are met...by government health care called Medicaid..not mine but my sons. When we adopted them this was the only way! Personally I have no health insurance at all. That is how God has met their(my sons needs). If you think this is demanding an entitlement then I suggest you adopt a child with similar needs and pay for their needs yourself while you care for them too. After a few years then you can talk to me, till then you do NOT have a CLUE. As a Christian you are obligated to care for the sick and poor and needy, not by my standards but by Gods. I run into this attitude again and again...that I am demanding an entitlement. I am trying to obey the Lord with my life and the resistance I have gotten especially from those like you who call themselves Christians is hard to believe. How can you accept the unconditional unearned love and forgiveness of the Lord Jesus and act that way? Are you entitled to forgiveness..hardly, it is unearned favor called GRACE! In the same way that God adopts you into His Family and supplies you with your needs, He expects you to do the same to your neighbors. So yes it is my responsibility and it is yours too..to clothe the naked, visit the sick etc.
It is my job to protect and advocate for my sons. That is doing justice. Look up the word "justice" in the Bible and see what God says.
Just a quick question, and not in an attempt to offend you in any way but a serious question.
I hear you saying you take care of your children. Do you give extra monies besides your tithe and whatever tax the government automatically deducts from your paycheck to help many others? Or do you only take care of your own personal family?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 4:44:21 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4872
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
With taxes, tithes, giving etc.?
All of us who work are being taxed and are already paying for your sons' medical care, the majority of us probably tithe, and I know my husband and I give charitably as well. Our first obligation is to our family and making sure our needs are met.
Why should we be taxed more? The church that you are claiming should be picking up the cost is not related to the government, and I do not want the government taxing my income anymore then it already is. We would not survive if our taxes were raised by 30%. Would you?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 5:16:25 PM
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Furnituremaker
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Joined: 6/21/2008
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I work as much as I can...and I don't want your taxes raised.or lay more burdens on you ...but my sons would have died without medical intervention payed for by Medicaid so their survival and those like them is in jeopardy as well. I cannot continue to post in here as it upsets me too much..call me a freeloader or whatever you want ..I gotta go feed and toilet kids. This one last thought I leave with you all...you are a car accident or other catastrophe away from being in the same place as my sons were when they started life..in fact unless we drop dead most of us all will face a terminal illness or require long time care before we die, and most likely you wont be able to pay for it. You will understand then. May you have a loved one caring for and guarding you at that time.........see ya
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 5:17:35 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
He is saying that the State has custody and is thus their "parent".
That's still coming out of taxpayer's pockets.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/21/2008 5:22:15 PM
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jkdjr25
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From: Michigan
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We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Seems to me that life includes access to healthcare. You certainly aren't going to live long without being able to go to a doctor. It's also hard to pursue happiness if you're sick all the time. So that's two out of three inalienable rights that are directly connected to healthcare.
I'd say that the conclusion is pretty much a no brainer.
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I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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