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The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/18/2008 10:55:42 PM
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_MavericK_
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We've been talking in Youth a lot lately about loving someone so much you would die for them. Who do you love so much that you would be able to make that ultimate sacrifice?
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/19/2008 12:19:57 AM
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Konstantinos
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just about anyone
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/19/2008 9:57:25 AM
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rae_of_light
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Y'know, I was just thinking about that sacrifice last night, so it's funny that you should mention it.
The thought of someone, anyone, spending eternity in hell makes me so horribly sick. If I could die instead of an unsaved person and give them a chance to get their life straight, I'd like to think that I would do that. After all, I know that if I died, I would go to be with Jesus. But it's kind of easy to sit here safe and sound and say that I'd give up my life for someone, I can never be sure of what I'd actually do, you know?
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/19/2008 8:50:30 PM
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violinist_for_jesus
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I agree with Rae, it's a lot different to say one thing and then have to face it.
But I'd die for basically anyone, I mean, I am saved afterall, plus, I really am not worth a whole lot on this earth, so I wouldn't have a problem with it. Also, Jesus died for me already, the most that I could do is die for His glory.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/20/2008 10:27:28 PM
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_MavericK_
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I have a really high self-preservation instinct. It would be easy for me to SAY I would die for an unsaved person but doing it would be an entirely different thing. But I know from experience that the second someone I love gets into a pickle, I turn into this blind puppet, immediately acting on their behalf. So I can say I would die for my close family --- my mom, my dad, and my brother --- and my five best buds.
_____________________________
Suddenly, I don't like Ike quite as much as I have in the past.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/20/2008 11:46:29 PM
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jesusfreak94
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it would be easy for me to say that i would die for someone. there are people i would without a doubt give up my life for them. some of which are friends. but i strongly believe that you can never really be too sure what you're gonna do in any situation until you're in it.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/22/2008 2:50:05 AM
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ChiefWannahakaloogie
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quote:
But I'd die for basically anyone, I mean, I am saved afterall, plus, I really am not worth a whole lot on this earth, so I wouldn't have a problem with it. Also, Jesus died for me already, the most that I could do is die for His glory.
ditto
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 6/30/2008 12:00:00 PM
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_MavericK_
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Working with the kids in Dallas has added about sixty people to my list. I love those kids so much...
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Suddenly, I don't like Ike quite as much as I have in the past.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/2/2008 1:07:33 AM
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Norny
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I wouldn't die for to many ppl...just my 2 nephews and niece my sister and my ex GF/best friend
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/2/2008 1:20:26 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nh3463
I can't wait to die...I sort of want to kill myself actually.
Someone with Christ dwelling in them could never want to take the life that He gave.
As for the question, if Christ can give His life for mine, then who am I any better not to give my life for someone else?
I know without a doubt I'd give my life for someone. But I would want her to go with me.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/2/2008 2:31:07 PM
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ShutterBox
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I would die for anyone if it meant furthering God's kingdom.
Dying doesn't scare me in the least, it's living and not doing anything that does scare me.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/2/2008 2:35:49 PM
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PrincessButtercup
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I would like to think I would die for anyone. But I wouldn't know for sure unless I was put into such a situation.
But there are a few people I know that I would give my life for in a heartbeat.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/2/2008 3:21:28 PM
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Konstantinos
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that would be the last heartbeat ever.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/5/2008 8:29:18 PM
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Real_Solitude
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Dying for someone is the ultimate sacrifice? If you die, there's no pain or suffering. The decision to abandon life may be hard, but there's no personal repercussion.
A more poignant question is for whom would you be willing to be tortured for the rest of your mortal life? If it was either their life, or sixty years of pure suffering for you, for whom would you bear whip, rack, knife and maiden?
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/5/2008 8:50:57 PM
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rae_of_light
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That's exactly what I was thinking, but I couldn't quite put those thoughts into words when I wrote my reply. Thanks.
_____________________________
I don't need to swear to get my point across
I don't have to change who I am to be cool
I don't have to drink to have a good time
...And you're asking me what MY problem is?
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/5/2008 9:36:41 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Real_Solitude
Dying for someone is the ultimate sacrifice? If you die, there's no pain or suffering.
On the contrary, there is pain and suffering on behalf of those whom you died for you.
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The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/5/2008 10:06:51 PM
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Real_Solitude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
On the contrary, there is pain and suffering on behalf of those whom you died for you.
No need to be a literalist. :)
There's no pain an suffering for you. It's really no sweat off of your back, because, well, you're dead. Other people might suffer, but that sort of voids the whole 'sacrifice' thing. The point was for them to take their pain on as your own, not to shuffle off more pain onto them.
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/5/2008 10:40:28 PM
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ta_mosquito
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/6/2008 4:22:16 AM
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Konstantinos
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quote:
Dying for someone is the ultimate sacrifice? If you die, there's no pain or suffering. The decision to abandon life may be hard, but there's no personal repercussion.
A more poignant question is for whom would you be willing to be tortured for the rest of your mortal life? If it was either their life, or sixty years of pure suffering for you, for whom would you bear whip, rack, knife and maiden?
ive thought of the same. i actually told mandy once some months ago.
but the thing is, you find it a bigger sacrifice only because you find it harder. most people today(hence common sense) would say that suffering for a lifetime is harder than dying for someone. and thats no wonder considering how little they actually value their lives which is no surprise considering how most people lead a life.
but common sense SHOULD say that dying is never preferable to living even if suffering, especially if you are suffering for someone you love, which makes you live, even if suffering, for a good cause.
you may be thinking is it better to suffer in the hospital for years instead of pulling the plug?
but you can also think whether a parent would rather live to be with their child even if they have to suffer for it, or if they'd rather die. but they still would give up their lives for the kid.
in the end you are confusing whats harder mentally for what is actually practically a bigger sacrifice
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/6/2008 1:34:46 PM
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beachcooky
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Hm. I guess my family members & friends.
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/6/2008 6:58:11 PM
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Real_Solitude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
That wasn't the question though. From the phrasing the question seems to be, "For whom would you give up your life in order to save theirs?" It's a question of simple exchange. It's either your life, or theirs. The OP termed this the ultimate sacrifice. I was saying that it would be more of a sacrifice to be tortured for the rest of your mortal days than to be given a swift death.
The parent scenario you pose deviates from this. You're not choosing to live and suffer for the other person. You're choosing to live and suffer because it's what you want. Because you want to spend more time with your child. Because you want to watch them grow up. You're choosing to live with pain because you will also gain a form of joy from it. The child in your scenario is in no danger, there is no exchange, and therefore there is no a sacrifice.
The correct version of the scenario would be more along the lines of telling a parent that they have to sacrifice something in order for their child to live. They are given two choices of the punishment they will endure.
They can either take a bullet to the head, guaranteeing an easy, clean, instant, painless death. Or they can be whipped, chained, beaten, cut, pulled, burned, and generally tortured for the rest of their lives with no hope of ever seeing their child again.
Either way they're not going to see the child again. Either way they're giving up their life so that that child may live. The difference lies in a world of torture, or an easy death. Simply dying for someone is not the ultimate sacrifice. Living for them is. Death is easy, and comes to us all. It is enduring for the sake of another person, with no hope of recompense, that is harder part of love.
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/7/2008 4:30:09 AM
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Konstantinos
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quote:
you will also gain a form of joy from it.
doesnt matter. every sacrifice gives you some joy too. otherwise its not called sacrifice, its just called suffering.
my point still stands. physical suffering may seem harder for some, but its not for all. nor should it be if they value their lives. and if they are brave enough.
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i can pick you up off the floor and put you over my head
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/7/2008 10:29:28 AM
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Real_Solitude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
doesnt matter. every sacrifice gives you some joy too. otherwise its not called sacrifice, its just called suffering.
Not necessarily. Dictionary definition 9: to dispose of (goods, property, etc.) regardless of profit.
You're honestly telling me that any sane person, given the choice between a quick death, or of a lifetime of torture with no hope of escape, would choose the torture?
The only way they would is if they have a very limited imagination regarding the scope of pain and torture.
Torture can include solitary confinement. Guaranteed insanity right there. Especially if it's in a red room. And that's only the basest of psychological torture. It gets much, much worse.
As for physical pain, just a pain ray would tear your mind apart due to the pain. (click for details).
Since this is/was a hypothetical, part of the implied torture is that you would never, ever be released. You would never see the person you helped ever again. In a scenario of pure torture, you would probably never see another human being ever again. There is absolutely no logical reason to choose to continue existing in such a state.
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"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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