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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/19/2008 2:03:50 PM
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jlp1
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You can be humble and still be confident but not arrogant and humble, the two don't go together. Humility is one of the qualities I find best in people men and women.
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/19/2008 2:13:24 PM
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WaitingforBoaz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jlp1
You can be humble and still be confident but not arrogant and humble, the two don't go together. Humility is one of the qualities I find best in people men and women.
This is exactly what I thought when I read your op Sam.....if you observe someone ministering you can usually pick up some very good clues about whether or not they are confident in Christ.....giving God the glory.....or if they are putting on a show of spirituality and are just plain arrogant. I am not saying to judge everyones motives, but if you are considering dating someone, I do not feel it is wrong to judge their character before you proceed.KWIM
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"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams.... he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours." - Henry David Thoreau
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/19/2008 3:42:44 PM
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hotsaucygma
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Confidence is trust in or a belief in someone or yourself and their/your abilities, it's not doubting. Arrogance is feeling superior to others, having a superior manor.
A man or woman with confidence does not have to make someone else feel inferior if they disagree with them. They do not have to tell people they are wrong.
It's all in the attitude, imo.
ETA:
I wanted to add- a person that is confident can listen to others, can consider the "value" in another's point of view or position or feelings and learn from it, they don't have to think they already know it all.
< Message edited by hotsaucygma -- 6/19/2008 3:50:15 PM >
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Dear Lord, let my words today be as sweet and delicious as cheesecake... for tomorrow I may have to eat them!
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/19/2008 5:10:40 PM
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wfisaac
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quote:
How do you go about determining whether it truly is confidence, or if they are flat out arrogant? Would it affect whether or not you continue to date them?
My initial thought is those who are confident still value others but it seems people who are arrogant don't seem to have much value in others.
I know sometimes confidence can come across as arrogant at first or vise versa, so I know sometimes it requires time and of course the leading of the Holy Spirit to discern. But if I were to discern that it was arrogance, then no, I wouldn't continue to date them.
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/19/2008 6:43:44 PM
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Cloak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wfisaac
quote:
How do you go about determining whether it truly is confidence, or if they are flat out arrogant? Would it affect whether or not you continue to date them?
My initial thought is those who are confident still value others but it seems people who are arrogant don't seem to have much value in others.
I know sometimes confidence can come across as arrogant at first or vise versa, so I know sometimes it requires time and of course the leading of the Holy Spirit to discern. But if I were to discern that it was arrogance, then no, I wouldn't continue to date them.
That's a good point Veronica. Thanks for the insight!
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Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 12:19:36 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
Confidence is trust in or a belief in someone or yourself and their/your abilities, it's not doubting. Arrogance is feeling superior to others, having a superior manor. I really like this hsgma. It reminds me of something one of my pastors once shared with me...........
As part of Master's Commission student's were required to teach a lesson once a week. As their instructor, and leader, my pastor attended each lesson.
One week a young lady was preaching on a topic and my Pastor was finding fault with her presentation and thoughts behind the verses she was teaching on. He was thinking arrogantly that though not wrong the student did not really grasp all God was saying. God had shown him so much more to the verse.
God convicted him and he realized that his "I have all the answers" mentality was preventing him for hearing God speak through her teaching.
He knew he needed to humble himself and submit to her teaching. He literally moved near her and sat at her feet........
When he did God spoke powerfully into his life.
The lesson he shared with me........that when we think we know all the answers we often close ourselves off from hearing God from a new perspective.
I think arrogant people, who believe they know all the answers, actually have less confidence in themselves.
I use to be arrogant. When I first started to hear from God. God spoke so powerfully to me through the bible that I thought anyone who struggled with the Bible speaking to them just was not listening.
I also thought God was giving me all the answers.
What I have found out, as my relationship with the Lord has grown, is God will speak to us anyway we are willing to listen.
I have found out that just when I think I know all the answers God has something new to show me.
I think you can be confident in what God is showing you, what you know to be truth, and still realize that the truth you know now is not even close to the whole truth.
Interesting thought........
If God intended us to live our lives seeing black and white why did you create so many colors?
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Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 3:06:44 PM
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Blazingson
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I believe that arrogance is actually pretty rare. In my experience it is a label thrown about by those who are jealous of the self-confidence shown by others.
As they experience that confidence, their own feelings of inadequacey or inferiorty color their perceptions, twisting that display of confidence into and attitude of superiorty.
If they can paint others with the brush of arrogance, they can bring others down in their own eyes and feel better about themselves.
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*Eric G.*
Matthew 5:16
Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 3:51:40 PM
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shemaromans
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Blazingson
I believe that arrogance is actually pretty rare. In my experience it is a label thrown about by those who are jealous of the self-confidence shown by others.
As they experience that confidence, their own feelings of inadequacey or inferiorty color their perceptions, twisting that display of confidence into and attitude of superiorty.
If they can paint others with the brush of arrogance, they can bring others down in their own eyes and feel better about themselves.
A wise and insightful post, Blazingson. Thank you.
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 4:02:02 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
In my experience it is a label thrown about by those who are jealous of the self-confidence shown by others. There is a difference between being self-confidence and arrogant. Self confidence is believing in yourself........arrogant is believing that everyone should believe exactly as you believe and if they don't they are wrong.
quote:
As they experience that confidence, their own feelings of inadequacy or inferiority color their perceptions, twisting that display of confidence into and attitude of superiority. Someone who has self confidence does not need everyone to agree with him.
I agree, in some cases, people with feelings of inadequacy or inferiority, will think someone who is confidence displays an attitude of superiority. When this happens the person with confidence talks kindly, listens and attempts to share his point of view.
An arrogant person, on the other hand, will not attempt to listen because he already knows all the answers. He will repeat over and over what he believes as though he feels threatened listening to another's point of view.
I have found in my experience, those who are confident in what they believe, are not afraid of being asked question nor are they afraid of listening to someone else's opinion.
One of the most frustrating thing I have found on line is when someone enters a discussion, says the other person is wrong and why they believe so, then ends with a closing comment such as I will not discuss this further.
A confident person doesn't feel challenged or threatened when some one questions their statements or beliefs. He/she is eager to discuss the topic, listen to the other person and admits they can learn something from the other person even if they disagree with what they say.
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 4:05:34 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
The arrogant person needs to constantly build themselves up either by constantly blowing their own horn or putting down others. The confident person does neither of these things as they are confident in themselves and don't have the need to constantly build themselves up by bragging about themselves or belittling others.
Very true Trainfan...........very true
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Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 4:34:51 PM
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shemaromans
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quote:
One of the most frustrating thing I have found on line is when someone enters a discussion, says the other person is wrong and why they believe so, then ends with a closing comment such as I will not discuss this further.
I agree, Joy, that this can be frustrating. However, I don't think it's always due to arrogance (I'm not saying that you're making a blanket, generalized statement about this).
There have been times that I've posted my opinion only to have several people make gross inferences about my meaning. There are numerous reasons for that. Whatever the reason, sometimes it becomes too much of a job trying to correct the erroneous conclusions and accusations and still also have time to discuss the topic at hand. Sometimes, especially with a busy life, it's easier to bow out of the conversation.
God also wants us to be gracious. I assume that many times when people withdraw from a discussion, it's because they sense rising emotions and potential hurt or they're the obect of snarkiness. They'd rather discontinue their participation rather than contribute to the dissension and conflict.
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 4:54:20 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
Whatever the reason, sometimes it becomes too much of a job trying to correct the erroneous conclusions and accusations and still also have time to discuss the topic at hand. I
Sometimes, especially with a busy life, it's easier to bow out of the conversation. I agree with what you are saying in some situations Shemaromans.
My question would be why, if time is a factor,do they take the time to make sure their side is heard before ending the discussion? It implies what they have to say is important but not what the other person has to say. That in my opinion is where the arrogance comes into play.
In post if the job of trying to correct the erroneous conclusions and accusations becomes time consuming and is a distraction from the topic at hand the person has two choices.
1. They can ignore the accusations and address the topic in the OP
2. They can gracefully bow out of the discussion without posting a rebuttal.
IMHO when a person post a rebuttal, stating why the other person is wrong or making statement directly to another and then tells the other person they will no longer be participating in the discussion........it is basically saying.......this is what I have to say and I will not listen to what you have to say.......to me that is arrogance.
I think that is the biggest difference between arrogance and confidence........arrogance wants to say what it has to say and not give the other an opportunity to reply......thus implying I am right you are wrong and I am not going to listen to you anymore.
A confident person either walks away without having the last say or ignores the comments and directs the conversation back to the topic of the OP.
I think another difference between arrogance and confidence is a defensive feeling. A confident person has no problem answering questions in a discussion and does not feel defensive when someone disagrees with them.
quote:
God also wants us to be gracious. I assume that many times when people withdraw from a discussion, it's because they sense rising emotions and potential hurt or they're the obect of snarkiness. They'd rather discontinue their participation rather than contribute to the dissension and conflict. I agree.......I have seen many who have gracefully backed out of a discussion.....
It is only when a person first responds with their own snarkines or addresses the person directly, with quotes, then only after making sure their point has been made states they are leaving the discussion that I see leaving a discussion as somewhat arrogant.
< Message edited by joy2give2u -- 6/20/2008 5:05:52 PM >
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 5:01:21 PM
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shemaromans
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How do we know that the person who bows out doesn't continue to lurk and listen (  )? to pray about the topic in private? to discuss it elsewhere?
I understand what you're saying, but I also believe that we should give the person(s) the benefit of the doubt.
As for having the last word, many people have that tendency, even in friendly, chit-chatty, joking conversations. That's human nature and doesn't necessarily imply arrogance.
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 5:16:12 PM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
As for having the last word, many people have that tendency, even in friendly, chit-chatty, joking conversations. That's human nature and doesn't necessarily imply arrogance. Like we are doing here LOL
quote:
How do we know that the person who bows out doesn't continue to lurk and listen ( )? to pray about the topic in private? to discuss it elsewhere? That is great and I think often what happens but it still doesn't address why a person would first have to make sure they responded to the statements. There have been many time I have backed out of a discussion because I did not like the tone or felt others were reading what I wrote wrong......I think backing out, praying about it and maybe even discussing it with another is great........Where the arrogance comes into play is how they back out.....making a point of replying in detail before backing out speaks of arrogance IMHO.
And since this thread is about whether we would date someone who is arrogant I will share an experience based on a relationships in real life. There is a gentleman I know at another church in town. He does not believe in faith healing so whenever someone begins sharing a story about a healing he starts sharing why he does not believe in faith healing.
Now his sharing why he does not believe in it does not make him arrogant. What does is that he will go on and on about what he believes but as soon as someone, who disagrees with him, begins to talk, he says I am done talking about it. He wants to have his voice heard but is not willing to listen to another speak.......to me this is arrogance.
Earlier I mentioned my pastor.........In my opinion he showed great confidence in what God had spoken to him, so much so, he was not threatened by sitting under the teaching of another even if he felt he knew more.......and what happened when he took the time to really listen, even though, he thought he had all the answers? He learned a new perspective........God spoke to him.
I would not date a man who was so arrogant, so sure he is right, that he is not willing to listen to another.
< Message edited by joy2give2u -- 6/20/2008 5:22:56 PM >
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Transformation happens NOT when we get through scripture BUT when scripture gets through Us
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 7:01:41 PM
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woodwind228
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I would not date someone that was arrogant. Confident, yes...arrogant, definitely not. I think the more like Jesus they are, the more humble they will be. If they're humble, they're not gonna be arrogant. Pride and arrogance are so similar and, as it's said, pride comes before the fall.
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These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world. --John 16:33 KJV
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/20/2008 7:15:17 PM
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Blazingson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
In my experience it is a label thrown about by those who are jealous of the self-confidence shown by others. There is a difference between being self-confidence and arrogant. Self confidence is believing in yourself........arrogant is believing that everyone should believe exactly as you believe and if they don't they are wrong.
quote:
As they experience that confidence, their own feelings of inadequacy or inferiority color their perceptions, twisting that display of confidence into and attitude of superiority. Someone who has self confidence does not need everyone to agree with him.
I agree, in some cases, people with feelings of inadequacy or inferiority, will think someone who is confidence displays an attitude of superiority. When this happens the person with confidence talks kindly, listens and attempts to share his point of view.
An arrogant person, on the other hand, will not attempt to listen because he already knows all the answers. He will repeat over and over what he believes as though he feels threatened listening to another's point of view.
I have found in my experience, those who are confident in what they believe, are not afraid of being asked question nor are they afraid of listening to someone else's opinion.
One of the most frustrating thing I have found on line is when someone enters a discussion, says the other person is wrong and why they believe so, then ends with a closing comment such as I will not discuss this further.
A confident person doesn't feel challenged or threatened when some one questions their statements or beliefs. He/she is eager to discuss the topic, listen to the other person and admits they can learn something from the other person even if they disagree with what they say.
When a self-confident person "...talks kindly, listens and attempts to share his point of view" the person with feelings of inadequacy or inferiority automatically go on the defensive with accusations of the self-confident person being condescending or talking down to them. You see, it's a no win situation. Everything a self-confident person does will be twisted into arrogance by those who have no confidence. If you have a healthy self image, you will feel no threat from those who are arrogant simply because they are truly pitiable people. The arrogant people I have known will listen calmly, patiently, and even kindly to everything you have to say and even agree with your right to believe the way you do, but they listen only so they can point out to you the error in your beliefs and opinions.
The types of people you describe as refusing to listen to others express their thoughts and opinions or strenuously voice their thoughts at every opportunity without giving others a chance to speak are doing so because they are afraid of being proved wrong. It is a classic symptom of the inadequacy or inferiority complex. To allow someone else to voice a stronger argument or giving them an opportunity to prove themselves wrong is unbearable to them.
The truly arrogant possess none of those fears. They'll offer a kind ear then proceed to point out why you're wrong. Usually in a public and humiliating way. They will allow you to offer an opinion or plan of action, then smile sweetly and go about things their own way all the while shaking their head at "the poor, deluded, little man who thought he had a good idea."
There is where the difference lies. The self-confident will listen with the willingness to learn from others. Those who are arrogant will listen only so they can tell you why they are right and you are wrong. Those who are truly arrogant are convinced they are never wrong and delight in telling you why. The self-confident willingly admit when they are wrong and readily incorporate the new knowledge without taking offense.
And to answer the OP, I wouldn't date someone I believed to be arrogant. Self-confident, definitely. That's important to me but arrogance crosses that line.
< Message edited by Blazingson -- 6/20/2008 7:26:24 PM >
_____________________________
*Eric G.*
Matthew 5:16
Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/21/2008 12:47:54 AM
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Prairiehiker
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Oftentimes, what we perceive as arrogance is really an insecure person's way of dealing with his inadequacies. There are insecure people who shows their insecurities, and there are some who cannot allow themselves to feel insecure and need the admiration of other people to feel good about themselves. So, they display their strength and masked their weaknesses.
A truly confident person has nothing to prove to anyone so they don't have a need to appear superior. Of course, depending on their personality, they might still appear arrogant to some. If a person is quiet, people mistake their quiet confidence as being smug and snobbish and uppity.
I think I fall in between. When I'm insecure around people, I display those arrogant qualities like talking about myself too much (ooops, I'mdoing it again, lol) which makes me want to kick myself because I feel like a fool inside. There's areas that I'm truly confident in that I don't have a need to talk about them.
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but those who hope in the LORD
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They will soar on wings like eagles;
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they will walk and not be faint....Isaiah 40: 31
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/21/2008 9:37:14 AM
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Cloak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Oftentimes, what we perceive as arrogance is really an insecure person's way of dealing with his inadequacies. There are insecure people who shows their insecurities, and there are some who cannot allow themselves to feel insecure and need the admiration of other people to feel good about themselves. So, they display their strength and masked their weaknesses.
A truly confident person has nothing to prove to anyone so they don't have a need to appear superior. Of course, depending on their personality, they might still appear arrogant to some. If a person is quiet, people mistake their quiet confidence as being smug and snobbish and uppity.
I think I fall in between. When I'm insecure around people, I display those arrogant qualities like talking about myself too much (ooops, I'mdoing it again, lol) which makes me want to kick myself because I feel like a fool inside. There's areas that I'm truly confident in that I don't have a need to talk about them.
That's a smart point prairie! Please Don't feel bad about yourself when you engage in these moments with these people. We all find ourselves in unpleasant situations. I used to think naively that since I am Christian I would always be in good company and no one would hurt me.
In retrospect, I find that the more Christian and mature I become; the more I experience nasty and unpleasant things happen to me which is the price we pay for our fellowship with God and thus we need to press in and on!
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Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/21/2008 11:02:41 AM
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Blazingson
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quote:
You must have forums posting experience, Blazingson.... either that or you're really confident
Some of both, I think. I have experience with posting in forums and I would like to believe that I have a healthy self-image.
_____________________________
*Eric G.*
Matthew 5:16
Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/21/2008 11:27:22 AM
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trainfan
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quote:
When a self-confident person "...talks kindly, listens and attempts to share his point of view" the person with feelings of inadequacy or inferiority automatically go on the defensive with accusations of the self-confident person being condescending or talking down to them. You see, it's a no win situation. Everything a self-confident person does will be twisted into arrogance by those who have no confidence.
This can occur when the self confident person lacks tact.
quote:
If you have a healthy self image, you will feel no threat from those who are arrogant simply because they are truly pitiable people.
Ditto.
quote:
The arrogant people I have known will listen calmly, patiently, and even kindly to everything you have to say and even agree with your right to believe the way you do, but they listen only so they can point out to you the error in your beliefs and opinions.
The types of people you describe as refusing to listen to others express their thoughts and opinions or strenuously voice their thoughts at every opportunity without giving others a chance to speak are doing so because they are afraid of being proved wrong. It is a classic symptom of the inadequacy or inferiority complex. To allow someone else to voice a stronger argument or giving them an opportunity to prove themselves wrong is unbearable to them. The truly arrogant possess none of those fears. They'll offer a kind ear then proceed to point out why you're wrong. Usually in a public and humiliating way. They will allow you to offer an opinion or plan of action, then smile sweetly and go about things their own way all the while shaking their head at "the poor, deluded, little man who thought he had a good idea." There is where the difference lies. The self-confident will listen with the willingness to learn from others. Those who are arrogant will listen only so they can tell you why they are right and you are wrong. Those who are truly arrogant are convinced they are never wrong and delight in telling you why. The self-confident willingly admit when they are wrong and readily incorporate the new knowledge without taking offense.
This is all very insightful and a very good post but these people don't fit the definition of arrogant that I posted earlier. Which is:
quote:
Webster's definition of arrogant:
exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner
I had to think back to people I worked with who I thought were arrogant and others I thought were confident and concluded that the arrogant ones did have the symptoms of inadequacy as you described but they use arrogance (as it is defined) to cover it up. One person in particular did this continually to the point that he got a nickname that reflected his constant exaggerations but that didn't stop him he just continued on the same path.
Generally the most arrogant people I have met are the least confident and most incompetent people I have met. They fit Websters definition to a tee by using exaggerartion in combination with belittling of others to get ahead.
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RE: Confidence or Arrogance? - 6/21/2008 11:46:44 AM
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Blazingson
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quote:
quote:
The arrogant people I have known will listen calmly, patiently, and even kindly to everything you have to say and even agree with your right to believe the way you do, but they listen only so they can point out to you the error in your beliefs and opinions.
The types of people you describe as refusing to listen to others express their thoughts and opinions or strenuously voice their thoughts at every opportunity without giving others a chance to speak are doing so because they are afraid of being proved wrong. It is a classic symptom of the inadequacy or inferiority complex. To allow someone else to voice a stronger argument or giving them an opportunity to prove themselves wrong is unbearable to them. The truly arrogant possess none of those fears. They'll offer a kind ear then proceed to point out why you're wrong. Usually in a public and humiliating way. They will allow you to offer an opinion or plan of action, then smile sweetly and go about things their own way all the while shaking their head at "the poor, deluded, little man who thought he had a good idea." There is where the difference lies. The self-confident will listen with the willingness to learn from others. Those who are arrogant will listen only so they can tell you why they are right and you are wrong. Those who are truly arrogant are convinced they are never wrong and delight in telling you why. The self-confident willingly admit when they are wrong and readily incorporate the new knowledge without taking offense.
This is all very insightful and a very good post but these people don't fit the definition of arrogant that I posted earlier. Which is:
quote:
Webster's definition of arrogant:
exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner
The phrases I have highlighted in bold type indicate, I believe, an exaggeration of ones own worth or importance and the overbearing manner common to arrogant people. My step-dad, bless his inflated head, treats me this way. Everytime I offer something, he tells me why I'm wrong and why the plan won't work while making sure that everybody else is paying attention. That is certainly overbearing. And it is a complete mystery to him why anyone would listen to anybody else but him. That is definitely an exaggerated sense of his own worth or importance.
I don't think we are disagreeing much.
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*Eric G.*
Matthew 5:16
Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
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