RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity....

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Prairiehiker -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/22/2008 9:39:10 PM)
Is obedient to Christ borne out of responsibility and obligation a credible sign of true Christianity? Isn't our obedience to Christ be out of our love for Him? And if a Christian hasn't yet developed that love relationship with Jesus, do we bible slap them into obedience when their heart isn't into it. The big question isn't about their wishy washiness? It's how we, as maturing Christians show them a way to live the Christian life so that we develop a love and strong relationship with our saviour. Criticizing them to death, and scripture slapping them isn't going to produce a heart that's on fire for our Lord. I don't think our God really wants an obedience to his law without a real relationship with Him.

pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/22/2008 11:23:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 If a church exhibits the fruits of the spirit, has good works, people are being transformed, does it matter if they follow all of "your" rules? I am afraid it looks like its a church that doesn't have the same traditions as "your" church has. I struggle with the fact that you keep saying "your" church. I am thinking that you mean this in the general sense... at least I hope so. The fact is, is that there are wishy-washy people in "my" church AND in "your" church. There are wishy-washy people everywhere... however wishy-washy Christians get my goat more than others. Why? Because we have the book... we have the directions... and we have a mighty God who is more than willing to assist us in our day-to-day growth. quote: Some times people might seem wishy washy but it just might be...something God has them going through to mature them...or they have come from a legalist background and have gone too far the other way....or just maybe its something we can't judge. Something from their past. Something we have not experienced. Let me clarify a little more. I am not talking about people who are in a time of growth with God and may have a new revelation that they gave come into. No... you can tell these folks... you know that it is the growth of spiritual maturity taking place. I am talking about men or women who have been in the church for a good while... those who go to Bible study... go to Sunday services... go to all the functions. They have had years under their belt, yet have chosen to stay in a complacent, apathetic state... not learning, not growing. They are double-minded and can be easily swayed. I'm not refering to those precious souls who actually want to draw closer and closer to Christ. quote: To me, a true wishy washy church is a luke warm one. It does not teach Christ crucifed and says there asre other ways to heaven besides Christ. It doesn't convict its people through the sermon. This is very true, however, I would say that is wishy-washy leadership. Like I said... there are wishy-washy Christians in every church. The same as there are apathetic ones, pompous holier-than-thou ones, lazy ones, legalistic ones... and on and on. So... how should a "Christian" be? I guess that's a subject for a new thread! [;)]

pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/22/2008 11:56:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker Is obedient to Christ borne out of responsibility and obligation a credible sign of true Christianity? Isn't our obedience to Christ be out of our love for Him? And if a Christian hasn't yet developed that love relationship with Jesus, do we bible slap them into obedience when their heart isn't into it. The big question isn't about their wishy washiness? It's how we, as maturing Christians show them a way to live the Christian life so that we develop a love and strong relationship with our saviour. Criticizing them to death, and scripture slapping them isn't going to produce a heart that's on fire for our Lord. I don't think our God really wants an obedience to his law without a real relationship with Him. Whoa... slow down Mario. [:D] No-one is slapping anyone with their bibles or hitting them with scripture or their rules or any other form of violence. I'm simply saying that there are some folks out there who don't want to grow any further than they have... they allow themselves to be tossed to and fro... they are double-minded, etc. No-one is trying to slap these folks into anything... that's God's job. And from what I read from our gracious and loving Father in Heaven is that He, quite frankly, doesn't think much of them either since He says He will "spew them from His mouth." That's a pretty vivid picture... and I for one, do not want to end up as puke! [:)]

KnowJesus -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/23/2008 1:56:03 AM)
quote: I am talking about men or women who have been in the church for a good while... those who go to Bible study... go to Sunday services... go to all the functions. They have had years under their belt, yet have chosen to stay in a complacent, apathetic state... not learning, not growing. They are double-minded and can be easily swayed. I'm not referring to those precious souls who actually want to draw closer and closer to Christ Pstrdebi....Ditto. Not to say, I haven't been there myself....There WAS a season that I personally went through. I like to prefer it to a spiritual drought (or wishy washy syndrome...lol)..... My relationship with the Lord wasn't severed (of course), but I was growing little during this time. And yes, I was swayed and I was lazy, allowing everyone else to study and teach me, rather than dig in the Word and even thirst for it. Not that I didn't love the Lord, but my actions were not showing it. I found myself more of a Martha (so to speak) in my priorities; shifting to church, family and then God (in MY thoughts). But thank God, the Holy Spirit convicted me to what I was doing wrong and straightened me out. I'm certain others had been praying for me, too, during this desert time. Once I turned from my ways, the Lord returned my hunger for His word, and my prayer life got back on track, too. And I was eager once again, to share Christ and get growing. Having learned from my experience, I hope to never visit that desert again. I love growing in Him and delighting in my relationship with Him. Let's be praying for those wishy-washy, luke-warm-ies, so God can bring them back to a RIGHT relationship with Him...AND grow them according to His good purpose.

RJR_fan -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/23/2008 3:14:04 AM)
quote: Unless we build our lives upon the solid Rock (of God's Word) - we are in danger of becoming 'wishy-washy' likewise. Most of us grew up in an environment that was carefully designed to impart passivity and rote obedience. When the Prussians suffered embarrassing defeats from Napoleon's armies, they devised a scientific plan to make sure that this never happened again. They redesigned their children. 1.5% of the kids, the children of the ruling elites, continued to receive traditional educations. Educations designed to demand and develop rigorous thinking skills and self-confidence. 4.5% of the kids qualified for a "talented and gifted" program that permitted thought along rigorously designed channels -- so that they could be the doctors, professors, teachers, and other high-functioning servitors of The State. The remaining 94% of the kids were marched away from their weeping families at bayonet-point, and given a crash course in conformity. Nothing, they learned, was worth thinking about, unless it was at the lockstep behest of a State employee. And nothing was worth thinking about for more than 50 minutes. Once an hour, someone blew a horn, and every thought stopped so that the regimented kids could, at the behest of a State employee, cease thinking about one "subject," and begin thinking about another. A hundred years ago, "teachers colleges" in the USA got most of their funding from private "charitable" foundations, so that government employees could "educate" us out of our ornery independence, and transform us into docile factory hands and cannon fodder. Most of us grew up with our time regimented by bells. Needing to ask permission even to use the bathroom. In an environment where no Deity higher than the State could be seriously acknowledged. And we thought that was a normal childhood. We as a people ended up being so thoroughly brainwashed that the Southern Baptist Convention is cool with California kids being indoctrinated in the sodomite perspective. Not even that, the SBC tells its members, is reason enough to jump ship -- or build lifeboats. Back to the original point (is that what OP stands for?) ... imagine a man standing on a bee, crushing it into the sand. Sometimes, the bee will still struggle out of the sand, test out its damaged wings, make adjustments, and start to fly again. Most of us had the full weight of the State applied to us, to crush us into predesigned molds. (see Rom. 12:1,2) Given this background, only the grace of God makes it possible for us to transcend our conditioning. Those with eyes to see do everything possible to spare their children from Satan's plan to crush their souls. We are so aware of the 1990 Germans called "walls in the mind," stubborn zones of resistance in our own character to the plans, power, and purposes of God. We want better for our kids.

oldmethuselah -> HALF a Dozen of One, SIX of the Other... (6/23/2008 6:36:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker Why do we worry so much about wishy washy Christianity and Not even bat an eye on the dead, law centred religiosity. Bottom line is Christianity is a relationship with Jesus borne out of abiding love for him. We are reconciled to God because of this relationship. Not because we can follow some rules, and display how obedient we are. Most Christians I see are really dead inside, and are displaying obedient to God but there's no love coming out of their hearts. They are condemning of everyone who are Not as religious as they are. Actually, Prairiehiker, you are HALF right... GROUP A 50% of the IRATE ANNOYED - in general - worry about the lax and wishy washy - they are usually Republicans and engage in the RIDICULOUS RAGING RHETORIC OF THE RIGHT GROUP B the OTHER 50% of the IRATE ANNOYED - in general - worry about the dead pompous religiousity of those Pharisee-like of Group A - they are usually Democrats and engage in the LOONEY LIBERAL LITURGY OF THE LEFT of course, then there's all us SANE people in the middle who look down on both groups with disdain... HANG ON... that puts us in ... umm... MAUDLIN MEANINGLESS MIASMA OF THE MIDDLE,,,, (The TRUE Wishy-Washies~) [:D][:D][:D]

URForgiven -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/23/2008 9:41:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pstrdebi ...however wishy-washy Christians get my goat more than others. These folks reveal more about ourselves than they do anything else. Perhaps that is the reason God has them be who they are - where they are? [;)] Peace

SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/23/2008 10:52:51 AM)
quote: I struggle with the fact that you keep saying "your" church. I am thinking that you mean this in the general sense... at least I hope so. Hence, the quotes. Yes it is in a general sence. quote: The fact is, is that there are wishy-washy people in "my" church AND in "your" church. I would think if a church had 50% wishy washy people in it...its doing really really well. quote: I am talking about men or women who have been in the church for a good while... those who go to Bible study... go to Sunday services... go to all the functions. They have had years under their belt, yet have chosen to stay in a complacent, apathetic state... not learning, not growing Have you ever wondered why people would sit through church and be around church people and go to a bible study...and not pay attention? I wonder if their pride gets in the way. I wonder if its...the preaching. It doesn't make much sence to me to sit through and hour long service, many times its longer than an hour, not to learn...something. The short answer I guess is..they are not saved. The bible is a mystery to them no matter how much scripture they can spout. Don't you think oldmethuselah, that one's politics, as a christian, would reflect their spiritual beliefs? Is the question what a christian should be.....or is it how can we tell from outside appearences if someone is a christian? I am not sure outside appearences is always a good way to discern. Some wishy washy christians are just immature ones. They can be in immaturity for a long time, I guess. I know I have a lot of growing to do. I presume there are a few like me, though I am not sure I would call that wishy washy. Probably what is needed is true discipleship. Accountability partners. Mentorship. More than just sermons and ministries and functions. Real personal involvements. If there was true accountability in the church...maybe "you" ( in the general sence ) would have fewer people in church but more christians.

deliveredarling -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/23/2008 11:46:15 AM)
quote: Have you ever wondered why people would sit through church and be around church people and go to a bible study...and not pay attention? I wonder if their pride gets in the way. I wonder if its...the preaching. It doesn't make much sence to me to sit through and hour long service, many times its longer than an hour, not to learn...something. This reminds me of a real life situation with a friend of mine. She is currently going through this. She is wishy washy. She found herself working in the ministry. While that is noble........ She has no root foundation. Her desire to be a minister , has clouded her desire to serve God. She found self fulfillment rather than joy of the Lord. She is miserable and lonely right now because all of her projects have left her and moved on. The problem is, she is stuck in the same boat she originally got on. This is the danger of wishy washiness to the body. How can we lead another, if we don't know where we are going or where our strength comes from? I am watching my friend sink to the very depths of hell. When presented with the Word of God, she rejected it, saying that is not what she was hearing. I did not "win my brother". The people she has "helped" have return to their drugged out, strung out state, one is in jail, (returning to prison for a parole violation). There is no strength in wishy washy. God did not call any of us to this state. Why we accept it, I don't know. He does not accept it and will not tolerate it. He tells us very plainly, let your yes be yes and your no be no. How much clearer do we need? I tried to give an example of the dangers of it. Did her choices help her or her projects? I she truly wants to serve the Lord, then she must, as in all fence riders, trust Him ALONE. Not sure why we keep getting caught up in the rules and religiosity bit. Don't really even see what that has to do with wishy washy, other than if your yes isn't yes and your no isn't no- You have a problem and need to pick a side. Edited to add: The point of this scenario was to say that people can wrap themselves up in and identity (thus sitting in church for an hour to get nothing out of it) and not know who they are in Christ. It is a mask, something to hide behind in order to gain acceptance from a particular group. Especially when acceptance from other groups is not happening. My friend has latched onto this concept because of the love she feels from the brothers and sisters, yet she won't give up her identity to let Christ define who He wants her to be. I think we can all see this in the wishy washy. Not a criticism, just an observation.

SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/23/2008 8:50:33 PM)
A social christian. Do you believe this person will, stick it out?

oldmethuselah -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/24/2008 4:09:43 PM)
SonInMe Wrote: quote: Don't you think oldmethuselah, that one's politics, as a christian, would reflect their spiritual beliefs? the key word, is "POLITICS" Before he changed, Charle Colson, working for the President, used to "work the evangelicals like puppets" Colson said, "Those Christians THOUGHT they manipulated us, in reality, we knew which buttons to press to manipulate them" Likewise, though he was an occultist and the farthest thing from an evangelical Christian, ADOLF HITLER used to "work the crowds" really well and had the Protestant Church ALMOST completely fooled...with is opening remarks... "As a practising Christian, I....." and then going on about his agenda. Most of the time the POLITICS run the SHOW... NOT the other way around!.... So...in answer to your question, SonInMe, yes I vote, - even went to the trouble of supporting the only pro-life candidate in an election where the others were all abortionists - but I do not put too much faith in the system. It is TOO EASY to wind up Evangelicals to support very unGodly purposes!

SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/24/2008 9:07:23 PM)
Obviously, your faith colors your polticis. I think both sides of the political spectrum, who are christians, support their views with their faith. Conservative christians err on the side of legalism. Liberal christians err on the side of biblical perversion. Generalities for sure, but some truth in that, I think. I guess it depends of you are a consertvative/liberal christian...or a christian conservative/liberal. Yep some put their politics first and that would classify as an idol, I think. Idols, be bad. One thing about idols though....they tend not to promote wishy washiness.

SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/24/2008 9:08:38 PM)
quote: It is TOO EASY to wind up Evangelicals to support very unGodly purposes! Which would be?

oldmethuselah -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/24/2008 9:24:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 quote: It is TOO EASY to wind up Evangelicals to support very unGodly purposes! Which would be? With a few exceptions, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer who paid with his life, Protestant Christians in Germany remained silent while Hitler systematically destroyed (or castrated) a) the mentally ill b) Catholics c) Homosexuals and d)Jews etc. etc. We lived in Germany and we know how Lutheran pastors did not want to make waves in order to protect their little flock. As far as how Colson and his cronies cranked AMERICAN CHRISTIANS up, you might want to read one of his memoirs (I am no expert on American politics and only remember the quote which I already shared)

pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/24/2008 10:23:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling Edited to add: The point of this scenario was to say that people can wrap themselves up in and identity (thus sitting in church for an hour to get nothing out of it) and not know who they are in Christ. It is a mask, something to hide behind in order to gain acceptance from a particular group. Especially when acceptance from other groups is not happening. My friend has latched onto this concept because of the love she feels from the brothers and sisters, yet she won't give up her identity to let Christ define who He wants her to be. I think we can all see this in the wishy washy. Not a criticism, just an observation. This is a large group... and yes, very wishy-washy. They want to be one person in church... but want to continue living with one foot in the world the rest of the time. They profess and claim and stand on the promises... go out that night... get high, get lucky and get in trouble; then turn around and cry in their beer about the situation GOD let them get into! The place where wishy-washy becomes an insult is when the people they are partying with look at them and their actions and say, "Why do I want to be a Christian, you're just like the rest of us." [:@][:o][:'(][&o][8\|]

oldmethuselah -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 12:25:02 AM)
Pastor Debi... I think I know your FAVORITE country and western hit.... It's quite a few years ago now, but I remember the lyrics well... "The Lord knows I'm sinnin'... And sinnin' ain't right! But Me and the Good Lord... Are gonna have us a Good Talk Later Tonight!"

pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 1:13:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah Pastor Debi... I think I know your FAVORITE country and western hit.... It's quite a few years ago now, but I remember the lyrics well... "The Lord knows I'm sinnin'... And sinnin' ain't right! But Me and the Good Lord... Are gonna have us a Good Talk Later Tonight!" Well, I think I vaguely remember that one... but I like a lot of country, as well as rock, classical, jazz, blues, you name it. If we're gonna' pick an old country song, it would have to be Johnny Cash's "God's Gonna Cut You Down" [:D] Go tell that long-tongued liar, Go and tell that midnight rider, Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back-biter. Tell 'em that God's gonna cut 'em down. Tell 'em that God's gonna cut 'em down. Well, my goodness gracious, Let me tell you the news. My head's been wet with the midnight dew. I've been down on bended knee, Talkin' to the man from Galilee. He spoke to me in the voice so sweet, I thought I heard the shuffle of the angel's feet. He called my name and my heart stood still, When he said, "John, go do My will!" Go tell that long-tongued liar, Go and tell that midnight rider, Tell the rambler, the gambler, the back-biter. Tell 'em that God's gonna cut 'em down. Tell 'em that God's gonna cut 'em down. You can run on for a long time. Run on for a long time. Run on for a long time. Sooner or later, gotta cut you down. Sooner or later, gotta cut you down. Or maybe Matthew 24... Matthew twenty-four is knocking at the door, And there can't be too much more to come to pass. Matthew twenty-four is knocking at the door, And a day or one more could be the last. A great bear from the northland has risen from his sleep, And the Army ranks in red are near two hundred million deep. The young and old now prophesy a coming Prince of Peace And last night I dreamed of lightning in the east. [:D][;)][:)][8\|]

RJR_fan -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 4:38:12 AM)
quote: They want to be one person in church... but want to continue living with one foot in the world the rest of the time. The vast majority of American Christians think it's kosher to have agents of the State forcibly indoctrinating their children in the religion of secular humanism for 30 hours a week. They assume it's normal for grimy yellow cattle cars to cart their kids off to a concentration camp every weekday, a faith-free zone where the only Lawgiver and Savior is "The" Government. I mean, the Southern Baptist Convention is cool with K-12 sodomite indoctrination. No problems. That's something Christians can support, right? Not sufficient reason for California parents to abandon "free" public "education," is it? (I'm being sarcastic -- "personally" I'm wildly enthusiastic about heterosexual marriage -- but does that give me the right to impose "my opinions" on the unbelievers around me? I mean, after all, God has nothing to say to the public sphere, the realm of Caesar, does He?) It's so easy to tiptoe around the elephant in the living room, even when it's fouling the punchbowl. It's so easy to obsess about our precious feelings and pious vaporings -- while rendering unto Caesar that which is God's, the children entrusted to our care. Folks, God doesn't care how loudly and passionately we can emote -- if we've already caved on the crucial issue of our day: who owns the family? the future? the children?

pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 1:13:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RJR_fan Folks, God doesn't care how loudly and passionately we can emote -- if we've already caved on the crucial issue of our day: who owns the family? the future? the children? The vast majority of Americans have been "indoctrinated" into the public school system by no choice of their own... it was just the way it was done. That does not mean that the Americans today that have their children in the public school systems have allowed the "state" to own their children or their futures or their families. It doesn't mean they have "caved" nor does it make them wishy-washy. Just because folks send their kids off to school each morning in the Big Yellow Twinkie, doesn't make them bad... nor does it make the schools bad. There are many good, non-wishy-washy Christian teachers out there trying to make a difference. We cannot continually blame the "system" or the "state"... we need to start looking inward, and raise our children in God fearing homes so that when they get to school... they have a foundation to stand on. [8\|]

RJR_fan -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 5:30:09 PM)
quote: hat does not mean that the Americans today that have their children in the public school systems have allowed the "state" to own Many good Christians owned slaves 200 years ago. This did not make them bad or wishy washy. They did the best they could, in the sight of God, to do right by their human cattle. To let them occupy the "N-word heavens" in their churches on Sunday mornings. To expose their slaves to the gospel, and treat them far better than their owners had ever treated them in Africa. After all, that's just the way it was. And God did not call them to make radical changes in their profitable arrangements. That would have been too disruptive of social order, and too much of a sacrifice.

SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 5:43:46 PM)
There is an opposite here that is just as bad. The legalist. The holier than thou christian with forests growing in their eyes. The ones who pass by the injured man in a ditch. The ones who tithe and give offerings...for show....and do not love. The ones who prefer the best seats. The ones who look down on the poorly dressed and impoverished.

RJR_fan -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 6:50:11 PM)
quote: The legalist. The holier than thou christian with forests growing in their eyes. The ones who pass by the injured man in a ditch. Yes, let's go find some of those folks to sneer at! Where should we start looking? [;)]

Prairiehiker -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 6:58:54 PM)
To the Christian fundamentalist, majority of Christians are wishy washy!

oldmethuselah -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 8:31:13 PM)
Actually, debi, the song I quoted was supposed to be the OPPOSITE of what was acceptable to you... it was a tongue in cheek response. [:@]

oldmethuselah -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 8:37:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RJR_fan quote: The legalist. The holier than thou christian with forests growing in their eyes. The ones who pass by the injured man in a ditch. Yes, let's go find some of those folks to sneer at! Where should we start looking? [;)] ah, yes... RJR... but to SNEER at SNEERERS (for that is certainly one of the attributes to which SonInMe was referring) kinda puts us in the awkward position of the pot calling the kettle black. The Trouble is, it is SO human to engage in such antics. One of the GREAT CHAGRINS of the phariseeical legalist in hell, as C.S.Lewis puts it, is to be aware of being in the same place as licentious libertine.

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