RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (Full Version)

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Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 9:42:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Why do we worry so much about wishy washy Christianity and Not even bat an eye on the dead, law centred religiosity. Bottom line is Christianity is a relationship with Jesus borne out of abiding love for him. We are reconciled to God because of this relationship. Not because we can follow some rules, and display how obedient we are. Most Christians I see are really dead inside, and are displaying obedient to God but there's no love coming out of their hearts. They are condemning of everyone who are Not as religious as they are.

I have had some people call me different things at least close to the concept of
quote:

the dead, law centred religiosity
before. [:D] But I sure hope that I am not
quote:

dead inside, and ... displaying [obedience] to God but there's no love coming out of [my heart].
I also hope I have not condemned
quote:

everyone who are Not
like me!

It would be all right with me if you wish to confront me about being "law centered," though, because I would rather explain myself than be an irritation to you.

Not that I think what you said is about me (think: shades of the old song from the '60s, '70s or so: You're so vain, I'll bet you think this [post] is about you; You're so vain...).

But anyway, we all choose the mode of worship that we think is "right," and very few of us attend a congregation we don't think is right (although I, as an extreme exception, I hope, have in the past attended where I knew they were not right).

So, of course, I will say positive things about what I believe and the way I choose to live. [sm=icon_smile.gif] But I hope I have not been confrontational about it, pushy about it, etc.

And reading the rest of the posts, I have also been called legalistic, fundamentalist. [:D][:D][:D]



KnowJesus -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/25/2008 10:59:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

This is a large group... and yes, very wishy-washy. They want to be one person in church... but want to continue living with one foot in the world the rest of the time. They profess and claim and stand on the promises... go out that night... get high, get lucky and get in trouble; then turn around and cry in their beer about the situation GOD let them get into!


I recall in Proverbs the verse that says, "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool returns to his folly."

You say they profess and claim to stand on the promises of God....and go out and do what they do......They are "stupid." And God agrees. Proverbs 12:1" Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge, But he who hates correction is stupid. I should be-careful here, because I don't know them, to say they "hate" instruction, But this verse came to mind, because of their stupidity.


Pastrdebi...This is not what I originally thought your idea of a wishy-washy included. All though, I must come to my own defense since I wrote a testimony of how I viewed myself a wishy-washy, at one time. But your definition here, was not even close to what I was speaking. Personally, I could never go back to partying.......I find what you said very sad. My heart goes out to these who do this, and blame God for their bad choices.[:(]


quote:


The place where wishy-washy becomes an insult is when the people they are partying with look at them and their actions and say, "Why do I want to be a Christian, you're just like the rest of us."
[:@][:o][:'(][&o][8|]



Sad...but true! [:(]



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/26/2008 1:55:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah

Actually, debi, the song I quoted was supposed to be the OPPOSITE of what was acceptable to you... it was a tongue in cheek response. [:@]


I was acquiescing your jocular intention.

Thus: "God's Gonna Cut You Down", ect. [8|][>:]

[:D]



delete123 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 1:23:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

There is an opposite here that is just as bad.

The legalist. The holier than thou christian with forests growing in their eyes. The ones who pass by the injured man in a ditch. The ones who tithe and give offerings...for show....and do not love. The ones who prefer the best seats. The ones who look down on the poorly dressed and impoverished.

SoninMe~
Boy have I ever experienced this and it was not a good thing. Frankly it was quite hurtful. To this person I was not good enough for God, I was not living my life for God, and I was not in God will because of it.
I was all wrong and not saved because I was not reading KJV, was not baptized and didn't have an extra $5.00 at the time to go indulge in a burger.
I was not loving because at the time I was dating a man going through a divorce and if I *loved him or God I would pray reconsilation.

Then in a wink of the eye calls me to pray for more money for them, accusing another member of the congregation of not being saved! Their prayers had more power because when they prayed for someone they became ill, etc....

Oh yes, this person never knew me personally or what I have gone through or what the Lord has brought me through. Spoke to me maybe 3 times. Wow imagine what a discerner this person must be to gain all that knowledge......
and people worry about wishy washy, legalists are more dangerous to the kingdom

CRH



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 1:57:29 PM)

That's not a legalist -- that's a nut!



Walker311 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 2:21:06 PM)

I like wishywashy folks because 1) I can quickly spot them and 2) I don't feel the pressure to get them saved because it is impossible.

I did not say wishywashy Christians because there is no such thing.

God knows how to deal with them and if there is a possibility that they can be saved, He may present something that gets their attention and lets them know that it is a God type event.



DaveW -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 2:40:12 PM)

I have no time to read 3 pages of responses.

However - to the OP - wishywashy believers are those who have not been properly discipled. No one has personally confronted them with their duplicity and made them overcome it.



DaveW -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 2:42:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

I did not say wishywashy Christians because there is no such thing.
So you think that as soon as someone is born again they immediatly become mature believers?



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 3:04:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

I like wishywashy folks because 1) I can quickly spot them and 2) I don't feel the pressure to get them saved because it is impossible.

I did not say wishywashy Christians because there is no such thing.

God knows how to deal with them and if there is a possibility that they can be saved, He may present something that gets their attention and lets them know that it is a God type event.


Hi Walker...

I have to respectfully disagree with you... there are wishy-washy Christians, and God speaks to them in Rev. 3:16 when He says, "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."



Walker311 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 7:58:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

I like wishywashy folks because 1) I can quickly spot them and 2) I don't feel the pressure to get them saved because it is impossible.

I did not say wishywashy Christians because there is no such thing.

God knows how to deal with them and if there is a possibility that they can be saved, He may present something that gets their attention and lets them know that it is a God type event.


Hi Walker...

I have to respectfully disagree with you... there are wishy-washy Christians, and God speaks to them in Rev. 3:16 when He says, "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."


That is ok! I guess it depends on your definition of the term and as to your scripture reference... imagine being vomited out of the mouth of God. What value is God's vomit?



Walker311 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 8:03:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

I did not say wishywashy Christians because there is no such thing.
So you think that as soon as someone is born again they immediatly become mature believers?


I make no judgement on new Christians otherwise no one could be one. My post points to so-called "middle of the road Christian types".

Most WW's (wishywashers) are well aquainted with Christian concepts but do not possess the desire to change their WW ways. I guess I'm saying... once WW always WW. [8D]



SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 8:18:18 PM)

I think its within God's ability to change...anyone.

Unfortunatly there are churches out there that promote wishy washiness. I guess...we can call the Charlie Brown churches. Always preachin' love but not the love of God, that disciplines and tempers and grows the believer.

Encouragement is great and an edifying nature should be apparent in all christians, but we must also...judge one another and rebuke one another and...sharpen that ol' iron.

The sermon should always challenge us. It should communicate our need for God above all else. Too often its just entertainment. If you walk away from your pastor's speach without some conviction, it wasn't...from God.

Being built up starts with a strong firm foundation and that...is God's purity and perfection..and our lack thereof. You can't grow and be built up if you have no foundation. We must know our great need for Christ, to understand Who He is...and who we are.

Without this, its just another feel good club where people go to be comnfortable, eat donuts, go on ski trips and gossip. Wishy washiness is defeated by conviction. Knowing our great need for Christ and recognising His Lordship.



ladyichigo -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 8:24:10 PM)

quote:

What do you think about this and this type of Christianity?


Honestly, they irk me. They irk me because in some ways, I see myself doing the same things in my own walk with Christ, even though it may not be as evident. I see them, and I am quick to judge that they are guilty of continuing to live their old life that does not glorify our Savior and they call themselves Christians and testify that they love God.

Shortly after, I am convicted of my own shortcomings as well.[&o]



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/27/2008 11:05:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

Unfortunatly there are churches out there that promote wishy washiness. I guess...we can call the Charlie Brown churches. Always preachin' love but not the love of God, that disciplines and tempers and grows the believer.


Yes... I've seen some of these... and there is a really, really huge one on TV every day of the week preaching the same wishy-washiness to an audience of millions!!

quote:


Encouragement is great and an edifying nature should be apparent in all christians, but we must also...judge one another and rebuke one another and...sharpen that ol' iron.


Amen... however, not many believe in the whole "judging the brethren" thing. Glad you do.

quote:


The sermon should always challenge us. It should communicate our need for God above all else. Too often its just entertainment. If you walk away from your pastor's speach without some conviction, it wasn't...from God.


This is exactly what we believe... but not many want to be convicted [&o]. They would much rather be entertained with a little ear-tickling on the side.

quote:


Without this, its just another feel good club where people go to be comnfortable, eat donuts, go on ski trips and gossip. Wishy washiness is defeated by conviction. Knowing our great need for Christ and recognising His Lordship.


It's a duty... that's all.

(donuts are ok... aren't they? [:)][8|])



SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/28/2008 7:05:40 AM)

quote:

(donuts are ok... aren't they? )


Certainly and so are many things in church that really....have little to do with serving Christ and more to do with building bonds between us in the form of fellowship.

I would theorize that a church without some fun...is a legalist dead church.

The key is...the rason why you go to church. If all you want is a feel good sermon and lotsa donuts and coffee...then join the elks club. If you need to know God, serve God and be with His people..then....your wishy washy status is revoked.

Its not a sin to have fun...heck...you can even have fun in...church! It is a sin to only want fun.

...and I have no problem with a feel good sermon once in a while too.



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/28/2008 6:14:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

I would theorize that a church without some fun...is a legalist dead church.


And they could quite well think that we are wishy-washy[8|].



lazareth -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/28/2008 11:02:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

I've always liked insipid and vacillating and hope some day that I'll be prayed up enough that I can corner one of those that do it and say something like "you insipid and vacillating person you and walk away. [8D]


Me too [sm=icon_smile_approve.gif]. Someday, somewhere [:D]

quote:


quote:

(thanks Walker311)


Always pleased to git a good Christians' dander all worked up. [8D]


Your playin' with fire here [sm=aside.gif].

DL



RJR_fan -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/29/2008 6:19:04 AM)

quote:

However - to the OP - wishywashy believers are those who have not been properly discipled. No one has personally confronted them with their duplicity and made them overcome it.


Usually, they have been trained to regard their minds as enemy territory, the place where God is irrelevant. And trained very carefully, I might add, for 30 hours a week during their impressionable childhood years. Brainwashed to the point where a sodomy-promoting curriculum can be imposed on their children K-12, and they are perfectly cool with that innovation.

Francis Shaeffer wrote of the folly of "evangelism" that bypasses the mind and aims for direct and unmediated, unreflective experiences. If we invite people to embrace a pleasurable lunacy, a form of non-rational "spiritual experience," sooner or later they will snap back into what they know, deep in their bones, to be true. In real life, in the public sphere, there is no god but Caesar, and John Dewey is his prophet.

Reformation is a multi-generational project, a scholarly project, that takes the life of the mind seriously, and is committed to raising children to think Biblically. To be in on what God is up to in this generation in America is a costly project as well, since God calls us to turn away from Caesar's table, and the "free" fare piled up there.



RJR_fan -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/29/2008 6:23:23 AM)

quote:

Unfortunatly there are churches out there that promote wishy washiness. I guess...we can call the Charlie Brown churches. Always preachin' love but not the love of God, that disciplines and tempers and grows the believer.


Godly and wise delegates to the Southern Baptist Convention gently suggested that it was finally time for California parents to abandon public schools, since the law out there requires the celebration of sodomy K-12 in every class.

The resolution never made it out of committee.

I guess "nice" Christians should not want to rock the boat, overturn the money changer's tables, or suggest that God expects something costly of Christian parents. </sarcasm>



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/29/2008 7:16:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

I have no time to read 3 pages of responses.

However - to the OP - wishywashy believers are those who have not been properly discipled. No one has personally confronted them with their duplicity and made them overcome it.


No-one can make them overcome or change... they have to want it. I have seen many properly discipled and confronted... yet they choose to remain in a state of wishy-washiness.

We all have choices... and God tells us to make that choice. He said,
"Choose this day whom you will serve..."

Way too many choose, self.
[8|]



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/29/2008 7:39:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

Godly and wise delegates to the Southern Baptist Convention gently suggested that it was finally time for California parents to abandon public schools, since the law out there requires the celebration of sodomy K-12 in every class.

The resolution never made it out of committee.

I guess "nice" Christians should not want to rock the boat, overturn the money changer's tables, or suggest that God expects something costly of Christian parents. </sarcasm>


I have seen just as many wishy-washy Christians coming out of Christian Academys/schools and home-school environments.

Just as God is no respector of persons... neither is education.
It all boils down, as I said before, choices. Whether we are schooled at the University of Harvard or the University of Hard Knocks... it's the choices we all make in the end that count.
[:)]



SonInMe1 -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/30/2008 9:22:29 AM)

When you blame anyone or anything for your problems, you are on the first step to wishy washiness.

When its the school's fault kids turn out the way they do, you have placed too much responsibility to raising children on the school.

If the school forms a childs moral base, then I would not blame the school....I would blame the parent/s.

If your church preaches a watered down gospel......see my point? If you don't read the bible and pray for revelation, the wishy washiness ain't your church's fault.

Church is a small part of our relationship with the Lord. Don't blame it for your walk.

Look to yourself.

( All uses of the pronoun "you" and its forms are meant in a general sence and in no way reflects my personal opinion of any poster, past present or future )



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/30/2008 11:31:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

When you blame anyone or anything for your problems, you are on the first step to wishy washiness.

When its the school's fault kids turn out the way they do, you have placed too much responsibility to raising children on the school.

If the school forms a childs moral base, then I would not blame the school....I would blame the parent/s.

If your church preaches a watered down gospel......see my point? If you don't read the bible and pray for revelation, the wishy washiness ain't your church's fault.

Church is a small part of our relationship with the Lord. Don't blame it for your walk.

Look to yourself.


Good post...

quote:


( All uses of the pronoun "you" and its forms are meant in a general sence and in no way reflects my personal opinion of any poster, past present or future )

[:)][:D][;)]



RJR_fan -> Anybody can honk! (6/30/2008 6:06:16 PM)

A basic premise of this conversation is false.

In 18th, 19th, and 20th century American protestantism, "fervor" (the opposite of wishy-washy-ness) was defined as some kind of amorphous state of internal, non-verifiable ecstasy, and the shunning of a handful of taboo items. However, since God is Trinity, and since we are made, in His image, as beings whose humanity requires interpersonal connections, real godliness finds expression in our corporate activities. (See John 13:35 and 17:21) People who walk with God are active in their churches. They may not roll down the aisles or bark like dogs, but they tithe. I strongly suspect (IMHO) that people who walk with God will raise their children in their faith. They will not subcontract the task of educating their children to the systematic and sworn enemies of the Christian faith, the priests of secular humanism.

And, at some point, people who walk with God will find ways to shape their surrounding community, following the strategies Jesus outlines in placed like Matt. 25. Feeding the hungry. Welcoming the strangers. Visiting the prisoners. As an old Roman pagan writer complained, "These Christians not only take care of their own poor, but of ours as well."

Since God is a Trinity, an isolated soul is wishy-washy, unable to resist the pressures of the moment. To walk with God, we need to "connect," on His terms, with our churches, families, and communities.

The Pharisees were great at personal spiritual athletics. God requires more than personal piety of us who bear His Name and image.



As the old bumper sticker put it, "Tithe if you love Jesus. Anybody can honk!"



pstrdebi -> RE: Wishy-Washy Christianity.... (6/30/2008 10:25:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

A basic premise of this conversation is false.


What conversation? the previous posts? what you are about to say?
Please don't take offence... but I have trouble understanding where you are going with all of this.

quote:


In 18th, 19th, and 20th century American protestantism, "fervor" (the opposite of wishy-washy-ness) was defined as some kind of amorphous state of internal, non-verifiable ecstasy, and the shunning of a handful of taboo items. ***However, since God is Trinity, and since we are made, in His image, as beings whose humanity requires interpersonal connections, real godliness finds expression in our corporate activities. (See John 13:35 and 17:21)***
People who walk with God are active in their churches. They may not roll down the aisles or bark like dogs, but they tithe. I strongly suspect (IMHO) that people who walk with God will raise their children in their faith. They will not subcontract the task of educating their children to the systematic and sworn enemies of the Christian faith, the priests of secular humanism.


huh? [&:]

Lets start with the part I highlighted above... you have stated that REAL Godliness finds expression in our corporate activities... and then quoted John. John 13:35 and 17:21 refers to Jesus praying for unity which takes place through the sanctification of believers. There is no reference to any activity (especially school) except for plain old love.

quote:


People who walk with God are active in their churches.


This is plainly not true. There are thousands of people out there who have a relationship with God and don't do diddly in the church. I'm not saying that's right... I'm just tellin' it like it is.

quote:


They may not roll down the aisles or bark like dogs, but they tithe.


I'll tell you what... I would rather have someone out there with a heart for Christ... someone who is on fire for the Lord, any day of the week over their money. TITHING just doesn't cut it with me. There are thousands of people out there who toss a few bucks in the plate and think they've done their "Christian duty."

[8|][sm=aside.gif]



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