Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (Full Version)

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slimon11 -> Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 12:19:11 PM)

I get really turned off of Christian teachers, counselors, authors, etc, once I recognize something they’ve said is not in line with what that the Bible states to be true. This includes some authors and preachers that made a positive impact on my walk with Jesus; I just don’t want to read their books or listen to them at all anymore...

I pick a part movies, books, advice, sermons without a second thought. I didn’t pick a part things before I was Christian. I think it is just that once I read the bible through (after being born again ) part of me remembers what I’ve read in the bible but, I can’t always recall exactly what scripture that aligns with the current situation.

Maybe I have the tendency to be too black or white in my views. A bad feeling comes over me regarding certain things, like red flags. I guess I am looking for suggestions on how to overcome those feelings of such a strong turn off to see the good that is mixed in with the bad.
Thank you!



Roberta_ -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 12:24:38 PM)

I don't see a problem with discernment.



Machaira -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 12:35:21 PM)

Slimon11,

It might help if I knew a little about you. How long have you been a believer and how long have you been studying Scripture and theology, broadly speaking?



Kat_D -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 12:37:39 PM)

quote:

Not throwing the babe out with the bath water.


Go take a look at the Lakeland thread if you want to see what happens to people who live by this sentiment. There is danger in believing that we know enough sound doctrine to be able to separate the lies from the Truth 100% of the time...and if we slip and allow one untruth in, it leaves us wide open to usher in even more harmful theology...then, before we know it, we can fall for someone like Todd Bentley.

God speaks about what happens with just a little leaven...if you hear anything that contradicts the Word of God...flee!



slimon11 -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 1:06:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Machaira

Slimon11,

It might help if I knew a little about you. How long have you been a believer and how long have you been studying Scripture and theology, broadly speaking?

Hello Machaira,
I grew up in a Christian family, hearing bible stories and reading the bible but, did not choose to believe until about 3 years ago. So, it is only within the past three years that I have been properly annoited to read the bible. I've read it cover to cover once since having the Spirit, done weekly group studies for the past 3 years that jump around. I have done all of Beth Moore's studies (I know even she has critics) but, I would consider her one of my main teachers.



Machaira -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 2:10:09 PM)

Hi again Slimon11,

I'm glad to hear of your zeal and devotion. May the Holy Spirit continue to work in you.

You are a "young Christian" relatively speaking and that fresh zeal can be difficult to contain. I would say that as time goes by and you learn more and more about God and His Word, you'll come to see that even well educated theologians continue to struggle to some degree with truth and error. While studying to show yourself an approved workman is very important, maintaining a humble attitude of Christian charity toward other workman is equally important. By all means be discerning and convinced in your own mind about the things you believe, but remember that there are others working just as hard to do the same -- and they may or may not come to the same conclusions. I'm not saying that there aren't BIG errors that should never be tolerated. We just need to be careful that we don't turn molehills into mountains.

Give yourself time to grow and pray for the humble, teachable spirit that only the Holy Spirit can impart to you. I thank you for bringing up this topic because I need to be reminded of these things as well.



earthless -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 4:06:54 PM)

Sounds like you're simply obeying God's Word in testing (judging) all things in light of Scripture. There are a lot of false teachers and false prophets out there on our TV/radio waves.. but take heart that there are some doctrinally sound preachers.



ChristopherJ -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 4:27:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slimon11

I get really turned off of Christian teachers, counselors, authors, etc, once I recognize something they’ve said is not in line with what that the Bible states to be true. This includes some authors and preachers that made a positive impact on my walk with Jesus; I just don’t want to read their books or listen to them at all anymore...

I pick a part movies, books, advice, sermons without a second thought. I didn’t pick a part things before I was Christian. I think it is just that once I read the bible through (after being born again ) part of me remembers what I’ve read in the bible but, I can’t always recall exactly what scripture that aligns with the current situation.

Maybe I have the tendency to be too black or white in my views. A bad feeling comes over me regarding certain things, like red flags. I guess I am looking for suggestions on how to overcome those feelings of such a strong turn off to see the good that is mixed in with the bad.
Thank you!


Slimon,

I have heard preaching described once by means of a metaphor as someone eating a chicken - you eat the meat, and spit out the bones. However, this does not mean that we will listen to any preacher no matter what they preach (the Bible does tell us to be careful about what we listen to). But it does make room for the fact that NO PREACHER - no matter how wise, spiritual, saintly or mature - will ever preach God's truth 100% accurately. So, our responsibility as believers is to 'eat the meat' so to speak - take the good out of it, and apply it to our lives - and spit out the bones, to discard those parts of their messages that don't line up with the Word.

To give you an example from my personal life... although I don't listen to or read His stuff much any more, I used to really enjoy listening to John Macarthur on the radio. Although I am charismatic and believe in the gifts of the Spirit, John is a cessationist. So, when I listened to his stuff (GREAT solid Bible teaching!), whenever he would touch on the gifts, I would just disregard those comments.

Anyway, hope you find my words helpful! The important thing is to learn all we can, but always let God's Word be our final authority. Blessings...



earthless -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 6:00:44 PM)

Chris,

Great points - but the difference(s) you have John Macarthur are on secondary issues. Nothing to divide over.

The difference is that the bulk of those on the television and radio airwaves today are indeed preaching falsely/heretically on the core essentials of Christianity.

The items that blur the line of demarcation between what is biblical Christianity and what is from the kingdom of the cults.

For example, I can't listen (pay heed) to T.D. Jakes or Joel Osteen because of their teachings. With those two examples, it is not simply a matter of "taking the good and leaving the bad..."

Often times I hear many expound what you have regarding the sentiment that "no preacher is 100% correct" - no - but there indeed are many out there that are doctrinally sound.

What's the old adage? "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity."



makarizo -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 6:02:00 PM)

imagine how the pharisees must have felt when they saw Jesus picking grain on the Sabbath.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
1Ti 3:9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!



4IMPersuaded -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 6:53:28 PM)

quote:

I have done all of Beth Moore's studies (I know even she has critics) but, I would consider her one of my main teachers.


I have heard her detractors as well, but what I usually hear are voices of those who have taken her comments out of context or people who are offended by her "call a spade a spade" no nonsense approach to identifying sin as defined by the Word. I have done most of her studies, myself and I am a big fan of her sound, biblical doctrine.

This is not to say that she -- or anyone else is infallable. She is human and flawed (just ask her!). The danger comes in giving your trust over to any one Biblical teacher because people will let you down no matter their good intentions. Really, the responsibility lies on each of us as Christians to be in the Word and know what it says for ourselves. Then, if you know the truth, you are better as recognizing lies. Find mentors and teachers that are Spirit-filled and speak the Truth, but understand that they aren't any more sinless than you or I.

Blessings!



ChristopherJ -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 7:20:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Chris,

Great points - but the difference(s) you have John Macarthur are on secondary issues. Nothing to divide over.

The difference is that the bulk of those on the television and radio airwaves today are indeed preaching falsely/heretically on the core essentials of Christianity.

The items that blur the line of demarcation between what is biblical Christianity and what is from the kingdom of the cults.

For example, I can't listen (pay heed) to T.D. Jakes or Joel Osteen because of their teachings. With those two examples, it is not simply a matter of "taking the good and leaving the bad..."

Often times I hear many expound what you have regarding the sentiment that "no preacher is 100% correct" - no - but there indeed are many out there that are doctrinally sound.

What's the old adage? "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity."


I understand and agree with what you're saying. My comments to Slimon were based on his/her words:
"I get really turned off of Christian teachers, counselors, authors, etc, once I recognize something they’ve said is not in line with what that the Bible states to be true. This includes some authors and preachers that made a positive impact on my walk with Jesus; I just don’t want to read their books or listen to them at all anymore..." If we are speaking about a Christian teacher - sound in doctrine, then the analogy holds true. However, this does not mean we listen to cults or false preachers, you are right!

And I agree with what you wrote about the differences between my beliefs & Johnny Mac's... and I hold strongly to Augustine's credo: "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity." Good thoughts!



deermousie -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 7:26:48 PM)

I grew up in a cult that elevated a man over Jesus in authority. I got saved in my twenties when I finally heard the Gospel, but I struggled over my "roots." I finally realized that no one is higher than Jesus, and people who lie about basic Christian issues (Jesus is God, His death and resurrection pays for sin) are to be understood to be in great error that God condemns (both the error and the person who teaches it).

I'm really touchy, if that's the right word, about truth. If the Bible teaches it, it's true. If the Bible is silent about a subject, I can't make any doctrine about it one way or the other, except to understand it's not as important as the things God *does* tell us about.

One of the main points about end times is that the AntiChrist will be enmeshed in lies. So we are wise to know what the Bible says and doesn't say, and cling to what God has revealed to us. So it's a very good thing to be able to discern good and evil, and it's the mark of a mature Christian to do so:

12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 5



BibleL7 -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 7:31:46 PM)

As one who has been where you are and still pretty much the same, I have read the bible from cover to cover in several versions, I too find at times I am critical of other teachings. I would encourage you to remain critical. Realize who is teaching and if they get the essentials of sin, repentance, being born again, Jesus only, and the doctrine of the Trinity, the basics then realize that there are different thoughts on non-essentials such as angels, take in what is true and avoid any that do not have the core doctrines correct. For the ones with the core doctrines, listen to what they teach and if you disagree then meditate on it and see if there is something you can learn from it, such as perhaps why your position is even more sound. If however it is a little off then you have learned something new. As for movies and such if you watch them with family then discuss with your family where they dont follow the Bible, for many movies especially will not follow Bible to make a more interesting story line. But believe me it is good to check that things are Biblically correct. Keep it up as it will keep you from falling into error as some do. I would also encourage you to keep reading the Bible for many have never read it cover to cover and they are the ones I find are more easily lead into false doctrines. My the Lord bless you in your studies.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Not throwing the babe out with the bath water. (6/22/2008 9:04:26 PM)

I can't remember the author, it was either James McDonald or John McCarthur but in our small group bible study we do the LifeWay series of books and one of these authors proposed the mathimatical probablitiy of Jesus just meeting 8 of the hundreds of prophecies made by the Old Testament.

Not only was there doubt on the statistics involved, the "independant" think tank that came up with this stuff was not only founded by the author but is currently headed by him as well.

That...is an outright lie.



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