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ORIGINAL: mamade45

Hi
I am new to this particular thread but have been lurking for a while. As a black American female I would like to just step in here and present a slightly different point of view than some of the the others. First off I for one AM very thankful to have been born in America. I believe that God allows us to be born where we are for a purpose and to glorify him. Sure there were some terrible things in our history like slavery and persecution of the native Americans. That cannot be denied but everywhere there are humans you will find sin. It is our job not to just moan and complain about all of the social ills and how "hell-bent" this country is but to reach out to our world with the message of hope in Jesus Christ, and we black folks are not exempt from the great commission just because of what has been done to us. Nor do we have the right to hold onto unforgiveness and bitterness. The Bible says in Philippians to think on the good things. I have lived in the inner city, later on the suburbs, and now my husband and I live in the country. I was born in the north and lived there for much of my life but have been in the deep south for nearly 20 years now. We are the only black family on our road but have never had any trouble with our neighbors. In fact these are some of the sweetest people One of the things my parents instilled in us was to expect the best from people because if you go into a neighborhood with a chip on your shoulder expecting to find trouble you will. Yes I know and have experienced racism and sexism in my life and even discrimination for being a christian but and I have lived below the poverty line (food stamps and all) and am now considered upper middle class. So I have been at all ends of the spectrum. Have even been homeless for a while when I was trying to get through college. I will never forget where I came from but what happens to us can either make us bitter or better. I thank God that our country abolished slavery (unlike many of the African countries where it still exists). I am thankful that I could go to school and make a living and did not have to belong to particular Caste group or family. I am thankful that as a woman I have the freedom to be an individual with rights and privileges and not someones'elses' property. Most of all I am thankful that I am in a country where (at least for now) the gospel is still freely preached and I was able to be saved and still able to lead others to Christ. Yes when our own brothers in Africa sold us into slavery, satan meant it for evil but God meant it for good. This was Joseph's mentality about being sold into slavery in Egypt by his brothers and the one I am choosing to adopt. Blessings.
Rochelle

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

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tracydolls, so what is keeping you here? If America is so distasteful to you, why not move? In your opinion, which countries are better?

Just curious.

Israel, I would move there in a New York Minute! Passports, $1600 per person.

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I don't want you to leave but passports only cost $85

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ORIGINAL: 2Preacher

In reading through the posts here today, I have noted many things. Most of them are feelings about this country. Some of them are things which sadden and sometimes even offend me.

I am an ordained minister who lives in the south. I LOVE America, but I am not totally proud of her or much of her history. There have been many things which have happened in our history for which I am thankful. For one the writing of the Constitution of this great nation.

Our Constitution is a document which has endured for almost 250 years. It guarantees the rights and privileges of all of our citizens. It was written with Christian principles in mind by men who for the most part believed in God and the Bible. It was written to be enduring and yet changeable. We can amend it to fit our present day situations and protect our freedoms from those who would wish to take them away. Our founding fathers were some of the wisest men of their time for creating such a document.

Our system of government in this country is something else for which I am thankful. We are a democratic republic i.e. a government of the people, by the people, and for the people rather than a monarchy, dictatorship, or some other less than desirable form. The "people" have a say so in how we are governed. If you want to see the difference between us and the rest of the world look at pre-war Iraq, Cuba, Venezuela, China, and other places. None of those places have the freedom or the voice that our people do in government.

Another thing is the PRIVILEGE of being born an American. Yes, I said PRIVILEGE. I had nothing to do with my birth. I didn't choose my parents, race, family members, or my country. God ordained those things long before I was born. He made me and ordained everything about my life. Therefore, I count it a privilege to be able to say that I am an American and I am humbled by the fact that God chose this time, place, and people for my heritage. I can't change any of these things and wouldn't if I could.

I must say that I was offended at first by some of the things that were posted by "traceydolls". I tend to get aggravated by people who appear to be racists. I don't know if she is a racist or isn't a racist, but the remarks she made about blacks and slavery and the generalizations she offered did offend me at first.

To Tracey I would say, Get over the past and move on. I am sorry for the racist feeling of some people. I am sorry for the way you and those of your race have been treated in the past and present. But you must realize that what happened more than a hundred years ago, or for that matter just yesterday, in this country, has little to do with what is going on now. It was, by the way, a WHITE president who took this country to war against itself to bring an end to slavery. I don't believe that Lincoln was happy about it. In fact he grieved over it greatly, but he knew it had to be done.

Those who are still hanging on to those feelings of anonymosity and prejudice, both black and white, are the ones at whom you should direct your comments not white America in general. Bigots abound in certain areas of the country, but thankfully they are decreasing in others.
They will, however, never fully disappear.

By the way, Tracey, I agree with most of the negatives which you expressed and I am ASHAMED of them just as you and all other Americans should be. Those things should have never happened in this country. However, as has been stated many times on this string, PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE and they are IMPERFECT.

The fact is that we are ALL sinners by NATURE and by CHOICE. We are born in sin because of our relationship to Adam and his disobedience. ( Read Romans 1-3 and following.) We do things that are wrong and shameful because we are predisposed by our nature to do so. Hence, slavery, abortion, murders, sexual predators, child abusers, bigots, and racists abound and always will until the Lord comes back.

America is a nation made up of PEOPLE from all over the world i.e. the great melting pot. We are a wonderful mix of all nations. This is what makes America up and it is what I love. I have many friends who are from different nations. My best friend in middle school was a black boy named Darell Graham. He helped me out of many scrapes and I helped him out of a few. I have never forgotten him.

I am most ashamed and saddened by the fact that America has FORGOTTEN GOD for the most part. We have removed him from our classrooms and tried in every way possible to force him from our public lives. And the crazy thing is that we have done it in the name of TOLERANCE and POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. We want to be so much like the rest of our worldly neighbors that we are willing to ACCEPT ANYTHING AND STAND UP FOR NOTHING in order to get along with them. In some areas, it seems that you can be anything but a Christian, pray to anyone but the God of the Bible, and end your prayer any way BUT in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. And why is that? Because some Muslim, JW, Hindu, Buddhist, or Atheist (all of which have the right to believe the way they choose) might get offended.

I had better stop while I am ahead, but know this. I have no problem with other religions except that I believe, based on the Scriptures, that they are deceived and believing a lie which was propagated by none other than the Devil himself. The lie that God was "holding out" on man by forbidding him to eat of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" and that man does not need God. It is from this lie and the utter depravity of man's own sinful heart that all of the evil in the world has come. Based on this lie they teach that the world is getting "better" and that man himself is "evolving". Based on this lie they teach that "all religions lead to eternal life and you can chose the one you want. It doesn't really matter". The truth is that man is not "evolving", he is instead "devolving". The world is not getting "better" it is in fact getting worse and worse all of the time, and Man NEEDS GOD more now than he ever did before.

I grieve for the souls of lost men regardless of their religion. I believe that some of them are very sincere in their beliefs. But, the fact still remains, religion or the lack thereof never saved anyone or sent one soul to hell. It is the refusal to accept God's truth concerning sin and the rejection of Jesus Christ as the ONLY Saviour which seals a persons doom to hell.
(John 14:6; Acts 4:12)

Though I consider it a PRIVILEGE to be an AMERICAN, I fear for our nation. Sin and forgetting God always brings judgment and that is what lies ahead. There are many good things about America, but they are dwindling. Political correctness and "tolerance" are robbing us of our right to proclaim the truth of God's word. America is becoming a place where, as I stated, you can be anything but a "CHRISTIAN" and for those of us who are, it is getting scary.

Am I going to quit preaching?NO! Am I going to fully grasp the principles of tolerance and PC and go with the flow? NO! I can not and be true to my Lord. Am I going to preach racism and religious bigotry? NO! I cannot and be true to my Lord who said that I should "love the Lord my God with all of my heart, with all my strength, and with all my mind" and "love my neighbor as myself." I will continue as always to preach the truth of God's word the Bible. If it offends, so be it. I will not back down or run from the fight as long as God gives me strength.

A famous Frenchmen, Alexis De Toqueville, said this, "America is great because America is good. If America ever ceases to be good, she will also cease to be great." The statement was made over 200 years ago. Sadly, I feel that it is coming true. Many things in our history, our present day life and our society as a whole, tell me that. Even though America has many good characteristics in her favor, she is "ceasing to be good" and doing it rapidly. By that I mean, she is loosing the things which have made her great. We are giving them up one by one. They are not being taken by force (yet), but we are giving them away to the vocal cries of a few (the homosexuals, pro-abortionists, liberals) who have taken the views of our liberal secular society to extremes.

Christians have allowed this process of losing our freedoms by sitting within the walls of our churches and saying nothing. We have allowed it by not voting. We have allowed it by buying into the PC and Tolerance messages of society and ignoring "thus saith the Lord" because it might offend someone. We have allowed it by giving in to the "fear of man" over the "fear of God".

Our ONLY hope is in a return to the God of our Forefathers, Confession of our sin, and true repentance. Otherwise the ONLY thing our future holds as a nation is a disastrous judgment from God.

Am I "proud" to be an American? No, I am "privileged" to be an American.Am I "proud" to be a Christian? No, I am "blessed" to be a child of God. Did I do anything to deserve either? NO, nothing at all. It is all by the grace and mercy of God ( Ephesians 2:8-9,10)

I love and pray for our nation to turn back to God before it is too late. I am thankful for all of the freedoms which we have. I am thankful beyond measure for those brave men and women who have given their lives to preserve our way of life and secure liberty for us and many others around the world.

II Chronicles 7:14 states:

"IF my people (Christians), which are called by my name, shall humble themselves (acknowledge their need of God) and PRAY and seek my face (personally focus on what God wants and Obedience to his word), and TURN from their wicked ways (repent = turn back to God and away from sin) THEN will I HEAR from Heaven, and will FORGIVE their sin, and I will HEAL their land."

Have we gone so far from God in America that even his children cannot hear his call? Sometimes I think so but I pray not.

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ORIGINAL: mamade45

Hi
I am new to this particular thread but have been lurking for a while. As a black American female I would like to just step in here and present a slightly different point of view than some of the the others. First off I for one AM very thankful to have been born in America. I believe that God allows us to be born where we are for a purpose and to glorify him. Sure there were some terrible things in our history like slavery and persecution of the native Americans. That cannot be denied but everywhere there are humans you will find sin. It is our job not to just moan and complain about all of the social ills and how "hell-bent" this country is but to reach out to our world with the message of hope in Jesus Christ, and we black folks are not exempt from the great commission just because of what has been done to us. Nor do we have the right to hold onto unforgiveness and bitterness. The Bible says in Philippians to think on the good things. I have lived in the inner city, later on the suburbs, and now my husband and I live in the country. I was born in the north and lived there for much of my life but have been in the deep south for nearly 20 years now. We are the only black family on our road but have never had any trouble with our neighbors. In fact these are some of the sweetest people One of the things my parents instilled in us was to expect the best from people because if you go into a neighborhood with a chip on your shoulder expecting to find trouble you will. Yes I know and have experienced racism and sexism in my life and even discrimination for being a christian but and I have lived below the poverty line (food stamps and all) and am now considered upper middle class. So I have been at all ends of the spectrum. Have even been homeless for a while when I was trying to get through college. I will never forget where I came from but what happens to us can either make us bitter or better. I thank God that our country abolished slavery (unlike many of the African countries where it still exists). I am thankful that I could go to school and make a living and did not have to belong to particular Caste group or family. I am thankful that as a woman I have the freedom to be an individual with rights and privileges and not someones'elses' property. Most of all I am thankful that I am in a country where (at least for now) the gospel is still freely preached and I was able to be saved and still able to lead others to Christ. Yes when our own brothers in Africa sold us into slavery, satan meant it for evil but God meant it for good. This was Joseph's mentality about being sold into slavery in Egypt by his brothers and the one I am choosing to adopt. Blessings.
Rochelle

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Just for the record I am happy and thankful to be an American. Yes my ancestors were brought here in chains but God took a bad situation and redeemed it for his glory just like with Joseph in Egypt and the children of Israel. I am free and forgiven and I am saved because someone had the freedom to preach the good news to me. Therefore I have to free and forgive others. In my mind it is not "us against them" but those of us in Christ are all one body and we need each other. We have got to be united in purpose or things will never change here.

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Because no other country in the world offers as much opportunity to as many.

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Because no other country in the world offers as much opportunity to as many.



Is that a fact or just pride talking?

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ORIGINAL: terryjohn

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Because no other country in the world offers as much opportunity to as many.

Is that a fact or just pride talking?

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ORIGINAL: terryjohn

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Because no other country in the world offers as much opportunity to as many.

Is that a fact or just pride talking?

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t will never cease to amaze me how much contempt some of the elite have for Christ/Christianity/Christians. Most of the press are murderers - they slander people - which is a form of murder and rationalize their sin too much to ever be honest.

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A famous Frenchmen, Alexis De Toqueville, said this, "America is great because America is good. If America ever ceases to be good, she will also cease to be great." The statement was made over 200 years ago. Sadly, I feel that it is coming true. Many things in our history, our present day life and our society as a whole, tell me that. Even though America has many good characteristics in her favor, she is "ceasing to be good" and doing it rapidly. By that I mean, she is loosing the things which have made her great. We are giving them up one by one. They are not being taken by force (yet), but we are giving them away to the vocal cries of a few (the homosexuals, pro-abortionists, liberals) who have taken the views of our liberal secular society to extremes.

Christians have allowed this process of losing our freedoms by sitting within the walls of our churches and saying nothing. We have allowed it by not voting. We have allowed it by buying into the PC and Tolerance messages of society and ignoring "thus saith the Lord" because it might offend someone. We have allowed it by giving in to the "fear of man" over the "fear of God".

Our ONLY hope is in a return to the God of our Forefathers, Confession of our sin, and true repentance. Otherwise the ONLY thing our future holds as a nation is a disastrous judgment from God.

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Thanks, 2Preacher, for your response to my post. I agree that the Christ-hating elite are dupes of the devil, but I think the word teaches that they are also our enemies. It is just that we are to love our enemies and pity them - which I do. I think you are a wee bit naive on this one. ][/quote


Maybe a little "young" but not NAIVE. I am fully aware that there are those within our government who would like nothing better than for "Christians" to be silenced once and for all. However, I stand by my word in that the real power behind those folks is none other than Satan himself. You might say that they are "our enemies" but he is "THE ENEMY" just to clarify the point.

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I also disagree with your application of the Chronicles verse to Christians.

I am fully aware that this verse is applicable in the context of God's promises to Israel and their land. However, I still stand by my word in applying it to Christians i.e. true believers.

I firmly believe that Believers hold the key to revival in America. It always starts with the Church. You cannot revive a dead thing. God can resurrect it, but you can not revive one who is dead. The two words, "resurrect" and "revive" are not synonymous.

Some churches in America are, for practical intents and purposes, nothing more than morgues. They have lost their first love and become steeped in traditions of men and the philosophies of this age. They are dead beyond hope.

Christians i.e. believers, have become "dull of hearing" toward the Spirit of God in many instances. Our lives have become so full of the world and its pleasures that we can barely hear the still small voice of God any more. Many are no different from the world around them and it would seem that they are "dead". Some truly are dead, never having tasted of the water of life in reality and they are in our churches.

But a true believer, no matter how far he has wandered away from God, can be brought back to his side. No matter how deep his spiritual slumber may be, he can be REVIVED and brought back to God.

To me the verse in Chronicles applies to those who are in this state of slumber because of compromise and worldliness i.e. the remnant if you will. Many call Jesus Lord, but very few truly know him. It is this "remnant" church that God is addressing. When I used the word "Christians" it is to these people that I was referring. There are many "tares" among the "wheat" these days and only God knows who they are.
But the true believers, in my opinion, are the ones with whom a return to God must start.

When we are willing to lay our petty differences aside along with our compromising and worldliness and return to God and his Word as our source and supply, America can be brought back to God. "Christians" are the "people of God" by faith. We are the "spiritual seed of Abraham" through faith in Christ (Galatians 3:6-29)

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I think a more accurate NT application of that verse in the OT and the principles laid out in it would be that if the people in the church would humble themselves and call on God and repent that He would heal the church - not the unbelievers in the countries they find themselves living in.

You're probably right. But it is through the church that revival and healing are brought to the Land as well. When God's people are in right standing with Him, they are unstoppable. Just look at the Apostles and the early church. The more the Romans tried to stop the spread of the Gospel, the more it spread until the Romans eventually capitulated and gave up persecution. Unfortunately, that is when the real problems began for the church. Instead of the church being in the world, the world was in the church.

My point in quoting II Chronicles like I did is that the Church needs to return to its roots. We need to quit compromising with the world and once again be the "church IN the world and not OF the world". When we do this, God will once again be pleased, the Glory will return, and sinners will once again be converted by the power of the Gospel.

My fear is that it may be too late. My hope and prayer is that it isn't.

I work with the elderly in a nursing home. I am a volunteer chaplain who holds services three times a month on Sunday afternoon. I have seen the power of the Gospel there in that home. During the four years, I have been going to this particular facility, I have seen four precious folks come to Christ. The oldest was 94 years old and an old line catholic. The most recent was a man 81 years old who accepted Christ on Father's day after the service.

Some people have said to me, why do you bother with those old folks? Aren't they set in their ways too much for God to reach them? Aren't their minds too far gone for them to understand? My answer is that "as long as there is life and breath, there is hope with God." He can do anything - and he does!!! Praise his Holy Name!!

Can he turn America back to himself? Can their be a true revival in our churches? Will he "hear" our prayers and "heal" our church? The answer is a resounding YES!! but we must be willing as his people to meet his requirements first and acknowledge our need of him.