Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (Full Version)

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Iesusestitheos -> Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 6:32:53 PM)

I come humbly asking for help.

I have a friend that is in prison as i type this thread. He asked my "Why does God allow us to suffer??" Guys help

I need Bible text for this answer. (as manny as possible)
Give your personal thought on each one if you'd like.

Thank you, and Maranatha.



earthless -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 6:41:44 PM)

The old mantra has been "why do bad things happen to good people?

When the real question should be, "why do good things happen to bad people?"

We live in a fallen world - sin/evil are real and we have the free-will to do or not to do things which can indeed bring us much pain and suffering, and to those around us.

Why is your friend in jail? Some people commit crimes and then whine and cry when they have to face the consequences of their actions.

In answering this question, the first thing to consider is whether such a thing as “the innocent” even exists.

According to the Bible, “the heart is wicked and deceitful above all things” (Jeremiah 17:9), and “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

Therefore, no one is innocent in the sense of being sinless - sin entered the world when Adam and Even rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden, and mankind has been in rebellion ever since. Sin’s effects permeate everything, and the suffering we see all around us is a direct result of that sin.

But God did not leave us here to suffer pointlessly - our loving and merciful God has a perfect plan to use that suffering to accomplish His threefold purpose.

Firstly, He uses pain and suffering to draw us to Himself so that we will cling to Him. Jesus said, “In the world you shall have tribulation” (John 16:33).

Trials and distress are not something unusual in life; they are part of what it means to be human in a fallen world.

In Christ we have an anchor that holds fast in all the storms of life, but if we never sail into those storms, how would we know that?

It is in times of despair and sorrow that we reach out to Him, and, if we are His children, we always find Him there waiting to comfort and uphold us through it all. In this way, He proves His faithfulness to us and ensures that we will stay close to Him. An added benefit is that as we experience God’s comfort through trials, we are then able to comfort others in the same way (2 Corinthians 1:4).

Second, He proves to us that our faith is real through the suffering and pain that are inevitable in this life.

How we respond to suffering is determined by the genuineness of our faith. Those with faith truly from God, “the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2), will not be crushed by suffering, but will come through the trial with their faith intact, having been “proven through fire” so that it “might be found to praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:7).

Those are the ones who do not shake their fists at God or question His goodness, but instead “count it all joy” (James 1:2), knowing that trials prove that they are truly the children of God. “Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him” (James 1:12).

Finally, God uses suffering to take our eyes off this world and put them on the next.

The Bible continually exhorts us to not get caught up in the things of this world, but to look forward to the world to come.

This world and all that is in it will pass away, but the kingdom of God is eternal. Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), and those who would follow Him must not see the things of this life, both good and bad, as the end of the story. Even the sufferings we endure and which seem so terrible “are not worthy to be compared with the coming glory to be revealed in us” (Romans 8:18).

Could God prevent all suffering? Of course.

But He assures us that “all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose” (Romans 8:28). So even suffering is part of the “all things” that God is using to accomplish His good purposes. His plan is perfect, His character is flawless, and those who trust Him will not be disappointed.

I recommend you read 'Disappointment with God' by Philip Yancey.



LCannon -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 6:44:04 PM)

Seven Suffers - Why do your people suffer personally, Lord? Here’s at least seven reasons:

1. Because of my personal neglect. Peter tells us there is no value in suffering which is caused by our own foolishness.
2. Taking a Stand for truth and righteousness. Peter, again, say, “But if you suffer for righteousness sake, happy are you: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled."
3. I suffer for Sin in my life. Since I have come into the “liberty of obedience” to Christ’s blood the refusal to deal with sin, personally, is an affront to that very blood that redeemed me. God must confront that attitude and he will judge me.
4. “Do not be deceived; God will not be mocked. Whatever a person sows, that crop must be harvested and consumed.” I suffer for my unwise choices.

A fifth reason can be for some higher Purpose of God which he doesn’t always reveal to me. I would like to think you have a high purpose, Lord but I still struggle with your providence.
6. Throughout history Christians have suffered for their Faith in Christ’s martyrdom. We are so tied to this existence that it seems like life itself but our citizenship is not of this world.

Finally but not exclusively, “For whom the Lord loves he chastens and scourges very son that he receives.” I suffer discipline as I am refined to conform more closely to your will.

Purge my walk with you, Lord.
----------------------------------------
Micah 7:3 reads: “Concerning evil, both hands do it well . . . But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the Lord . . . Do not rejoice over me, O my enemy. Though I fall I will rise; Though I dwell in darkness, the Lord is a light for me. I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against Him, until He pleads my case and executes justice for me. He will bring me out to the light and I will see His righteousness.

Who is a God like Thee, who pardons iniquity and passes over the rebellious acts of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in His unchanging love.”

Another is can be found in Romans 9:18-"So then, He has mercy on whom He desires and He hardens whom He desires based on our response to circumstance 19 yet we still whine when our circumstance isn’t what we think we deserve for disobedience; our own, on another’s part or just life experience, can be uncomfortable when we resist His will. 20 It’s selfish to assume life experience will proceed in our limited imagination 21 for a creator molds vessels designed for a specific use. 22 Some are designed to show even the Glory of God, some to be used and used up, to illuminate and make His Glory known in endurance with patience in wrath prepared for destruction. 23 He does so and makes the riches of His Glory vessels of His obedience which He prepared in advance for that very purpose. 24 This inheritance is universal for all men are born selfish and in need of salvation."



armydude -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 6:52:07 PM)

Why does God allow suffering? I don't know. We could argue the "why" and the "how" for a long time, but instead of that, I'd like to say this.


Whatever happens to me, I will trust Him. He takes care of me, and though I may not like what's happening, I know that He will see me through.



4IMPersuaded -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 7:03:50 PM)

Your concern for your friend in prison is clear and you are doing the right thing by continuing to love him through his encarceration.

The first three replys have offered you some excellent suggestions to answer this very difficult question. Suffering can do several things, but if your friend is a beleiver, remind him of two things.

He who began a good work in you is faithful to complete it-- God is faithful and fuflills his promises despite our shortcomings. Second, God disciplines those whom He calls His children. A way to look at the consequences we suffer as beleivers is to see them as an act of love by our Heavenly Father.

Here's the deal, though. Recently a Minneapolis, MN physician did a study through a local hospice that studies the perception of suffering in dying patients. It turns out that suffering has little to do with the pain the patients experiences, but it is a perceived state colored by the patient's attitude. Suffering is completely subjective. The best way to recallibrate an attitude is through gratitude. I would suggest that your friend begin a gratitude journal-- it may sound crazy at first, and perhaps all he might write would be something about having a place to lay his head. Over time, he will find that he is taking the focus off of himself and placing it where it belongs-- on God. Of course, I am assuming that your imprisoned friend is a child of God.

Blessings as you minister.



BibleL7 -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 8:29:15 PM)

How about an answer given by God Himself

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
Job 38:2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.
Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.
Job 38:5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone,
NKJV

or if you prefer the GNB puts it in a way more suitable for your question

Job 38:1 Then out of the storm the LORD spoke to Job.
Job 38:2 Who are you to question my wisdom with your ignorant, empty words?
Job 38:3 Now stand up straight and answer the questions I ask you.
Job 38:4 Were you there when I made the world? If you know so much, tell me about it.
Job 38:5 Who decided how large it would be? Who stretched the measuring line over it? Do you know all the answers?
GNB


This is just the first part of how The LORD answered Job when Job complained and asked why he had suffered. Tell your friend he can read to book of Job himself and read the LORDs full answer. NOTE verse 2



SonInMe1 -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 9:19:41 PM)

Deuteronomy 28:1-14

If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth.
28:2
All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:
28:3
You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
28:4
The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock--the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
28:5
Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.
28:6
You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.
28:7
The Lord will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven.
28:8
The Lord will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The Lord your God will bless you in the land he is giving you.
28:9
The Lord will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the Lord your God and walk in his ways.
28:10
Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they will fear you.
28:11
The Lord will grant you abundant prosperity--in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground--in the land he swore to your forefathers to give you.
28:12
The Lord will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none.
28:13
The Lord will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the Lord your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom.
28:14
Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.

Kinda seems like obediance is important. Oh, and God knows us well, the next 50 some verses are about the curses that come through disobedience.



bob97 -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 9:36:48 PM)

I can tell you for a fact...if you trust in the LORD and turn your problems to Him...you will not suffer...you will find peace and glory. You will find you are loved and even though your condition is fatal the experience will have been worth while.

It is all a lesson in the grace and glory of God.

On the other hand if you try to control the problem your self and cannot find it in your heart to completely trust in God...then you will suffer.

My wife and I have been down that road and I'll just say...no matter what happens in the future the experience has been a blessing.

Bob



whisperingwaters -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/24/2008 10:29:02 PM)

Matthew 5: 45 (The Webster Bible)
That ye may be the children of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.



lmarchal -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 12:06:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

Matthew 5: 45 (The Webster Bible)
That ye may be the children of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.




Philippians 4:4-13 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Be anxious for nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which you have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me has flourished again; in which you were also concerned, but you lacked opportunity. Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: everywhere and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.



OneJohn410 -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 12:46:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iesusestitheos

I come humbly asking for help.

I have a friend that is in prison as i type this thread. He asked my "Why does God allow us to suffer??" Guys help

I need Bible text for this answer. (as manny as possible)
Give your personal thought on each one if you'd like.

Thank you, and Maranatha.


The posts to your request have been wonderful. Are you visiting a new believer through the ministry of a prison ministry? I hope your next visit goes well with him. Understanding why God allows what He allows outside of knowledge from His Word, with no backing by it, has nothing to stand on. Your wanting to share scripture with him is the way to answer such questions.

OneJohn410



SpongeBlog -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 10:03:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iesusestitheos

I come humbly asking for help.

I have a friend that is in prison as i type this thread. He asked my "Why does God allow us to suffer??" Guys help

I need Bible text for this answer. (as manny as possible)
Give your personal thought on each one if you'd like.

Thank you, and Maranatha.

God's plan for all of us is to transform us into the image of His son as seen in the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23). No matter how good or bad we have been, the suffering that results disciplines us (forces us) to focus on responding to that suffering in the character of Christ (the fruit of the Spirit). Without lack and suffering there would be no opportunity to be conformed to the image of Christ. You probably won't catch me purposely signing up for any suffering, but this is the Bible truth.

"...we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope." (Romans 5:3-4)


Suffering is designed to draw us near to God and into the freedom and spacious abundance that comes with the obedience of godly character (the way Jesus said is the way to enjoy all He has).

"But those who suffer he delivers in their suffering; he speaks to them in their affliction. He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food. But now you are laden with the judgment due the wicked; judgment and justice have taken hold of you." (Job 36:15-17)

"For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." (Romans 8:20-21)

"God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. (Heb. 12:10-11)



As 4IMPersuaded has shared, it's the condition of our hearts as we lay hold of the promise of God's transforming power, and the comfort He gives, and our later redemption as sons that makes suffering bearable.

"A man's spirit sustains him in sickness, but a crushed spirit who can bear? (Proverbs 18:14)


Walking in Godly character with gratitude and thankfulness is the life and freedom God promises to those who are changed by their sufferings. The whole idea is to make us like Jesus. Hot furnaces of affliction are for refining precious metals and removing it's impurities.

"The crucible is for silver and the furnace for gold..." (Proverbs 27:21)



Bridgitt -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 10:08:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

Seven Suffers - Why do your people suffer personally, Lord? Here’s at least seven reasons:

1. Because of my personal neglect. Peter tells us there is no value in suffering which is caused by our own foolishness.
2. Taking a Stand for truth and righteousness. Peter, again, say, “But if you suffer for righteousness sake, happy are you: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled."
3. I suffer for Sin in my life. Since I have come into the “liberty of obedience” to Christ’s blood the refusal to deal with sin, personally, is an affront to that very blood that redeemed me. God must confront that attitude and he will judge me.
4. “Do not be deceived; God will not be mocked. Whatever a person sows, that crop must be harvested and consumed.” I suffer for my unwise choices.

A fifth reason can be for some higher Purpose of God which he doesn’t always reveal to me. I would like to think you have a high purpose, Lord but I still struggle with your providence.
6. Throughout history Christians have suffered for their Faith in Christ’s martyrdom. We are so tied to this existence that it seems like life itself but our citizenship is not of this world.

Finally but not exclusively, “For whom the Lord loves he chastens and scourges very son that he receives.” I suffer discipline as I am refined to conform more closely to your will.



ITA! [sm=thumbsup.gif]



terryjohn -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 3:57:53 PM)

Why does God allow us to suffer or more importantly, why doesn't God put an end to our suffering much like we do to animals that are suffering? The reality is the only way to put an end to it is to put an end to its cause men! Now God's and our long suffering brings many to a saving knowledge of God's grace and as such we cry His grace is sufficient for me. In fact, although we may cry in faith, come Lord come, we are mindful that our present sufferings cannot to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed in us.

Do not ask God to put an end to suffering/evil for on that day it shall not be one of rejoicing but of death and destruction.



Roberta_ -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALLOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 4:46:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iesusestitheos

I come humbly asking for help.

I have a friend that is in prison as i type this thread. He asked my "Why does God allow us to suffer??" Guys help

I need Bible text for this answer. (as manny as possible)
Give your personal thought on each one if you'd like.

Thank you, and Maranatha.


I'm learning to rephrase that question to "Why do I allow myself to suffer when God has so much to offer me?"

There is no doubt that bad things happen to innocent people (child abuse, rape, etc..) However, the continuation to suffer or get better is usually our choice.



jbow -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 5:16:18 PM)

quote:

The old mantra has been "why do bad things happen to good people?

When the real question should be, "why do good things happen to bad people?"


That is the truth!!!

We deserve immediate judgement. the bad things that happen to us are actually God showing mercy on us. We deserve death, there are none who do good, no not one.

There are no good people. God show's mercy.

God is in control of every molecule in creation. He is either omniscient or He is not God. All things happen according to His plan, or He is not God. There is great comfort in this. the idea that He may not be in control of everything in our lives is a terrifying thought and is a lie.

Here is a chapter from a re-released book, (it has been out of print). I read it this morning and ordered a copy. It speak's directly to this question.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/adversity.html

The book is here: http://www.monergismbooks.com/When-Grace-Comes-Home-How-the-Doctrines-of-Grace-Change-Your-Life-p-17593.html

J



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 7:39:55 PM)

I think there is 2 sides to this coin,

first for the believer, I think He allows us to suffer to grow our faith and to teach us to lean on Him.

for non believers, I think He lets them suffer, hoping that through that suffering they will seek Him, and learn that they need Him. I know that is what happened to me. It was through all of my failure and pain that I saw the need to be closer to God.



Concerto -> RE: Why? WHY DOES GOD ALlOW US TO SUFFER??? (6/25/2008 9:10:57 PM)

Some very good responses.

We suffer because:

1. We live in a fallen world.

2. We, even as believers, sin..as a result, we suffer from the consequences of our sin.

3. God allows bad things to come to build us up and mature us.

4. We don't know. Sometimes, we just don't know why bad stuff is thrust upon us.

C



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